Will Eureka last?

It'll die pretty quick as people get what they need. SE not only doesn't encourage you to party with your friends but it punishes you for doing so with the level limit restriction preventing lower levels from getting xp with higher levels, and providing no way to sync down.

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Originally Posted by MilanFrozen

I'll wager that one content patch from now will severely damage Eureka participation. Two and it will effectively be dead.

Why? Because most will have what they want. Any new content they add will undoubtedly favor higher levels and higher level players will not be interested in leveling low level players.

Unless they force more relic pieces/items into Eureka. Then it will be another boom of dissatisfied players complaining because they have to do it.

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I’ve been 20 since day 3, added people lower than 10 and have been PFing daily leveling. I doubt that I’m the only person in the world doing this content helping people level.

I think that there are so many ways to make it last. Add a mount in for doing X amount of NMS, add crafting mats to things. There is SO much they can do I don't know if I trust them to make it work though... The rewards are really scant right now, not really any achievement other than for the relics! Why did we not get one for killing every NM? There is like no reason so spawn Amarok or Lemashtu.

They've hinted they want to do something with achievements so that might be a reason for the suspicious lack of achievements

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It'll die pretty quick as people get what they need. SE not only doesn't encourage you to party with your friends but it punishes you for doing so with the level limit restriction preventing lower levels from getting xp with higher levels, and providing no way to sycn down.

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Fate EXP is the same regardless of party composition.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Fate EXP is the same regardless of party composition.

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Yes, because FATES sync you down. They need to have the same ability in parties, so you can join up with your friends no matter what level you are and have a viable exp option besides the FATE train.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Yes, because FATES sync you down. They need to have the same ability in parties, so you can join up with your friends no matter what level you are and have a viable exp option besides the FATE train.

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Grinding trash was never and will never be a good option while fate EXP remains this high.
The number of trash to kill in order to spawn a fate is related to the number of people in the instance.

In short, there's absolutly no reason not to go for fates, regardless if there's a train or not.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with your underlying opinion regarding the fact that trash farming isn't a viable option (which applies to the issue you mentionned, but also for solo playing). It's just that your first assessment of high level players not being able to group with lower level ones was false in the sense that they could still take the currently most effective route of earning EXP in Eureka. So, getting EXP isn't an issue. But the lack of viable options and the missed opportunity to allow for trash grind definitly is a concern. Although I'm not sure on how big the part of the community who wants to kill trash mobs all day is.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Grinding trash was never and will never be a good option while fate EXP remains this high.
The number of trash to kill in order to spawn a fate is related to the number of people in the instance.

In short, there's absolutly no reason not to go for fates, regardless if there's a train or not.

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Actually it is frequently better to grind exp in between fate spawns as with the large number of players doing the NM trains and low level mobs you get no EXP. Instead while the zerg fest to spawn the NM is going on heading off to kill mobs that give you chained exp is a better use of time. Once the NM pops you return to play the fate.

Many people won't be able to endure prolonged grinding. I've tanked those kind of grinding pulls, and its wearying, especially when you need to stun a mob with every single pull due to its aoe or cleave attack. There's a reason why trash in dungeons is spread out.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

Actually it is frequently better to grind exp in between fate spawns as with the large number of players doing the NM trains and low level mobs you get no EXP. Instead while the zerg fest to spawn the NM is going on heading off to kill mobs that give you chained exp is a better use of time. Once the NM pops you return to play the fate.

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Yes, but only in the current context of a fate train making NM pops for you.
When/If Eureka dies out, there will most likely be no fate train to carry you around. Players will have to make their fates spawn themselves with a very low number of players. And since the number of trash kills needed to make a fate appear will reduced, you won't really "grind" them before the fate appears.

I've already noticed a downturn, and it's not even a week old, so I think it'll die out pretty quickly, just like Diadem did, if not faster.

The difference with this and other content, however, is the inclusion of the relic weapon. With future steps as well, it will hopefully stay alive a lot longer than most people would assume.

(Or at least I hope it does, as I've been preoccupied with the new season of Feast. Having both of these release at the same time as an avid PVPer and PVEer was disappointing.)

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Originally Posted by Fyce

. And since the number of trash kills needed to make a fate appear will reduced, you won't really "grind" them before the fate appears.

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Possibly but we don't really know what the numbers are and they could still be high for a small group. There is this also assumption that SE will nerf things but it doesn't always happen and there's just as much chance it won't. Without a party or open world sync a higher level player is still better off killing higher mobs for exp and/or higher level NM's while waiting for a low level group to pull the NM. It is the architecture of Eureka in its current form that provides no incentive for high level players to help lower level players. While I don't think Eureka will become a Diadem I think the grind for late comers will be longer than the previous relic grinds.

