Why I look forward to Limited jobs

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think you're confusing different levels of terminology there. Blue mage is a Disciple of Magic [limited job] as opposed to a Disciple of Magic [job].

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I'm aware that it is technically a caster DPS with caster role skills, I'm saying it shouldn't be labeled as such. Especially if they have plans down the line to add more jobs like this. Consolidating them under a different name would make more sense and would clear up some confusion when playing as these jobs.

Elective Jobs Auryan would this term work

Some people simply want to fight against their own best interests, OP is a prime example.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

first I find this ideal a good ideal. for many reason. let suppose SE introduce beast master this mean we tame beast. let suppose they add feature of let us keep are pets. this mean we train are pets.

limit jobs should have ability work together in dungeons, because well they limited jobs. players can have combat jobs that aren't tied to raids and dungeon system were players feel rush to get the job to lvl 70. these jobs can have more detail focus system. such as ability to keep your pet and lvling raise them up. the devs can get more creative with the limited jobs through their should negative the dungeon/raid jobs. SE can test more stuff in the limited jobs and see what they apply to the not limited jobs use what they learned for the limited jobs.

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You're like the very tiny, minuscule minority here then lol.
BLU is probably the least used amount of content and if
it was taken away, I'm sure no one would care because it's terrible.
I'm sad they are even continuing to add more stuff to this job instead of deleting it and starting over.
IMO, they can make it a mage, with some way of making monster attacks
flow with the core combat. It really doesn't have to be 100% like other Final Fantasy's...

Wouldn't you just be happier if you could run BST with the rest of us in dungeons and raids
and not this boring crap like BLU? I'm very disappointed in BLU's release and
I don't even like BLU in any FF's. I just feel bad for everyone who wanted this job and turned into dookie lol.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Wouldn't you just be happier if you could run BST with the rest of us in dungeons and raids

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I'm pretty sure you would eat those words the first time you'd be kicked from a Extreme Primal because you don't have that super duper rare pet that requires you to clear savage 4.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

I just feel bad for everyone who wanted this job and turned into dookie lol.

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Problem is, the collection process of BLU makes it too much unpredictable in random groups, and if you remove that to better fit into the game, then you're simply not a Blue Mage, so what would even be the point of putting it into the game ?

I look forward to limited jobs/updates to them in the same way I look forward to say GS updates. A neat side activity but nothing major. That's ultimately what blue mage is. A neat little side activity.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Problem is, the collection process of BLU makes it too much unpredictable in random groups, and if you remove that to better fit into the game, then you're simply not a Blue Mage, so what would even be the point of putting it into the game ?

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I don't think that's a fact. I mean you're free to have it as an opinion, and maybe that's all you meant when saying it, but I read that as if you were saying it was a fact and I'd have to say I don't think so (opinion? I'm arguing for fact but yeeh... lol). They could have had you learn 20 or so spells in the field, certainly it would be different than leveling up a job normally but it wouldn't prevent blue mage from performing and behaving like a blue would be expected. And to that they could join groups with incomplete spells, I'd say we see that sometimes already (people on their classes/didn't do job quests), and people want to put things in the way to stop that too.. which you could do for blue mage as well, there is nothing in the core of blue mage that says "I get to join parties incomplete, else I'm not a blue mage" lol.

The idea you can set up different kits of spells isn't really a core blue mage concept, mostly just a FFXI thing and a lot of it comes from the passive trait concept. "In ffxi you had to learn the spells via scrolls, it's not a black mage unless I can skip a spell cause I didn't pay for it". Not saying that's your argument but preemptively saying that kit choices isn't a hardcore blue mage concept (like how SMN has been a WHM/BLM/Materia, only core part of SMN is summoning and everything else is vaguely in the air). The list of spells also isn't typically "all the skills you see monsters use", so its not like if blue mage doesn't have 100 abilities he's a failure (many of the FF games have blue mage with ~20 or less, a number other mages have competed up to before). Only hard core blue mage concept is simply learning monster spells which you do not need to kick blue mage out of a balanced DF environment to do that last bit. It's just easier to do so lol. Concept of kit may be fun, just saying it's not a requirement to make it a blue mage (currently kit concept is a bit dead, but maybe after a bunch of level increases it becomes a thing).

