Escalating skill requirements & FFXIV future

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Umm...the thing is, the OP is talking about a story trial you do solo, not any group content. The story stuff is one and done, and doesn't really matter if it's easy for people or not. I'm guessing the issue with the OP is that the end of the sadu part involves a lot of dodging and for whatever reason they just aren't good at it. Plus it has like five different phases. But again, this is a single fight that is one and done, and not really anything important to the game since it doesn't affect anything else. Depending on what the OP does in the game, it may really be an issue; if all they do is play for the story and do solo content otherwise, it can be a gate for them which they don't need.

Also, the constant fetishization of difficulty in this game is getting old. I don't mean in story trials, but I'm getting tired of the same old people thinking the only way this game is meaningful is if its hard, or that players need to be forced to do harder content for undefined reasons. Do you know how you hate Pagos? That's how people can feel when forced to do hard content, because Pagos is just another kind of hard difficulty centered around long-term patience. The game actually works as it is now, with people able to do the level of difficult content they choose freely. It's pretty easy to wreck this, because hard content in this game can ramp up in difficulty exponentially due to the 8 man party mechanic structure. So cut people some slack; you definitely will lose a lot more than you gain by asking for harder content forced on everyone.

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If they can't get past this, then sorry, but they have no business being in any of the group content that comes after it. And group content is actually required for the story.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Personally I feel like we are paying subs so we're entitled to give feedback even if it's kind of nonsense like most of this complaint thread but by your own logic you're just supposed to accept any decisions the devs make and move on.

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You can give feedback. "I don't find this hard. I think this level of difficulty is at a good place and does not need to be reduced." That's feedback. What you're doing is attacking other plays because they do find it hard. That's not feedback for the developers. And you're trying to brush off *their* feedback as the crying of whiners.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Wouldn't they feel much more accomplished if they managed to beat a fight they have difficulty with, rather than waiting it out to beat it once it's nerfed so they manage to do it through no extra effort of their own?

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You've never had to throw in a towel in a game because something was just beyond you? There's no guarantee they will come back once it's nerfed. Once you lose someone, it can be hard to get them back.

This is annoying me more than it should because this is not one but TWO threads of people complaining about a solo instance that isn't even hard. Come on people learn how to play the game already. You are given a healer type character with FOUR buttons. Would you like to know how many buttons a SCH, WHM, or AST use?

The Echo and whatnot exists for a reason. Patch story content is also usually completed easily in the span of a day so even if you do end up failing a solo story instance you can simply retry it, even if you're not practiced with the type of gameplay a healer has. Stop making a big deal over something that will only last for not even half an hour of your entire time in this game (or marginally longer).

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Also, the constant fetishization of difficulty in this game is getting old. I don't mean in story trials, but I'm getting tired of the same old people thinking the only way this game is meaningful is if its hard, or that players need to be forced to do harder content for undefined reasons. Do you know how you hate Pagos? That's how people can feel when forced to do hard content, because Pagos is just another kind of hard difficulty centered around long-term patience. The game actually works as it is now, with people able to do the level of difficult content they choose freely. It's pretty easy to wreck this, because hard content in this game can ramp up in difficulty exponentially due to the 8 man party mechanic structure. So cut people some slack; you definitely will lose a lot more than you gain by asking for harder content forced on everyone.

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That comparison is incredibly disingenuous. Pagos is in no way challenging. It's utterly mindless, and essentially the equivalent of fighting a target dummy. People enjoying more difficult content isn't a fetish, it's wanting something which isn't a complete faceroll because, quite frankly, it is meaningless otherwise. Look at the sheer amount of complaints over Thordan Normal. The epic conclusion to Heavensward has been mocked and laughed at by even inexperienced players because it's so embarrassingly easy you can't actually fail. Behold the dissolution of tension. When nothing poses a challenge, it robs the story of any weight. Shinryu can't be some godlike entity if you can faceroll him in five minutes.

We have talked about this endlessly, thus I reiterate. The reason this game ramps up in difficulty is because it has a horrible curve. Until recently, we've had extremely easy content suddenly juxtaposed with sudden difficulty spikes. That builds a lot of complacency since people expect everything to be easy when almost everything is. 4.4 actually did a better job avoiding this, though growing pains are going to linger for a time.

