Why Does A Fierce Race Of Female Warriors...

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Originally Posted by Jandor

People can wear pretty much what they want in the west.
People can design their female characters how they like.
People are allowed to be offended and comment on things.
And the devs can (and do) do what they like.

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1. Until someone decides it's "problematic"
2. See #1
3. True, but just because someone is offended by something doesn't automatically make that something wrong.
4. False. If this thread and the ones that are demanding male Viera are any indication then the devs most certainly can not do what they like because if they could then none of us would be having these discussions.

because they hijacked a design from over 10 years ago, had they designed their own version of viera i doubt theyed have that racial gear.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

What?
Where did I say people can't wear what they want? and everything else you just mentioned? what are you talking about?

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You said there is a double standard, that our society is judgemental, and that if women show skin then everyone around them goes mental.

The thing is though, both in society in general and specifically in game, people are generally fine with other people dressing how they like.
You get some jokes about bikini tanks, and threads like this (where incidentally OP appears to have come around on the issue) but society is generally very live and let live.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

because they hijacked a design from over 10 years ago, had they designed their own version of viera i doubt theyed have that racial gear.

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They didn't "hijack" anything. These are the same Viera that appeared in FFXII so it would stand to reason that they would still look the same.

Has someone been living under a rock?

Its obviously inspired by Fran's outfit.

And not only that, Viera was shown wearing this months ago.

You are super late.

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Originally Posted by Joven

They didn't "hijack" anything. These are the same Viera that appeared in FFXII so it would stand to reason that they would still look the same.

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thats.....exactly what hijacking is. taking something from somewhere else. they took the viera from ff12 and implemented them in ff14. how did you read what i wrote

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Originally Posted by Jandor

You said there is a double standard, that our society is judgemental, and that if women show skin then everyone around them goes mental.

The thing is though, both in society in general and specifically in game, people are generally fine with other people dressing how they like.
You get some jokes about bikini tanks, and threads like this (where incidentally OP appears to have come around on the issue) but society is generally very live and let live.

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That still doesn't imply me saying people can't wear what they want though?
Feels like you're trying to make it that way and putting words in my mouth.

Either way, not trying to offend you so please don't take it as such, but you're very naive to believe people are "live and let live" more so when it comes to how people dress, specifically females in video games and how they should be depicted.
If we were so nonchalant about it, this topic wouldn't even have happened and censoring wouldn't even be a thing.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I certainly would roll a bunnygirl
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).

In all seriousness though, how is this a problem? The Hrothgar are essentially shirtless and no-one's batting an eye. But heaven forbid a woman shows skin. I'm nowhere near as buff as a Hrothgar, but I'm not so insecure about my size and weight to go so far as to say "buff, shirtless men are problematic!" I see them and say "Hells yeah, they look awesome!"

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If I said I don't fancy buff lion chaps, they're not sexy, attractive, or anything I'd want to spend time looking at the arse of, and I would never want to imagine being a sexy bunny girl because it's similarly unattractive to me; but I would like being a buff lion lady in a way I can't be in real life, or would like to punt around a sexy bunny boy because nom would it help you to understand just a little? We could say it's perhaps the same as what you want and are in fact getting, but the reverse. This is just the bare bones, of course.

This incoming thing that appears to be a traditional male power fantasy does not float my boat at all. On one hand, I don't fuss about it being there because the men and ladies who like it do need to have their fantasy (I'm so generous ;) ); Even if it seems to be pandering to outdated stereotypes (buff animalistic male and bunny girl; "Me Tarzan, you Jane"), it has its place as for some reason it clearly speaks to some people still. I may not like it, but as long as the attitude is kept strictly in fantasy (and not real life, which is where further issues with this stereotype lie, even if they do not appear to directly affect some people in their opinion). It can even be fun to play with those stereotypes if you're informed about it and are willing. It's just those are not the only caricatures that can be played with (and I'm not saying they will be, it's just how these races are currently being presented to us - it could all change in the actual expansion).

