Sanity check - crafting job skip potions?

NO! You will feel the struggle of crafting and inventory management and you will like it! :D

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

As omni crafter goes without saying there is stuff that will be very hard to craft if not impossible without cross classes skills. The Fying chair that weavers can make is one that comes to mind has its Difficulty is 6k+ crafting that without cross class abilities, means you would need higher stats and gear then a Omni to successfully craft it.

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I completely agree with you, so please do not take my post the wrong way.

The flying chair is an alchemy craft.

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Originally Posted by CraftOs

The amount of lazy people who want DoH/DoL jobs to be basically “paid off” without putting in any effort is astounding. Really doubt SE will put this in the game.

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It's not exactly laziness when you look at the absolute amount of time and effort it takes to catch up if you haven't done any crafting and you're sitting at level 70 (soon to be level 80) and want to start being able to get leveled and geared to be able to craft. It doesn't have to be a full level up on everything, even just to level 50 so you can start doing moogle quests and custom deliveries would be enough to help people catch up without "ruining the economy" as some people are suggesting (personally I think people are being a bit too doomsday thinking that, and side with the idea that more crafters means a more vibrant market)

The real effort to making the high end items people are selling still means you have to farm Tomestones, scrips, and timed gathering nodes, so just being leveled on crafting won't automatically tank any market.

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Originally Posted by CraftOs

Also, what does this have to do with our conversation? Okay, look. I’ve been a crafter since 2.0. I enjoy making gear prices low so people can afford it, I enjoy crafting..make around 300 pieces of gear a day because I work from home, ...!

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Nifty number - if that 300 is all ILVL 340 DoH/L or all ILVL 380 DOM/W, or some mix - that's impressive. I struggle to make a tenth of that on a daily basis, macros and all. The cool part is, production of that magnitude means I've definitely missed something along the way, which means there's a ton more to learn! Opens the recipe books...

Shooter

No thanks.

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Originally Posted by CraftOs

Also, what does this have to do with our conversation? Okay, look. I’ve been a crafter since 2.0. I enjoy making gear prices low so people can afford it, I enjoy crafting..make around 300 pieces of gear a day because I work from home, I love World Visit even though many high end crafters hate it due to lower prices. I even have a lot of Gil that I share with friends. Even purchased Large Plots for friends in the past due to me being “rich”.

Smaller profit margins are nothing. I enjoy crafting because it’s fun. What I dislike about jump potions for crafters, is that it will immediately undermine everyone’s hustle and struggle to get to where they are. It also greatly benefits RMT accounts as I’ve said numerous times..

Please leave out your personal feelings about high end crafters and be objective here! Come on!

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There is no "hustle and struggle". We have Moogle and Namazu quests. Those alone guarantee you can get max level in no time. That's why the "you should have to work for it" argument is invalid, because the current situation is you most definitely do not have to work for it.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

There is no "hustle and struggle". We have Moogle and Namazu quests. Those alone guarantee you can get max level in no time. That's why the "you should have to work for it" argument is invalid, because the current situation is you most definitely do not have to work for it.

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I wish they'd reduce the exp gain from these and they'd give some job progression requirement to actually do a few crafts from the log, but that's a completely different area of discussion which I already believe people don't like.

The reason why it would be a bad idea is imagine the effect on gatherers that sell mats to levelling crafters. Granted yes there are rmt that gather a lot to make gil but there are a lot of players as well that make gil from gathering and selling mats to crafters.

Gathering and crafting are intertwined quite closely in the levelling process and so if jump potions were allowed, it could cause that entire market to evaporate. While yes rmt could make less by gathering, it would also make gil more difficult for newbie players that also make money selling gathered mats.

Chances are the number of DoL/H bots would explode if they ever offered level skips for them.

I see plenty enough as is when people have to actually level them and money is clearly no object to some of their owners (Possibly because they're involved in RMT themselves...) when they're oft running multiple bots simultaneously and some even Fantasia/name change them just for aesthetics.

I dont see why not. Even if they'd jump to the max current level they'd barely affect the high end market unless they put in effort and money for gear, and we're not even considering the missing omni crafter skills.

Hell, I have half my crafters on 70 (and the rest in progress) and I can only make some small pocket change due to laziness and lack of gear.

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

I dont see why not. Even if they'd jump to the max current level they'd barely affect the high end market unless they put in effort and money for gear, and we're not even considering the missing omni crafter skills.