Put simply, how about people learn to perform a basic rotation instead of whining? Good players didn't become good overnight nor did they spend hundreds of hours perfecting everything. You can be good and have spent only a handful of hours practicing. What it boils down to is some people want everything handed to them, even if it means indirectly demanding better players carry them because god forbid they have to put forth an effort and learn themselves.

This is the second thread complaining about this instance, what’s the deal? I didn’t find it any harder than any other story instance, no special mechanics in the first half, and y’shtola only had 4 buttons one of them being a basically full cure in the second.

Maybe people who are ignoring their gear are struggling? If so, gear up, or fail a bunch and use the echo, you have options to make the fight easier. But comparing it to extreme content? Give me a break, I wouldn’t even compare that to hard mode primals.

Even if you do find it difficult, work on improving yourself and you’ll pass it eventually. This is a game, not a movie, if you can’t beat the fights you don’t get the story, that’s how games work.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

You can give feedback. "I don't find this hard. I think this level of difficulty is at a good place and does not need to be reduced." That's feedback. What you're doing is attacking other plays because they do find it hard. That's not feedback for the developers. And you're trying to brush off *their* feedback as the crying of whiners.

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Yes, yes I am brushing off their feedback. It is the crying of whiners.

I'm not receiving the money from their subscriptions, they aren't entitled to anything from me like they are from SE. If Yoshi-P popped into this thread and said the same things I did it would be inappropriate because he is providing a service for which the OP is paying. I am not.

It's clear that this level of difficulty is fine for the vast majority of players. If we always tune everything around the lowest possible skill level we won't have a game but instead just a series of cutscenes. I don't want that.

Make things harder. Give enemies we know as powerful some bite to their attacks. Magnai and Sadu are two of the most powerful warriors on the Steppe - a place where combat prowess is cultivated and prized via rituals like the Nadaam. We sought these people out as allies in a war. If they can't give us some kind of challenge then why did we care? If the WoL is powerful enough to let these guys beat on us endlessly with no repercussions ala Zenos what's the point of having allies?

These are our peers and as was mentioned by Hien in the recent MSQ they are powerful allies but you don't want them as enemies.

Let threads like this always be a reminder that deep in Amdapor Keep a sad and lonely Demon Wall is wondering whatever happened to his beloved pet bees.

I just don't have the heart to tell him the truth ...

The thing about the moon is really only the last phase with Sadu going nuts and the small dps check. I can see if a person struggles with fast paced action he might find it hard, or if he has limited ablity due to disabilities, it will be a bit rough. Generally, you only have to do a couple dungeons and one trial per patch for story reasons, and those can be done with friends. And those are slowly paced enough to let those players not to be that much of a burden; something like alphascape can be ignored since it doesn't really gate further progression. I don't think he's off on complaining if he meets these conditions. It won't get changed, but at least he can have his say.

I don't even see the point of those fights, they are just roadblocks anyways, and that particular fight was so pointless in the MSQ that I was shaking my head at it the whole time. No, we can't show you any more of the burn since we have no developers here, let's just rehash elements and mobs for a useless detour because otherwise we have barely any content in this patch. As for rotations, its kind of eh you all argue in one breath "it needs to be this way because rotations!" when the second part of the fight limits you to four buttons and won't let you play the class you started with.

The thing about MSQ instance combat difficulty is it doesn't even compare to the dungeons the MSQ requires you to run, so I have to wonder how their difficulty is fair, unless you expect to be carried through all of them that you do. At the end of the day, story or no, this is a game, not a book. Games have inherent challenge, and it is a good thing. There is a marked difference between something being challenging and something being "too hard". Rise to the occasion, you'll be a better player for it.

It may be a little harsh to say, but if player(s) find solo MSQ content insurmountable, the game is better off without them. Sure, it's one less subscription and that's bad for business, but if any one player cannot make it past a relatively low difficulty solo instance, they are only going to frustrate players in group content. To be honest, this game needs considerably less frustration in group content, which is entirely based on the lack of skill from the average pugged player.