Although I can't make an equally nommy bunny boi or buff !grr! lion lady that I'm currently are aware of, I'm incredibly hopeful that SE will change this at launch, or soon enough after. I think all this other stuff would then just be part and parcel of the world - it would be more in keeping with the fact we can play our gender counterparts and fantasies in all the races.

I hope this helps, even just a bit, for you and others to understand why this became an issue. Of course, it's only from my perspective, so you cannot take this as the sole explanation. Other people, with other experiences, may think differently and should not be discounted. Also, I don't intend to shoot any happy people down with my opinion; I simply think we should all have equal chance to fulfil our little fantasies in a game, and we should be thoughtful and sensitive to the needs and wishes of others when it comes to these highly personal choices.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

That still doesn't imply me saying people can't wear what they want though?
Feels like you're trying to make it that way and putting words in my mouth.

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Maybe I read intent that wasn't there, my bad if that's the case.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Either way, not trying to offend you but you're very naive to believe people are "live and let live" more so when it comes to how people dress, specifically females in video games and how they should be depicted.
If we were so nonchalant about it, this topic wouldn't even have happened and censoring wouldn't even be a thing.

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I mean, people are "live and let live." Yeah some people are going to rag on how others are dressed, some are going to moan about things, declare it's "oh so scandalous" or whatever, but rarely is any actual action taken to change anything, even with video game characters it's mostly just noise that amounts to nothing.

We've got this topic about it for example, and it'll amount to a fat load of nothing in the end, the Viera will arrive in ShB and they'll be wearing what they were wearing in the reveal trailer.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

thats.....exactly what hijacking is. taking something from somewhere else. they took the viera from ff12 and implemented them in ff14. how did you read what i wrote

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My bad. I've had about 6 real hours of sleep over the last three days and had a momentary brain/finger disconnect.

I get tone doesn't translate great online sometimes, so off the bat just want to say--not going for angry, hostile, harsh, any of that when I disagree in this post. Mild and conversational from my end.

I'm not bothered at all by the fanservice, lack of realism, lack of practicality, etc. for Viera and their starting gear. Not even bothered that the Veena (who apparently live in snowy landscapes) are gonna be freezing their bunny butts off if we stop and think seriously about it. And I'd like to suggest, gently, that this is a kind of silly thing to get worked up about.

Reasons are this. Final Fantasy as a franchise has been both notable and consistent about suspension of disbelief in the name of fun. Fun might mean "badass" or it might mean "hot" or "funny" or any number of things. It's pretty equal opportunity in terms of gender. You can get waifish characters wielding swords twice their height. You can show male and female characters running around freezing areas in swimsuits. You can have the Warrior of Light fight Zenos in a fat chocobo mask.

Viera are genderlocked right now yeah, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before that changes. Same with Hrothgar. When gender is unlocked for Viera, if the guys are similarly fanservice-y then that is supremely fair imo.

But beyond that. First, we can always put a Viera character into something more modest. Second, there are a ton of games out now with character customization as an option where either female characters are modest or outright barred from feminine clothing. There are more practical, realistic game options too.

The approach to Viera is very in-keeping with the tone Final Fantasy has maintained overall. Suspension of disbelief is consistent in how it's used and how it isn't. If you want something practical, realistic, devoid of fanservice, etc. honestly you might be happier with a different game.

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Originally Posted by Joven

1. Until someone decides it's "problematic"
2. See #1
3. True, but just because someone is offended by something doesn't automatically make that something wrong.
4. False. If this thread and the ones that are demanding male Viera are any indication then the devs most certainly can not do what they like because if they could then none of us would be having these discussions.

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1. It's a bit more complicated than that. You can wear whatever you want in the west within the confines of the law. For example, I could dress in full armor and walk down the street, but I cannot have a giant blade strapped to my back. However, if an individual finds just the armor problematic, there really isn't a whole lot they can do about it. We're not communists. Property owners and businesses can deem what is appropriate, and do have rights to expel those who do not meet that criteria within their property lines. It's pretty similar in FFXIV, and what the devs will not allow isn't even implemented in the game in the first place, or there are restrictions in place.

