Giving back scholar dps skills?

I feel a lot of Tank and DPS mains lose track why Scholar feels so bad to play now. Imagine a Black Mage with Astral Ice potency cut by more than half, and losing Manafont entirely. That is what the SCH changes boil down to, our Job punishes us for taking advantage of our entire kit, which includes dealing damage.

Just maintaining Bio drains almost more MP than Aetherflow can restore, which mind you is already just a pitiful 1k MP every 60 seconds. If you add Ruin and Adloquium to that you're well in a range where you'd need at least double that MP regeneration just to break even. By giving us back an Energy Drain equivalent, let's call it 'Manafocus' that grants us an additional 10% MP at the cost of one Aetherflow stack, we could trade in healing potency to sustain our MP better, which in turn gives us more usage of Adloquium and we can assist as a tertiary DPS even if it's as simple as using Bio and Ruin between healing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Good thing art of war is instant and sch also has a crap ton of ogcd healing. It's almost like that was the strength of AoW and as much as the extra mp cost hurts, was intended to balance that strength against? I've done a few dungeons where I would weave lustrates between AoW spamming to keep the tank up.

---

I doubt it was intended. It's just instant because aura blast is instant. Like always they put the minimum effort into healers, so they instead of making a new animation, they just reused an animation from a PVP ability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ariane

I doubt it was intended. It's just instant because aura blast is instant. Like always they put the minimum effort into healers, so they instead of making a new animation, they just reused an animation from a PVP ability.

---

It feels like it had more thought put into it then Miasma II. At least it gives sch aoe damage without usurping another skills viability as a weaving tool.

The only problem with ruin II as weaving is that, unless you're weaving in 2 abilities, or have to move across the map, it is better to just clip broil. AoW is literally only useful in AoE situations, Miasma II had uses in single target situations, but it wasn't overly broken because it had a huge MP costs, use it too much and you could easily screw yourself over. Ruin II is still insanely situational, sure, it's better, but still not the end all, be all weaving tool they want us to think it is.

It's kinda funny, all i miss is energy drain, and i prefered miasma 2 to the new aoe, but other than that scholar still has by far the most buttons out of all my jobs, so it's still fun, as long as i'm not at low level content where damage is too low and i just press 1/2 while the fairy keeps everyone up

Only 3 things i feel need to happen:
Aetherflow needs to be useable outside combat again, if they don't add energy drain back this change was 100% pointless, having extra healing at the start of the fight never matters
Energy drain back, it feels bad to have to dump stacks on over healing, if not this, then i would like to see a OGCD Shield that uses our aetherflow added, since thats not overhealing
Last, art of war needs to cost 600, it's instant unlike whm/ast's aoe, and it costs more, so our MP gets drained way too fast

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyumimi

Just maintaining Bio drains almost more MP than Aetherflow can restore, which mind you is already just a pitiful 1k MP every 60 seconds. If you add Ruin and Adloquium to that you're well in a range where you'd need at least double that MP regeneration just to break even. By giving us back an Energy Drain equivalent, let's call it 'Manafocus' that grants us an additional 10% MP at the cost of one Aetherflow stack, we could trade in healing potency to sustain our MP better, which in turn gives us more usage of Adloquium and we can assist as a tertiary DPS even if it's as simple as using Bio and Ruin between healing.

---

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.

---

I won't be arguing about the real topic here, which is miasma II vs AoW, but things have to be put back into their real context.
When we had Miasma II, we also had aetheflow traits and energy drain, which allowed us more flexibility with our mp managment, which is not the case right now. (+ the fact that the fairy were a bit more stronger)

Also, loosing that flexibility is something that hurt the entire design of scholar with its mp capacity. We never play with the same group, and sadly, precisely on an expansion launch, you'll have to heal with a lot of dps who barely do damage even on aoe situation. pug is pug. If a pull take too much time, rip your mana. It happened before, but your AF was every 45s with some energy drain at our disposal if needeed, and dissipation as well to gain another 3 AF stacks and AF at 30s.