So if anything, escalating skill requirements in the MSQ is a very good thing, if we ever make it there (which I doubt, and it's certainly not the case right now).

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I don't even see the point of those fights, they are just roadblocks anyways, and that particular fight was so pointless in the MSQ that I was shaking my head at it the whole time. No, we can't show you any more of the burn since we have no developers here, let's just rehash elements and mobs for a useless detour because otherwise we have barely any content in this patch. As for rotations, its kind of eh you all argue in one breath "it needs to be this way because rotations!" when the second part of the fight limits you to four buttons and won't let you play the class you started with.

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Yeah because what this game's story needs is to have every single quest simply be "go here, talk to this guy and then go to another place to talk to someone else or fetch an item".
These battles are here because this is a game, it kind of needs to have gameplay to work.

Also why do you want to see more of the Burn? I'm pretty sure the dungeon already covered the most noteworthy parts of it, it's just a barren wasteland for the most part.
And the fight did serve a purpose to the story? Like, you're literally bolstering Doma's defenses so that the empire can't easily reconquer it while Hien is in Eorzea helping the Alliance... yeah it could have been more straight forward but if the devs just wanted to do storytelling in the most straight forward way possible the entire Heavensward MSQ probably wouldn't even exist.

I don't really want to offend anybody, but...

FF XIV is one of the easier MMO's.

Dude... I did it will one of my alts healers at just barely 340. If you can't do it with BRD you must be sleeping at the keys.

If I can do it on BLM, you can do it on BRD. I don't even know what else to say....

You can attack and move at the same damn time for crying out loud. What on earth are you even doing?

Did you take your own arrow to the knee or something? Did it fly out of your TV screen? The world needs to know for science purposes.

Hate to be mean but this really just boils down to you being bad at this particular video game. FFXIV is already one of the easier more casual mmo's on the market currently. An engaging story can only keep a persons attention for so long. Challenging content needs to be there at all levels. The game is linear anyways so if you're staying at a lower skill level and never improving then it's on you. You need to learn to play whatever class it is you play and be able to look at the mechanics happening around you. If you can't do that, as it seems, then you need to find another game. That's just the reality of the situation. This doesn't fall on SE to cater to you, nor should it for the games' sake.

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Originally Posted by dotsforlife

Hate to be mean but this really just boils down to you being bad at this particular video game. FFXIV is already one of the easier more casual mmo's on the market currently. An engaging story can only keep a persons attention for so long. Challenging content needs to be there at all levels. The game is linear anyways. You need to learn to play whatever class it is you play and be able to look at the mechanics happening around you. If you can't do that, as it seems, then you need to find another game. That's just the reality of the situation. This doesn't fall on SE to cater to you, nor should it for the games' sake.

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This cannot be emphasised enough. I have many friends, acquaintances and general people I know of who have either complained or quit the game entirely because of how easy a lot of the content is. They don't raid nor do they have any interest in doing so (at least a handful), however they still want something that keeps them engaged. Stuff like Swallow's Compass or Deltascape normal generally don't accomplish that when they're so easy, people barely barely take any damage. No one is asking for everything to be Savage difficulty. People just want casual content to have teeth. It's the difference between playing a game on Normal mode instead of Very Easy. Normal isn't necessarily hard, but remains a decent enough challenge.

...whenever I see a thread like this I wonder how people (like this) get past solo-games that involve any kind of combat. Do they just cheat their way through bossfights? Does every game offers a "skip this one"-option now? I've never heard of a solo-game being adjusted because people cried about it being to difficult...

And I'm saying that as someone whos mostly sticking to non-action games because I'm not that great at them.

...and as someone who had to do the Efrye-fight on the airship in FFX like 5 or 6 times because I just couldnt do it. And I know thats not action but strategy, but I looked at what I was doing, thought about what I could be doing better and finally got through it - I guess most people just dont wanna do that... probably need more games like Life is Strange - interactive movies rather than actual games.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

...whenever I see a thread like this I wonder how people (like this) get past solo-games that involve any kind of combat. Do they just cheat their way through bossfights? Does every game offers a "skip this one"-option now? I've never heard of a solo-game being adjusted because people cried about it being to difficult...