2. See #1

3. Your #1 and #3 contradict each other

4. What on Earth does that have to do with anything? The devs can most certainly add male Viera if they wanted to. They chose not to in order to bring Hrothgar into the game. Examples of what the devs cannot do is show an excessive amount of gore, rape, pornography, infringe on copyrights, or allow players to name their characters certain names such as Cloud Strife. So while what Jandor stated is indeed false, it has nothing to do with decisions based around exclusion of gender with new races. Take this agenda to one of the many threads that pertain to that topic.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

1. It's a bit more complicated than that. You can wear whatever you want in the west within the confines of the law. For example, I could dress in full armor and walk down the street, but I cannot have a giant blade strapped to my back. However, if an individual finds just the armor problematic, there really isn't a whole lot they can do about it. We're not communists. Property owners and businesses can deem what is appropriate, and do have rights to expel those who do not meet that criteria within their property lines. It's pretty similar in FFXIV, and what the devs will not allow isn't even implemented in the game in the first place, or there are restrictions in place.

2. See #1

3. Your #1 and #3 contradict each other

4. What on Earth does that have to do with anything? The devs can most certainly add male Viera if they wanted to. They chose not to in order to bring Hrothgar into the game. Examples of what the devs cannot do is show an excessive amount of gore, rape, pornography, infringe on copyrights, or allow players to name their characters certain names such as Cloud Strife.

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1. You carry a sword, you don't wear it just like you carry a firearm. Just because it's on your body doesn't mean it's considered clothing. We aren't talking about private businesses when it comes to what the general public wears, that's an entirely different scenario. If someone finds something another person wears as "problematic" and can convence the right people of why they think it is such then something will be done about it. How do you think laws about what can and can't be worn were made? Someone decided they didn't like something. That's what I mean by "until someone finds it "problematic"".

2. Devs are bound to public opinion. Sure they can design a character however they want, initially, but if the public doesn't approve then they're forced to change it or not make sales. Similar to #1 if one person has a problem with it and can convince others then things will be changed.

3. No, they complement each other. You are allowed to be offened by something, but again, your offense doesn't make that something wrong i.e. demand it be changed.

4. I was refering to the backlash towards the fact that they didn't offer male Viera as a way to highlight that they're not allowed to do what they want. If they could do what they wanted then they could simply say something like "you're not getting male Viera, deal with it." , but they can't because of the negative impact it would have on their sales. Just like with #2. Even you admit that they can't do whatever they want with "Examples of what the devs cannot do is show an excessive amount of gore, rape, pornography, infringe on copyrights, or allow players to name their characters certain names such as Cloud Strife." If they could do what they wanted then none of those would be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwenae

OmNomNom

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it's fine if their appearance is not to your preference, but you can't just say "this is a problem" simply because you find it unsatisfying. No game is going to please everyone. They have to settle for trying to please as many people as they can while still holding to their vision of how the game should be. The fact that this game has far more customization options for characters than most other MMOs out there now is pretty impressive to say the least. You can be tall, short, buff, lean, feline, dragon-lizard thing and potato while also being able to choose your own skin tone, eye color, hair color, etc.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

...look like strippers? Come on, S.E.

I was looking forward to playing a Viera for something different but that starting outfit is too much for me to overlook. They look like they are straight out of Forsaken World.

I thought you were better than that, Square Enix. Count me as disappointed.

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uhm, have you seen the female Hyur starting undergarments?

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Originally Posted by Joven

it's fine if their appearance is not to your preference, but you can't just say "this is a problem" simply because you find it unsatisfying.

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Yes I can. Here: It's a problem. I find it a problem, a particularly unsatisfying one. Other people find it a problem. Other people do not find it a problem for them, yet that does not stop it from being a problem, just not for everyone. Are you telling me I can't say here, in this forum where we discuss this game and ask for things to be taken on board by devs (and so on and so forth), what I find problematic with this product I otherwise love and really enjoy?

