[dev1237] Why take skill out of crafting?

I dont like the fact that HQ will only have 1 real chance. If you want to try a 2nd attempt (aka. One touchup), the percent goes down and you risk looseing your whole item!
I guess they just wanted another way for us to loose our gear and sink our time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I hate the loose lose thing, if english is your 2nd language I understand but can you please remember loose = baggy, not tight and lose= opposite of win. I am going to read it loose everytime, even if know you meant lose, because that's how I read my language.

---

Oy, sorry. I'm native to Portuguese so sometimes things slip. That was far from intentional, I assure you, it stems from the fact that I speak as I type and to me both sound so close that now and then I mistake them both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LuciBlack

I dont like the fact that HQ will only have 1 real chance. If you want to try a 2nd attempt (aka. One touchup), the percent goes down and you risk looseing your whole item!
I guess they just wanted another way for us to loose our gear and sink our time.

---

Keep in mind if it's not loose enough it won't fit on a Roegadyn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LuciBlack

I dont like the fact that HQ will only have 1 real chance. If you want to try a 2nd attempt (aka. One touchup), the percent goes down and you risk looseing your whole item!
I guess they just wanted another way for us to loose our gear and sink our time.

---

they said touch up was going to change so you cant use touch up as something that matters in this scenario

I'm glad that HQ materials will reap better rewards. HQ materials roughly cost between 2-6x more than a NQ in most cases, and getting a NQ version off of it really sucks. Glad I kept a lot of my HQ ore for this patch. :D

I am glad however they are not increasing the NQ HQ rate.

Man, it takes so much skill to craft, its like amazing! It's totally not just luck!

Edit:

On a side note, I'm perfectly fine if they make the lv36 skills from every class a bit less useful and instead make it so it's based on your ingredients quality. It makes a lot more sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LuciBlack

I dont like the fact that HQ will only have 1 real chance. If you want to try a 2nd attempt (aka. One touchup), the percent goes down and you risk looseing your whole item!
I guess they just wanted another way for us to loose our gear and sink our time.

---

Yes they made the entire process much more logical, predictable and less wasteful while also keeping the random factor (albeit a KNOWN random factor this time) to "sink" our time.

Wait what?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risx

Man, it takes so much skill to craft, its like amazing! It's totally not just luck!

---

Sometimes I try to hit Enter with my elbow instead to add some challenge.

Because crafting as it stands takes no skill. Just an ungodly amount of patience (and possibly a taped down turbo controller, depending on who you ask).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

A very comprehensive explanation.

---

I think that Rem, TheVedis and Noctis collectively have all hit the nail at least 10 times already.

Alas laymens' terms for good measure:

regardless of whether or not you have HQ mats in your synth, if you manage to get 800+ quality, the chance of HQ output is much higher. The only thing HQ mats do, is start you at a higher quality. They do not automatically make your chance 50~100%.

I'm pretty new to FFXIV and these forums but I'm already starting to see why so many people are sick of random complaining against generally good changes that goes on here.

OP, I see what you're trying to say, but I REALLY think you're incorrect in saying that, in the current system, getting to ~300 quality with NQ items because of "skill" = more HQ items. There's been SO many times where I used NQ items and got really high quality due to luck/skill, and the finished product ended up STILL being NQ. And then there were all the times where I got the quality to 60 or so, and the finished product was randomly HQ. The current system is too random and meaningless, and the changes they're making are on the whole positive because it allows us to understand what quality and HQ ingredients actually DO.

TL;DR your argument is invalid because the current HQing system is too random and the new HQing system makes sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LuciBlack

I dont like the fact that HQ will only have 1 real chance. If you want to try a 2nd attempt (aka. One touchup), the percent goes down and you risk looseing your whole item!
I guess they just wanted another way for us to loose our gear and sink our time.

---

so you like current crafting that closer to gambling than proposed changes then....hmm ok

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aion

so you like current crafting that closer to gambling than proposed changes then....hmm ok

---

the new and old systems are exactly the same in most regards, the reason it feels more random isnt because its a gamblers game, its because the difference between 0 quality and 300-500 right now is like 5-10% tops

the truth behind this change is that they are changing the quality output you recieve so that they can keep the old system and integreate it into making it easier to hq with better mats(hence why the new quality changes are all 600+ which people werent able to reach before)


but seriously, when you have a 1-5% chance, the rng on that will be horrible regardless so of course itl feel like you arent getting good hqs at higher quality and then you randomly get one at lower, its just random and narrow chances in general

Ultimately I think most people can agree that SE is retarded, and likes to destroy their only redeeming traits in the game. They see its works well for players, and decide its time to end the fun, and bend us over.

They take things like an effective player search system from XI and leave it out, and instead bring back traits like moving = casting interruption (Pretty miffed about that one, since this is the second time I mentioned it...) back.