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I'm pretty sure you would eat those words the first time you'd be kicked from a Extreme Primal because you don't have that super duper rare pet that requires you to clear savage 4.

Problem is, the collection process of BLU makes it too much unpredictable in random groups, and if you remove that to better fit into the game, then you're simply not a Blue Mage, so what would even be the point of putting it into the game ?

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To qualify as a BLU it literally just needs to use skills that monsters use that players generally can't, learnt through typically traditional means. If all of BLU's rotational skills were from the overworld/ normal mode instances with 100% learn rate upon seeing it once then it would still be BLU, if someones gonna turn up at level 80 having learned 2 skills theyre getting the boot if its a system as easy as I layed it out, but even then you have people turning up already in level 80 content who press like 2 buttons and expect a carry, how would BLU skills be any different

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I'm pretty sure you would eat those words the first time you'd be kicked from a Extreme Primal because you don't have that super duper rare pet that requires you to clear savage 4.

Problem is, the collection process of BLU makes it too much unpredictable in random groups, and if you remove that to better fit into the game, then you're simply not a Blue Mage, so what would even be the point of putting it into the game ?

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Then, I have a very simple solution to propose to you - make them normal jobs. BADA BING BADA BOOM! Problem solved! This limited job malarky needs to die in a fire.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I'm pretty sure you would eat those words the first time you'd be kicked from a Extreme Primal because you don't have that super duper rare pet that requires you to clear savage 4.

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That's if they turn around and use the BLU system which is what we don't want.
Beast Tamer would probably work akin to SMN probably.
Have a mini pet, and then able to call out a special one for a limited time, like Bahamut and Phoenix.
Who wouldn't want to have a psuedo-Daigoro?! Or maybe a Paissa LOL. :eek:

I just think all the jobs people want need to be worked
into the game as a normal job or it'll be a massive waste of resources.
I'm always pro-options but this fell flat and should never be done again
because this is what we're facing right now:
https://i.gyazo.com/abaf073406ea391f...c5b3108fd8.png

I feel like RUN, PUP, BST are limited job candidates, because they may have no creative purpose for such jobs. Limited jobs to them may be "We do not know what to do with this one, lets just make it function independently so don't have to balance it."

Gonna take some heat for this, but SMN, IMO, was a true limited job candidate if done right. SMN on its' own could summon Primals that are true to size, and the lore behind SMN, being a job whom utilizes some of the most powerful creatures.

Ironically, I feel like it may have been worst as a limited job lol.

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

I feel like RUN, PUP, BST are limited job candidates, because they may have no creative purpose for such jobs. Limited jobs to them may be "We do not know what to do with this one, lets just make it function independently so don't have to balance it."

Gonna take some heat for this, but SMN, IMO, was a true limited job candidate if done right. SMN on its' own could summon Primals that are true to size, and the lore behind SMN, being a job whom utilizes some of the most powerful creatures.

Ironically, I feel like it may have been worst as a limited job lol.

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Interesting fun fact is way way way back when there was talk of players being able to capture primals and summon them for great effect, like in the open world too. The full power primal.

I imagine that was part of their resistance to giving SMN a visually representative primal summoning (not suggesting 1:1, but more visually similar like Demi are), I think Yoshida was aiming to make primals something special. Which isn't an evil idea, and the whole huge summons the the battlefield thing is cool (I believe even mentioning some PvP events with this concept), but in the end I think restricting summoner so much so whether it was because of that or not in and of itself had inherently conflicted with the imagery of summoner and so making it feel less of a summoner by accident. I think the idea would have worked better if Summoner the job was never introduced, like summons worked a bit like FF7 or other item/non-job based variants (FFXV)- could have even been our limit breaks we unlock or something (picture calling Ramuh down like in FFXV as your limit break :D). That doesn't really fit now though since we have SMN as a job lol, I think it'd be a big bummer if your warrior in your group summoned a better ifrit than you XD.