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No game is going to please everyone. They have to settle for trying to please as many people as they can while still holding to their vision of how the game should be. The fact that this game has far more customization options for characters than most other MMOs out there now is pretty impressive to say the least. You can be tall, short, buff, lean, feline, dragon-lizard thing and potato while also being able to choose your own skin tone, eye color, hair color, etc.

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Well, yes. So why place a restriction on this now? Because money or time constraints? Okay then, but why then put two races in then instead of one "complete" one? Because lore? We've broken that one already a few times over. But really this conversation you and I are having may be better served in one of the more appropriate threads; I'm very conscious of the fact this may be derailing this specific thread somewhat, despite having similar points to touch upon (so if you want to do that, I'm more than happy to: quote this post on one of those of your choice if you want to continue discussing this, and I'll pick it up there with you. :) )

Btw, have always liked your sig. :)

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

uhm, have you seen the female Hyur starting undergarments?

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Miqo'te starter gear are no better x)

I think they have the shortest skirt of the game.

So why the shock now.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

...look like strippers? Come on, S.E.

I was looking forward to playing a Viera for something different but that starting outfit is too much for me to overlook. They look like they are straight out of Forsaken World.

I thought you were better than that, Square Enix. Count me as disappointed.

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because they live in a jungle? i means a place that is litterally super hot....
without forget they tend to be the agile type that don't need to be hinder by armor

and finally..... because culture. don't try to add morality of our world into something that have nothing in common with! our commons sense will have no way to resist into a world like FF14... the advantage of a game is allows you to explore stuff you cant find in real life....

and by the way, it's the starting gears, something you will change in less of 20 minutes....
at this point it's simply either a troll or a complain that have no reason to be.

don't be a tartuffe and accept difference!

I’m going to dye my hair pink, gain a ton of weight, order a pair of hipster glasses, and call everyone at SE a bunch of mysoginists.

kinda late to the party, but I think if there's any shed of realism in this game...Garlemald would have steamrolled Eorzea even before ARR starts. They have air superiority, they have artillery, the have armors...and yet they are so inept as to send lines of infantry to trade blows with Eorzeans like idiots. Eorzeans have almost zero means to defend air incursions and night raids...and yet Garleans are still content with trading blows with the savages by throwing bodies at them...

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Why does every female have to be dressed in a Burka to satisfy some people?

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Exaggerations aside, there's more to the Viera gear seeming inappropriate than how much skin it covers. For me at least, it's more about the style and the materials - if this secluded jungle tribe were wearing the same amount of clothing in sturdy cloth and leather, that would make perfect sense. But elaborate black metal and sheer fabrics look incredibly out-of-place, if that's what they're supposed to be wearing "at home" and doing whatever it is they normally do.

The high heels definitely don't help the impression, and is entirely about looks over function - if they are naturally digitigrade they firstly shouldn't need the heeled shoe to support it, and secondly should be in a more crouched stance so they can balance properly, not tiptoeing about while standing as tall as possible. It makes sense for a fashion model, but not for a jungle tribe.

(Of course, it's possible once we get to the Viera settlement, they'll be wearing outfits as far from their starter gear as the Xaela nomad robes are to Auri "traditional" starter gear.)


I also dislike the specific choice of using Fran's costume when Fran herself is already in the game - I don't think they've thought through the fact that now and forevermore, from the perspective of a new player not familiar with other FF games, the Viera character in the Lv70 raid doesn't get a unique costume but is wearing the exact same gear that all Viera have been wearing since level 1.

Someone didn't watch Xena: Warrior Princess growing up!

On a serious and probably slightly cynical note: Viera's entire inclusion is purely down to fan service, it makes sense for everything else about them to be about fan service.

I never cared about nor wanted Viera to begin with but that's just how I see it.

