crafting is gone

Good riddance to all this hellish bloatware.
Crafting is not supposed to be so confusing and overcomplicated after all.
It's not like gils are that important in this game to make crafting artifically hard to separate the hardcore grinders with the casuals.
The need of 5-6 skills bars was insane.
Most of the skills were pretty similar.

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In any given craft I probably used 10 abilities. But I had 40. So yeah... some streamlining isn't totally out of the question.

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Ehh, I'm regularly surprised at what skills I still use, even if its very situational.


Theres relatively few skills that are just obsoleted by a new version, and thats thanks to Delicate Synth and Prep touch being actually good.

We have stuff like Rapid Synth 3 which is only good for housing items, basically, and is worse than ObsFoc for efficiency or Delicate. Or Careful Synth 2 and 3, which both get some use (and 2 is better the more geared you are, because its 0cp cost and you're only ever pressing these buttons once wih the exception of one specific macro for normal quality subcombines, and the first use can be replaced by any other synth options you feel like using).


Even stuff like Ingenuity 1 vs Ingenuity 2, ingen 1 is still used because the difference between them is insignificant in many cases, but 8 cp is not. Anything thats not a * recipe has no difference between the two in practice.

Manip and Manip 2 are effectively the same button, but 1 is more usable on 35/40 durability crafts, and 2 is for 70/80 dura.

The only thing that regularly gets phased out completely are older Touch actions and basic synth actions, because their upgrades are more powerful. The further versions of other skills are more like Fire and fire 2 than they are actual upgrades.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Good. Crafting could use some streamlining.

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some but that doesn't mean butcher it either. We'll see what really changes. I enjoyed the crafting, it was more involved but like all things in this game, they will just dumb it all down and full homogenization.

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

some but that doesn't mean butcher it either. We'll see what really changes. I enjoyed the crafting, it was more involved but like all things in this game, they will just dumb it all down and full homogenization.

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How can you Butcher Crafting by making it Simpler and Easier?

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

How can you Butcher Crafting by making it Simpler and Easier?

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For earlier levels, crafting remaining easy and simple is fine. Making crafting at endgame easier, though? Absolutely unacceptable, unnecessary, and makes no logical sense. It’s called “endgame” for a reason. To test what you know and have been through.

But there’s no reason to worry, they have said in the previous Digest that they’ve noticed it’s far too easy to HQ recipes and that they’ll be making balanced changes. I assume they are removing a little over 60% of the actions and renaming/revamping them to be more easier to understand. But in the process, making more difficult recipes, so hardcore crafters can be a little more recognized for their efforts.

Either way, they’re focusing on newer crafters AND hardcore/vet crafters throughout 5.1 - 5.2, so we all get what we want. I’m hoping to see what nerfs they made to prudent touch and delicate synthesis, since those moves are too overpowered.

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Originally Posted by Oichi

"We believe there are a lot of players that have leveld and geared their crafters/gatherers, but have no idea on what they are doing "Someone please give me a macro" and that is okay of course, but we simplified it so more people might be able to enjoy and understand crafting/gathering better"

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Man YoshiP why you gotta call me out on that.

But in all seriousness, I'm glad they're doing this.

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Originally Posted by Noitems

The fact these adjustments are happening at the same time Ishgard Restoration is pretty much them trying to make it easy as possible for people to contribute.

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from the way they explained it in the LL it does seem like the progress steps will need a pretty high number of people participating ("think of fates for crafters that last x hours were some 300 people can contribute", and failing would mean that "there weren't enough"), especially if there is something like a limit of how many turn-ins a single person can contribute. So it defenitely makes sense for them to streamline crafting in hopes of making it more appealing.

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Originally Posted by Destati

Man YoshiP why you gotta call me out on that.
But in all seriousness, I'm glad they're doing this.

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hah, same here. I only really levelled up my crafters & gatherers as a means to save gil on things like glamour gear or housing furniture which just have to be NQ "brute forced". Besides that and the easy weekly custom deliveries I have absolutely no idea how to use about 2/3 of crafting skills.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Interested to see how prudent touch and delicate synthesis got nerfed, those two moves absolutely ruined endgame crafting. Because they did mention it was too easy to HQ recipes in the digest. I’m actually excited. :)

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They probably aren't getting nerfed at all. From the sounds of things, SE is going create more difficult recipes that have higher craftsmanship/control requirements instead of nerfing the actions that are used in general crafting.

