No TP in Shadowbringer Expectation

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I think Goad will be one of those skills going bye bye. But you do bring up a good point. With TP gone will Skill Speed become all the rage?

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Melees and mch would still avoid it as much as possible except sam due to gcd clipping it's not a worthwhile stat in most cases can't speak for tanks/brd though

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Melees and mch would still avoid it as much as possible except sam due to gcd clipping it's not a worthwhile stat in most cases can't speak for tanks/brd though

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Yeah it's pretty much avoided on Bard too, removing TP won't change that.

However they change things, I hope they make resource management an actual thing. As a Bard at least the tp bar might as well not exist outside of spamming Quick Knock with Army’s Paeon, and even then you can go straight back to 100% with Invigorate and/or Tactician.

I can’t speak for jobs like Dark Knight because I don’t play enough to really know how removing tp would affect them.

For Bard though I’d love to see MP using songs like Requiem and songs like Paean and Minne have a base mp cost and short cast time (1.5 secs is short enough that it’s barely even a cast time). Requiem could have a short duration like 10-15 secs and the same effect is has now. That way you would have to manage your resources and how you’re supporting the party, instead of just blasting every piece of support you have out on a conveyor belt rotation at the start of the fight to line up with other buffs

More concerned about what AST could possibly replace Spire's effect with.
Direct Hit is an unlikely target as it's useless for Healers, so not everyone would benefit from it. Determination would basically be Balance, and nothing else is critical.

I just think there is other ways they could be approaching tp. Merging it with mp seems odd to me and would certainly change things for caster (and possibly Bard)
Also, and they have not talked about it but why do they not remove tenacity for tanks? It is rather useless

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

More concerned about what AST could possibly replace Spire's effect with.
Direct Hit is an unlikely target as it's useless for Healers, so not everyone would benefit from it. Determination would basically be Balance, and nothing else is critical.

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Maybe a buff to healing received? Would be useful but not essential and they would still have two cards to burn for spreading.

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Originally Posted by Maero

I just think there is other ways they could be approaching tp. Merging it with mp seems odd to me and would certainly change things for caster (and possibly Bard)
Also, and they have not talked about it but why do they not remove tenacity for tanks? It is rather useless

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The only caster that uses TP is RDM for it's melee combo, and if speculation is correct then it might just have no cost like all basic weaponskills.
Bard only has Foe Requiem to be concerned about, so the main casualty will probably be Paladin.

I'm thinking the main thing will just be any of the standard combo skills will just be free and the ones that cost a lot of tp such as AoE will have a mana cost.

Or they could make even those free. They're not a big deal for the current mana classes to maintain aside from healers anyways
and just make it so every dps works somewhat like dark knight with a whole subset of mp using stuff
massive job overhauls has been a staple of expansions anyways

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Originally Posted by Nihility

massive job overhauls has been a staple of expansions anyways

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Not every expansion in this game. Heavensward only saw anything close to a job overhaul for Bard becoming "the bow caster" and Ninja getting its own gear type apart from Monk, and that was pretty much it. The only reason why Stormblood needed "massive job overhauls" was because at some point, devs needed to create an extra resource for each job to serve as a foundation for any future abilities. Since Stormblood got that bigger factor out of the way, Shadowbringers would most likely be on par with Heavensward in terms of what changes jobs get.

If TP were removed, it oddly wouldn't be as big a deal as players would think since any spell or weaponskill with a primary resource cost relies on a base percentage of that resource. Those percentages would just translate over from a percentage cost of base TP to a percentage cost of base MP. If anything, the biggest impact might be some melee jobs wanting Piety, which would be kinda funny.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Not every expansion in this game. Heavensward only saw anything close to a job overhaul for Bard becoming "the bow caster" and Ninja getting its own gear type apart from Monk, and that was pretty much it. The only reason why Stormblood needed "massive job overhauls" was because at some point, devs needed to create an extra resource for each job to serve as a foundation for any future abilities. Since Stormblood got that bigger factor out of the way, Shadowbringers would most likely be on par with Heavensward in terms of what changes jobs get.

If TP were removed, it oddly wouldn't be as big a deal as players would think since any spell or weaponskill with a primary resource cost relies on a base percentage of that resource. Those percentages would just translate over from a percentage cost of base TP to a percentage cost of base MP. If anything, the biggest impact might be some melee jobs wanting Piety, which would be kinda funny.

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And suddenly I'm reminded of the time one FC I was in trolled a Ninja into putting Spell Speed ARR relic. It's no Piety, but I think it's close enough to where you can get the picture. xD

I stacked Piety onto DRK once. Kinda disappointed I couldn't put Piety on relic. If I could I could get an extra DA and increase SoSU returns by a small bit. Sad.

Only time I think Piety helped was on BLM to give it 4 Fire 2 casts instead of 3.

