Disheartened healer annoyed with Shadowbringers' difficulty

just dont go into content that is to hard for you
there i solved your problem

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Originally Posted by Zoberraz

Hello again, this is the opening poster. :)
First off, thanks for chipping in. I got a great dea of encouragement... and what it help me with was the pressure. I was kind of taking it personally. As it is, I just made it to WHM 80. Yay! \o/ Now that I have my three roles, I'll continue the MSQ and unlock the last lv80 dungeon and trial.

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Congratulations on making it! The end of the story is really exciting, so have some fun!

Going to echo what some people here have said. It's easy to forget how in Leveling Dungeons things are a bit harder, especially when people (notably tanks) don't actually gear or anything. In addition, whenever there's bigger changes to classes like this, people have to get readjusted and reacquainted with their abilities. As a SCH I certainly had to get used to managing my Mana without Energy Drain anymore, for example. And that makes early dungeons (especially for inexperienced Tanks of which there are a TON at the moment) much more difficult than usual. As people progress, their gear will improve, and they'll get used to their new mechanics. DPS players will figure out how to optimize their rotations, Tanks will figure out when to use their cooldowns effectively, and Healers will come up with fun combos and the like. It all gets easier eventually!

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

just dont go into content that is to hard for you
there i solved your problem

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That's...terrible advice...

If you ever want to improve, you need to confront harder content to see where you need improvement.

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Originally Posted by Xelanar

This goes to show how much previous expansions focused our healer mindset towards DPS. Shadowbringers is but a step towards making things 'right' again by having healers actually heal.

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Spoken like a true DPS main

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

That's...terrible advice...

If you ever want to improve, you need to confront harder content to see where you need improvement.

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Not only that, but the dungeons OP was having issues with were leveling dungeons. Dungeons you HAVE to do to progress through the MSQ. You can’t just not do them. I echo the terrible advice.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Also, A Macro that I swear by is:
/micon "Broil"
/merror off
/ac "Broil" <t>
/ac "Broil" <tt>

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This doesn't let you queue up Broil though, so you have to hit it right at the point when the cast ends.

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Originally Posted by Xelanar

This goes to show how much previous expansions focused our healer mindset towards DPS. Shadowbringers is but a step towards making things 'right' again by having healers actually heal.

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There's a difference between merely healing and playing a healer well. There is, however, absolutely no difference in how healers, on the whole, work between this expansion or any prior iteration of the game. We see merely a continuation of the usual trend: as healer oGCDs are added to or power-creeped, we need even fewer GCDs of healing.

If you want to spend the majority of your actually healing, I suggest you go find some min ilvl Extreme ARR content and solo-heal it so that you can at least go 50/50 on the healing to damage ratio.

I've leveled WHM from 70 to 80 doing exclusively wall to wall dungeons. Sometimes with bad tanks, sometimes with good tanks and I never struggled. There is so much stuff I can use to heal on WHM it's insane. Bubble, Assize, Tetra, Beni, lily spenders and Divine Benison. That and for half the duration they are stunned because I'm spamming holy like a madman. Time to realise you have plenty of room to improve. It's not been difficult at all. It's you that are not using the tools available to you in a good fashion. Sounds rough, but that's the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

On all healers, but especially WHM, dps is largely how you keep your tank alive in wall-to-wall pulls.

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You're mistaking have good dps(teammates) with dpsing as a healer when your tank needs heals. Holy til it's worthless is fine but all the matters is that everyone is still alive by the time your mana hits 0. Wall-to-wall pulls are largely about actually healing.

You'll heal more than you'll use holy that's for sure.

I think it feels like that at the start of each expansion.
Your equipment is no longer on point, you are learning new skills, healing tanks also adapting to their job change.
So it can get messy pretty fast but it will get better.

I personally see a huge difference in playing SCH at the start of the expansion and now after farming the primals (better equipment and a better understanding of my toolbox)

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

You're mistaking have good dps(teammates) with dpsing as a healer when your tank needs heals. Holy til it's worthless is fine but all the matters is that everyone is still alive by the time your mana hits 0. Wall-to-wall pulls are largely about actually healing.

You'll heal more than you'll use holy that's for sure.

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When? Where? With myself and my party geared only in AF, alongside a tank and dps geared similarly, it was still 80+% Holy spam during wall-to-wall pulls on our first ever run.