+ like what you say, refresh and mana shift.

+ tanks loose some defensive CD as well, like convalescence for example and such. Which might require sometimes more healing outside of our oGCD, even if we are plenty effective with those right now.

A lot of things have to be considered and i even think I forget some.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KDSilver

I won't be arguing about the real topic here, which is miasma II vs AoW, but things have to be put back into their real context.
When we had Miasma II, we also had aetheflow traits and energy drain, which allowed us more flexibility with our mp managment, which is not the case right now. (+ the fact that the fairy were a bit more stronger)

Also, loosing that flexibility is something that hurt the entire design of scholar with its mp capacity. We never play with the same group, and sadly, precisely on an expansion launch, you'll have to heal with a lot of dps who barely do damage even on aoe situation. pug is pug. If a pull take too much time, rip your mana. It happened before, but your AF was every 45s with some energy drain at our disposal if needeed, and dissipation as well to gain another 3 AF stacks and AF at 30s.

+ like what you say, refresh and mana shift.

+ tanks loose some defensive CD as well, like convalescence for example and such. Which might require sometimes more healing outside of our oGCD, even if we are plenty effective with those right now.

A lot of things have to be considered and i even think I forget some.

---

Did I not specifically mention the context right below that? Do you not understand that your MP Regen now is pretty much the same as it was in Stormblood?

Let me put it in another perspective... Say that, in Stormblood, you had your own personal Manashift and Refresh beach. You spent 1 aetherflow stack on ED per minute. You kept the other 3 aetherflow stacks for healing. The MP regen you had in that situation is essentially identical to the MP regen you have now.

Scale an ability bar to 200%, put Lucid Dreaming on it and slap it in the middle of your screen. Every time you see it off cooldown, click it. I guarantee you that you will feel just as comfortable as you did in Stormblood, MP-wise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyumimi

I feel a lot of Tank and DPS mains lose track why Scholar feels so bad to play now. Imagine a Black Mage with Astral Ice potency cut by more than half, and losing Manafont entirely. That is what the SCH changes boil down to, our Job punishes us for taking advantage of our entire kit, which includes dealing damage.

Just maintaining Bio drains almost more MP than Aetherflow can restore, which mind you is already just a pitiful 1k MP every 60 seconds. If you add Ruin and Adloquium to that you're well in a range where you'd need at least double that MP regeneration just to break even. By giving us back an Energy Drain equivalent, let's call it 'Manafocus' that grants us an additional 10% MP at the cost of one Aetherflow stack, we could trade in healing potency to sustain our MP better, which in turn gives us more usage of Adloquium and we can assist as a tertiary DPS even if it's as simple as using Bio and Ruin between healing.

---

Agreed, without Energy Drain, Aetherflow needs to go back to the old 20% that it was before. Energy Drain was the whole reason Aetherflow was nerfed to begin with.

Give us Energy Drain back and stop forcing us to be in combat for Aetherflow and I'll be OK (not good but OK). Though, as it stands right now I will probably be ditching my formerly favorite job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

---

You're, as far as I can tell, comparing Art of War spam to Miasma II spam.

Forgetting that, in addition to the higher regen (only 3%, but you mathed it out so I'd feel remiss in not mentioning it) PLUS the up to 19% from outside sources, PLUS the additional mana from Energy Drain, we had two additional forms of AoE in Stormblood that cost either very little (DoTs to use with Bane and the opportunity cost of no ED) or nothing (Shadow Flare).

So not only is AoW more expensive, but we regain less MP in general, we don't have Energy Drain, we don't have any other AoE tools, and we don't have the potential for two outside sources.

Meanwhile WHM kept Thin Air and even though Assize's MP regen was reduced, Holy also got reduced in cost. And WHM gained Misery.

I'd much rather trade AoW for Bane/Shadowflare back, to be honest. Holy's basically free on WHM right now even before Thin Air, and I don't have a problem with that so much as I do SCH's AoE option being both bad from a cost perspective and completely counter to the flavor we've had the past six years.