Personally I don't think SMN needs to be limited to be grand (and I feel Demi are doing great at show casing that). I suppose for a long time I felt they missed the mark for SMN saying stuff like "the only consistent thing about summoner is it's the most grand magic of mythical beings, some with control some as one shot spells but always grand-- these egi cannot be it.. this isn't summoner. This is like black mage without explosions, you can't.", but happily we now have Demi and with each expansion going more primal, big, and bold. So I think it's fine now or at least saying it's on a much brighter path (thematically), though I do casually wonder how awesome summoner could have been if they started the whole job from the start with that in mind "summons *hand wave* beautiful spells and mythical entities, huge egos, jealous black mages, say goodbye to our art budget, *fist pump*. FFXIV HW- please look forward to Summoner!" lol.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

They could have had you learn 20 or so spells in the field, certainly it would be different than leveling up a job normally but it wouldn't prevent blue mage from performing and behaving like a blue would be expected.

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The collection of spell has always been a staple of BLU, as is the fact that some of them are tied to very specific and challenging targets. You don't have that with job actions. A BLM not doing all its job quests is lazy, a BLU not clearing Titania Extreme to learn one spell is not. Another staple of BLU is its versatility, which would make it hard to balance if it was supposed to be used in the same context as other jobs. Giving a DPS spells like White Wind or Mighty Guard is a problem, as are spells like lvlX Doom.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

To qualify as a BLU it literally just needs to use skills that monsters use that players generally can't, learnt through typically traditional means. If all of BLU's rotational skills were from the overworld/ normal mode instances with 100% learn rate upon seeing it once then it would still be BLU

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Like I said above, versatility would still be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Videra

Then, I have a very simple solution to propose to you - make them normal jobs. BADA BING BADA BOOM! Problem solved! This limited job malarky needs to die in a fire.

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I'm pretty sure people would have been far more pissed to have BLU as a pure caster DPS and denied most of its versatility. OR would feel betrayed if there was no challenge in Learning the spells and they would be simply given to you by simply leveling.

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

Gonna take some heat for this, but SMN, IMO, was a true limited job candidate if done right. SMN on its' own could summon Primals that are true to size, and the lore behind SMN, being a job whom utilizes some of the most powerful creatures.

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Yes, but instead of that, they forced SMN to fit into the very restrictive holy trinity...and, of course, everybody welcomed the useless pets that look that pokemons, right ? :p

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

The collection of spell has always been a staple of BLU, as is the fact that some of them are tied to very specific and challenging targets. You don't have that with job actions.

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This depends on how you implement spell learning. A suggestion I wrote long ago involved splitting Blue Magic between lesser spells from monsters that could be learned in the overworld and greater spells that would be learned from job quests (the job quest would involve the monster you'd learn the spell from; i.e a quest where you learn Bad Breath would involve a Marlboro). That said,

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A BLM not doing all its job quests is lazy, a BLU not clearing Titania Extreme to learn one spell is not.

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The blame for that can be placed on the devs, as they're the ones that decided BLU can learn abilities from primals. It's spectacle that creates an unnecessary hurdle.

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Another staple of BLU is its versatility, which would make it hard to balance if it was supposed to be used in the same context as other jobs. Giving a DPS spells like White Wind or Mighty Guard is a problem, as are spells like lvlX Doom.

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Looking at the spell lists for FFV, FFVI, FFVII, and FFIX, I wouldn't call BLU versatile. What I would call it is a mage with decent utility ranging from status ailments, some buffs and a singular heal (not counting Strago's access to Transfusion) but focuses on dealing damage. Depending on which game, damage types the other party members don't have access to.

There's nothing that says BLU absolutely has to have LvX Death, Self Destruct (as meme-worthy as that spell is), and a full-effect Bad Breath in order to be considered a proper Blue Mage. The more "unique" spells that have gimmicks (like the ones that involve your level vs the mob's level, random percentages and items in your inventory) aren't mandatory, either.

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I'm pretty sure people would have been far more pissed to have BLU as a pure caster DPS and denied most of its versatility. OR would feel betrayed if there was no challenge in Learning the spells and they would be simply given to you by simply leveling.