Maybe on AST this holds true somewhat, but not across the entire role, that's for sure.

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You'll heal more than you'll use holy that's for sure.

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Er, no.

You will need to heal, sure, yet even if you are reduced to mashing CureII after having weaved all OGCD's between your Holy spam and left with no alternative, you will still have pressed Holy at an 80-20 ratio vs healing the tank. My last dungeon (before going on a crafting binge) was an EX-Roul (Twinning) with a solid DRK. The DPS was so-so, some of which died a few times due to probably being their first time, yet despite the mass-pulls dragging on longer than normal, it was a Holy AoE explosion party with only a few moments of needing to stop DPS entirely. This applies to all dungeons I had while levelling up, all dungeons I did to grind the tome Set, and all dungeons this week in full tome set.

You would need to head to Akademia (one of few with an early triple-pull) with a tissue-wearing tank for your comment to apply, which is one pull in all the ShB content and requires a weak tank to be remotely challenging -- and even then you WILL be casting Holy.

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

Don't believe me? I stream pretty regularly. Failing that, I could make some simple videos of me healing dungeons. Unless a tank is wearing tissue paper and/or being a mitigation scrooge, all you're going to see is holy explosions 24/7 with the odd Heal thrown in. Worse case scenario is DPS being asleep and mass-pulls going on forever, to a point where a tank eventually gets low enough to render you into cure-spam territory, which is quite easily remedied by oGCD's if you have them, but can (eventually) become a problem with enough damage and no backup buttons.

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If you or anyone else has videos of something like a Duty Finder Qitana Ravel where you DPS even half as much as you heal, I would very much like to see that.

Either I lose the tank lottery 100% of the time or there are two different games out there called Final Fantasy XIV and we aren't playing the same one.

IMO, there is nothing different about the outgoing damage in this expansion vs. any other. You're leveling with tanks that are also leveling. Nothing I've seen yet proves it will be any different than all of the other years I've been healing in this game. The only difference is that SCH now has far less interesting ways of doing DPS in downtime and AST sounds so awful I don't even really care if I ever get it to 80.

well yes... there is a massive difference on how easy is it to heal once you're decked in tome gear + EX jewelery and weapons. I certainly noticed a massive difference when it came to AST. I went from having to use my whole kit + Bene 2 spam everytime and praying that the tank knew what they were doing (sometimes it wasn't enough even if i used everything) to... just having to use the oGCD stuff and the tank was fine.

it does get better OP

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

You'll heal more than you'll use holy that's for sure.

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Not really. I leveled WHM recently and still Holy’d more than I Cure II’d. And this was with tanks doing standard double pulls in the leveling dungeons. It was night and day compared to AST, where I actually had to heal more than I could Gravity.

I'd say saying 80% is an exaggeration, for me it was closer to 50% of the time. Course I don't Savage raid nor is healing my most played role thus I'm not as comfortable when tanks get low on me.

From a fight design standpoint you still have way too much downtime. Titania EX can be done with just oGCD healing just like most previous fights.

On a practical min-maxing side your healing capabilities revolves around only using your oGCDs to heal and use the GCDs to DPS. It might not be what the devs want but it's what the players are doing with what the devs have given us. It doesn't help that from a kit design point of view they keep giving us strong oGCD heals. Basically our strongest heals have no cast time, are off the GCD AND no mana cost.You want us to use GCDs to heal? stop doing this. Seriously.

Furthermore we got the DPS tools removed / reduced and we are still stuck with the same if not more downtime because we're so focused on healing now. In return we get to spam 2 buttons if we don't want to sit around twiddling our thumbs. yaay...

I find it amusing how people kept trying to tell the devs there's no point in WHM being the healer powerhouse because nothing in the game required that much healing and if it did it would make WHM mandatory... only to have the devs double down on it and make every healer have tons of healing tools and give every healer the AST dps tools which was something no AST has ever wished for any other healer because of how dull it is.

They have been doubling down on all the wrong things.... again. Seriously one of the devs needs to be forced to play exclusively healer as homework since it doesn't look like any of them play healer. They also need to do a better job at comparing notes when giving roles similar skills. The disparity of strength between the "bubble" skill between healers is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Schan

From a fight design standpoint you still have way too much downtime. Titania EX can be done with just oGCD healing just like most previous fights.