And I'm saying that as someone whos mostly sticking to non-action games because I'm not that great at them.

...and as someone who had to do the Efrye-fight on the airship in FFX like 5 or 6 times because I just couldnt do it. And I know thats not action but strategy, but I looked at what I was doing, thought about what I could be doing better and finally got through it - I guess most people just dont wanna do that... probably need more games like Life is Strange - interactive movies rather than actual games.

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In a lot of cases, they either massively overlevel the content or quit. Since you brought up FFX, you can trivialize everything with some grinding, Blitzball or tossing Yuna into Auron's grid. With Aeons tied to Yuna's stats, they do absurdly high damage if she has high STR. Sadly, plenty of people like this just quit entirely because "it's too hard!!!!" It's why we keep seeing games get easier and easier.

That being said, Life is Strange is amazing. Not much in terms of gameplay, I agree, but still amazing. :D

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

In a lot of cases, they either massively overlevel the content or quit. Since you brought up FFX, you can trivialize everything with some grinding, Blitzball or tossing Yuna into Auron's grid. With Aeons tied to Yuna's stats, they do absurdly high damage if she has high STR. Sadly, plenty of people like this just quit entirely because "it's too hard!!!!" It's why we keep seeing games get easier and easier.

That being said, Life is Strange is amazing. Not much in terms of gameplay, I agree, but still amazing. :D

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I know this is totally offtopic, but I failed that fight BECAUSE you dont have Yuna there and I was used to throwing Aeons at everything - nice wake up call to finally figure out what to do with the other characters, actually! (Just how certain duties in FFXIV might be a nice wake up call to figure out what the other 90% of your buttons do...)

And yes, Life is Strange is a great game, I loved it! Picked it precisely for evenings/times when I dont want to pay an aweful lot of attention to mechanics or reaction-times. I enjoy Point-and-Click-Adventures for the same reason (and I can recommend The Book of Unwritten Tales in this context!) which is why it baffles me so much when people pick games with gameplay that they dont seem to enjoy enough to actually care about it...

I really enjoyed the encounter, by far one of my favorite MSQ duties to date. You really should try not standing in the easily avoidable AoEs; I don't think I was clipped by a single one, and I'm hardly a top tier player at all. I understand not everyone does the casual raids or EX dungeons and so they might be behind on gear, but I haven't ran into a single quest fight that was Extreme/Savage tier difficulty.

this wasnt a hard fight at all tho. I dont understand this.

He's been playing MMOs since 2000? No way. Not to rain on the guy's parade, but my 11-year daughter also has a FFXIV account. She beat it too. It took her two tries for the girl and did it on her first try as Y'Shtola. And she doesn't have the best hand-eye coordination.

This fight was nowhere near hard. Are we talking about the same fight? In Azime Steppes for the 4.4 patch? With little Sun?

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Originally Posted by Nirokun

Yoshi-P definitely told you to GIT GUD. Follow the instructions. The game is supposed to be challenging and rewarding to give you a sense of accomplishment.

Dumbing things down repeatedly takes the joy out of it for everyone else. Just better yourself and you'll enjoy the game more, and the people playing with you in dungeons won't have to struggle as much to carry your burden. Thanks.

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This. This is probably 60% of the reason I quit playing WoW - things got dumbed down to the point where there just wasn't any *fun*. The other 40% being the story; no MMO compares to FFXIV's storytelling, my gods.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

EDIT: OP is also being disingenous to insinuate that the MSQ’s difficulty is anything like Extremes or Savages. Not even Byakko or Alte Rolte was that easy.

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By reading OP's post, I am more the convinced he was carried through Byakko and all those party finder MSQs (we've seen them...the player that dies every three seconds in a trial or raid and the Redmages and healers just get tired of rezzing em for manna reasons). I think we all have gotten used to thinking a lot of us has progressed beyond lvl 35 Titan and figured out AOE mechanics, etc etc. But I think OP is a reminder that some folks just may be bad at the game no matter how easy we may find it

I just had a RDM in O11N who used Jolt II, Impact, and Scatter almost exclusively.. Yes I said scatter, yes there are no aoe targets in O11N...