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You're limiting yourself to the system for the other jobs instead of looking beyond that. I mean hell, if I had been asked to implement BLU, the first thing to do would be implementing a unique system for learning abilities, then set up the ability spread for duties, then expand that for content like the Masqued Carnivale so that BLU would be able to run dungeons and raids with a balanced (if limited) kit, and have a million spells at their disposal for the Masqued Carnivale. Best of all is that it'd be easy to explain away by saying "this job stone gives you access to a limited number of abilities out in dungeons, but here at the carnivale we have these beacons that enhance your job stone so you can use a lot more spells".

to be honest I blame not the Dev but human behavior. look here the issue you all aren't used to concept of limit jobs as yet you keep scream to make them more like the rest Jobs this an example of human behavior in practice when the devs introduce something never done you demand it be remove and change because your not used to have a job that isn't linked to the holy trinity, I am the first to admit I would love to see summoner work on more if you look how post I made with suggest how do the summoner how thing I suggest for summoner to fix it you see I love summoner and pet jobs. I believe that when SE introduce more job players will get used to it will stop player for demand they problem not. I been one suggest summoning like see Carbruncle like step stone where you have him out all at time but he respent each summon I been one suggest add Shiva and Ramuh I like Carbruncle but I like see summoner more like ffviii or ffxi. I like see bahumat more as the third tear in the summon I suggest ideal like high summon I suggest Diamond Carbruncle and Amystie Carbruncle

I been suggest add companion like dragonling and update the chocobo companion system

I want beast master to be a job like rest but am will accept it like Blue mage because I realize that job like blue mage and bst require more even Yoshi has said this.

I want a tanking mage jobs because it has never been done before I orginal suggest make blue mage a tank mage job

Easy limit job if SE wanted to do mimic only has one skill to use.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Looking at the spell lists for FFV, FFVI, FFVII, and FFIX, I wouldn't call BLU versatile. What I would call it is a mage with decent utility ranging from status ailments, some buffs and a singular heal (not counting Strago's access to Transfusion) but focuses on dealing damage.

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Yeah sure, having Mighty Guard as the best buff ever and White Wind as a the best healing skill, on top of having spells that can one-shot bosses of the proper level is only "decent".

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Originally Posted by Duelle

There's nothing that says BLU absolutely has to have LvX Death, Self Destruct (as meme-worthy as that spell is), and a full-effect Bad Breath in order to be considered a proper Blue Mage.

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Well, technically, there's nothing that says BLM absolutely have to have Fire, Thunder and Blizzard, right ?

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The more "unique" spells that have gimmicks (like the ones that involve your level vs the mob's level, random percentages and items in your inventory) aren't mandatory, either.

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Gimmicks are part of job's identity. If you don't care about that, just dye your Red Mage gear Blue, and you'll be a Blue Mage.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

so that BLU would be able to run dungeons and raids with a balanced (if limited) kit, and have a million spells at their disposal for the Masqued Carnivale.

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Ok, so, how is that different from what I've suggested pages ago with "limited" feature, and wouldn't still have its tsunami of complaints about how BLU wouldn't be able to do dungeons at its full potential ?

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

to be honest I blame not the Dev but human behavior. look here the issue you all aren't used to concept of limit jobs as yet you keep scream to make them more like the rest Jobs this an example of human behavior in practice when the devs introduce something never done you demand it be remove and change because your not used to have a job that isn't linked to the holy trinity

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Yes, they introduced a new thing in the game, and it has failed. I mean it's great you like it
but I am actually seeing you as the only person who really likes how it's handled, from here and other sources.

It shouldn't be done again. BLU has been a team-player in every FF game
and making it this stupid solo thing isn't fun. Not only that it's not even a real solo job
as you need other jobs to help you get some of the boss skills...It's makes no sense.

BST would be the same thing.
You'll get to capture x amount of monsters, with a annoying tedium like BLU and it's abysmal steal rate
(Even Zidane from FF9 has a better steal rate than this crap...Danged Fairy Flute man...)
and then never touch the job again until it's next update. 6 months to a year to an expansion lol.

They need a better vision than this and if it's too late, I just hope no other job comes to face this nonsense.

Has really fail or has your concept of it failed to understand it yet or more to be correct have you fail to adept to it. if it failed they won't be add more level to it would there. limit jobs are Niche jobs for those who enjoy blue mage as was in it concept not for players who want it to be part of the trinity.

like many on form have not give it a chance to adept many on the forum demand it to adept to they desire of the trinity machinac not allow it grown into it own. I seen thread with 150 page demand they change blue mage never complain that I haven't done on this character. through I am give it a chance to grown and accept that blue mage will be a niche jobs as will other jobs and wait to see blue mage be able grown. I also understand this I just ask people give limit jobs to come into they own before count it out as failure. I even have argue that blue mage is a hardcore jobs.