Hell, I have half my crafters on 70 (and the rest in progress) and I can only make some small pocket change due to laziness and lack of gear.

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They could boost to be omnicrafter so they would not be missing skills. If it were to be limited to one doh/dol for perpetuity then that would be one thing, but a free for all? Nope.

Yeah hell no. Crafting is the only thing still sacred in this game. Don't think RMT would take advantage of this like others stated, but I'm more worried about what the average player would do with this. We'd get an influx of players with high lvl crafters saturating the market.

Plus it took forever to get all crafters to 70. Couldn't imagine someone just being able to buy their way up there. It's one thing with battle classes where they exist so players can play the new expansion story content.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

They exist in other versions of the game in the east, so I don't see why not.

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I was going to say, I'm pretty sure the Korean and Chinese versions have the Crafter/Gatherer Jump Potions. They also have the ability to glamour their craft/gather only gear to war/magic jobs... but that is another thread entirely.

I am unsure how these potions would effect the economy. But to all the people who are like "If I had to level them you should too" the same exact thing could be said for people who use story or level jump potions currently. Or "But there's Moogle and Namau" ok well we also have "Potd and HoH" yet we still have potions for the lazy.

I'm not saying we should have craft/gather jump potions, I just think people should have a more valid reason why we shouldn't aside from "Well I had to level".

Man, crafters are saltier than WHM when the Lilies were revealed. "Crafting is sacred", " but muh markets". World didn't end because of the combat leveling potions, it won't end because crafters and gatherers get them too.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Man, crafters are saltier than WHM when the Lilies were revealed. "Crafting is sacred", " but muh markets". World didn't end because of the combat leveling potions, it won't end because crafters and gatherers get them too.

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You seem to not understand the economical differences between DoH/DoL VS DoW/DoM. One has economic value, one doesn’t. Also, if potions are released, good, more competition for me. I love a good market board fight. :). However, what bugs me are the negative effects it has on the economy, gatherers, and even new players.

I just don’t see this happening. I believe there’s a reason the Asian servers have it, and NA/EU don’t.

While we're at it, can I please buy a potion that will give me all the horses, birds and music scrolls from extreme primals.

I'll wait until Shadowbringers drops before I ask for the dog mounts :D

Making Jump potions for crafting would be defacto P2W.

Thats a touch hyperbolic but consider a few factors. The crafters in the game are a lot more influential on the economy and gil acquisition in the game. This is because of 3 factors - Crafted Gear for DoW/DoM, consumables, and Glamour/Housing gear. The levels 1-50 exist to be the 'gate' which you have to progress through to start actually making money with your crafters in the least bit. If you can bypass that gate by just buying a jump pot, you are essentially saying you should have easier access to enhanced gil, item, and gear acquisition based on real world cash. People who have more expendable real world income will have an easier time making gil and clearing content. Not to say there isnt some of that already with extra retainers, but retainers are somewhat RNG based and are limited by your own character progression. Meaning, you cant send a retainer out to do things that are above the levels of your own character, regardless of whether it's DoM/W or DoL.

"But what about beast tribes!"

You still have to level through the 1-50 content, and even with beast tribes, those arent implemented until fairly mid to late into the xpac and do act as a means to start allowing some level of catch up to max level. You can pretty much see them as the devs balancing the time it takes to level a max level crafter by making it easier after the 1-50 gate. You still need the investment of time and effort though for 1-50. Jump potions would make getting max level crafting/gather to easy, start messing with the econ, and create a system where having more real world cash makes it easier for you. You want to argue botting, then there's no point for jump potions. If youre gonna cheat to 70, then why would you even spend money on a jump potion in the first place?

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Originally Posted by JowyAtreides

While we're at it, can I please buy a potion that will give me all the horses, birds and music scrolls from extreme primals.

I'll wait until Shadowbringers drops before I ask for the dog mounts :D

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lol, that was hilarious! Okay, my turn. :) Let’s have:
* Raid potions. All raids beaten.
* Mount potions, all mounts up to a certain point will automatically be yours!
* Gil potion, instantly receive 10 Million Gil per potion!

