RIP Ninja - 5.05

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Originally Posted by Kyofu

Felt like Christmas this morning. Woke up excited to see what presents my class might have gotten, and then I read one little insignificant change. It's like being handed coal for Christmas. Hey at least you got something they'll say. lol

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As a NIN main, I would have preferred the coal.

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Originally Posted by Kyofu

Felt like Christmas this morning. Woke up excited to see what presents my class might have gotten, and then I read one little insignificant change. It's like being handed coal for Christmas. Hey at least you got something they'll say. lol

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got something all right mental abuse stress and neglect for being a class that fluffs everyone else dps with a high skill cap and no reward nor a lick of respect.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Ninja is getting punished hard for having trick attack.

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It's obnoxious.

Zero reason to play Ninja now when you can play Samurai or Monk both easier and way more damage potenial.

Yes I’ve been saying this since I picked up the job because the community over values trick so much we can never get any of the balance changes ninjas really need. It’s all coming to a head now and people are starting to notice it more as we get more and more utility into the game. In stormblood drg’s With the piercing debuff easily out did ninja in raid dps and monks with brotherhood and their personal dps could out dps a ninjas raid contribution with trick attack.. yet despite both those facts people were still saying trick attack is op and they can’t buff ninja or they would be 2 strong. And now this is where we end up because of it

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Ninja is getting punished hard for having trick attack.

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Yes I’ve been saying this since I picked up the job because the community over values trick so much we can never get any of the balance changes ninjas really need. It’s all coming to a head now and people are starting to notice it more as we get more and more utility into the game. In stormblood drg’s With the piercing debuff easily out did ninja in raid dps and monks with brotherhood and their personal dps could out dps a ninjas raid contribution with trick attack.. yet despite both those facts people were still saying trick attack is op and they can’t buff ninja or they would be 2 strong. And now this is where we end up because of it

You're in the Meta, how many buffs do you want?


Heres the deal. You get more Potency, if they reduce or remove trick attack's Vulnerability debuff.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

I'm no main NiN but I think NiN's Rotation is kinda smooth as it is.
It's the self-dps potency that need to be buffed,I think.

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Their rotation is not smooth in any sense of the word it might feel fine to someone just picking it up to mess around here and there but to a ninja main the issues are very apparent the fact that fuma is useless basically forces us to do at least a 2 step mudra every 20 second which with great ping take about 2.5-3 seconds to perform automatically clipping your around 2 second gcd (with Huton up).. so let’s add on top the fact that they added meisi which basically doubled the amount of suitors we are putting out during the fight which is a 3 step mudra at least 3-4 second to perform with good ping.. or saving it to pair with tcj which has it own sets of problems I don’t even want to get into here you can see how the clipping adds up thought the course of an encounter to the point were we are losing entire combos by the end of the fight because we clip out gcd so frequently.. on top of the fact that if you get mudra lag (which is very common) not only do you clip your gcd you also loss more dps cuz you lose your mudra potency as well.

In short it’s frustrating to see people that aren’t 100% invested in the job saying the job is playing fine when the one committed to it are asking for changes

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Originally Posted by Khalen_Shield

You're in the Meta, how many buffs do you want?


Heres the deal. You get more Potency, if they reduce or remove trick attack's Vulnerability debuff.

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What meta are you referring 2 because ninja have not been in the meta since shadowbringers released monks and drgs well out dps ninjas raid contribution. Even dancers with there lower personal dps out dps ninja on a raid output basis.. so I’m not sure what meta your referring to but ninja def are not in it

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Originally Posted by Khalen_Shield

You're in the Meta, how many buffs do you want?

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Meta right now is, to not bring a NIN at all, because its a dps loss.

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Originally Posted by Khalen_Shield

Heres the deal. You get more Potency, if they reduce or remove trick attack's Vulnerability debuff.

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DEAL!

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Remove the bunny and fail mudras on weapon skill

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Or let you weave mudras in between gcd weapons skills please!! DX

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

This would be single biggest change they could make to NIN in terms of making it easier to play without totally revamping the class.

It honestly feels wrong at this point that NIN is the only class that can straight up waste an OGCD by botching their ninjutsu. Especially when they were implying DNC's step mechanic would somehow make them more "skill-based" but the only thing you waste from messing up at that is a fraction of a second.

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THANK YOU!! Plus the fact that dancers get compensated 1000 and 1500 potency for the time it took them to perform their steps. Ninja don’t even make up for there clipped gcd with raiton on top of the fact that it’s easily botched with any type of lag spike :(

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Originally Posted by Zytoryu

The Dev team has always been absent minded with Ninja but now its really showing.

the fact so many other jobs got some good QoL and buffs this patch while Ninja got an effective "poke" in the direction of balance is sickening, odds are the Dev team is going to go "well you guys have trick don\\'t you?" when asked about how abysmal the job is.