Some people in this game just don't even try.

We had to vote abandon after half an hour.

I'm fine as long as SE doesn't add any jumping puzzle requirements in MSQ. The seasonal summer event with the jumping puzzle was evil and it made me gave up getting the swimsuit.

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Originally Posted by Snapdragyn

I've been playing MMOs since 2000. At this point in FFXIV, I don't see a future for myself in this game. The level of gameplay skill required JUST to get through the MSQ is fast approaching the limits of my capabilities.

Bard main, i350 - & I can NOT get through The Will of the Moon (just the part where I still get to play my own class, never mind the part where I would be forced to play as another).

At what point does a dev team recognize that continually boosting 'challenge' in _required_ content will eventually drive away part of their player base? I've already quit GW2 for exactly this issue - I couldn't complete the main story quests.

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That last instance was a bit tougher than others (and certainly more frustrating if you're struggling, given that failing the second part means repeating the first), but I don't personally have an issue with an i350-equipped player having trouble with the MSQ at this stage in the expansion. The base iLevel of gear introduced alongside the MSQ is i380 - a massive upgrade - and the instance in question doesn't block access to any of the gear (unlike the last debatable fight I can recall, Shinryu).

May I ask how you'd suggest SE make content mostly-easy for an i350 without making it completely boring for people at higher gear levels? I mean, suppose for the sake of argument you were i330 and struggling, or i300: to what level of gear do you think SE should balance content like this?

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

May I ask how you'd suggest SE make content mostly-easy for an i350 without making it completely boring for people at higher gear levels? I mean, suppose for the sake of argument you were i330 and struggling, or i300: to what level of gear do you think SE should balance content like this?

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I suggest having difficulty option at start of fight like some single player games. Easy, Normal, Hard, and Very Hard. Granted I would probably end up choosing Easy every time to get it over with.

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

That last instance was a bit tougher than others (and certainly more frustrating if you're struggling, given that failing the second part means repeating the first), but I don't personally have an issue with an i350-equipped player having trouble with the MSQ at this stage in the expansion. The base iLevel of gear introduced alongside the MSQ is i380 - a massive upgrade - and the instance in question doesn't block access to any of the gear (unlike the last debatable fight I can recall, Shinryu).

May I ask how you'd suggest SE make content mostly-easy for an i350 without making it completely boring for people at higher gear levels? I mean, suppose for the sake of argument you were i330 and struggling, or i300: to what level of gear do you think SE should balance content like this?

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I350 is completly fine for the msq. These quests are designed that even undergeared players, which is not even the case with i350, can do it.

How about we try helping the OP instead of bashing him?

If you're on an older PC, upgrading it if you have the money will be an immense help. People don't understand how much of a difference it makes when playing a MMO like this until they get that better computer.

Staying calm in The Will of the Moon is your best friend. Everything in the fight you have seen before in earlier solo portions of the MSQ. Since you managed to get past those, you can get this done as well.

Being in melee range isn't going to increase the damage Sadu deals to you nor will being at range decrease it so don't worry about trying to stay out of her melee range. Focus on staying out of the AoEs since that is avoidable damage.

For the group of 3 adds, DoT a couple of them for extra Repetoire procs and focus on Sadu. You can otherwise ignore them (they'll disappear when you get her health to 1) though if the DoTs kill one or two off so much the better. Just be ready to run to a safe spot when you see them spread out to the side of the arena to do their conal AoE.

For the criss-cross AoE that's immediately followed by her column AoE, just head to a safe square. As soon as the criss cross marker disappears, run through Sadu (she's probably been sticking to you like glue) to get out of her column AoE safely.

Only one phase of the fight has a hard timer (the one with the 2 adds that are tethered to Sadu, making her immune to damage). Focus down the adds one at a time then focus on her. When the adds are doing their ccolumn AoE, run up to then through one of them to safely avoid it.