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Possibly. I haven't leveled WHM yet or done EX but the sheer idea of just leaning on oGCD terrorfies me. I admit though I am very much a panic healer; the kind that throws out dots, maybe a couple damage abilities while still tossing a cure/heal, toss the AoE heal... and then semi panic when people start getting clipped by stuff.

While it might be possible for Healers to get away with oGCD doesn't mean every player of a healer can do so.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

Possibly. I haven't leveled WHM yet or done EX but the sheer idea of just leaning on oGCD terrorfies me. I admit though I am very much a panic healer; the kind that throws out dots, maybe a couple damage abilities while still tossing a cure/heal, toss the AoE heal... and then semi panic when people start getting clipped by stuff.

While it might be possible for Healers to get away with oGCD doesn't mean every player of a healer can do so.

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It's just a matter of learning the fight. I don't fault any healer for playing conservatively and keeping players topped off while they're still learning a fight, but there are some things you notice after a while. Using Titania as an example, I just have to use one oGCD AoE heal for Bright Sabbath, and then another for Flame Rune a while later, and then I'm good as far as AoE heals goes until the add phase. For the tank, just toss one on them if they're getting low (and not even then if they have Excog, I can just let them go down to 50% to pop it), or if I see Divination Rune being cast (And honestly I should just learn when those are so I can toss one there.)

I encourage healers to DPS as much as they can, but that's not to say to neglect healing. Rather, I feel that any healer worth their salt has what it takes to learn a fight and learn to optimize their toolkit to heal people as fast and with as few GCDs and MP as possible.

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If you or anyone else has videos of something like a Duty Finder Qitana Ravel where you DPS even half as much as you heal, I would very much like to see that.

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I don't, but I can go make one - which might not be fair as I'm no longer levelling up. Having said that, Ravel was still a case of triple-pulling up to 1st boss, triple pulling the bat-groups before second boss, and double-pulling everything else (which has unavoidable breaks). You most certainly will be spamming Holy all day, but bear in mind that both the Tank & DPS determine how much you can do this before heals are required. Given it's a levelling dungeon with a lot of people likely just wearing shreds of gear from the previous dungeon, you will often get relatively squishy tanks and/or DPS being lower than usual, which means you can only spam Holy so much before your weaving is expended and you are potentially forced into CureII spam. In short, if a mega-pull is not dead by the time Asylum, Temperance, Tetra, Benedict, and all your lilies have been used, you're left with good ole Cure spam. All of which is determined by the Tank/DPS more than the Healer.

Once you reach the higher dungeons (with less frequency of such situations and with players often on a more even gear-keel), you then realize just how much freedom you truly have. I could head to Amaurot right now and use the 2nd boss as an example seeing as it's a glorified trash-fight with an abundance of player-target mobs that can't be tanked and adds that can't be stunned, yet it doesn't matter. Holy for days with the odd Rapture in between, possibly a MedII if you want to be lazy. Failing that, the big triple-pack at the very start of Akademia.

Honestly, no dungeon in SHB provided me with any kind of issue, other than those provided by paper tanks or by DPS trying to slap mobs with a wet fish. Even then, Holy is still the most pressed button. As Urth said, it has a lot to do with understanding the dungeon as well as a few niche playstyle factors and understanding limits.

I am not sure what people thought was going to happen with the dps/healer debate and SE clearly siding with healing. They made healing harder. Things hit harder more often and our heals did not scale well going into the expansion. I cant speak for ast but whm and sch have no issues healing when properly geared and played. That is with the normal pull everything strat on trash. People that were keeping themselves busy should not have had problems adapting. But, surprise surprise the "I only heal" crowd have issues now.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

It's just a matter of learning the fight. I don't fault any healer for playing conservatively and keeping players topped off while they're still learning a fight, but there are some things you notice after a while. Using Titania as an example, I just have to use one oGCD AoE heal for Bright Sabbath, and then another for Flame Rune a while later, and then I'm good as far as AoE heals goes until the add phase. For the tank, just toss one on them if they're getting low (and not even then if they have Excog, I can just let them go down to 50% to pop it), or if I see Divination Rune being cast (And honestly I should just learn when those are so I can toss one there.)

I encourage healers to DPS as much as they can, but that's not to say to neglect healing. Rather, I feel that any healer worth their salt has what it takes to learn a fight and learn to optimize their toolkit to heal people as fast and with as few GCDs and MP as possible.

