So, realistically and logically....

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

When they are brainwashed, yes.

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Ok I win, you are just getting ridiculous. Brainwashing is not some switch you flip. In fact you you are making the case for people rebelling against this society and leaving for a more tolerant one more compelling.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Ok I win, you are just getting ridiculous. Brainwashing is not some switch you flip. In fact you you are making the case for people rebelling against this society and leaving for a more tolerant one more compelling.

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They would not have your mentality at all.

You are just grasping at straws and have nothing to back you up. You'd would have to prove they intrinsically have no free will. If you find something that says so let me know.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

we pay we say. we say we want male viera and female hrothgar.

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Oh, that's how it works? Awesome

Well considering I've most likely paid for this game longer than you since I've played the game from the start of the first version, when should I expect my burmecian race? Or did I miss something and somehow the value of my subscription make me less entilted to what I want than you?

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Originally Posted by craybest

making a whole new second genderlocked race is much more work than simply adding the other gender to a race alreayd in developpement. they now have to create double the lore, double the everything.

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yea healers i am very happy with the decision...however gender lock is sexist towards men. but in 2019 men are the most under represented. We cant even get the slim and trim version from ff10. we literally got a low rez roe with an event like cat mask...yay.... viera looks like she was created from an entirely different game engine her textures skin and clothes were so smooth. unlike mr pixel the lion rock

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Originally Posted by MsQi

You are just grasping at straws and have nothing to back you up. You'd would have to prove they intrinsically have no free will. If you find something that says so let me know.

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You just don't understand their perspective. They were raised and trained to be a certain way. It is what they know. You aren't going to have hundreds or even thousands of them running around as adventurers. Everyone else in the game is an adventurer you come across. They are much rarer than even male miqotes and their survival rate is even in question. No one has even seen one. The burden of proof is not on me, since the lore is the proof that they don't go out adventuring or possibly do anything outside their mandate. The fact they are raised that way is why it would be considered brainwashing. It's not much different than brainwashing that is seen even in first world countries, just much more efficient.

First off most people usually -do- do what they are taught. Even with free will. Its called society, if you don't follow with the majority you are ostracized at best and killed/jailed at worst. So yeah the males WOULD continue to do what they are taught and go with the way they have been for however many years. Brainwashing has nothing to do with it. If it works then they go with it. Everything with a species is based on breeding and continuing the population. You do what will get your bloodline and genes passed on. For Viera males it would be staying in the forest, protecting their home, becoming bad ass masculine bunny men siring a few children and rinse and repeat ad infinitum. Its cool, its different, and its something to look forward to to make the race unique. Just because it upsets the snowflakes does't mean it should be changed in the slightest. Part of writing is CONSISTENCY if you make something stick to it, they are. And I don't want to hear any of the miqo'te crap cause its not the same setup nor even the same NUMBER of males to female ratio.

I think everything will be okay. There is just a lot of gut emotional reactions without much thought being thrown out. People will calm down eventually.. Hopefully.

Overall i'm excited for everything shown. Gunbreaker, Dancer, Viera, even the Ronso. I won't be playing the Ronso but i think they are a cool addition. I like seeing big hulking dudes in armor, i think its really cool. And about Viera, i still haven't decided if i'll be race changing or not.. I'm very attached to my character. I'll have to experiment with the Viera customization first before i make a final decision.

I hope someone cleans up Lore forums soon...

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Originally Posted by craybest

making a whole new second genderlocked race is much more work than simply adding the other gender to a race alreayd in developpement. they now have to create double the lore, double the everything.

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Not really. Another gender is 90% as much work as another race. The only race that doesn't have that issue are the lalas. But every other race uses a completely different mesh and animation than their opposite gender so they will still work from scratch. Only lore and small things like ears, tails etc are what they can save themselves time working on when it's the same race.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

I'm not whiteknighting. I'm just calling you out on being ridiculous like always. You're literally saying you don't respect matsuno while saying you're unsubbing because you aren't getting a gender of a race he invented. Like do you not see how bad you look?

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But Matsuno already said he wasn't against male Viera :)

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Originally Posted by VillainQueen

But Matsuno already said he wasn't against male Viera :)

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But that doesn't mean he's actually going to make them. Lots of people love Roegadyns, but they will never fantasia into one themselves.

Here come my two cents:
If you don't have the ressources to make everything great focus on a few things and make them great, instead of doing multiple things that are half assed at the end.

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Originally Posted by VillainQueen

But Matsuno already said he wasn't against male Viera :)

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As far as I know, he said he had nothing to do with this decision. Not that he was against them, not that he would support people wanting them. He just distanced himself from that acussation.

People online pretty much helped on male Viera designs if they were lacking the "soul" to design them, really. They just didn't give a shit (and I think that's what stings for most people who are against genderlocking, myself included).

As far as I see it, if females get g-string tangas, males should get 'em too. Bunny suits, although belated, were a right step towards that end... and now, they shot themselves in the foot doing something that they said would not do.

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Originally Posted by Dhanauranji

People online pretty much helped on male Viera designs if they were lacking the "soul" to design them, really. They just didn't give a shit (and I think that's what stings for most people who are against genderlocking, myself included).

As far as I see it, if females get g-string tangas, males should get 'em too. Bunny suits, although belated, were a right step towards that end... and now, they shot themselves in the foot doing something that they said would not do.

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Source on them saying they wouldn't genderlock?

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Source on them saying they wouldn't genderlock?

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I reckon I don't have a source other than what I recall of 1.0 when they genderlocked Roes, Highlanders and Mi'qotes (there were no Roefemmes, no Thighlanders and no male kitties, yet they fixed that). I recall someone in the forums saying Yoshida even disregarded how lore worked to give us that and that he was against the lock in the first place, so the new "reasoning" being lore again is kind of bullshit.