You know who else has fierce warriors? The Sentinel Island peoples. You know what they wear? Nothin'. A woven belt generally it seems, oh and a headdress from what I've seen. Not like there's much too see. The lone woman captured on video had those totters hangin' all out.

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Originally Posted by Joven

1. You carry a sword, you don't wear it just like you carry a firearm. Just because it's on your body doesn't mean it's considered clothing. We aren't talking about private businesses when it comes to what the general public wears, that's an entirely different scenario. If someone finds something another person wears as "problematic" and can convence the right people of why they think it is such then something will be done about it. How do you think laws about what can and can't be worn were made? Someone decided they didn't like something. That's what I mean by "until someone finds it "problematic"".

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Ok, fair enough. Then define "problematic". I can dress like a smurf if I wanted to. Someone who has a problem with this while I'm out in public is also within their right to express their discontent with it, but there isn't anything anyone can do about it because there are no laws against it. Unless I enter someone else's property. That is why I brought it up. So if we can't dress how we want, please provide a specific example of how we can't, instead of just saying, "you can't". As people of the western civilization, we are bound by laws and regulations, and those are the only prohibitors I can think of when it comes to what we can and cannot wear. For the most part though, we can wear whatever we want; or rather I should say, I don't have to change my attire because someone simply has a problem with it.

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2. Devs are bound to public opinion. Sure they can design a character however they want, initially, but if the public doesn't approve then they're forced to change it or not make sales. Similar to #1 if one person has a problem with it and can convince others then things will be changed.

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No, they are not. It is in their best interest to appease the majority of their subscribers, but they cannot make everyone happy. In fact, and as most of us know, they have to outright ignore public opinions; otherwise they would never get anything done. Male Viera, a fourth healer, glamour restrictions lifted, more inventory; all examples of public desire and opinion. We the public are not entitled to anything other than what the devs are truly bound by when it comes to the ToS. They have to provide a game for us to play in exchange for our subscription fee. We however are bound to play the game according to the ToS. We can express our opinions and desires, and based on public majority, the devs may listen. That is how we got things like BLU and the Viera. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying public opinion does not matter, but the devs being bound it; nope, not at all.

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3. No, they complement each other. You are allowed to be offened by something, but again, your offense doesn't make that something wrong i.e. demand it be changed.

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The reason why I say this is contradictory is because it is in agreeance with what I have stated in my number 1 clause. Therefore it contradicts 'problematic', but I might be misunderstanding what it is you're trying to say.

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4. I was refering to the backlash towards the fact that they didn't offer male Viera as a way to highlight that they're not allowed to do what they want. If they could do what they wanted then they could simply say something like "you're not getting male Viera, deal with it." , but they can't because of the negative impact it would have on their sales.

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They received the negative impact regardless. Their own subscribers calling them sexist, and threatening to unsubscribe. What would you call that? They didn't say things in the words of, "You're not getting male Viera, deal with it" because they have a degree of professionalism that must needs be maintained. Doing and saying what you want are two different things. We are the ones to blame for creating promises they've never made. Male Viera, DNC as a healer; they've made no such confirmations at any point and we just assumed we were getting them based off of... reasons. We chastised them anyway as if they did. Fact remains that FFXIV is their game that we play. What they decide, we accept, or we move on.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwenae

Yes I can. Here: It's a problem. I find it a problem, a particularly unsatisfying one. Other people find it a problem. Other people do not find it a problem for them, yet that does not stop it from being a problem, just not for everyone. Are you telling me I can't say here, in this forum where we discuss this game and ask for things to be taken on board by devs (and so on and so forth), what I find problematic with this product I otherwise love and really enjoy?