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I mean the fight is the same yes, Raid Wide Damage at 30 seconds into the fight. But I can't predict both my fellow players and ping, so I tend hold my panic buttons close and use more usual cures and heals so I can quickly fall back on the oGCDs if things go south. Now to people that know the fight or fully trust their groups to NOT mess up, yeah you can probably get away with it. Don't expect every healer to fall into that category though or end up calling them a bad player if they can't. Not saying you are but I've seen people pull that card a few times here and elsewhere over some really general stuff.

That said, I'm in the camp of at least throwing out a Dot or two if you have them. Yes providing DPS can help the fight go faster and cause less healing but at the same time didn't the devs say they aren't accounting for Healer damage anymore or is that old info/rumor?

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

I mean the fight is the same yes, Raid Wide Damage at 30 seconds into the fight. But I can't predict both my fellow players and ping, so I tend hold my panic buttons close and use more usual cures and heals so I can quickly fall back on the oGCDs if things go south. Now to people that know the fight or fully trust their groups to NOT mess up, yeah you can probably get away with it. Don't expect every healer to fall into that category though or end up calling them a bad player if they can't. Not saying you are but I've seen people pull that card a few times here and elsewhere over some really general stuff.

That said, I'm in the camp of at least throwing out a Dot or two if you have them. Yes providing DPS can help the fight go faster and cause less healing but at the same time didn't the devs say they aren't accounting for Healer damage anymore or is that old info/rumor?

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The trick is to realize that they are not panic buttons, but rather tools to be used. A 30 second recast does little to help if you're holding onto it for 5 minutes.Using them when they're available, especially the AoE heals, allows you to not only DPS more for a shorter fight, but also save your MP for when things go south.

The quick casting nature of your oGCDs may make it seem like they're for emergencies, but in truth? If someone is taking avoidable damage rapidly enough that you'd be unable to reach them with a cast in time, they're likely beyond helping even with them.

Your oGCDs are free to use. Use them early, use them often. Your MP casting spells, on the other hand, are your things for emergencies. It does take some getting used to that line of thinking, but once you do so you'll find you have a wealth of resources available to you.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

I mean the fight is the same yes, Raid Wide Damage at 30 seconds into the fight. But I can't predict both my fellow players and ping, so I tend hold my panic buttons close and use more usual cures and heals so I can quickly fall back on the oGCDs if things go south.

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You shouldn’t hold on to your oGCDs for emergencies. Especially since they tend to be stronger than your base kit GCDs. All fights and all outgoing damage in this game is scripted—once you learn the dance, it’s 100% possible to map out your healing in its entirety when it comes to oGCD usage. Even if people stand in the bad. Holding on to Essential Dignity for a full minute when the recast is 40 seconds means that you actually get less uses of them throughout any given encounter. Same for Excog, Indom, Tetra, and any other oGCD. So it’s really important to get in the habit of utilizing them first before you turn to your GCDs.

Priority for your healing should be oGCDs first (so things like Tetra, Essential Dignity, Indomitability, Lustrate, Excog, Asylum, and the new Sacred Soil), then GCDs (if you have instant-casts like WHM’s new Afflatus spells, use them first, then the casted GCDs like Cure I/II, Benefic I/II, and Physick).

I am sure many healers noticed tanks taking more damage than they are used to in leveling dungeons, but I think its just a gear/leveling issue. At 80 in experts the tanks don't feel nearly as squishy as they did when I was leveling WHM to 80.

WHM in Shadowbringers really feels awesome to me. I have an instant heal for every occasion and can spam Holy with impunity much of the time without regard for my mp.

I thought the exact same thing when I started Shadowbringers. I had been playing WHM a lot before the expansion, because I finally "understood" the class. I would pop a regen, asylum, maybe an aoe Aero, and then spam the heck out of holy. It was almost like playing a black mage, that occasionally would heal.

I started doing the same thing in dungeons when Shadowbringers came out, and the tanks couldn't stay alive. As soon as I even touched a dps spell, the tank would be nearly dead. So I went back to my 2.0 ways and... completely stopped dps'ing. I then started to realize opportunities to dps when doing large pulls, and I feel like I've been playing a lot better.