In one of the future relic steps, who knows we could be required to go back to Anemos to collect 20 unique items from each NM (guaranteed drop or not)

I think it'll last IF the devs understand how to design content that

1) Return to the old areas to grind out NMs or kill mobs or something (Like make it part of a quest, again Dailies, Weeklies, Challange Log to make people come back to the content.)

2) Make the old content WORTH returning to, things like the T-Rex and cool drops like the scorpion harness are a step in the right direction but they need to add more and need to remove some of it from the lock boxes. (I've gotten everything but the scorp harness from the lockboxes dunno if its in there or not) Maybe some sort of benefit to helping lowbies too might work.

3) Add more to it. I love Eureka, I really do BUT I see SO much room for potential for things to be added to spice it up. (Some QoL improvements like letting us pick what instance we get into would be lit af too.)

Content like this tends to breed small die hard communities dedicated to it so if its even MILDLY successful this content should last through them as long as they competently do the things above. So far it seems like they've committed to it, excited to see what the follow through turns out to be.

I don't think it will. It's already slowing down and becoming harder to find decent groups.

Once people stop using it, you'll rarely find full groups willing to grind for hours to unlock everything and most of the people I talk to now are only doing it because they know it will be dead content in a month.

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Originally Posted by lltacx

Hope i can get my mount before it dies out then... seems i have zero luck. (or they make it tradeable...)

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I opened a thousand. No dino. Nothing should have a drop rate this low.

No it won't last.

Here is the reasons.

1. when people get high level they don't want to help low levels.
2. Like number 1 it will lead to having people left behind like FFXI it will be a catch up game and after a while they just give up on trying.
3. If they add content it and the people who struggle to catch up decided to stick to it for the ones who were trying to help friends will end up doing the new content further ditching people.

I seen this first hand in FFXI some people love the grind but for the ones who work will be left in the dust.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

No it won't last.

Here is the reasons.

1. when people get high level they don't want to help low levels.
2. Like number 1 it will lead to having people left behind like FFXI it will be a catch up game and after a while they just give up on trying.
3. If they add content it and the people who struggle to catch up decided to stick to it for the ones who were trying to help friends will end up doing the new content further ditching people.

I seen this first hand in FFXI some people love the grind but for the ones who work will be left in the dust.

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This could be solved by adding some sort of effective incentive for grouping with low levels.

I agree I don't think it will last. After getting to level 17 you have enough crystals for a set, by 19 you will have your weapon if you do zuzu. After a set most people are generally only going to grind for glamour once they are done with that what else do they work towards?

Obviously some players will obtain a second set. Some will even obtain all the sets but at that point the pool of players gets even shorter.

Diadem is only being done because of Relics. If relics were somewhere else I am pretty sure the amount of players willing to run Diadem will be alot less..

Relics is what is holding this version of diadem together.

I honestly hope it'll die off entirely. People bitching about 'leechers' in the chats when the only real way to get EXP anymore is to 'join the fate train!' if you hope to catch up to the point where the no lifers rushed to. It's just another 'meta' players created because SE has handled Eureka beyond terribly. You only get EXP if NMs are too high of a level, and you never get to the low level ones because people refuse to wait for anyone, since it's all about them and no one else in an MMO RPG.

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Originally Posted by Shouko

That's not what they mean by will it last, they mean will players still continue to go there after it's lost its appeal. After 5.0 unless gathering and other stuff are added it will be dead as Diadem, people might be soloing content or small groups here n there but for the most part it will be an empty area.

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Eureka is a 4.0 event whose only porpuse is giving us a new weapon and gear. If you're doing it in 5.0 is just because you want a shiny glamour and thats all.

People here just want to talk shit about everything. 2.0 and 3.0 were full of "WAAAHHHH why are the steps so fucking long and seals dependent, I want it fast and easy" (Honestly it had always been a massive seals farming)

And now is "WAAHHH why is the first step so easy?? I wanted it to last longer!" (Yeah I know eureka is boring but is way better than be grinding seals for almost a month for a single step).

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Originally Posted by Wrothgar77

Here we are less than a week in, and we have a lot of lvl 20's already (heck, I was rolled back from 10 to 8, and still might make 20 before they restore my xp - I'm half way to 19 as it is).

Once we get 20, and get relic armor set or two, will it die? I was hoping it'd take a lot longer to get to max and grind this out :(

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I seriously doubt it. The content is not all that much fun in and of itself, particularly given the numerous and significant trade-offs imposed by the decision to construct Eureka as a cross-world instance.

The sad part is, it didn't need to be that way. Suppose, for instance, that SE had drawn more inspiration from the best piece of non-standard content released thus far: Palace of the Dead. Players could have entered at any level, not just 70; jobs could have leveled to 20 independently (with the grind shortened by 50-75% or so). Gear could have started at level 1 for armour / weapons, a la PotD, and different objectives could have been introduced to level it up for each job, independent of a player's Elemental Level. Characters could have received a non-Eureka XP bonus based on progress made within Eureka. Boom, now you have content with some serious shelf life - content that draws people in even if they've already finished Relics for their main job.