Also, they say they don't have the resources yet there are "people" in some "places" who do models of stuff for the game and for free. Hire THEM, I say.

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Originally Posted by Dhanauranji

I reckon I don't have a source other than what I recall of 1.0 when they genderlocked Roes, Highlanders and Mi'qotes (there were no Roefemmes, no Thighlanders and no male kitties, yet they fixed that). I recall someone in the forums saying Yoshida even disregarded how lore worked to give us that and that he was against the lock in the first place, so the new "reasoning" being lore again is kind of bullshit.

Also, they say they don't have the resources yet there are "people" in some "places" who do models of stuff for the game and for free. Hire THEM, I say.

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Yeah, seems no one who is saying that can actually source it... interesting.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

ok but ronso in ffx had females. why is it that only viera are above tampering with?

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This. TONS of Ivalice lore got shuffled around or changed in the FFXIV version. I really don't see why male viera are the one sacred cow of Ivalice that dare not be touched upon or altered in FF XIV.

Also borrowing this from another thread:


https://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201903240006/

Q: When did you decide to implement the female-only Viera and male-only Hrothgar?

A: It was during Return to Ivalice, around 3 months after 4.0. Viera was confirmed then, and Hrothgar came about at the same time when we were discussing plans with Matsuno-san. We were deciding whether to make a Hrothgar female or a Viera female, and after selecting Viera, work began right away, because otherwise we wouldn't make it in time. As mentioned before, the face parts are special and Hrothgar has big differences between its faces, like a lion face, wolf face, leopard face. It became a fixed model relatively recently. Viera was done right before Paris Fan Fest, and Hrothgar was done recently.

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Originally Posted by Tramontane

Oh, the irony. What claim do you have to tell someone else what they think is homophobic or sexist, by your own logic?

Or, instead, are you really just saying "this isn't homophobic or sexist because I said so"? Yes, I think that's what's going on here.

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How about you go and look up the definition of homophobic and sexist? After that you can come back and we can talk again. Not implementing something i not sexist or homophobic just because someone feels offended by that.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

I'm sorry but I don't have any respect or care about Matsuno's backwards opinion. This is not his game.

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And you wonder why people stop listening or caring for your opinion?

Yoshi has literally explained exactly why they chose to do this though.

They wanted to add in a more bestial race like the Ronso, but felt they had to put the Viera in because it was the most demanded race. As it was their 'last shot' at a new race, they wanted to cover as many options as possible, and used the Viera lore as an excuse to not give them males.

And as I've said before, this is probably the best result for players as well.
It's true that adding two 'half' races is more work than simply adding in the other gender of an existing one, which means it'll be easier to add in male Viera and female Hrothgar down the line, than it would be to add another entirely new race, making it more likely to happen.
If we had just got male and female Viera and no Hrothgar, we'd likely never see Hrothgar, or vis versa.

But that's only going to happen if people keep politely requesting it, accusations of sexism aren't going to get you anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Yoshi has literally explained exactly why they chose to do this though.

They wanted to add in a more bestial race like the Ronso, but felt they had to put the Viera in because it was the most demanded race.

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in another timeline we got a bestial viera race w two genders

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

in another timeline we got a bestial viera race w two genders

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Pleasing even less people...
"These aren't real Viera!"
"I wanted to play a Ronso not a giant rabbit!"

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Pleasing even less people...
"These aren't real Viera!"
"I wanted to play a Ronso not a giant rabbit!"

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Hard to say. There were not any hints about Ronsos so people where actually susprised. And because they promised back in 1.0 to not repeat gender-lock, a lot of those, who asked for Vieras, actually really waited to see males as well.
Still, with what you are really right, in case if they would add one full race, there is almost a zero chance to see another one in future. So with creating this situation they kept a big window for themself. Not to mention that optimizing armor for missing genders will be easier when they know already how to do it based on expirience with female Vieras and male Hrothgars (because their counterparts likely will be similar to them in proportions). And Yoshida sounded in his interviews like they want to complete them, just can't promise anything right now because of resources.

I'm curious about the general feedback if the devs had decided to add Ananta as a playable race. They would obviously be genderlocked because of lore.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

I'm sorry but I don't have any respect or care about Matsuno's backwards opinion. This is not his game.

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I couldn't help but laugh at this comment. You don't care about his backwards opinion but you're crying over his creation lol.

His design choices are fine. You're the one thinking backwards. You're upset about someone else's artistic decisions and throwing a tantrum.

Nobody complained about this in Mass Effect with the female only Asari (https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Asari) who were only feminine.

It's all well and good that you're dismissing the original creator's wishes, having stated you don't care about him... but I doubt anyone at SE or Matsuno himself give a darn about what some overzealous sniveling child on the English forums of FFXIV cares.

Really, lady, just grow up.

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Originally Posted by Yshal

His design choices are fine. You're the one thinking backwards. You're upset about someone else's artistic decisions and throwing a tantrum.

Nobody complained about this in Mass Effect with the female only Asari (https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Asari) who were only feminine.

It's all well and good that you're dismissing the original creator's wishes, having stated you don't care about him... but I doubt anyone at SE or Matsuno himself give a darn about what some overzealous sniveling child on the English forums of FFXIV cares.

Really, lady, just grow up.

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Matsuno was not responsible for male viera not being added and doesn't seem opposed to the idea, that being said he seems to envision them as being muscular.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

I'm sorry but I don't have any respect or care about Matsuno's backwards opinion. This is not his game.

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Didn't even know what to say about this nonsense... i didn't saw such a respectless comment in a long time.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

we pay we say. we say we want male viera and female hrothgar.

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Ouh Dude, i don't know if you know this, but it's not that easy in the real World.
You pay to get the allowance to enter the Servers and play the Game, nothing more.