You can't play healers like you could pre-5.0. Start a "healing only" routine, and then slowly increment the amount of dps spells you cast until you (and the tank) feel comfortable. I just did all of the raids today as a WHM and loved the heck out of it.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

I mean the fight is the same yes, Raid Wide Damage at 30 seconds into the fight. But I can't predict both my fellow players and ping, so I tend hold my panic buttons close and use more usual cures and heals so I can quickly fall back on the oGCDs if things go south. Now to people that know the fight or fully trust their groups to NOT mess up, yeah you can probably get away with it. Don't expect every healer to fall into that category though or end up calling them a bad player if they can't. Not saying you are but I've seen people pull that card a few times here and elsewhere over some really general stuff.

That said, I'm in the camp of at least throwing out a Dot or two if you have them. Yes providing DPS can help the fight go faster and cause less healing but at the same time didn't the devs say they aren't accounting for Healer damage anymore or is that old info/rumor?

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Plan around your CDs, rather than saving them for emergencies. On average, as soon as you can use them without overhealing, you should probably be using them.
Your GCDs are strong enough to act as emergency tools except in wall-to-wall pulls, wherein everything short of your tank lagging out and standing in multiple strong AoEs is both granular and predictable.

im sorry OP but you need more trening as healer or change class to dps, healing in Shb dungeons is too easy for me and I rly wish it would be 2x more harder
I hope they will make something like M+ from wow or hard mode with harder mobs and better rewards with items and exp

Outside of getting used to the new expansion leveling learning curve which occurs with every expansion and leveling dungeons, nothing's felt remotely like the OP described for me when leveling WHM or even at 80 with WHM. I leveled both my main and alt to 80 with WHM too.

The only time I've had issues with having to heal a lot is with bad tanks not using cds properly or a good tank messing up a cd on a large pull. xD

So wait for all the people saying I should put more focus on using my OCDs; if using them is the focus of my kit and my GCDs are my emergency/damage buttons, how is healing harder? Cause I've seen people say that last expansion you could get away with doing the same thing to the point you didn't even need to cast a cure spell.

This is also seems built around the idea that nothing will go wrong with the other players. I'd rather hold onto something for 5 minutes and use it when it's helpful rather than throwing it out each time it's off CD and only getting a minor effect out of it.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

So wait for all the people saying I should put more focus on using my OCDs; if using them is the focus of my kit and my GCDs are my emergency/damage buttons, how is healing harder? Cause I've seen people say that last expansion you could get away with doing the same thing to the point you didn't even need to cast a cure spell.

This is also seems built around the idea that nothing will go wrong with the other players. I'd rather hold onto something for 5 minutes and use it when it's helpful rather than throwing it out each time it's off CD and only getting a minor effect out of it.

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Healing is "harder" in Shadowbringers because now you're required to use more oGCDs to get through content. I say "harder" because even in EX and the Eden raids, efficient healers (and teams) can get through content with minimal GCD healing. As a Scholar I can get through most of Shadowbringers' wall-to-wall dungeon pulls with only using 1/2 or 3/4s of my oGCDs and a few Adloquiums, in pre-Shadowbringers content I wouldn't even need to manage my oGCDs in dungeons, let alone in bosses or EX. Albeit, Scholar has a lot of strong oGCDs, White Mage is more geared for GCD healing (with a system in place to reward GCD healing) and will lean on that aspect more, while Astrologian has a lot of oGCDs but they're weak and will need to utilize close to their full kit for the same effect.

Your mileage with oGCD healing will vary; if the team is poorly coordinated or making mistakes you will need to rely on those GCD heals more often and should probably save oGCDs for mistakes. However, coordinated teams, especially between the co-healers, can minimize GCD healing and use those GCDs for damage.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

So wait for all the people saying I should put more focus on using my OCDs; if using them is the focus of my kit and my GCDs are my emergency/damage buttons, how is healing harder? Cause I've seen people say that last expansion you could get away with doing the same thing to the point you didn't even need to cast a cure spell.

This is also seems built around the idea that nothing will go wrong with the other players. I'd rather hold onto something for 5 minutes and use it when it's helpful rather than throwing it out each time it's off CD and only getting a minor effect out of it.

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We're not saying to just fire it off on cooldown when the tank is barely missing any HP, sheesh. Nor are we saying that you'll never need to use a GCD on healing (Big pulls require GCD heals, as do emergencies). Rather, it's that you have your priorities backwards.