I would chalk limit jobs off as failure after all 3 jobs are release so one look how they introduce and how the devs use them I would make suggest about the lmilt jobs on improve it but not tried force change it they games

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

The collection of spell has always been a staple of BLU, as is the fact that some of them are tied to very specific and challenging targets. You don't have that with job actions. A BLM not doing all its job quests is lazy, a BLU not clearing Titania Extreme to learn one spell is not. Another staple of BLU is its versatility, which would make it hard to balance if it was supposed to be used in the same context as other jobs. Giving a DPS spells like White Wind or Mighty Guard is a problem, as are spells like lvlX Doom.

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Hi :D. I remember talking about some of this with you before so I'll try not to rehash too many old ideas but I'm also happy to because I never felt like our persons were under attack so /wave lol.

For the Titania extreme example I'd say that it would indeed require clever planning of when and where abilities are obtained, but also that I don't think it needs to use extreme primals to get it done. Like for the most part you can use hard mode primals as well, which is far more farmable. Also on a personal aside note I don't really love that blue mage can learn primal spells since I think that should be what summoner is doing (bane be gone, cast eruption instead, etc, etc), but that's just a personal feeling.

For a loose example we could have every 10 levels the blue mage has a page in their blue mage book (for DF at least, not discussing the advanced job concept at the moment). Blue Mage levels via their book.

So you might think of a level 25 dungeon, and because I want to be lazy and make an easy example lets talk about esuna lol (don't think about what our jobs currently are, this is a new healer job). This dungeon requires esuna in order to go smoothly. You earn it at level 24 by doing a job quest (something SE has moved away from because they dont want players running around without their kit lol). I join and I'm level capped to 26 but still don't have esuna, annoying right? I think everyone agrees.

So in this blue mage book example, esuna-b is their level 24 skill. They're currently level 22. They go out to the monster that gives it. They learn it. They're now level 24. They couldn't join a dungeon without it and the DF doesn't even need to check their spell book because it's a level issue. We could make that concept granular even like how our hunting logs worked (if people recall that log that just sort of collects dust at the moment lol)- in order to complete your log you need x y z tasks. So to reach level 25 could be spell "x y z", this allowing blue mage some freedom in the order they learn spells in that bracket but still restricting them into a space that meets DF's expectations. Of course if you join a level 23 dungeon people shouldn't expect you have your level 24 spells, and this is already true- sometimes you gain a level in a dungeon and gain a new spell in said dungeon and I think that's fine and not fair to have issue with (not saying you did, just saying "some" missing skills depending on why is okay).

Under the advanced job concept, where blue mage has a huge book of spells, and some of the spells are gilded (surrounded by a gold marker) to notate those are DF spells. Where Blue Mage can become unchained for any non-current content or chained for current. I think it's a bit easier even as we could keep the same fast open world leveling and just tell blue mages "if you want to join the content you have to have the spells of that dungeon's level and lower". So it just becomes a sort of shopping list. Of course if one of the spells is like "Bahamut Ultimate" you'd have a problem.. but I'd say.. don't do that lol. Also these gilded spells could have adjusted learning rates (start much higher). Because blue mage would level much faster I think the learning would offset that and make it "fairly" fair that blue mage levels the fastest.

Finally on weird spells and versatility I agree with Duelle that it's not necessarily that they're able to do all roles well or be a jack of all trades.. things like that and it's more just they've access to abnormal ideas. I think for many of these abnormal spells you can make them work in spirit even if they're not perfect clones. Say for example bad breath will really mess up trash packs for a short period of time but the main feature of bad breath, the feature that exists into boss fights even, is the poison and defense down debuff (like a less powerful trick attack debuff). Novelty in that blue mage could pause an entire pack for a few seconds, but function for when the novelty must fail (bosses, could even have the bosses just ignore all the status afflictions but the DoT / def down, so it's easier to balance than "oh I forgot to make that boss immune to paralyze.... now blue mages are abusing it"). For death you could have something incredible like on a /huge/ cooldown you can outright kill one trash monster, perhaps for a little play and chance it either kills them outright or deals like 75% hp. Once cast death turns to something like mortal ray or death ray, a high powered damaging spell that is combined in some way in the rotation of spells. Each time you cast death ray it lowers death's cooldown. Death automatically changes to death ray when you enter boss rooms (meaning there is no way to cast it on a boss).