If there's going to be a change to actions, I would expect it to happen with the Specialist actions to give specialists an actual advantage in crafting the more difficult recipes. Right now, being a specialist is almost useless outside of the handful of crafts where specialist is a random requirement as a condition for crafting.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

Good riddance to all this hellish bloatware.
Crafting is not supposed to be so confusing and overcomplicated after all.
It's not like gils are that important in this game to make crafting artifically hard to separate the hardcore grinders with the casuals.
The need of 5-6 skills bars was insane.
Most of the skills were pretty similar.

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But crafting ISNT confusing or complicated. Problem is people don't read and newcomers just want to plow to max level skipping all the learning crafters did along the way. (especially NOW after the window revamp, you can literally math your way to HQ)

Who are you to tell someone what is important to them in game? How is gil not important? Just because YOU don't care about gil doesn't mean someone else doesn't. Aside from that gil does not and has not EVER added artificial difficulty to crafting. (Well if you're lazy it can) (i.e. don't farm your own mats)

5-6 skill bars is quite an exaggeration, 3-4 FULL bars for crafting skills , anything else and it's self infliction.(and that's including specialist)

aside from all of that, I agree there is no need for 8 precise touches etc. (1 per job) so a lot CAN be slimmed down for that reason alone. However, the rest of the stuff you say is meh

I just wish during the "crafting revamp" they had finally pulled the plug on shards/crystals/clusters.

They effectively serve no purpose except creating a price floor that people ignore. They are also a major revenue generator for RMT bots.

Yoshi acknowledged that Weaver crystal requirements were out of whack and did nothing to aleviate the issue.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I just wish during the "crafting revamp" they had finally pulled the plug on shards/crystals/clusters.

They effectively serve no purpose except creating a price floor that people ignore. They are also a major revenue generator for RMT bots.

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They were another closet monster from 1.0 that wasn't put in to 2.0 and onward. The original catalyst system was also crafted (all the fine sand you get from desynth,) that was shard ingredients, used by Alchemists to make shards that could then be made in to crystals that could then be made in to clusters and back again. Go to the market board. Lightning and Wind crystals sell for 100+ Gil each, Lightning and Wind Clusters go for 5 Gil each. That never would have happened in the original system as a cluster was crystals, you just needed an Alchemist to reduce them.

In 2.0 and on, it would make more sense to put those recipes in the Other tab and allow specific classes to create and reduce according to the ones they use, at levels, over just giving it all to Alchemist but either way it would pull the rug out from under catalyst markets. Because yea, I agree with you. 99% of the time, if I am not crafting it isn't material I am short on, it's crystals and I am waiting for my retainers to bulk the numbers back up again.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I just wish during the "crafting revamp" they had finally pulled the plug on shards/crystals/clusters.

They effectively serve no purpose except creating a price floor that people ignore. They are also a major revenue generator for RMT bots.

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I would love to see the end of shards/crystals/clusters. It's a bad system that exists only to be a relic of 1.0 and a callback to FFXI.

Most of the crafting abilities on his bar have been deleted. They look weird because that's the symbol for "no longer there". People are upset because they were hoping that crafting would get even more complex so that it would discourage others from doing it. The fewer people who craft the more profitable it will be for those that do it. That's why they are complaining. But the truth is that it was never complicated. Crafting has always been easier than combat in this game. There were some who were campaigning for the end to macros and more complexity so that people who were crafters would quit. A lot of crafters honestly feel that having a lot of crafters just ruins their whole day. I've never heard people say that there are too many people doing Savage content- that their whole experience is ruined because deep down, they know that other people are doing it too, but you'll see that all the time about crafting.