Let's say the tank has just dropped to a level where they could use some healing. Instead of spending MP and a GCD on Cure II, you could just use Tetragrammaton instead. "But what if there's an emergency?" you might ask? Well, that's when you use Cure II. The instant cast is nice, but it's rarely ever a life or death situation. If there's not enough time between the two hits for Cure, they likely A) Screwed up enough that they deserve to die and B) will likely die regardless of your intervention. You'll do far more to keep the party alive by saving your MP and GCDs for either making the fight end sooner.

Your oGCDs are your bread and butter. You use them FIRST. If you do not have an oGCD available for the situation, THEN you reach for your GCD heals. Not the other way around. This isn't even a DPS versus Pure Healer debate issue, even from a pure healing standpoint you want to do this because if the situation is truly dire enough that you need to spend all your focus on healing, this saves your MP for things your oGCDs cannot do, like mass healing over a short period of time or raising.

I don't know about healing as i don't have any higher then 52.. but leveling my breako on two characters I noticed a decent percent of things nearly killing me almost all the time. I use my CDs and don't stand in aoes but they hit HARD. I've seen more wipes then I ever seen before. I think shadows is a tiny bit harder but it could be gear.. but I noticed.. I noticed HARD. There is a difference.. if you don't feel it... I feel like you're only running with your awesome friends. And I'm jealous... -Hyo can you heal for me T.T - -- joking but yeah--.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

I mean the fight is the same yes, Raid Wide Damage at 30 seconds into the fight. But I can't predict both my fellow players and ping, so I tend hold my panic buttons close and use more usual cures and heals so I can quickly fall back on the oGCDs if things go south. Now to people that know the fight or fully trust their groups to NOT mess up, yeah you can probably get away with it. Don't expect every healer to fall into that category though or end up calling them a bad player if they can't. Not saying you are but I've seen people pull that card a few times here and elsewhere over some really general stuff.

That said, I'm in the camp of at least throwing out a Dot or two if you have them. Yes providing DPS can help the fight go faster and cause less healing but at the same time didn't the devs say they aren't accounting for Healer damage anymore or is that old info/rumor?

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This is what I do
I run DF 99%of time, I just have to be caution and have emergency button available 100% of time throughout the fight. Especially my AST healing potency have been chop to lowest ground. There are far too many situations either someone in my party suddenly screw up or love to be a lone wolf staying away from the group. In some more low level content when everyone is clearly over gear I can understand the utilised oGCD heal. However, in those raid which everyone are wearing minimum ilv required. The higher potency no cast oGCD heal safe me a lot of time in emergency

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Originally Posted by Zoberraz

Um, hi everyone! I'm very apprehensively posting this. I kind of expect to get verbally mauled for it.

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Hi there,

I feel you here, I really do. I play my healing class mainly for the roulette bonuses it gives out and don't really heal Savage contents with her. I manage all SB contents just fine including all the chain pulls the tanks could think of.

One thing I do notice with the increasing amount of new tanks this expansion is that majority of them somehow forgot that their Defensive CDs exist. They either save it for the bosses, or just expect you to blow your CD to keep them alive.

Honestly, every time I encounter these types of tanks in dungeons now, I just leave and eat the 30 minutes penalty. Our queue is instant enough that no bad tanks are worth the headache.

Hang in there. I think once the WoW refugees leave and everyone is geared up again, it should be normalized. In the mean time, it might be worthwhile just to hang up your cane for now and take a break from healing.

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

I don't, but I can go make one - which might not be fair as I'm no longer levelling up. Having said that, Ravel was still a case of triple-pulling up to 1st boss, triple pulling the bat-groups before second boss, and double-pulling everything else (which has unavoidable breaks). You most certainly will be spamming Holy all day, but bear in mind that both the Tank & DPS determine how much you can do this before heals are required. Given it's a levelling dungeon with a lot of people likely just wearing shreds of gear from the previous dungeon, you will often get relatively squishy tanks and/or DPS being lower than usual, which means you can only spam Holy so much before your weaving is expended and you are potentially forced into CureII spam. In short, if a mega-pull is not dead by the time Asylum, Temperance, Tetra, Benedict, and all your lilies have been used, you're left with good ole Cure spam. All of which is determined by the Tank/DPS more than the Healer.

Once you reach the higher dungeons (with less frequency of such situations and with players often on a more even gear-keel), you then realize just how much freedom you truly have. I could head to Amaurot right now and use the 2nd boss as an example seeing as it's a glorified trash-fight with an abundance of player-target mobs that can't be tanked and adds that can't be stunned, yet it doesn't matter. Holy for days with the odd Rapture in between, possibly a MedII if you want to be lazy. Failing that, the big triple-pack at the very start of Akademia.