But, as usual, SE released the content with nary a thought paid to the future. They deserve significant criticism for this. It's one thing to rapidly deprecate content; it's something else again to cheerfully use said deprecation as an excuse to avoid paying any attention whatsoever to the long-term viability of a particular activity.

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Originally Posted by Mokkabron

Eureka is a 4.0 event whose only porpuse is giving us a new weapon and gear. If you're doing it in 5.0 is just because you want a shiny glamour and thats all.

People here just want to talk shit about everything. 2.0 and 3.0 were full of "WAAAHHHH why are the steps so fucking long and seals dependent, I want it fast and easy" (Honestly it had always been a massive seals farming)

And now is "WAAHHH why is the first step so easy?? I wanted it to last longer!" (Yeah I know eureka is boring but is way better than be grinding seals for almost a month for a single step).

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There is a yawning chasm between the insanely long, expensive, and boring grinds from Relic Weapons past (Atma, Light farming, etc.), and Eureka's 'woo I'm done in a week' scale. However, as with many things, the development team appears to lack the necessary skill to properly balance content: it's fast and easy or insanely long and difficult. Reading between the lines, it's not hard to see that the vast bulk of the player base wanted something in between both of those; a moderately long grind of moderate (but solo'able) difficulty.

Worst of all, of course, is the fact that not only did SE fail to hit this mark, they didn't seem to even make an effort to ask the community what they wanted. It's the story of FFXIV's development life cycle: SE makes decisions based almost entirely on internal factors (sales, marketing, dev team instincts), with nary a question posed to the community, nary a discussion had with the people paying them money every month. As has been said before, FFXIV is skating by almost entirely on the strength of the franchise name and the patience of its player base. This game with a different title would have gone F2P years ago.

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Originally Posted by Mokkabron

(Yeah I know eureka is boring but is way better than be grinding seals for almost a month for a single step).

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The thing is, you can farm seals on your own and at your own pace. If your internet goes down for a week, you'll still be able to farm the seals at the exact same pace once it comes back up. Not so much with Eureka where we already see people struggling to find parties. I personally know several people with several fully upgraded sets who aren't going to bother with the mode until the next patch. And then there's the "lvl 2 war lfg". The poor soul.

I fear for this game mode, especially if the next stages will be done in a new map, giving the higher levels no reason to revisit the old map. Unless they add some solo-friendly options, I truly fear how difficult it would be to play catchup later on, especially because even without the NM train, the intended method of operations seems to be to attack groups of mobs several levels above you. Why do I say this? Because in order to spawn the level 12 NM, the morbol, you had to take on level 17 mobs. My poor level 11 self got full credit and spoils from the NM; I barely scratched the mobs needed to spawn it. They'll HAVE to introduce solo-friendly options if this thing is to survive. Alternatively, be ready to revisit this place for the 5.0 relic just to keep it alive...

Unfortunately, not in its current state. Once you have the relic stuff you care about, you have literally no reason to ever look at Eureka again unless you still haven't gotten the mount. Of course, we'll get the next step but it'll be a much slower process grinding once more and more high level players funnel out. 3.45 is a long ways off.

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Originally Posted by Mokkabron

Eureka is a 4.0 event whose only porpuse is giving us a new weapon and gear. If you're doing it in 5.0 is just because you want a shiny glamour and thats all.

People here just want to talk shit about everything. 2.0 and 3.0 were full of "WAAAHHHH why are the steps so fucking long and seals dependent, I want it fast and easy" (Honestly it had always been a massive seals farming)

And now is "WAAHHH why is the first step so easy?? I wanted it to last longer!" (Yeah I know eureka is boring but is way better than be grinding seals for almost a month for a single step).

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I never disagreed with the grinding, I like grinding, I don't mind chit chatting with people, it's fun when it's relaxed and we sit there and do it for a while.

Don't like what you see, then just don't read it. I mean bitching about them bitching isn't going to help the situation any.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

There is a yawning chasm between the insanely long, expensive, and boring grinds from Relic Weapons past (Atma, Light farming, etc.), and Eureka's 'woo I'm done in a week' scale.

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Considering all steps of the previous relic has been done by some hardcore in mere days everytime, no there's not really. When the Nexus came out, people freaked out about how long it would take to gather the 2000 lights. Yet some people finished it the day after release.

You can't judge the average lifetime of a content by how long it takes for the fastest people to clear it.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

1. when people get high level they don't want to help low levels.

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When people get high level, they can't help low levels. The level gap causes the low levels to get literally zero XP from all normal mobs in the place.