Nothing about crafting is hard or has ever been hard. Know what macros do for me? They make it so that I don't have to push 15 buttons. Does it mean that I wouldn't know what buttons to push? No. I'm not a two-year old. Crafting isn't hard. All I have to do is read all of my abilities. Each one comes with a text-box that tells me what it does. A child can craft without using macros, but people are still crying about macros making crafting too easy. I don't get it. I don't even use macros in any of my crafting jobs until they reach level 70. I still have 2 jobs that are 50 and 56. I'm nearly there, but I didn't get where I am because of macros. Macros make such a small difference in my game play that I honestly wouldn't miss them if they did go away- I just don't like the reasoning that I see given from those that want them gone.

Crafting isn't difficult. It is, however, very tedious. It's filled with complexity for the sake of complexity, and I wouldn't miss most of those buttons if they were gone.

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The need of 5-6 skills bars was insane.

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Who uses that many bars? I've never been above 4, including macros, which is about the same as any other class in the game.

I switched class to a DRG recently that I hadn't played in years and most of my skills were greyed out. Confirmed, DRG being removed from the game.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I switched class to a DRG recently that I hadn't played in years and most of my skills were greyed out. Confirmed, DRG being removed from the game.

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I blame Titan.

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Originally Posted by Nomuno

But crafting ISNT confusing or complicated. Problem is people don't read and newcomers just want to plow to max level skipping all the learning crafters did along the way. (especially NOW after the window revamp, you can literally math your way to HQ)

Who are you to tell someone what is important to them in game? How is gil not important? Just because YOU don't care about gil doesn't mean someone else doesn't. Aside from that gil does not and has not EVER added artificial difficulty to crafting. (Well if you're lazy it can) (i.e. don't farm your own mats)

5-6 skill bars is quite an exaggeration, 3-4 FULL bars for crafting skills , anything else and it's self infliction.(and that's including specialist)

aside from all of that, I agree there is no need for 8 precise touches etc. (1 per job) so a lot CAN be slimmed down for that reason alone. However, the rest of the stuff you say is meh

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I don't think I need to tell you who I am since there is a name above my forum profile pic.

Crafting was super bloated and it was about time to trim down all the excess garbage skills it got over the years.
Just because you set up your macros doesn't mean that crafting isn't too much complicated.
It makes zero sense to have all this bloatware.
In game currency is not that important in this game like they are in other MMORPGs. Unless you want cosmetics that is.
Either way they are cutting down all the crapware and I'm quite happy about it.

Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Destati

Man YoshiP why you gotta call me out on that.

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You should put in a report. xD
Yoshi telling you how you should be crafting.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

I don't think I need to tell you who I am since there is a name above my forum profile pic.

Crafting was super bloated and it was about time to trim down all the excess garbage skills it got over the years.
Just because you set up your macros doesn't mean that crafting isn't too much complicated.
It makes zero sense to have all this bloatware.
In game currency is not that important in this game like they are in other MMORPGs. Unless you want cosmetics that is.
Either way they are cutting down all the crapware and I'm quite happy about it.

Please look forward to it.

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No need to sound condescending over someone’s opinion, lol. Just because you harbor disdain and slight hatred for people who took advantage of crafting and/or were hardcore at it, doesn’t mean it was confusing or bad like you say it was. Now, if you’re talking about 2.x and 3.x, then yes, that was when everything was pretty tricky. But now? Pretty simplistic.

You are using the term “bloat” a bit too much, they are simply removing skills that hardly any endgame crafters use, and simplifying them for newer crafters, along with possible adjustments to overpowered moves like prudent touch and delicate synthesis. (Probably will increase amount of CP used or reduce success rate.) Also, Gil is pretty important for people who like to create fun prizes and raffles for their FC, overall making the game a fun place, buying mats, houses, etc....so no.

I’m actually really excited about this patch. It’s really about time they catered to both casual and hardcore crafters. It’s been too long.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

I don't think I need to tell you who I am since there is a name above my forum profile pic.

Crafting was super bloated and it was about time to trim down all the excess garbage skills it got over the years.
Just because you set up your macros doesn't mean that crafting isn't too much complicated.
It makes zero sense to have all this bloatware.
In game currency is not that important in this game like they are in other MMORPGs. Unless you want cosmetics that is.
Either way they are cutting down all the crapware and I'm quite happy about it.

Please look forward to it.

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1st, I agreed with trimming bloat, read past your ego

2nd who cares who you are? I don't know who, and I don't care who. Tossing your name around like it's supposed to mean something or have any weight in an argument tells me enough.