That's pretty much it. It's not as hard as it appears once you make sense out of how to handle the AoEs.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

I350 is completly fine for the msq. These quests are designed that even undergeared players, which is not even the case with i350, can do it.

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Seconded this. Even the new normal mode 8-man raids have introductory item level requirements of i350/i355. I'm an i362 AST and have healed the two hardest floors (v11 and v12), and only ran into issues with MP because of multiple deaths. Other than that, healing wasn't hard. DPS even less so.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

I suggest having difficulty option at start of fight like some single player games. Easy, Normal, Hard, and Very Hard. Granted I would probably end up choosing Easy every time to get it over with.

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What about dungeons involved in the MSQ? They ask nothing more of you than this solo-quest did - know your base-rotation and dodge AoEs. They just give you three people to potentially carry you...

I'm sorry if I'm rude here, specially towards people who have a legit reason to really struggle with those fights, but... I consider it highly unfair and rude to sort of expect three other people to clean up your mess because you're not intrested in improving your skill and/or gear. This isnt directed at you personally, Dirwen, more a "thought experiment".
Personally I'm of the opinion that we need more mildly challenging solo-duties so that people realise they need to improve and can do that in the process. Yes, I think dungeons - the moment, its NOT a solo-duty anymore - should be gated behind said solo-duties in which people prove that they have basic skills, like their rotation down and moving out of AoEs.
When me and my friends did The Burn on tuesday we got a bard with an ilvl300 weapon and no clue how to play their class (also no reaction in party-chat, so we kicked them after the 5 minutes had passed). That is just... not okay and shows nothing but a lack of courtesy for your fellow players - after all this isnt a solo-game and the courtesy I'm asking for is very low level: Have proper gear and an idea of what you're doing at level 70.

Setting solo-duties to "Easy" instead of improving when you eventually have to play with other people again isnt really helpful...

I wouldnt mind seeing a "challenge mode" for certain solo-duties though!
...but yeah, as an answer to Kirsten questions I feel this fails right at the moment you think of group-content asking the same of you as the solo-duties do. You're robbing yourself of a needed learning experience when you dumb those solo-duties down if you cant clear them in the difficulty thats present right now. And once you're in group-content you cant just put on "Easy" anymore and have half the AoEs disappear and stuff only hit half as hard.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

I suggest having difficulty option at start of fight like some single player games. Easy, Normal, Hard, and Very Hard. Granted I would probably end up choosing Easy every time to get it over with.

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It's an interesting idea, but I still don't think it fully handles the issue. Let me elaborate a bit more.

The MSQ is not intended to be fully accessible content. I believe Yoshi-P has said as much himself, though I've no desire to hunt down the exact quote. It is intended to be on the easier side of the content spectrum, but it's also intended to build player skill, serve as a bridge into harder, non-MSQ content, and provide incentive to improve gear. In other words, the MSQ is the fail-safe that ensures virtually everyone at level 70 has moved past the stock level 70 gear provided at the end of 4.0.

So with this in mind, even with difficulty settings, the easiest would have to push players to some extent. I'm curious as to the OP's thoughts - and yours - on what that point should be. Me personally, I think providing a challenge when someone is 30 iLevels below the entry-level gear introduced alongside the content in question is reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

I350 is completly fine for the msq. These quests are designed that even undergeared players, which is not even the case with i350, can do it.

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I'm aware, but by the standards of the typical MSQ instance, these are a bit more challenging, in my opinion. I certainly didn't find them at all rough, but I can see where some people might.

Seriously though, how did you get through Return of the Bull but have trouble with this one?

I haven't progressed that far in the msq so I can't comment on that specific battle but at times I've felt the same, as far as having hit the limit of my capabilities. Maybe I already have and get through with my husband's support, because he's naturally more adept at anything that requires quick reflexes. I struggle to process what's happening on my screen in time to react appropriately. My enjoyment of the game is primarily the immersive environment, but the msq happens to be an extension of that.
Anyway, mainly I just stopped in to say that as someone who often feels frustrated because knowing what I'm supposed to react to and actually accomplishing it are two different skills, I can relate.