Enough is Enough. The job has suffered to role of being shitty Trick Attack bot for 2 expansions now. How the actual hell it survived the utility purge of 5.0 without getting changed in the slightest is beyond me. but its time to stop. the job is a legit detriment to the average party and not even a good choice to a top performing one that can properly play around Trick Attack. This Needs to Change as soon as Possible.

the job just can\\'t go on in this state. the personal damage NEEDS to be brought up and Trick Attack NEEDS to be brought down. its not interesting, its never been interesting, and its only going to get worse unless they do something about it. Which given the track record of the Dev team on Ninja. is probably not going to happen.

This isn\\'t EVEN delving into the gameplay issues the job faces. massive amounts of double weaving, nearly certain GCD clipping with mudras even at ideal ping levels, the fact job still suffers so much for ping after nearly 5 years of being complained about.

It\\'s time for them to do their jobs as developers and FIX THE GAME.

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AMEN *slow claps with a tear falling down his face*

The creator of the DPS parser said NINs DoTs werent currently being added to their DPS, nor the shadow clone move, so this, + those eventually being fixed, should show NINs DPS being a bit better than people think.
(Correct me if the DPS on DoTs/pets has already been fixed since his 5.0 announcement)

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

The creator of the DPS parser said NINs DoTs werent currently being added to their DPS, nor the shadow clone move, so this, + those eventually being fixed, should show NINs DPS being a bit better than people think.
(Correct me if the DPS on DoTs/pets has already been fixed since his 5.0 announcement)

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It’s Been fixed he put out his last update about 2 weeks ago

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Originally Posted by Mezzoforte

This is exactly how every class that wasnt AST, BRD, DRG or NIN in SB felt. You will always feel like a hindrance when you aren't META.

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Uh. No. Meta is created by the community. Beint the best pic, and being a viable pick are two different things. "We would prefer you WERENT that class, but it can still do the job"

But obviously since it was meta before, people are just happy to trash at people upset that its not even compareable. "Yea hows it feel now you nerd!" Is pretty much what ya did. And the thread is about ppl sad about NIN

Ninja biggest problem is and will always be having trick attack.

It is unnecessary, does not match the lore of the job and causes the class to be sub par on 95% of the content because it is supposedly op in the other 5% (only if played perfectly and with a party that also syncs perfectly with it).

Honestly any change besides removing trick attack and balancing the class again will always be insufficient.

R.I.P. Ninja and Summoner.

They'll be buried in the same shallow, unmarked grave.

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Originally Posted by armandojc3

Ninja biggest problem is and will always be having trick attack.

It is unnecessary, does not match the lore of the job and causes the class to be sub par on 95% of the content because it is supposedly op in the other 5% (only if played perfectly and with a party that also syncs perfectly with it).

Honestly any change besides removing trick attack and balancing the class again will always be insufficient.

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If you check fflog’s new raid dps tracker dancers are by far the highest raid dps lowest I’ve seen is anywhere from 1000 dps giving to the party up to 1700 dps given to the party. Ninja with trick is sitting anywhere from 6 or 700 at the low end up to 1100 at the high end. the other melee jobs I’ve seen hit 200 on the low end up to 5 or 600 on the high end. bard and rdm are around 3 or 400 on the low end up to 6 or 700 on the high end. sum and sch are both around 300-500 as well. All depending on comp and skill levels.

So yea trick is strong but relatively not as op as everyone thinks. it takes a full team optimizing very well to hit trick attacks max contribution of around 1000 raid dps where dancer hits that on the low end with whatever comp you put it with.

So if you take a median let’s say around 800 rdps for Ninja compared to the other melee around 400 rdps is that 2-3000 gap in out personal dps really equivalent to us giving the party an extra 400 rdps?

I do still think trick attack should be brought down slightly to where it’s giving around 300-600 rdps and have us right behind the other melee dps in terms of personal output.. but I stand by my thought that the community over values trick attacks contribution and Ninja continually suffer because of it.

How about... they give us Shadewalker back, cept its a permanent buff you place on someone, but allows them to benefit from your TA, otherwise, only you do. This will make TA "less op" and there would no longer be a reason to keep NIN as low as it is... i know this takes a page out of Dancer's book, but the type of support is appealing. (I love Dancer)

Also stop people from going "Stop complaining, you were always meta"


...and maybe make TA last 15 seconds

Numbers aside they need to revamp the mudra system. It is too punishing. If it was just me screwing up fine, but the whole thing is so sensetive to your latency and connection, something the emphasis ShB has on it brought to the light. One of the most frequent things I read in the JP NIN thread was that people dislike how much it bites into your gcds and how stressed they are about execution, with a lot of systems in the NIN kit being reliant on a very strickt execution with no catchup net.