I do feel you're presenting issues SE would have to thoughtfully consider, I just don't agree they're issues that cannot be solved or at least cannot be presented in some fascinating way without having to kill the DF portion of blue mage. Like I think it'd be interesting if blue mage leveled fast but had to go get their own spells, or if they unlocked new pages of the book as they leveled, or whatever other idea that fits in there but still allows DF. Something like how I was fine I had to go pilgrimage for primals in FFXI as it was flavor to the job, or in WoW where you used to have to take care of your pet and pet choice mattered more (it's a bit annoying some days but I think the pet feeding mechanic was awesome... loved that I had to pick up fishing and sometimes just stop what I'm doing and relax a bit to make my pet happy again). It's why I guess I was thinking advanced jobs could be fun, the idea they bring something different to the table we're all used to sitting at- they require you to do something a bit abnormal.. that they level different or require a different feedback loop.. just changes on some core principles that you don't normally expect to change- I think that's kind of exciting. I don't love limited jobs though because I think there is an incredible potential for disappointment (like people who wanted to main blue mage in DF, like I did). I'll admit there can be some fun concepts still under limited but I still think the potential for disappointment is grand (like I'd probably enjoy blue mage more if it was a solo god, as we talked about before).

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I'm pretty sure people would have been far more pissed to have BLU as a pure caster DPS and denied most of its versatility. OR would feel betrayed if there was no challenge in Learning the spells and they would be simply given to you by simply leveling.

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A very small minority of people, relative to how pretty much everyone hates this limited job bullshit. Understand: Limited Jobs are a bad idea, will always be a bad idea, and have no place in the game. They will never be good content, and if you honestly think Blue Mage is an addition worth the salt that it produced, you're incredibly wrong. I don't know what to tell you.

The actual (incredibly small) amount of people who care about the class fantasy of BLU 'collecting' spells from monsters that couldn't be sated by class quests really shouldn't really have been listened to. Adapt it to the way the game works within the confines of what we have now, not make content that is dead on arrival and wastes something people wanted.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

Has really fail or has your concept of it failed to understand it yet or more to be correct have you fail to adept to it. if it failed they won't be add more level to it would there. limit jobs are Niche jobs for those who enjoy blue mage as was in it concept not for players who want it to be part of the trinity.

like many on form have not give it a chance to adept many on the forum demand it to adept to they desire of the trinity machinac not allow it grown into it own. I seen thread with 150 page demand they change blue mage never complain that I haven't done on this character. through I am give it a chance to grown and accept that blue mage will be a niche jobs as will other jobs and wait to see blue mage be able grown. I also understand this I just ask people give limit jobs to come into they own before count it out as failure. I even have argue that blue mage is a hardcore jobs.



I would chalk limit jobs off as failure after all 3 jobs are release so one look how they introduce and how the devs use them I would make suggest about the lmilt jobs on improve it but not tried force change it they games

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Adapt to what exactly? It's boring as sin lol. The new BLU smell goes off rather quickly.
They're not fun now and they won't be fun later.
So...no lol. I want a job that people can play more than a day and not cry themselves to sleep.
If was part of the trinity, you wouldn't complain it as you said before.
So why are you even oppose to it really being away from the trinity? O-o
This craps awful. Please just give us more jobs to play with and play with friends please.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

I believe that limit jobs need more time to have the community to get used it I believe we hold are comment till after beast master will introduce I do enjoy the machinac of vanilla wow when came to beast master as you do Shougun I enjoy the pet had favorite area it like fight in it favorite food it had lvl for what every lvl you tamed it at. I hope the blue mage can team up with beast master and puppet master for example all 3 are limit jobs so this could be possible.

I am guess you came wow or game like it. i play ffxi and other game like swg dancer by your view was crap in swg because it gave buff it was buff jobs it was there only to give buff.

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It should not take months into years for a piece of content to be fun.
We've already adapted to the fact the danged job is the joke of all jobs.
I barely know anything about WoW and FFXI so I'm not sure what that has to do with this.