AST...well, Lightspeed Gravity's nice, but they could probably use a secondary MP mechanic too (roughly akin to Assize/Aetherflow).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TonberiScholar

You're, as far as I can tell, comparing Art of War spam to Miasma II spam.

Forgetting that, in addition to the higher regen (only 3%, but you mathed it out so I'd feel remiss in not mentioning it) PLUS the up to 19% from outside sources, PLUS the additional mana from Energy Drain, we had two additional forms of AoE in Stormblood that cost either very little (DoTs to use with Bane and the opportunity cost of no ED) or nothing (Shadow Flare).

So not only is AoW more expensive, but we regain less MP in general, we don't have Energy Drain, we don't have any other AoE tools, and we don't have the potential for two outside sources.

Meanwhile WHM kept Thin Air and even though Assize's MP regen was reduced, Holy also got reduced in cost. And WHM gained Misery.

I'd much rather trade AoW for Bane/Shadowflare back, to be honest. Holy's basically free on WHM right now even before Thin Air, and I don't have a problem with that so much as I do SCH's AoE option being both bad from a cost perspective and completely counter to the flavor we've had the past six years.

AST...well, Lightspeed Gravity's nice, but they could probably use a secondary MP mechanic too (roughly akin to Assize/Aetherflow).

---

Only the first paragraph is comparing AoW against Miasma II. The rest of the post is comparing MP regen. It is not "PLUS" the MP from energy drain. The 98% comes from using every single stack of Aetherflow on Energy Drain.

The only thing we are missing now is ~20% MP regen from Refresh and Mana Shift.

To put it another way. Suppose you saved three stacks of Aetherflow per minute for healing abilities (like we have now). This would cost you ~20% MP regen - which in Stormblood you could cover with Refresh and Manashift.

So from this perspective: If you saved 3 stacks of aetherflow every minute for healing (and only used the extra ones you would get from the Aetherflow trait on ED) AND you had your dedicated Refresh/Mana Shift slaves, then your MP Regen would have been essentially equivalent to what we have now. It's almost as if the developers didn't assign random numbers and cooldowns to the skills...

So, the problem is: People are not using Lucid Dreaming on cooldown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LariaKirin

The only thing we are missing now is ~20% MP regen from Refresh and Mana Shift.

---

This is the incorrect bit though.

We're also missing Bane and Shadowflare, and that's why Miasma II wasn't as much of an issue in Stormblood as Art of War is now.

Which, given SCH also doesn't have Thin Air or Lightspeed, is kind of a problem.

White Mage and Astrologian are, funny enough, in the position now (slightly lower burst AoE damage for better MP efficiency) that Scholar was from ARR to the end of Stormblood.

Having an AoE that's considerably more expensive for slightly more potency is a terrible tradeoff, which is (presumably) why Gravity and Holy had their MP costs lowered.

Also (at least from what they've said), one of the root causes behind removing TP.

So it's not so much "SCH jealousy" as it is "one set of design decisions is completely at odds with the rest of the ones they made and the reasons they stated".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

---

Your post is pretty misguided, you can't compare mp costs the way that you do. Listing lucid dreaming as only 19% mp per minute is pretty misleading. I know what you did. You took the total regen of lucid dreaming and divided it by two to get a per minute regen, right? It doesn't work like that. What if I only get to use lucid dreaming before we reach the boss? Then the old lucid dreaming is vastly superior. Under the new aetherflow system you're forced to basically wast 1000 mp straight away as the tank is pulling. I guess you could hold it, but then you're wasting the cooldown on aetherflow. We also get less out of combat mp ticks, because we need to hit something asap due to the new aetherflow mechanics as well as eos being trigger happy with the new instant cast embrace. Lastly I could safely spam miasma 2 down to 0 mp in stormblood, because I knew I had energy drain to fall back on. Right now I'll stop using art of war at around 1.5k mp, because if if you run out of mp without lucid there are no other options. All of this leads up to one point though: in stormblood I could spam miasma 2 until stuff was dead. Right now, I cannot spam art of war until stuff is dead. I can assure you that I am using lucid dreaming properly. Either you are consistently getting matched with people who do signifincaly more dps than the people I get matched with, or you are grossly exaggerating (be it intentional or not) some of the points that you made. I'm much more inclined to believe that it is the latter.