Thanks SE! you suck...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acretia

Ultimately I think most people can agree that SE is retarded, and likes to destroy their only redeeming traits in the game. They see its works well for players, and decide its time to end the fun, and bend us over.

They take things like an effective player search system from XI and leave it out, and instead bring back traits like moving = casting interruption (Pretty miffed about that one, since this is the second time I mentioned it...) back.

Thanks SE! you suck...

---

Uh... What does that have to do with the HQ crafting changes?

This thread has proven to me, there are always people who bash someone else because they disagree with them. Even though what I have posted could be interpreted that way, people are assuming the way they think is the correct way. This thread was made to get a dev response in how exactly this will work. Just because you and 1000 other forum trolls decide something does not mean the dev are going to make it that way.

Lets try this again... Using the quote below...

Quote:

---

When using Disciple of the Hand equipment and the appropriate abilities, Quality will improve during synthesis by 300 to 600 points.

---

How can anyone gain 300-600 quality on anything above rank 50 synths? How can we assume we will be able to raise this quality? What does this mean for the rank 53/54 synths available? Even with 100% HQ mats we are lucky to get 5% chance at HQ?

I must be the dumbest person on the forums since I posted a question right? That is how you make people feel. I watch it happen all the time.

Please forum mods, start taking care of people who belittle your paying customers for asking questions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acretia

Ultimately I think most people can agree ....

---

I disagree.

On topic: I look forward to the changes, I really don't like the way HQs works presently. I think the new system will be much more fair...like you know exactly how to get HQ, but you still have to work for it. And if you take the time to get HQ mats, then you get a little boost. Well, that is what I'm hoping anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

How can anyone gain 300-600 quality on anything above rank 50 synths? How can we assume we will be able to raise this quality? What does this mean for the rank 53/54 synths available? Even with 100% HQ mats we are lucky to get 5% chance at HQ?

---

I remember the days when getting 500+ Quality was very much possible on recipes near your rank. Then a patch lowered the rate at which quality was gained.

If they are telling you that average Quality gain with proper gear and abilities will be around 300-600, it means they have set the rate to be as such and tested it. That being said, all of the numerical values there are subject to change.

When I read the changes, I read it as this:

"You can't get free +1 crap spamming Standard with a turbo controller anymore"

"You have to Careful every single attempt just to have the old 1/10 to 1/20 chance of HQ if you use NQ mats"

"To HQ anything, you gotta have everything HQ- this should make HQ mats worth something again, since they're pretty much the same price as NQ right now"

It all makes sense for the game economy, but I agree with the original post- they could have done something else as this system just annoys everyone involved aside from RMT and farmers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luhy

When I read the changes, I read it as this:

"You can't get free +1 crap spamming Standard with a turbo controller anymore"

"You have to Careful every single attempt just to have the old 1/10 to 1/20 chance of HQ if you use NQ mats"

"To HQ anything, you gotta have everything HQ- this should make HQ mats worth something again, since they're pretty much the same price as NQ right now"

It all makes sense for the game economy, but I agree with the original post- they could have done something else as this system just annoys everyone involved aside from RMT and farmers.

---

Again, that comes with the assumption that the rate at which Quality is gained will remain as it is now. They've changed it before without even explaining it. They can very well do it again as part of a reform.

Best thing to do is wait and see.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post544099

I'll just drop this here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Hi, this is Director/Producer Yoshida here again.
Thanks for all the feedback regarding the HQ synthesis revamp! Allow me to provide some more info on the topic (although this might repeat a bit from the recent Topics post…)

The Concept
To put it simply, the main idea behind the revamp is that if Quality exceeds 1,000 when completing synthesis, you’re guaranteed to create an HQ item.

Basically, you can gather HQ materials to raise the Quality to 500 (out of 1000) before starting your synth and this can be seen as the need for crafters needing to get good materials together. In the past, I did talk about crafters being guaranteed an HQ item with all HQ mats. However, after further internal discussion we wanted to leave some room for the crafter's equipment and skill/luck as a deciding factor for the final item. Therefore, we decided to go with 500 instead of the 1000.

Item Quality & HQ Success Rate
Starting in patch 1.21, you’ll be able to visually reference the chances of getting a HQ item while you’re crafting. With the level of Quality increasing in stages from 500⇒800⇒1000, the rate that Quality increases during synthesis will not increase at the same rate through the entire synthesis. The adjustments will be made so that 500-800 Quality will have a major increase in the HQ rate, and 800-1000 will have a gradual increase for the HQ rate.

Therefore, if you collect HQ materials and go for quality of 500, and use abilities at the right time, you will get around 80% HQ success rate at worst, and if everything goes well it can increase up to 100%.