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Let me rephrase my statement: just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it a problem or that it's wrong.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwenae

Well, yes. So why place a restriction on this now? Because money or time constraints? Okay then, but why then put two races in then instead of one "complete" one? Because lore? We've broken that one already a few times over. But really this conversation you and I are having may be better served in one of the more appropriate threads; I'm very conscious of the fact this may be derailing this specific thread somewhat, despite having similar points to touch upon (so if you want to do that, I'm more than happy to: quote this post on one of those of your choice if you want to continue discussing this, and I'll pick it up there with you. :) )

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Going by what was said, they wanted to try and give two new races to make more people happy, they just didn't have enough resources to fully impliment both of them so they compromised. Now that we have both races, even with their limitations, we can expect to get the other genders in the fututre. Personnally I think it was a good idea because now we have more choices.

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Originally Posted by Ceridwenae

Btw, have always liked your sig. :)

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Thank you :D

I think if its racial gear; its for flavor and a nod to a past game, it perfect. (Elves in other games are normally portrayed in light sheer clothing because they are so pretty and agile they don't need heavy armor.) They look beautiful and I support all viera in their bunny lives.

The real question is would the people defending the Viera gear be okay with male Viera in a similar skimpy outfits as well?

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Originally Posted by dustdjinn

I think if its racial gear; its for flavor and a nod to a past game, it perfect. (Elves in other games are normally portrayed in light sheer clothing because they are so pretty and agile they don't need heavy armor.) They look beautiful and I support all viera in their bunny lives.

The real question is would the people defending the Viera gear be okay with male Viera in a similar skimpy outfits as well?

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Sadly, I doubt SE would let male Viera have such sexy outfits. They had to censor the mobius final fantasy main character's outfit because he was too sexy and making guys confused. :( Can only imagine how confused male Viera would make the fragile straight boys.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Devs are bound to public opinion. Sure they can design a character however they want, initially, but if the public doesn't approve then they're forced to change it or not make sales. Similar to #1 if one person has a problem with it and can convince others then things will be changed.

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I 100% understand what you're worried about, but I also think you're several leaps beyond what is actually going on with the devs and fans for FFXIV.

Fans being unhappy with a creative choice and talking about it is very normal. Fans making decisions about what they will or will not engage with, either with their dollar or with gameplay, is also normal. That's our right as consumers. There are a lot of fans and ultimately, part of the job for devs is to navigate between overall customer desire, craftsmanship, monetary/time constraints, and their own creative vision. Good judgment, expertise, and confidence are essential in this role. SE can manage well enough in this respect.

Without naming names, there is an industry where policy involves ignoring most fan demand to the tune of SIGNIFICANT monetary loss. They are instead catering to some very vocal and unhappy individuals who don't spend money when they get their way. The professionals do not conduct themselves well, have removed and destroyed work according to mob whims, and even blacklist talent due to the situation. It takes a lot of ineptitude, cowardice, and bad priorities to reach that point. Further, the mob itself is prone to things like making petitions, trying to organize boycotts, making personal accusations, etc. None of these things need to be given power by the industry since they don't reflect most customers, but some very poor judgment is at work.

Censorship is not subtle. Fellow fans under those circumstances are not persuaded by good arguments but by fear and rhetoric, as are the pros.

If the choices in this situation were made due to simple persuasion and SE decided that either creatively or in pleasing a larger customer base they should adjust tactics, that's healthy. It's also well within their rights. This is a regular discussion. Fortunately for all of us, we can make cases where people actually absorb and think about what's being said instead of pulling kneejerk reactions. If the luxury of being judged by the merit of your argument is here then it's on you to make a better, more persuasive argument.

When you tell other people they shouldn't be allowed to criticize or complain because what if the devs listen, you're enacting that very censorious behavior you're worried about. Your opinion isn't inherently more valuable than OP's or people of similar mind to OP. It's a slippery slope best avoided.

Personally, I'm only disappointed their starting gear are literally Fran's clothes and not what the other viera npcs wear in XII, lazy gear for a lazy race.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Personally, I'm only disappointed their starting gear are literally Fran's clothes and not what the other viera npcs wear in XII, lazy gear for a lazy race.