Bane doesn't really feel necessary anymore now that we have just one super dot to me.
Art of War is better than Miasma 2 in a filler AoE situation, it was always awkward that you wanted to spam Miasma 2 for the initial damage instead of actually using the dot, so I like that we have a new skill that just frontloads the damage now.
Biolysis is so strong it's like two dots in one so I don't mind not having miasma

I just want Energy Drain back. Or if I can't have it back, then something to spend excess aetherflows on. It's so weird having to waste lustrates just to expend the resource now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Miasma II vs AoW
I find the complaints about AoW funny, considering it costs you 8% of your MP pool and Miasma II used to cost ~9.3%. Running out of MP due to AoW spam is a problem, but the same thing wasn't a problem with Miasma II? I can only assume most complains about this stem from the fact that WHM/AST have low costs on their AoE. Jealousy, basically.



At 1100 Piety you regen an extra 50 MP per tick. This is easily reachable and practically unavoidable at level 80. This is what you get per minute:
- 10% from Aetherflow
- 35% from Lucid Dreaming
- 50% from passive regen
You are restoring 95% of your MP pool per minute.

In Stormblood:
- 12.5% from Aetherflow
- ~19% from Lucid Dreaming
- 40% from passive regen
- up to 26% from ED (up to 4 per minute)
You were restoring ~98% of your MP pool per minute (if using only ED).

So what did you have extra in Stormblood?
- ~11% from Refresh
- ~8% from Mana Shift

What do you have extra in Shadowbringers?
- Significantly more OGCD options that have zero MP cost


So what is the issue? People are not mashing their Lucid Dreaming button on cooldown.

---

Okay, so you're comparing Miasma II vs Art of War spam and then claiming that our mp is the same. That is so misguided. You cannot talk about sb SCH aoe damage without adding how Shadowflare (low mp cost) and bane (aether stack) did damage if we did not have the mp to aoe or if we had to heal. I also don't see you mentioning quickened aether flow either. Like you want to say that we have better mp management to aoe now, but then in the same breath don't mention half of stormbloods kit. That's really disingenuous at best. Not to mention if I needed mp energy drain was there. You know, that skill half the people are mourning the loss of in this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lagomorph

Your post is pretty misguided, you can't compare mp costs the way that you do. Listing lucid dreaming as only 19% mp per minute is pretty misleading. I know what you did. You took the total regen of lucid dreaming and divided it by two to get a per minute regen, right? It doesn't work like that. What if I only get to use lucid dreaming before we reach the boss? Then the old lucid dreaming is vastly superior. Under the new aetherflow system you're forced to basically wast 1000 mp straight away as the tank is pulling. I guess you could hold it, but then you're wasting the cooldown on aetherflow. We also get less out of combat mp ticks, because we need to hit something asap due to the new aetherflow mechanics as well as eos being trigger happy with the new instant cast embrace. Lastly I could safely spam miasma 2 down to 0 mp in stormblood, because I knew I had energy drain to fall back on. Right now I'll stop using art of war at around 1.5k mp, because if if you run out of mp without lucid there are no other options. All of this leads up to one point though: in stormblood I could spam miasma 2 until stuff was dead. Right now, I cannot spam art of war until stuff is dead. I can assure you that I am using lucid dreaming properly. Either you are consistently getting matched with people who do signifincaly more dps than the people I get matched with, or you are grossly exaggerating (be it intentional or not) some of the points that you made. I'm much more inclined to believe that it is the latter.