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

I'm aware, but by the standards of the typical MSQ instance, these are a bit more challenging, in my opinion. I certainly didn't find them at all rough, but I can see where some people might.

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Honestly i didn't find them more challenging than tataru ex or the alphinaud thing. Also the fight with zenos (where you couldn't beat him at all) was way more challenging than this and i didn't see people complain there.
If this quest is to hard for someone, he/she should rethink their strategy and try something else.

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Originally Posted by SugarPuff

I haven't progressed that far in the msq so I can't comment on that specific battle but at times I've felt the same, as far as having hit the limit of my capabilities. Maybe I already have and get through with my husband's support, because he's naturally more adept at anything that requires quick reflexes. I struggle to process what's happening on my screen in time to react appropriately. My enjoyment of the game is primarily the immersive environment, but the msq happens to be an extension of that.
Anyway, mainly I just stopped in to say that as someone who often feels frustrated because knowing what I'm supposed to react to and actually accomplishing it are two different skills, I can relate.

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You will get better at it with time and practice. I definitely fell into the same boat when I was first starting out, and now most of it is second-nature. Which, of course, is exactly why the MSQ, alongside other pieces of content, is designed to constantly expose you to basic mechanics.

the trouble with the will of the moon is most people that fail it, don't fail because of capacity, but by lack of knowledge.
not knowing them cycle, not knowing how use correctly them skill, not knowing how deal with aoe and add.....

do it means this people are bad player? not really, simply until now they had no way to test them mettle against hard content, because this player generally don't do savage. and that something that was pointed loooong ago.... the lack of true midcore content have create a huge wall between casual and raider that try really to beat the hard content. because they have the expert and the normal dungeon that are super easy, the raid 24 that can be carried by 2/3 of the raid and that all, you directly jump to primal and savage mode....

even the normal raid is not that hard...

it was asked over and over and over to add a true challenging content for 4 player that will serve as midcore plateform for allowing player to learn all about them class. serving as bridge between raider and casual player, creating a learning curve more smooth.... than the one we have here, it's not asking to handle reward, it's ask for a place where to teste our mettle and knowledge against challenge that will come between expert and raid.

because for me jump from easy content at 4 into hard content at 8 without training is what make a lot of player struggle. and soo far, no content was really tailored for this goal.... and it's a shame, we are in the 6th years since the release of ARR and we still don't have this missing part of the content... for a time i had hoped for the deep dungeon to fill this role, but in the end, it fail too.... yes the new deep dungeon can be hard, but mostly because of the random of the chest, if you don't get the right pomander you can be screwed severly.

we need a content that will serve a training ground, as a place for earn new reward and experience for allows more player to jump to savage... and if they really don't want to jump into savage, it will give raider and casual player a place for do another activity.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

we need a content that will serve a training ground, as a place for earn new reward and experience for allows more player to jump to savage... and if they really don't want to jump into savage, it will give raider and casual player a place for do another activity.

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Agreed, but I think your point is unrelated to this thread. Will of the Moon has two parts. The first isn't any more demanding than a number of other fights we've had, and boils down to the same basic message of "stay out of AoE and kill as fast as you can" that literally every piece of instanced content in this game uses (be they solo instances or otherwise). The second part is a bit more challenging for people who haven't played a healer before - particularly given that MP management is somewhat relevant, and the fight starts quite quickly - but again, there's nothing fancy about the AoE that hasn't been seen before. Honestly, the worst part of the entire mission is probably that both instances are strung together, and are not especially short, causing unnecessary frustration if you're struggling with the second part in particular.

In short, for players who are struggling with it, there's almost certainly an ability or gear gap playing the villain, not a knowledge one. It's more difficult than normal for solo instances, at least in my opinion (I know you disagree here, Ilan), but it doesn't hold a candle to group-based content the MSQ has pushed us through. The knowledge is there.

More gate keeping the better, if you can even call solo msq trials that since you can get a billion percent echo and eventually one shot it if you fail enough times. I definitely want less bad/lazy players in the future where me and the rest of the party have to do extra work because people doesn't want to carry their own weight.