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I'm personally very excited about the Viera as they are, and I'm also happy that we got the standard Fran garb for their racial gear. :X

Honestly the outfit they have could have been their hempen set. It feels odd to me that the Rava description makes it sound like they're stealthy hunters that can camouflage in the jungle...but they do not look like they blend into the jungle at all. Even a little.

I'm sure the npcs won't be wearing that outfit though, just as you don't tend to see any of the other races wearing starting gear for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Honestly the outfit they have could have been their hempen set. It feels odd to me that the Rava description makes it sound like they're stealthy hunters that can camouflage in the jungle...but they do not look like they blend into the jungle at all. Even a little.

I'm sure the npcs won't be wearing that outfit though, just as you don't tend to see any of the other races wearing starting gear for the most part.

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Not that we have a huge sample size to pull from when it comes to new races, but when the Au Ra preview came out they were wearing their racial sets. My guess is this will be the same. X:

As far as the lore goes, honestly they don't look like hunters at all to me. They look a wee bit too pampered for that. I don't tend to read up on lore though, so that bit doesn't really bother me personally.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I'm personally very excited about the Viera as they are, and I'm also happy that we got the standard Fran garb for their racial gear. :X

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Fran hides too much skin and could have been all races.
Their starting gear should have been-

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100416201314

Similar but not literally the same as Fran.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Let me rephrase my statement: just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it a problem or that it's wrong.

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No, it still makes it a problem, for me or others of a similar mindset. It's just not one for you, or people of a similar mindset to you. It's very possible for it to be both. :)

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Originally Posted by Joven

Going by what was said, they wanted to try and give two new races to make more people happy, they just didn't have enough resources to fully impliment both of them so they compromised. Now that we have both races, even with their limitations, we can expect to get the other genders in the fututre. Personnally I think it was a good idea because now we have more choices.

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We all have choices, that is true. My choice, I suppose, is to not engage with that new stuff on a creative level as it currently stands (as in not making new characters of those races or using a fantasia to change any of my existing characters, nor having them as retainers or in my squadron if they're available for those), and I'm happy to let SE know about it in posts such as this as well as my actions in game, and as long as I stay polite, I've every right to do so.
Also, if they don't have full resources to implement both races, isn't it really just half measures? Imagine full resources on both races meaning that what we're getting and what we could get could be even better later on, if enough time was devoted to it. They didn't have to give them to us at this point - although I understand why they did. I don't think it's the smartest move, but perhaps they were under pressure to provide something over nothing by upper and darker echelons. If it was me in charge (I pity the fool!), I would've just gone with "when it's ready; this is (sp)ART(a)!" and have full justice done to both races so as to not let fans down. So I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that outcome. :)

That said, I'm actually in agreement with your expectation towards the other genders coming in the future. I'm also wanting that extra time to include working further on the models so that buns are able to wear hats. Here's hoping it eventually comes good for everyone! :D

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Originally Posted by Joven

Thank you :D

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You're welcome! :) Have a great weekend.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Fran hides too much skin and could have been all races.
Their starting gear should have been-

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100416201314

Similar but not literally the same as Fran.

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We still have the hempen set to look forward to. I don't know if they were wanting to copy more outfits from XII, but they do have a variety that could be tweaked to work for that use.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

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Problematic is pretty self explanatory: it's something that someone finds as a problem i.e. a roach infestation is problematic. I can't walk down the street wearing nothing but a towel and a smile. Why? Because enough people got together and decided that something like that was "indecent" so they made it illegal. If enough people find you walking around dressed as a smurf to be inappropriate they'll do something about it. As for private businesses and residents: they are owned by an individual so that individual gets to decide what the dress code is based on what they consider appropriate. Places like grocery stores, hospitals, schools, etc are considered "public spaces" which means they're akin to being outside even though they are privately owned businesses. They still have a "dress code", but they try to keep it to something simple like "shirt and shoes required" so as to not encroach on our ability to wear pretty much whatever. They're still free to change it to suit the situation, like how you can't wear shorts in a courthouse because even though it's considered a public space they want to portray at least some semblance of professionalism. I'll give an example of someone finding something someone else was wearing in a public space to be a problem and forcing them to change it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8plCd0c7gV0. (NSFW language). I know the video is fairly old, but it still applies.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