---

This is part of it. The way AF spreads across dungeons means we don’t benefit from it as much as we did in sb (where the timer aligned almost perfectly with trash pulls). Same goes with the regen we got from Ed which we could time ourselves. It also doesn’t take into account the fact we had AF out of combat and bane which meant that we could spend a lot of the pull time in natural regen instead of in combat (casting dots on mobs as we run). I’ve said this before and will say it again. I have 2.2k piety today and can’t spam AoW as much as I did miasma II when I had 300 piety.

Next to that mana in raid context seems pretty endless where I used to struggle as soon as I moved away from my planned rotation. The way we regen mana is just no longer spreading well for dungeon content and AoW usage. It only works out if you have decent party dps.
We can hope that the gearing race will tend towards this but I wouldn’t bet my money on it given how lackluster DF party was in sb.

Scholar needed to be nerfed. Down vote all you want, but the truth is they had too much going. Simply put they were more than overpowered regardless of what the people who are yelling the hardest will have you believe. I have yet to really play with Sch changes since my main is 80 Whm and I am now leveling up Astro, but I will be seeing how Sch goes soon after Astro is 80. I don't understand why you call Sch boring. Healing is boring to a lot of people, but to me it's fun. Either you are a healer or you are not. I think to many people jumped on the Sch bandwagon because they felt like DPS casters with strong healing options. Now they feel like healers and you are expected to heal. Imagine that. Sch will be in a good place this xpac. And people who enjoying healing will heal, and those DPS wannabes will find something else.

Not sure why all the whining, we still have weaving to keep healing and dps as efficient as possible. We lost three dps skills when were not dps. Are we boring to solo with now? I don't know what game you were playing but we were boring before that. In 8mans it was irrelevant outside of dps racing. If any of you think se cares about your epeens on fflogs your wrong. I am not even going to need to compare numbers here. Dps till half mana pop lucid, this is not rocket science. Most pulls die by that point in my experience and I have never run out of mana doing any of the new content. The only real complaint I have is aetherflow being locked to combat and something other then heals to blow aetherflow on to build the fairy gauge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tharnor

I don't know what game you were playing but we were boring before that.

---

Yeah see this is one of the arguments I've seen the last several expansions that just blows my mind. "Your favorite job was boring before, so what are you complaining about?" God forbid people want their favorite job aesthetic to be fun, and maybe they didn't like being unfun before either? Is this really rocket science?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Semirhage

Yeah see this is one of the arguments I've seen the last several expansions that just blows my mind. "Your favorite job was boring before, so what are you complaining about?" God forbid people want their favorite job aesthetic to be fun, and maybe they didn't like being unfun before either? Is this really rocket science?

---

Na that was referring to the people that make it sound like the sky is falling because we do less dps, with less to do to maintain it. I am all for a more interesting way to do damage and/or other ways to contribute when not healing. But talking like the old way was some shining bastion of awesomeness is just an outright lie.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tharnor

Not sure why all the whining, we still have weaving to keep healing and dps as efficient as possible. We lost three dps skills when were not dps. Are we boring to solo with now? I don't know what game you were playing but we were boring before that. In 8mans it was irrelevant outside of dps racing.

---

Spoken like someone who never played HW's Scholar to a high level I assume? =(

Whilst yes, SB's SCH DPS toolkit lacked a little, but that doesn't mean that the trend for regressive design in healers is in anyway acceptable.

I never quite understood their (SE's) reasoning for making us heal more often than dpsing. If they wanted us to go that route, they should have just lowered our healing potencies. If we healed for less, we would have to spend time healing more often to get a similar result. They didn't have to dumb down our dps toolkit to the bare-bones essentials.

Just give us a way to dump excess aetherflow and we should be fine. The class still has its core gameplay flow you just arent juggling 5-8 buttons to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Just give us a way to dump excess aetherflow and we should be fine. The class still has its core gameplay flow you just arent juggling 5-8 buttons to do it.

---

This. At the very least let people dump excess aetherflow.