I believe that limit jobs need more time to have the community to get used it I believe we hold are comment till after beast master will introduce I do enjoy the machinac of vanilla wow when came to beast master as you do Shougun I enjoy the pet had favorite area it like fight in it favorite food it had lvl for what every lvl you tamed it at. I hope the blue mage can team up with beast master and puppet master for example all 3 are limit jobs so this could be possible.

I am guess you came wow or game like it. i play ffxi and other game like swg dancer by your view was crap in swg because it gave buff it was buff jobs it was there only to give buff.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

I am guess you came wow or game like it. i play ffxi and other game like swg dancer by your view was crap in swg because it gave buff it was buff jobs it was there only to give buff.

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I played Star Wars Galaxies, I adored that game! But it was a different game. Those buffs were devastatingly important to doing anything with any degree of efficiency, as was the way of things at the time. In both the pre combat upgrade days and NGE days, the various forms of buffing professions had a place. I played several of them, myself. Or at least had characters dedicated to the same. But, here's what you're not getting.

SWG was a sandbox MMO, FFXIV is a themepark MMO. They function on very different mechanics, communities, and gameplay styles.

tfw there are people that consider "class that can use skills that enemies also use" and "pet dps class" to be radical concepts that can only be divorced from the rest of the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Videra

The actual (incredibly small) amount of people who care about the class fantasy of BLU 'collecting' spells from monsters that couldn't be sated by class quests really shouldn't be listened to. Adapt it to the way the game works, not make content that is dead on arrival and wastes something people wanted.

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There is no reason to throw out the learning system. The 'job quest' system commonly proposed actually makes it harder on the devs because then they can't change BLU's spell loadout without changing the quests.
Just require equipping specific spells to enter the duty finder. That's all that is needed.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

There is no reason to throw out the learning system. The 'job quest' system commonly proposed actually makes it harder on the devs because then they can't change BLU's spell loadout without changing the quests.
Just require equipping specific spells to enter the duty finder. That's all that is needed.

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No, no - I'm saying it should have been a normal job to begin with. But in this case, yes - you're right. But SE isn't going to do that, because Blue Mage will never be content that's anything more than dead on arrival. It's sad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Videra

No, no - I'm saying it should have been a normal job to begin with. But in this case, yes - you're right. But SE isn't going to do that, because Blue Mage will never be content that's anything more than dead on arrival. It's sad.

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Apologies for the misunderstanding.
Yes, it is very sad. I hold out hope because I'm stubborn, but they've so far said nothing and doubled down.

The community needs to be more vocal we need to stop accepting these half-baked ideas and being ok with them.

It's simply unacceptable, if content isn't feasible then don't add it until it is. Even Stormblood machinist was in bad shape in 4.0 but it was still usable for everything and never reached the level of death that BLU has reached in the 10 months it has been out.

no comminuty need stop tried push change without give the jobs breath room to see end. you assumed you and folks on the forum respent the community I not sure you do.

wow isn't the stone that every mmorpg should have every job to be like yet many of you want it to be

Limited Jobs are like a charity service. You have to be willing to help others with no profit in it for you other than the satisfaction of helping others. Yes, there are generous souls out there in the world that would run thru Shiva Ex a thousand times til you got Glass Dance but you can't honestly expect this to go over well when its required for at least a solid 1/3 of your toolkit in order to actually enjoy the job for the 1 bit of content that its designed for; You're asking a lot for very little pay out especially when its a one shot pay off.

The time investment involved with skill acquisition coupled with the lackluster reward of the Masked Carnival are why BLU failed so horribly. I can't run content without going the extra mile of begging others to play with me in outdated content or playing the only content designed for me that I have already cleared out fully.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

no comminuty need stop tried push change without give the jobs breath room to see end. you assumed you and folks on the forum respent the community I not sure you do.

wow isn't the stone that every mmorpg should have every job to be like yet many of you want it to be

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Can someone translate this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Videra

Can someone translate this?

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"No, the community needs to stop trying to push change without giving jobs the breathing room to see their end. You assume that you and people on the forums represent the community but I'm not sure you do. Wow isn't the standard that every MMORPG should try to be like, yet many of you want it to be."