Honestly, no dungeon in SHB provided me with any kind of issue, other than those provided by paper tanks or by DPS trying to slap mobs with a wet fish. Even then, Holy is still the most pressed button. As Urth said, it has a lot to do with understanding the dungeon as well as a few niche playstyle factors and understanding limits.

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While I can't make a video, I can second this from a Sch's perspective. Once I got familiar with the Shadowbringers changes and got appropriately geared up I can pretty much spam Art of War on any pull, using mainly my oGCD's and fairy to cover the heals with a pre or mid pull Adlo. If I have to back off the Art of War's early its usually because the tank is either drastically under geared and/or not using their cool downs causing their hp to yo-yo, or the pull is dragging on too long due to poor dps output. I might back off towards the end of the fight to try and get an aetherflow refresh off prior to the next fight, thanks to no longer being able to use it out of combat, but that is a different unrelated issue.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I don't know, this is like every trash pull was designed based on running to the wall on the first pull of Bardam's. I think this is definitely worse than it's ever been.

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I had zero issue keeping tanks that were doing wall to wall pulls in every dungeon from 70-80 on scholar.

WHM definitely has the easiest time keeping groups alive through large consistent damage. This honestly sounds more like someone being inexperienced. Nothing about healing dungeons from 70-80 has been any harder than how it always is at the beginning of a expansion.

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Originally Posted by Zoberraz

Healing since Shadowbringer is just so difficult!
But now, it just feels so grueling! There's this sense of difficulty that makes encountering a single group of enemies rather painstaking; Divine Benison and regen on the tank, drop assylum and then I try to Aero the four enemies. After 2 Aero cast, my tank is at half-health and I go "whoa" and try to double-time my heals on him. That's... 6 seconds and suddenly we're in trouble. Then I heal him - and I do have the tools to heal him - but the urgency of it is startling.

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Regarding the bold:
Working as intended. This is how healing should be.
Frankly put: esp as a WHM, healing did not change in difficulty compared to SB or HW. Leveling dungeons always hit harder than experts in the end. Most people forget that over the course of an expansion, esp if they only see the experts in a totally overgeared state wearing tome gear of the previous patch, essentially being +30 ilv above the recommended requirement (and subsequently tuning target of the content).

It is quite normal to only get 3-4 DPS casts out before the tank needs healing unless you are in your 6s Holy stun window.

I healed every dungeon comfortably in ilv 400 Stormblood gear, except foe the last one, since I already had the 430 class gear.

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Originally Posted by Azeriel

Hang in there. I think once the WoW refugees leave and everyone is geared up again, it should be normalized. In the mean time, it might be worthwhile just to hang up your cane for now and take a break from healing.

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Or just learn how to heal. Yeah incompetent "IMMA DO WALL TO WALL ... CD what's that, can I eat it?!" tanks are a bit annoying, I grant you that.
But there is nothing out there in dungeons that a WHM cannot manage.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Regarding the bold:
Working as intended. This is how healing should be.
Frankly put: esp as a WHM, healing did not change in difficulty compared to SB or HW. Leveling dungeons always hit harder than experts in the end. Most people forget that over the course of an expansion, esp if they only see the experts in a totally overgeared state wearing tome gear of the previous patch, essentially being +30 ilv above the recommended requirement (and subsequently tuning target of the content).

It is quite normal to only get 3-4 DPS casts out before the tank needs healing unless you are in your 6s Holy stun window.

I healed every dungeon comfortably in ilv 400 Stormblood gear, except foe the last one, since I already had the 430 class gear.

Or just learn how to heal. Yeah incompetent "IMMA DO WALL TO WALL ... CD what's that, can I eat it?!" tanks are a bit annoying, I grant you that.
But there is nothing out there in dungeons that a WHM cannot manage.

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I disagree but it's only based on my encounters with healers in the leveling dungeons. 9 times out of 10 I'm the last one alive and I'm a monk. I seriously think the dungeons actually DO hit harder. I've seen it so many times since the start. Tanks going down so fast, hell MY tank gets hit hard and I use my CDs, upgrade my gear etc etc and I STILL damn well almost die. Heals are weaker and it shows. I might just have ran with nothing but shitty healers too.. but that's ALOT of shitty healers then.