See, I can be lazy too, haha. :P

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The only real issue here is the leve allowance limit, which makes leveling crafting jobs a bigger pain than it really needs to be

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Between GC turnins, Leves, Beast Tribes, and cheap/easy combines (lumber, thread/cloth, nugget/ingot, some potions, cul sub-combines) you can get to the collectable crafting stage with very little effort, and collectables are a fantastic way to level AND gear up at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Making Jump potions for crafting would be defacto P2W.

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Correction, p2w is already in the game. You wana talk about how it'd be bad for ppl to boost crafts? Open up your PF right now. What say you about the plethora of people selling 9-12s carrys for the literal best gear in the game available lol. And you can bet if you ain't got the gil they'll take your PayPal$$$ lmao.

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Originally Posted by supergiz

Don't think RMT would take advantage of this like others stated

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They already do, actually.

There are some players running bot-farming operations that are way too large (As in spanning multiple servers) for it to realistically be anything else with how useless gil is.

To be honest maybe I am missing something but I cannot help but think those that make the claim that leveling crafters to 70 takes a lot of time are being dishonest or simply mistake their chosen slow place as the norm. Sure leveling to 50 can be considered a slog but even then with so many methods of leveling crafters it is extremely quick, even more so if people use road to 60.

Realistically, I get my view differs from many but in my eyes simply see no difference from using in game wealth to advance through levels quicker versus using out of game currency.

In the ene getting the crafters to 70 is just one part of becoming a profitable crafter, leveling boosts at worst would make it so people selling lower level items like leve kits on the MB have more competition.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Making Jump potions for crafting would be defacto P2W.

Thats a touch hyperbolic but consider a few factors. The crafters in the game are a lot more influential on the economy and gil acquisition in the game. This is because of 3 factors - Crafted Gear for DoW/DoM, consumables, and Glamour/Housing gear. The levels 1-50 exist to be the 'gate' which you have to progress through to start actually making money with your crafters in the least bit. If you can bypass that gate by just buying a jump pot, you are essentially saying you should have easier access to enhanced gil, item, and gear acquisition based on real world cash. People who have more expendable real world income will have an easier time making gil and clearing content. Not to say there isnt some of that already with extra retainers, but retainers are somewhat RNG based and are limited by your own character progression. Meaning, you cant send a retainer out to do things that are above the levels of your own character, regardless of whether it's DoM/W or DoL.

"But what about beast tribes!"

You still have to level through the 1-50 content, and even with beast tribes, those arent implemented until fairly mid to late into the xpac and do act as a means to start allowing some level of catch up to max level. You can pretty much see them as the devs balancing the time it takes to level a max level crafter by making it easier after the 1-50 gate. You still need the investment of time and effort though for 1-50. Jump potions would make getting max level crafting/gather to easy, start messing with the econ, and create a system where having more real world cash makes it easier for you. You want to argue botting, then there's no point for jump potions. If youre gonna cheat to 70, then why would you even spend money on a jump potion in the first place?

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In what sense does 1-50 server as a gate when with 150k-300k gil (and enough leves) you can buy 1-60 & have it done in no time?

No. Never. We don't need that.

You can level up a crafter in maybe a couple a weeks or so if you do levequests and provide easy craftable HQ items. Beast Tribes (Ixiali, Moogle and Namazu) quests are a big help too.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Making Jump potions for crafting would be defacto P2W.

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And leveling/story skip pots weren't?

.. and when you say P2W .. win what exactly?

The money pile contest?

People can already straight out buy gil giving them access to all the things you're afraid of.

1-50 is only a gate if you start from scratch and have no resources. If these "bot"s you're afraid of wanted to be 50 crafting they could do it in a day with enough gil to buy mats OR maybe they just use another bot to farm all the necessaries and then use those mats to craft.

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Originally Posted by Adrameliya

No. Never. We don't need that.

You can level up a crafter in maybe a couple a weeks or so if you do levequests and provide easy craftable HQ items. Beast Tribes (Ixiali, Moogle and Namazu) quests are a big help too.

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I mean... sure we dont need it. But if someone wants it? Eh. It wouldn't crash the market, and if someone has the money to burn, its slightly more justifyable in my eyes than the DoW and story skip.

I do agree with the one per character limit (1 DoH 1 DoL), though not for reasons mentioned here. Burning enough money to go omni is an amount that I am not ok of even giving people the option to do.

And the crafting is "sacred" argument can go bite it. There are very few things in this game that I consider more unholy and backstabby than MB battles, pricing wars and flipping. And that includes Lalafel.