But those days are gone now.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I stacked Piety onto DRK once. Kinda disappointed I couldn't put Piety on relic. If I could I could get an extra DA and increase SoSU returns by a small bit. Sad.

Only time I think Piety helped was on BLM to give it 4 Fire 2 casts instead of 3.

But those days are gone now.

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Piety is only good when it's on the gear (so for healers). Melding piety is almost always a bad choice right now.

Edit: Nevermind, I'm a dumbo.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

Speaking of Critical, I wouldn't mind that. It would pair up very well will SCH and BRD (assuming that the parts of their kits that depend on crits remain the same in Shadowbringers).

On the other hand... I could also see it pairing up too well and tightening their stranglehold on party slots even more than in the present meta.

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But, Spear has already been changed to Critical Hit chance...

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The idea is that DRK isn't very good currently, so any rework must be an improvement.
However, DRK isn't as bad as people think. It could do with a rework of Living Dead, and some ergonomic redesigns around Blood Price/Weapon and Grit/Darkside, but besides that, it's all good.

Even Dark Arts isn't that bad anymore. It's pretty simple how it grants a flat 140 potency besides AoEs, so you don't need to use it with everything and it's pretty simple to decide what to use it on based on that skills additional effect.
Single target: C&S (max DPS) > Souleater (for HP) > Syphon Strike (MP neutral 140 potency boost)
AoE: Quietus and Abyssal Drain spam on proc between SE combos.

But if TP is reworked in a way some people have suggested, that weaponskills will have no cost and only AoE attacks will cost MP, then actually, DRK doesn't lose anything, because all of DRK's AoE attacks already cost either MP or Blackblood.

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Fair enough. I was just being salty based on the negative gameplay effects of SB to my mains, with DRK chief among them. I don't mind running DRK for raids; it's just not nearly as fun as it used to be, imo. Honestly, I'd just like to see Grit MP cost halved, the cast changed over to a GCD-triggering, but not GCD-affected, ability, as per Heavensward Empyreal Arrow, and... no, that would quite nearly be enough already. It won't newly make it fun, but it'd reduce the vast majority of my frustrations.

Honestly, I don't even think, if weaponskills were to have MP cost as per the rest of the weaponskill-inclusive jobs, that DRK would be unfairly affected. Just reduce the costs down to Monk level and reduce the MP costs on the basic spells, and while you might inadvertently buff the ease of DRK's AoE MP management or slightly increase their relative MP generation over downtime... that's hardly a problem.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

But, Spear has already been changed to Critical Hit chance...

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OH. Welp nevermind me then, I completely forgot about Spear XD

Well, in that case I have no idea what else the Spire could do. They can't remove it because it's relevant to job quest narrative, but FF14's stats don't leave a lot of room for buffs that aren't already covered. Maybe... something to do with cooldowns? A buff that speeds up recast timers by x% for its duration?

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

OH. Welp nevermind me then, I completely forgot about Spear XD

Well, in that case I have no idea what else the Spire could do. They can't remove it because it's relevant to job quest narrative, but FF14's stats don't leave a lot of room for buffs that aren't already covered. Maybe... something to do with cooldowns? A buff that speeds up recast timers by x% for its duration?

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So... that's the old Spear.

And its main issue was that it would desync cooldowns. It would need to increase Cooling Rate by x%, rather than decrease Recast Timers by x% to work in a manner that would function without desyncing one's cooldowns from each other. (Of course, it would still have huge variance in value -- nearly throughput-worthless to BLM and SAM -- and accelerated cooldowns would still be desynced from raid (de)buffs, which remains problematic unless every Spear is Expanded.

Spire could reduce/negate MP cost, increase direct hit rate, increase attack range/negate positional requirement, cast on self to convert healing spell to damaging spell, cast debuff on enemy target, etc.

Spire could add lifesteal effect to target(s) attacks.

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Originally Posted by linay

Spire could reduce/negate MP cost, increase direct hit rate, increase attack range/negate positional requirement, cast on self to convert healing spell to damaging spell, cast debuff on enemy target, etc.

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Direct hit: Useless for healers, so not universal
Range/positionals: not utilised by every class
Healing to damage: Only useful for healers
Debuff: ... possibly?
Negate MP costs... actually yeah, given that everyone will use MP now, this is actually very likely.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Direct hit: Useless for healers, so not universal

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Not really, since healer spend 80+% of their time doing dps. But then that's just be another battle voice that would further enforce the sch/ast/brd/drg meta, so I really hope it doesn't happnen.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Direct hit: Useless for healers, so not universal
Range/positionals: not utilised by every class
Healing to damage: Only useful for healers

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TP: useless for healer, not utilized by every class, not universal...yet that's what spire does now...
lord of crowns: only useful for...the ast