It's not a matter of want. Eureka's design flat out punishes your group for helping once the gap gets to a certain point. It's exactly as pants on head stupid as it sounds.

It's a zerg fest so i do not see it lasting the remainder of 4.X, time well tell

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Originally Posted by Tridus

When people get high level, they can't help low levels. The level gap causes the low levels to get literally zero XP from all normal mobs in the place.

It's not a matter of want. Eureka's design flat out punishes your group for helping once the gap gets to a certain point. It's exactly as pants on head stupid as it sounds.

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Right. There should be an ability to group sync or just phase out exp the higher the level you are and keep them for lower players only. In fact I wouldn't mind helping lower level folks power level if I knew they would get full credit.

You know what would have kept this content on life support longer if they didn't only put 1/4 of the nms nostalgia weapons/armor. Where is ridill from fafnir? Joyeuse from the bishop? Even Algol from amarok would be nice. (Yes I know algol drops from cerberus but he is already used in world of darkness.) Doesn't help we can't even dye the stuff for real delayed this much and they couldn't even take the time to make them dye able.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

When people get high level, they can't help low levels. The level gap causes the low levels to get literally zero XP from all normal mobs in the place.

It's not a matter of want. Eureka's design flat out punishes your group for helping once the gap gets to a certain point. It's exactly as pants on head stupid as it sounds.

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Well this may explain why none want me in their groups as i am a little level 8.. :(

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Originally Posted by Maero

Well this may explain why none want me in their groups as i am a little level 8.. :(

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Yeah, this was a huge slap once I went as a lvl 17 to help my lvl 4 son and he got squat. That is very annoying.

Man so eureka is even more annoying now

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

If it dies quick it will be because people rushed it because they were affraid it would die quickly... self fulfilling prophecy...

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Definitely this – I know I did.
I think that 'fear of missing out' is what's adding to the dissatisfaction with it; I felt an enormous pressure that if I didn't get it all done quickly it would be immeasurably harder with time. That isn't conducive to fun game play. That said; now it's done and I have a handle on it I don't mind it so much. Self-fullinging prophecy.

So I did a really small experiment today - deliberately de-levelled from 20 back to 19. Did not regret it, will do again. Getting xp from nm's again was very satisfying. I might go so far as to de-level to 11 so I can level with my son.

Without a way for people entering into Eureka having a way to level quickly or alternate ways of getting the crystals (Ive seen suggestions of dailies or a weekly for exp and crystal gain). I see problems when a lot of the hardcore players get done. Though I have seen a number of people who enjoyed the grind of ff11 staying with this even though they have the gear they want. All end game is a grind we all know this I for one enjoy having another way to grind and have the nostalgia of ff11 helping me enjoy this

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Originally Posted by Tridus

When people get high level, they can't help low levels. The level gap causes the low levels to get literally zero XP from all normal mobs in the place.

It's not a matter of want. Eureka's design flat out punishes your group for helping once the gap gets to a certain point. It's exactly as pants on head stupid as it sounds.

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Why don't you consider the possibility of high level players making low level FATEs spawn in no time for low level players to get insane EXP? Why would grouping be exclusively for grinding trash and nothing else? FATEs themselves are enough to get to twenty in no time without the need to get trash XP at all.
I get that trash exp + FATE exp is the optimal way, but FATE exp alone is already good enough. So, if you can't get the "best" option, why not settle for the "good" one, which will get the job done anyway?

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Why don't you consider the possibility of high level players making low level FATEs spawn in no time for low level players to get insane EXP? Why would grouping be exclusively for grinding trash and nothing else? FATEs themselves are enough to get to twenty in no time without the need to get trash XP at all.
I get that trash exp + FATE exp is the optimal way, but FATE exp alone is already good enough. So, if you can't get the "best" option, why not settle for the "good" one, which will get the job done anyway?

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I don't think SE expected a train and I would venture to guess that will be changing soon enough as they modify how experience is awarded in the future. And yeah I've done nothing but train on an alt and couldn't understand why I couldn't do the level 3 quest. It was because i never got a protean crystal and I had reached level 6.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Definitely this – I know I did.
I think that 'fear of missing out' is what's adding to the dissatisfaction with it; I felt an enormous pressure that if I didn't get it all done quickly it would be immeasurably harder with time. That isn't conducive to fun game play. That said; now it's done and I have a handle on it I don't mind it so much. Self-fullinging prophecy.

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It's not really a self-fulfilling prophecy if it's made to get worse by design, all gear in the game has the same problem. Unless you are only in it for glamour, every second you don't have your gear is a second closer to it being obsolete.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I don't think SE expected a train and I would venture to guess that will be changing soon enough as they modify how experience is awarded in the future.

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Which is odd because it's not like this hasn't happened before. Several times in fact.