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Originally Posted by Gemina

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Both of these prove my point. The fact that they received so much of a negative reaction to the lack of male Viera, despite the fact that they even offered Viera to begin with due to requests, is indicative of how little control they really have over what they release if the public doesn't approve. If the devs could do whatever they wanted then they wouldn't really care about appeasing the majority and just release whatever they felt like whenever they felt like it and to the 7 Hells with the complaints. That's what I meant with the statement "you're not getting male Viera, deal with it". They would never say that, but even if they had no intention of releasing male Viera in the future they'd have no choice now but to release them because of the public outrage. They have to weigh their options about what they add too. Glamour restrictions lifted, more inventory and a fourth healer may be what a majority of people want, but if they were to focus on fulfilling those objectives then another majority of people would complain about them taking time and resources away from creating raids and adding more areas. It's a no win situation.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

...look like strippers? Come on, S.E.

I was looking forward to playing a Viera for something different but that starting outfit is too much for me to overlook. They look like they are straight out of Forsaken World.

I thought you were better than that, Square Enix. Count me as disappointed.

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You forgot to add the /s at the end OP.

That or you have zero idea of what Viera are, what they look like, and how they dress. If you didnt know, now you do! Congrats!

if that bothers you I ask this, why is it that it took until Viera to get stripper looks into the game? There´s plenty of fully covered armors already, but a dearth of skimpy options. Now THAT is disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Because warriors aren't known for wearing gear that doesn't protect anything. Well, except for Celts, and they didn't fare too well against the Romans."

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Im not exactly whipping out my wallet over female Viera honestly. yeah, Not a fan of the lingerie style they got going. Thats my feeling on it, buuuuuuuuut that being said, Im not considering how 'realistic' it is as armor. Virtually every single armor except some of the low level ones are extremely impractical for combat. It's a fantasy game where we literally have guns and no one is considering that a gun will pierce most historical plate mail (Hell, crossbows were excellent at that too), or people dont get severe burns or frost bite from BLM spells. Where Paladin armor has your head virtually exposed and monks fighting with their fists would be pretty much useless in most battle situations. If we were being REALLY REALISTIC, most armies would be comprised of machinists cause guns are way better than virtually almost all melee weapons.

Always taken the view everyone's skin is made of stone or something or that everyone has a magic overcoat that mitigates tons of damage so you dont need the most practical armor to be protected. So even if it's stripper gear, if theyre soldiers, theyre soldiers cause fantasy.


For CLARITY though: I will point out that the viera designs are extremely fan service ish. This isnt 'wilderness hunter' armor in any way, even among fantasy things. It really is very lingerie-esque. Which is fine (not my taste, but fine!). It just doesnt work with the setting. Its teh type of armor and dress Id see if they were in Uldah or Limsa maybe, not in wild forest environments. It just doesnt...fit. Im not sure how the FFXII explained this, but yeah.

There are several other fierce warrior races you can play, and none of them start out in battle armor.
Why would you expect civilian clothing to offer protection? Even when people go hunting, they don't wear armor.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Not that we have a huge sample size to pull from when it comes to new races, but when the Au Ra preview came out they were wearing their racial sets. My guess is this will be the same. X:

As far as the lore goes, honestly they don't look like hunters at all to me. They look a wee bit too pampered for that. I don't tend to read up on lore though, so that bit doesn't really bother me personally.

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Yeah it's kind of like female Xaela all over again.

They're taller than au ra women, but they don't look like hunters. They look like supermodels. The lingerie esque racial armor doesn't help that image. If that set was their hempen set I wouldn't bat an eye at it, but the viera don't look...well, fierce. Or intimidating. At least not that we've seen so far.