For all you people in support of crafting jump potions, it would be hypocritical if you didn't also support potions that got you all the mounts, all the minions, and everything else.

So where do you stop?

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Originally Posted by supergiz

For all you people in support of crafting jump potions, it would be hypocritical if you didn't also support potions that got you all the mounts, all the minions, and everything else.

So where do you stop?

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Quite the slippery slope there. Just because someone wants a shortcut to current-ish level content for their class doesn't mean they wish to skip the entire game. Just as if you're against jump pots that doesn't mean you want a version of the game that only lets you run content with gear that was available when it was released and at appropriate level.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Quite the slippery slope there. Just because someone wants a shortcut to current-ish level content for their class doesn't mean they wish to skip the entire game. Just as if you're against jump pots that doesn't mean you want a version of the game that only lets you run content with gear that was available when it was released and at appropriate level.

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See what you are saying but one could argue that the special mounts are not critical to the game. They are practically glamour items. Weapons and armor I could see but there's literally no point to mounts than to show off.

Might as well sell mounts on the cash shop after X period of time. Give the people who want bragging rights a few months to brag about it then give them to everyone else who wants to pay money for them. Same with minions. Also housing is not critical to the game. It's a complete luxury item. Why not sell house plots on the cash shop? 99% of the people in this game are botting to get those anyway.

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Originally Posted by supergiz

See what you are saying but one could argue that the special mounts are not critical to the game. They are practically glamour items. Weapons and armor I could see but there's literally no point to mounts than to show off.

Might as well sell mounts on the cash shop after X period of time. Give the people who want bragging rights a few months to brag about it then give them to everyone else who wants to pay money for them. Same with minions. Also housing is not critical to the game. It's a complete luxury item. Why not sell house plots on the cash shop? 99% of the people in this game are botting to get those anyway.

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Because throwing your hands up in the air and saying "well if you can take a shortcut here, you should be able to take a shortcut EVERYWHERE" is grossly oversimplifying the wants and needs of the game.
I'd personally be fine with some of the crazier time investment mounts being cash shopped because some people just don't have the time and would take literal years to achieve them. Also many of the mounts/minions aren't even really achievements.. just luck RNG drops.
But SE doesn't offer things on the cash shop that you can currently get through gameplay. So far that's their only unbroken rule.
Why would we ask for something that SE has NEVER done instead of asking for something they've already done?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Because throwing your hands up in the air and saying "well if you can take a shortcut here, you should be able to take a shortcut EVERYWHERE" is grossly oversimplifying the wants and needs of the game.
I'd personally be fine with some of the crazier time investment mounts being cash shopped because some people just don't have the time and would take literal years to achieve them. Also many of the mounts/minions aren't even really achievements.. just luck RNG drops.
But SE doesn't offer things on the cash shop that you can currently get through gameplay. So far that's their only unbroken rule.
Why would we ask for something that SE has NEVER done instead of asking for something they've already done?

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Correct me if I'm wrong but can't you get to lvl 60 through gameplay? Can't you get through the storyline up to SB through gameplay? Come to think of it can't you get your retainers up to lvl 60 through gameplay? Phial of fantasia? Also achievable through playing the game (they give one to you in a MSQ). The dyes, yep through gameplay.

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Originally Posted by supergiz

For all you people in support of crafting jump potions, it would be hypocritical if you didn't also support potions that got you all the mounts, all the minions, and everything else.

So where do you stop?

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I would argue that the leveling potions are a means to skip over subjectively boring content to get access to more interesting content, while mounts are an end goal that only provides some minor personal satisfaction of using the mount thereafter. One could argue that for some thats sort of the same, but thats my validation of it.

Also, you can already buy mounts in the store.

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Originally Posted by supergiz

Correct me if I'm wrong but can't you get to lvl 60 through gameplay? Can't you get through the storyline up to SB through gameplay? Come to think of it can't you get your retainers up to lvl 60 through gameplay? Phial of fantasia? Also achievable through playing the game (they give one to you in a MSQ). The dyes, yep through gameplay.

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I was speaking more items wise but you're right. you can get dyes and a singular phial of fantasia (both consumable) through gameplay Shall I revise my statement or can you extrapolate?

No please dont, the jumping potions for battle jobs are already bad in my eyes, no need to make every part of the game that easy.