For the record, I disagree with the concept of limited jobs in principle and am insanely bored with BLU, I would not want to see BST, PUP, or others given the same treatment for content that takes so much development resources and is dead in less than 3 weeks. I just figured I'd translate :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

no comminuty need stop tried push change without give the jobs breath room to see end. you assumed you and folks on the forum respent the community I not sure you do.

wow isn't the stone that every mmorpg should have every job to be like yet many of you want it to be

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How much room to breath does the job need?

It has been 10 months, and the only new thing that has been promised is a log that seems similar to wonderous tails.

I hope the Blue Mage log will make BLU shine...

but only time will tell.

give till the next Limit Jobs come out that we give it a grace period

a expansion is the expansion and it patch cycle.

my challenge to those against blue mage is to come up with suggest to improve the job we have now to make more solo friendly because if you look at summoner I don't think they change blue mage any time soon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

give till the next Limit Jobs come out that we give it a grace period

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I don't think we should wait until 5.5 before being able to say that a piece of content is objective garbage.

more like limit my sub time and play something else when there is nothing else to do.

because your impatient and what judge what has not be finish or has been buff or nerf you and you want it to be what you want blue mage to be the picture fit in to the trinity. well guess what it doesn't if how they dealt with summoner is any thing to go by they never change blue mage you stuck with it as is you make 100 thread demand them to change or get anger at me for like it as is and like limited jobs but the devs won't change it. in fact you tried rally the community since most people think the way my fc mate think that forum are full troll they won't care. through I seen them as place give helpful feed back but for people like me the dozen of people who whine and throw fit of had they don't like the job and want to be just as they picture it to be because it new it hasn't been done before it isn't like any of jobs that ffxiv has done before.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Under the advanced job concept, where blue mage has a huge book of spells, and some of the spells are gilded (surrounded by a gold marker) to notate those are DF spells.

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That's roughly what I imagined with the concept of "limited" feature. The issue with BLU, be it its unpredicatability, and its balance. Two things that are only an issue in random group. So, thos gilded spells would indeed be the only ones you would have in PUG, and would probably be learned via job quests of through an easy-non-random process.

But, if you build a premade, you check "unchain" or "limited" in the DF menu, and suddenly, you have access to everything. And you could do the same for every job, giving them more depth that won't be an issue since you have time to discuss the setup before going into duties.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Videra

A very small minority of people, relative to how pretty much everyone hates this limited job bullshit.

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Since you don't have the actual numbers, that's an assumption based on a the vocal part of the playerbase, which is always a minority.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Videra

The actual (incredibly small) amount of people who care about the class fantasy of BLU 'collecting' spells from monsters that couldn't be sated by class quests really shouldn't really have been listened to.

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Yes, they should, because at the end of an expansion, it's more interesting to offer something new to do, instead of another job to farm the things you already farm for months. You just have to realize that, right now, BLU is not a job, it's a content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Yes, they should, because at the end of an expansion, it's more interesting to offer something new to do, instead of another job to farm the things you already farm for months. You just have to realize that, right now, BLU is not a job, it's a content.

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Meanwhile, literally no one asked BLU to be this sort of content.
They asked for it to be a job like any other like loads thought it would be.
At least we could still continue to play BLU for the entirety of the game if it
was a normal job. Not play for a few days to a week and never again until
it's next update.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

because your impatient and what judge what has not be finish or has been buff or nerf you and you want it to be what you want blue mage to be the picture fit in to the trinity. well guess what it doesn't if how they dealt with summoner is any thing to go by they never change blue mage you stuck with it as is you make 100 thread demand them to change or get anger at me for like it as is and like limited jobs but the devs won't change it. in fact you tried rally the community since most people think the way my fc mate think that forum are full troll they won't care. through I seen them as place give helpful feed back but for people like me the dozen of people who whine and throw fit of had they don't like the job and want to be just as they picture it to be because it new it hasn't been done before it isn't like any of jobs that ffxiv has done before.

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This isn't want the player base wanted so no ones going to care.
People have made posts on how to make BLU like a normal job and suggestions.
BLU is a joke. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we're trolls.
Like dang, let people have an opinion on a job they wanted so badly that turned to crap.
With that, I'm done replying to you since how you're acting.