They should have never let SCH and AST sit and be blatantly OP for this long. Now that it's time to actually balance them it feels like crap, when in reality this is how WHM felt for us for the past 4 years. Like we're lacking in a lot of things and have a lot of spells that doesn't make any sense.

At this point they can't just give DPS back to healers. WHM pDPS is very high but it has no utility, it needs to keep this DPS difference or we'll be right back where we started where utility jobs does more DPS than non utility.

I've played very little SCH but it fell extremely powerful when it comes to survivability. I am only level 54 but I can last for days without running out of MP, mowing down enemies slowly but surely. I actually switch to SCH when I have quest that I found difficult to do on other class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

They should have never let SCH and AST sit and be blatantly OP for this long. Now that it's time to actually balance them it feels like crap, when in reality this is how WHM felt for us for the past 4 years. Like we're lacking in a lot of things and have a lot of spells that doesn't make any sense.

At this point they can't just give DPS back to healers. WHM pDPS is very high but it has no utility, it needs to keep this DPS difference or we'll be right back where we started where utility jobs does more DPS than non utility.

---

You're kinda missing the entire point of this thread, and the point of people's complaints in general. Very few people don't want sch and ast to be buffed to the point of being overpowered again. What people primarily want is a class that is fun and engaging to play. They want a class that feels good. This is not synonymous with being powerful. They could nerf sch to be a lot weaker than it is right now, but if they made the class fun again I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be happy. Also on another note, I would be extremely shocked if SE let white mages continue to do more damage than tanks. Remember how in stormblood stone IV was nerfed from 260 to 250 potency when whm already was kind of weak? If SE tries to balance whm at a high-end raiding level (giving them enough personal dps to compete with ast and sch raid dps), then they will generally be too strong in a casual environment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Just give us a way to dump excess aetherflow and we should be fine. The class still has its core gameplay flow you just arent juggling 5-8 buttons to do it.

---

That's exactly the problem though, people WANT to hit more than 1 button. I'd be perfectly happy if they cut broils damage if it meant I could have another dot, and if they had to do it again to give me energy drain, etc. I want more to do, it is so boring in dungeons right now when all I do is spam broil/art of war. Do any content before ShB and you could play it on an Atari controller and be fine, and that's pathetic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lagomorph

You're kinda missing the entire point of this thread, and the point of people's complaints in general. Very few people don't want sch and ast to be buffed to the point of being overpowered again. What people primarily want is a class that is fun and engaging to play. They want a class that feels good. This is not synonymous with being powerful. They could nerf sch to be a lot weaker than it is right now, but if they made the class fun again I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be happy. Also on another note, I would be extremely shocked if SE let white mages continue to do more damage than tanks. Remember how in stormblood stone IV was nerfed from 260 to 250 potency when whm already was kind of weak? If SE tries to balance whm at a high-end raiding level (giving them enough personal dps to compete with ast and sch raid dps), then they will generally be too strong in a casual environment.

---

Exactly this. I don't think enough people understand that a lot of people's problem with SCH right now isn't "my deeps isn't high enough", give broil a potency of 10,000 and it wouldn't fix the issue. Our problem is that we're not given enough to do. All content in ShB so far has literally had you spam 1 button 90% of the time. I said it earlier, but I'm okay with lower potencies on the attacks I do have if it means I can have more attacks to use and something to rotate through.

I actually don't mind it as it is atm minus the loss of Bane ( wtf even is Art of War??? ).
With that said tho I definitely wouldn't mind another one or two buttons like WHM.

Funnily enough SCH ended up having too few buttons and SMN ended up having too many and feels bloated imo xD.
I sorta felt like they went in the opposite directions in this regard with the two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

At this point they can't just give DPS back to healers. WHM pDPS is very high but it has no utility, it needs to keep this DPS difference or we'll be right back where we started where utility jobs does more DPS than non utility.

---

Orrr they could make WHM DPS higher.

And they could keep buffing healer DPS and potencies every patch until healers proliferate proportionate to the demand for them.