SE already did hint that they may make the crafting jobs easier but in the end they are side content..and sometimes you have to put some work into that. Or what is next? A potion to get all TT cards, a potion to get all pets? Or all big fishes?

Crafting is not something you need to do the main attraction of the game, so why should it be possible?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

No please dont, the jumping potions for battle jobs are already bad in my eyes, no need to make every part of the game that easy.

SE already did hint that they may make the crafting jobs easier but in the end they are side content..and sometimes you have to put some work into that. Or what is next? A potion to get all TT cards, a potion to get all pets? Or all big fishes?

Crafting is not something you need to do the main attraction of the game, so why should it be possible?

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you also don't need to level more than one job to 70 , but apparently they've made it possible to buy more than 1 leveling pot.

It'd be nice if people would stop referring to crafting to 50 or even 60 as "work".. it's not hard or even complex. It's simply time into grinding.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

you also don't need to level more than one job to 70 , but apparently they've made it possible to buy more than 1 leveling pot.

It'd be nice if people would stop referring to crafting to 50 or even 60 as "work".. it's not hard or even complex. It's simply time into grinding.

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It is still an amount of hours put into something to reach it. Of course it gets easier with time but then the question remains: If it gets easier with the beast tribes why need a potion? If its so easy why pay money? Why play the game at all? I am not a fan of jumping potions..but at least one can argue that a low battle job restricts you from playing with your friends in the current expansion. Crafting jobs dont.

Catching big fishes is also not work, just grind. Getting all the TT cards is just grind and not work. (And mostly RNG too). Why not have potions for those parts too?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

It is still an amount of hours put into something to reach it. Of course it gets easier with time but then the question remains: If it gets easier with the beast tribes why need a potion? If its so easy why pay money? Why play the game at all? I am not a fan of jumping potions..but at least one can argue that a low battle job restricts you from playing with your friends in the current expansion. Crafting jobs dont.

Catching big fishes is also not work, just grind. Getting all the TT cards is just grind and not work. (And mostly RNG too). Why not have potions for those parts too?

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You could argue some people have lives to live, an expendable amount of income, and are superfans of Final Fantasy. They want to experience everything the game has to offer without locking themselves in a room for 10 plus hours a day.

Is it unreasonable to allow them to eventually have all these things? It is just a game afterall. I think that most of this stuff could stay exclusive to in game only for x amount of time and then open up on the mog station for purchase.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

It is still an amount of hours put into something to reach it. Of course it gets easier with time but then the question remains: If it gets easier with the beast tribes why need a potion? If its so easy why pay money? Why play the game at all? I am not a fan of jumping potions..but at least one can argue that a low battle job restricts you from playing with your friends in the current expansion. Crafting jobs dont.

Catching big fishes is also not work, just grind. Getting all the TT cards is just grind and not work. (And mostly RNG too). Why not have potions for those parts too?

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Fishing requires weather, choice of skills and timing (though technically you can Gil bypass this by buying leve objectives). Getting all the TT cards requires beating some difficult opponents and knowing rules. Crafting only requires you have the mats to level with a tiny bit of RNG thrown in. I've leveled every single crafting discipline to at least 60 and personally it was all mindless grinding. Gil could have provided a shortcut but I had no need. .. I also wonder why people keep saying gil is useless when I could easily find any number of things in game it makes wayy easier.

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Originally Posted by Sanctify

Correction, p2w is already in the game. You wana talk about how it'd be bad for ppl to boost crafts? Open up your PF right now. What say you about the plethora of people selling 9-12s carrys for the literal best gear in the game available lol. And you can bet if you ain't got the gil they'll take your PayPal$$$ lmao.

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If theyre charging RMT, then thats a ToS violation and something SE would have to deal with. This goes back to my botter position, if youre gonna break the ToS why would you even spend money on the jump potions in that case. If people are selling 9-12S carries for GIL, then the question is how they got hte gil in the first place. If theyre breaking ToS to get Gil, goes back again to the botter position. Just because people break the ToS doesnt mean you should overhaul the system. This would be like saying "Some people bot to level 70, therefor everyone should just get free jump potions for any class they want." It's a really silly argument.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

In what sense does 1-50 server as a gate when with 150k-300k gil (and enough leves) you can buy 1-60 & have it done in no time?