Fix the mudras and give NIN the QoL changes every other class has gotten by now.

Wish SE would at least say more changes are on the way, they dont even have to say when, right now almost every ninja is giving up on the job.

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Originally Posted by TaiyouSeishin

How about... they give us Shadewalker back, cept its a permanent buff you place on someone, but allows them to benefit from your TA, otherwise, only you do. This will make TA "less op" and there would no longer be a reason to keep NIN as low as it is... i know this takes a page out of Dancer's book, but the type of support is appealing. (I love Dancer)

Also stop people from going "Stop complaining, you were always meta"


...and maybe make TA last 15 seconds

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It triggers me that we can fit our entire burst into our trick attacks anymore.. and I would be down for this change it would make trick attacks rdps around 200-500ish depending on who your give the buff to.. then they could be on par personal damage wise with the other melee dps besides sams who need love 2

Welp, that's it for me as well~

Yea the sustain is a tad low so thats why I was expecting some buffs to the GCDs, but 50 points only on one of them is faaaaaar from what NIN needed.
I may still main it for MSQ, as it feels the most natural for me, having been a NIN since its launch...

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Originally Posted by Gun-Cat

Numbers aside they need to revamp the mudra system. It is too punishing. If it was just me screwing up fine, but the whole thing is so sensetive to your latency and connection, something the emphasis ShB has on it brought to the light. One of the most frequent things I read in the JP NIN thread was that people dislike how much it bites into your gcds and how stressed they are about execution, with a lot of systems in the NIN kit being reliant on a very strickt execution with no catchup net.

Fix the mudras and give NIN the QoL changes every other class has gotten by now.

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Agree 1000% overall ninja has so many issue to tackle and the reason is that they have been neglected for so long cuz “trick attack is good” all these issues are things we’ve been asking for since release

Am I the only one that’s been laying in bed all day semi depressed since reading the patch notes?

Just checking for science

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Originally Posted by 24daking

Am I the only one that’s been laying in bed all day semi depressed since reading the patch notes?

Just checking for science

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ive been grudgingly gearing up my SAM for raid while i wilt in despair over what could have been.

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Originally Posted by 24daking

Am I the only one that’s been laying in bed all day semi depressed since reading the patch notes?

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You have 7 pages worth of bothered people here in only this post.

If they are intent on having Trick Attack Ninja's signature, then it needs to be more beneficial to Ninja directly.

I would suggest changing TA to Sneak Attack. Same as it is now, but once you execute from the rear, it changes to Trick Attack. Trick Attack, once used, would then give a damage buff to NIN to essentially extend or increase the burst window for personal DPS. Ideally you could probably Sneak Attack, unload Kassatsu, TCJ then Trick Attack followed by buffed Bunshin.

A simpler solution would be to just have NIN gain more from TA than the rest of the party, but that's also less interesting.

So how much dps will a 50 pot buff do?

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

So how much dps will a 50 pot buff do?

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~200 (according to balance discord).

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

So how much dps will a 50 pot buff do?

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Around 50-100 dps I would assume It would have been more during stormblood since we use gustslash go get to shadow fang also but now that shadow fang is 2 part again the buff isn’t as good as it could have been

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Originally Posted by Laur1x

~200 (according to balance discord).

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200 seems a tad high to me but I would need to look at some logs to see I was thinking 150 ish at the highest end

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

So how much dps will a 50 pot buff do?

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For an ability that gets used once every three gcd's?
Not as much as they seem to think it will.

The twenty potency buff on fire4 is so significant because in addition to getting the astral (or umbral now?) multiplier, you're essentially using fire4 six to seven times in a row.

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Originally Posted by Orbus

For an ability that gets used once every three gcd's?

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Less. Got taken out of shadow fang combo.

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Originally Posted by Orbus

For an ability that gets used once every three gcd's?
Not as much as they seem to think it will.

The twenty potency buff on fire4 is so significant because in addition to getting the astral (or umbral now?) multiplier, you're essentially using fire4 six to seven times in a row.

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There are logs you can look at and extrapolate from.

Looks like 150-200 DPS.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

There are logs you can look at and extrapolate from.

Looks like 150-200 DPS.

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Ok so basically a bandage on a halfway chopped off leg

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Less. Got taken out of shadow fang combo.

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Wow
10wow's

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Originally Posted by Laur1x

~200 (according to balance discord).

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stil worthless when you lose half that from a mess up or having to do mechanics.

square buff monk when monk was in a very good dps spot,
ok buffing sam, but buff monk and ignore Ninja, and Summoner wtf ? .