So basically, if you take time to prepare all of the materials ahead of time, and so long as you don’t relax while crafting, it means that you should get 80% - 100% on your first HQ craft and create an HQ item. (I am really sorry about this, but keep in mind that the numbers will be adjusted right up until the last minute…)

Touch Up
Even with an 80% chance of success you still might end up with NQ. Of course, even with a 95% chance of success, there will still be the unfortunate 5% that will get NQ. Even if you think “Oh no my item turned out to be NQ”, you can still try to turn it into HQ with the new adjustments to Touch Up.

Since the success rate can already become 80% or 95%, having the exact same rates again would mess up the balance of total HQ output. Therefore, we think that for this second chance the HQ success rate should be about half. For those that feel very strongly about this kind of thing and say “Darn, I don’t want a NQ item and if it isn’t HQ it’s just like losing the item”, we think it would be good to let these people have one more chance.
I would just like to say again, if you follow the typical flow for creating HQ items, I think you will be able to craft HQ items at a decent rate. So, you can think of the new Touch Up as a little “extra”.

Elemental Instability and Abilities
Elemental instability will be adjusted in accordance with the coming patch as we plan on lowering occurrences of elemental instability to make things less stressful. In patch 1.21, we won’t be making any major changes to the details of the abilities, but adjustments will be made to the proc rate of the abilities.

I look forward to hearing your feedback!

---

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QFrNEGePtv...2B-%2BREAD.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

This thread has proven to me, there are always people who bash someone else because they disagree with them. Even though what I have posted could be interpreted that way, people are assuming the way they think is the correct way. This thread was made to get a dev response in how exactly this will work. Just because you and 1000 other forum trolls decide something does not mean the dev are going to make it that way.

Lets try this again... Using the quote below...



How can anyone gain 300-600 quality on anything above rank 50 synths? How can we assume we will be able to raise this quality? What does this mean for the rank 53/54 synths available? Even with 100% HQ mats we are lucky to get 5% chance at HQ?

I must be the dumbest person on the forums since I posted a question right? That is how you make people feel. I watch it happen all the time.

Please forum mods, start taking care of people who belittle your paying customers for asking questions.

---

Hey even though I disagreed with your opinion I think you're probably still awesome and smart, and the people who get overly snarky/angry with their disagreements probably didn't intend to come across so mean! :cool:

I just want to suggest something simple.

Is not more reasonable that if reach the limit of the Quality point, the percentage of my final item ends in a HQ?

Just think about it. I don't see any sense that if I have 800-1000 points i just still have 50% in HQ if I reach the max points. If I just try to get 1000 points I'm risking my recipe and all that for nothing? Because to have the same % to 800 and 1000 Is just not fair and reasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuauh

I just want to suggest something simple.

Is not more reasonable that if reach the limit of the Quality point, the percentage of my final item ends in a HQ?

Just think about it. I don't see any sense that if I have 800-1000 points i just still have 50% in HQ if I reach the max points. If I just try to get 1000 points I'm risking my recipe and all that for nothing? Because to have the same % to 800 and 1000 Is just not fair and reasonable.

---

Unless I'm reading this wrong (and I probably am, because it was hard to understand), what you've just suggested is exactly what they're doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuauh

I just want to suggest something simple.

Is not more reasonable that if reach the limit of the Quality point, the percentage of my final item ends in a HQ?

Just think about it. I don't see any sense that if I have 800-1000 points i just still have 50% in HQ if I reach the max points. If I just try to get 1000 points I'm risking my recipe and all that for nothing? Because to have the same % to 800 and 1000 Is just not fair and reasonable.

---

The HQ rate ranges from 50% - 100% between Quality values of 800-1000. Once you reach 1000 Quality, you are guaranteed an HQ. That's how it will work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acretia

Ultimately I think most people can agree that SE is retarded, and likes to destroy their only redeeming traits in the game. They see its works well for players, and decide its time to end the fun, and bend us over.

They take things like an effective player search system from XI and leave it out, and instead bring back traits like moving = casting interruption (Pretty miffed about that one, since this is the second time I mentioned it...) back.

Thanks SE! you suck...

---

This + bad reading comprehension is why we get threads like this. We'd get a lot less people complaining about things they misread if they would stop assuming that everything SE adds will ruin the game.

I really can't understand where "skill" comes in in the current crafting system. I can get 300+ quality and not get an HQ, or I can just standard spam and roll Touch Up till it HQs at 10 quality. This system is solely reliant on luck, and makes the abilities that I've earned kind of pointless outside of ensuring maximum durability for Touch Ups. Abilities like Clean Slate, Epiphany, Bold Endeavor, and so forth are entirely useless unless I'm doing leves and want the bonus item reward. Under the new system, I'd actually have incentive for boosting up my quality, as the higher tiers of quality ensures a better shot at HQ. The only downside is I don't have the multiple touch ups I currently have, but that's a trade off I'm willing to make for a more consistent HQ system.