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Again, where is that Gil coming from? If you spend your own time and Gil to power through crafting more efficiently, thats fine. That is an avenue available to you. Why should you get a jump potion for crafting then if the game already provides you with a more streamlined avenue if youve earned gil already? I mean, lets not even mention that you spending gil to level up your crafter is an investment your making into the MB, where buying a jump pot doesnt do this.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

And leveling/story skip pots weren't?

.. and when you say P2W .. win what exactly?

The money pile contest?

People can already straight out buy gil giving them access to all the things you're afraid of.

1-50 is only a gate if you start from scratch and have no resources. If these "bot"s you're afraid of wanted to be 50 crafting they could do it in a day with enough gil to buy mats OR maybe they just use another bot to farm all the necessaries and then use those mats to craft.

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This is being facetious. You know exactly what a P2W model is. Since crafting and gathering is more directly related to Gil acquisition (along with gear and consumables), it makes it a hell of a lot easier to clear content having those crafters/gatherers maxed for you when you can make yourself the top tier crafted gear going into a raid tier. Gating works as a form of balance, simply by saying "You want to have easier access to gil, then spend the time and effort leveling crafters/gatherers." Players who are to lazy to put in the minimum amount of effort either have to find other means of making Gil or just stay semi poor.

As for botters or buying Gil, these are against teh ToS and are done in a lot smaller means than what jump potions would allow. I love how everyone likes pointing out "Derp! People can buy Gil! Therefore jump potions please!" As I pointed out above, just cause some players break ToS doesnt mean that would be a great argument for jump potions. If youre gonna break ToS, why even use jump potions? So your account doesnt get banned? So you want your cake an eat it too at that point. To lazy to do the work but dont want to get banned for buying Gil? Just petition SE to give you that sweet sweet jump potion! That doesnt smack of self interest, game economy and other peoples hardwork be damned.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

This is being facetious. You know exactly what a P2W model is. Since crafting and gathering is more directly related to Gil acquisition (along with gear and consumables), it makes it a hell of a lot easier to clear content having those crafters/gatherers maxed for you when you can make yourself the top tier crafted gear going into a raid tier. Gating works as a form of balance, simply by saying "You want to have easier access to gil, then spend the time and effort leveling crafters/gatherers." Players who are to lazy to put in the minimum amount of effort either have to find other means of making Gil or just stay semi poor.

As for botters or buying Gil, these are against teh ToS and are done in a lot smaller means than what jump potions would allow. I love how everyone likes pointing out "Derp! People can buy Gil! Therefore jump potions please!" As I pointed out above, just cause some players break ToS doesnt mean that would be a great argument for jump potions. If youre gonna break ToS, why even use jump potions? So your account doesnt get banned? So you want your cake an eat it too at that point. To lazy to do the work but dont want to get banned for buying Gil? Just petition SE to give you that sweet sweet jump potion! That doesnt smack of self interest, game economy and other peoples hardwork be damned.

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And we already have P2W as far as Job level skip pots. Literally paying to skip towards endgame, making yourself more powerful along with a full set of gear for that level. AND making top tier crafted gear isn't as easy as I got all my crafts to 60, now I can make gear. You need TOP tier level 70 crafting gear and levels as well as Materials that are difficult to get at best. So the pay 2 win argument is pretty flat there. Aside from the fact that it's not even close to "crafting endgame" it just skips pretty much the grindiest most mindless levels. People aren't being gated by anything other than a requirement of time spend mindlessly churning out leveling trash. It's mindless drudgery , not some grand gauntlet that challenges only the faithful. People aren't lazy, but I bet a lot of people would rather spend 15-20 bucks instead of wasting a day you could be running fun things on making 800 steel bars.. then plates.. then shoes then the NEXT bars.. then plates.. etc etc.

And I mention the gil buying because the biggest concern people seem to bring up all the time is "BUT THE BOTTERS WILL..." You don't think these botters have access to the money already? They sell BILLIONS of gil, you don't think that if it was profitable they would have already cornered the market for high level crafting with gil leveled crafters and AH bought HQ gear?

People have quoted 150-300k to just Leve it up, so it's well within the reach of your average level 70 player to simply buy their way ingame without buying gil. When the cap was 60 it would have been pretty very unfair to the people who did that crazy grind for endgame crafting .. but now? 1-60, as all jobs is calculated and walkthrough written to hell. It's very possible for someone to do with minimal effort, it's just a slog.