I agree that gil has somewhat less of a value than other mmo's. But your statement about gil adding artificial difficulty to crafting was bad. Cosmetic things are half of all MMO's these days, so the value is still their just in that alone.


funny thing about all this is, I love that they made crafting even more easy with the last patch, and now this one. So you are literally trying to argue with me about something we both like lul

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I agree that gil has somewhat less of a value than other mmo's.

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It really doesnt.

We actually use Gil as a currency in 14. Many other MMO's use items valued at significant amounts of their in-game currency as the unit of trading for anything approaching high end stuff, because its literally impossible to trade that much currency in a transaction.

When we start using black dye, ectoplasm, fiend sap, or 1 month of game time as the standard currency value instead of giving things a gil value, we'll be there. If I'm not selling top-end crafted gear for 5 fiend saps, or housing items for increments of general-purpose jet black dye, our currency is fine.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Looking at what is not greyed out give a few hints on things.

Inner Quiet, Great Strides, Basic Synthesis, Basic Touch, Standard Touch, Careful Synthesis, Observe, Master's Mend, and Precise Touch are not greyed out. Careful Synthesis has a CP cost like Careful Synthesis 3.

Looks like Basic/Standard/Advanced Synthesis have been merged into one action and Careful Synthesis I, II and III have been merged into one low CP action.

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I'd like to see:
- Eliminate anything that does the same thing, but only to different degrees.
- Remove cross-class skills. and recipe requirements entirely. If I'm doing ARM stuff, I shouldn't need WVR products, unless I can buy only what I need from the MB, not a stack of 99, only to use 5, then resell the rest at a loss.
- Drop all crystal variants, or just reduce it to one.
- And, no demimateria. It's enough work just to level the crafts, and not have to do it for this again.

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- Eliminate anything that does the same thing, but only to different degrees.

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Yeeaaaah, no. That makes Crafting look like this:

https://i.gyazo.com/92d1a28f90366957...393533b2fa.png


Thats less than "I just picked this up" level 60 dps classes.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Yeeaaaah, no. That makes Crafting look like this:

https://i.gyazo.com/92d1a28f90366957...393533b2fa.png


Thats less than "I just picked this up" level 60 dps classes.

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As long as they actually make these recipes difficult (they said they would, anyways) whether it be making them not 100% guaranteed to HQ or, making this new revamp involve SKILL somehow, I’m all for it. I haven’t been this excited for FFXIV since 3.x.

Can't wait for the new crafting!
I tried getting into it as a new player and was too confused and felt like a burden more than something fun.
Hopefully it gets better now!

Am happy that crafters n gatherers get finally reworked, all of them are overflowing with tons of obsolete useless skills n traits, it is not funny anymore.

Cross class garbage has to disappear
Tons of useless traits need to get consolidated.
Fishing needs a complete redesign, its just pure rng grind that has nothing to do with player skills, if it want hyperrealsm through rng grind as simulation, I"d play fishing in RL
Fishing older stuff has to become easier as you progress
SP/CP has to be replaced with just AP for both ( Activity Points)
The Fishing Log needs a complete rework to offer players much more info about all the fishes in alot better detail
Bait has to be reworke and should be all putable into a sub container bait box, to redecu the bait bloat to just 1 single neccessary quest item, that contains all ofyour baits

Based on how the classes will end up with 5.1 will I definetely post my feedback with reconception ideas, unless SE nails the reiterations so hard, that I'll be left with absolutely no wishes being anymore open

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

Am happy that crafters n gatherers get finally reworked, all of them are overflowing with tons of obsolete useless skills n traits, it is not funny anymore.

Cross class garbage has to disappear
Tons of useless traits need to get consolidated.
Fishing needs a complete redesign, its just pure rng grind that has nothing to do with player skills, if it want hyperrealsm through rng grind as simulation, I"d play fishing in RL
Fishing older stuff has to become easier as you progress
SP/CP has to be replaced with just AP for both ( Activity Points)
The Fishing Log needs a complete rework to offer players much more info about all the fishes in alot better detail
Bait has to be reworke and should be all putable into a sub container bait box, to redecu the bait bloat to just 1 single neccessary quest item, that contains all ofyour baits

Based on how the classes will end up with 5.1 will I definetely post my feedback with reconception ideas, unless SE nails the reiterations so hard, that I'll be left with absolutely no wishes being anymore open

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no ty on your conceptions. not a fan

huh consolidate traits o.O?

I am fine with crafting as it is now, but I am also fine with streamlining it a bit and consolidating redundant skills (such as skills that are strictly better.)

What I would really like to see though are quality of life/user interface changes such as allowing you to spec out an entire crafting tree including raw and intermediate materials. As it is now, crafting an item from base materials is kind of clunky and seems to require opening and closing a bunch of windows. Apparently some other mmos such as guild wars have a more convenient user interface.

Also it isn’t a huge deal but I kind of like how FFXI allowed crystal splitting and consolidation (though I think you had to level alchemy for that.) I am not sure what kind of effect doing so might have on low level or high level crystal gathering though.

Crafting has been nothing but a bloated mess. Not to mention, not even being able to just 'pull' materials from retainers/chests without actually taking items out. It should not be required to pull 2394^112 of materials to level two classes and fill up your inventory just to make a robe. It's ridiculous. Even some of the older, craptastic games have a better system in place. So, I welcome any changes they make. It has to be better than what's in place now.

If they make crafting easy for casuals to get into I might actually try leveling a craft when the ishgard restoration stuff comes. Not interested in making gil or anything just a single craft to do content would be enough. Might choose black smithing since I wanna play with a hammer.

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Originally Posted by Greyhawk

Crafting has been nothing but a bloated mess. Not to mention, not even being able to just 'pull' materials from retainers/chests without actually taking items out. It should not be required to pull 2394^112 of materials to level two classes and fill up your inventory just to make a robe. It's ridiculous. Even some of the older, craptastic games have a better system in place. So, I welcome any changes they make. It has to be better than what's in place now.

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Even ESO (a game I loathe) has a WAY better crafting system. And your materials pull right from your bank.

With multi stage crafts you can end up pulling 18 different base materials out of storage even if the recipe you are working on only has 6 ingredients - it would be nice if you could use them directly, though the current retainer system seems to disable selling items while you have access to a retainer’s inventory, so they would need to fix that first probably.

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Originally Posted by NotSuzyHomemaker

Even ESO (a game I loathe) has a WAY better crafting system. And your materials pull right from your bank.

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That would definitely be nice to have.

Like all of those greyed out ones are cross class abilities, and cross class is getting the axe.

Go figure.

So much hate about crafting in this thread -_-

Another thread saying XXXX is death/gone? Forums never change.

Let's be real. Craft jobs had way too much skills, and you use only like 10-15 or so. It is about time a clean in skills list. Also, I think those are just cross class skills, that they will remove (at last). So I expect a clean up of craft skills and reduce the list. There is way too much of them, mostly useless in end game crafting.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

So much hate about crafting in this thread -_-

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The issue for a lot of people is how skill bloated it is and how it basically requires macros in order to get HQ reliably at end game. It's well past due for an overhaul and with the cross class going away it might get people to level a crafter for the beast tribe rewards at least or at minimum make it less intimidating for newer players.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

For earlier levels, crafting remaining easy and simple is fine. Making crafting at endgame easier, though? Absolutely unacceptable, unnecessary, and makes no logical sense. It’s called “endgame” for a reason. To test what you know and have been through.

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(Late Reply)

So...its not being Butchered then. Nothing bad is happening to Crafting, people just dont like its being made easier because it eliminates some self Gratification?
Ive done crafting, unless it SERIOUSLY changes in Specialization (My highest is lv 30-ish on GSM) I dont see what exactly your applying to High Level "Endgame" crafting.

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

The issue for a lot of people is how skill bloated it is and how it basically requires macros in order to get HQ reliably at end game. It's well past due for an overhaul and with the cross class going away it might get people to level a crafter for the beast tribe rewards at least or at minimum make it less intimidating for newer players.

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Yeah. I've always thought that crafting was just complex for the sake of being complex. Personally, I don't really like that, but I understand that others do. I'm glad that they are making all these changes though.