FFXIV's current state

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Relic was stated as casual friendly farming for a strong shiny legendary weapon that will never be the best (before the end, the last step is often one of the mot powerfull weapon available) but still enough to clear any of the end-game fight, its not something people just pull out of their hat.

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The previous relics were. Eureka is not, and we knew from the very beginning that this relic would be tied to Eureka. Besides, it was delayed more and more so that the tome weapon is better almost all the time.
There's not even any lore behind the weapons now.

Yup, and its another reason for people to hate it.... They are a really good sub-BiS weapon for C A S U A L player who barely do any raid. The problem is not the weapon its how Eureka is a terrible way to get them.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

They are a really good sub-BiS weapon for C A S U A L player who barely do any raid.

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That's the purpose of Tome weapon. Seriously, since those exist, Relics are not the "casual" weapon. And it's been almost 4 years now, maybe it's time to be up-to date.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's the purpose of Tome weapon. Seriously, since those exist, Relics are not the "casual" weapon. And it's been almost 4 years now, maybe it's time to be up-to date.

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Why can't you let people having choice ?

What if this weapon have stats better suit me ? Like IDK the crit cap and a nice DH bonus who beat the crap out of those dirty skillspeed/deter weapon I have to deal with.

What if I like to actualy make a beautiful weapon by myslef for the sake of vanity ?

You're not ready for the s***tstorm the disapperance of relic weapon would cause.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Please do. Give them more participation numbers to Eureka so that they'll continue doing stuff like this.

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believe diasdeam was required for the relic in hw and once it was done the content died so uhh no. Thats not how this works that's not how any of this works. You really need to learn about the game you are playing.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Why can't you let people having choice ?

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You have a choice between different weapons. Why doesn't anyone complain that the savage weapon is only available if you do Savage ? Or the Deep Dungeon weapon ? Or the primal weapons ?

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Originally Posted by Nariel

What if this weapon have stats better suit me ? Like IDK the crit cap and a nice DH bonus who beat the crap out of those dirty skillspeed/deter weapon I have to deal with. What if I like to actualy make a beautiful weapon by myslef for the sake of vanity ?

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If you want the weapon so much that you're ready to do a content you despise, this means that SE's move was just brilliantly smart.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

You're not ready for the s***tstorm the disapperance of relic weapon would cause.

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The relic lost its value back in HW, by always being so late that it was mostly weaker than Primal weapons.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

believe diadeam was required for the relic in hw and once it was done the content died so uhh no. Thats not how this works that's not how any of this works. You really need to learn about the game you are playing.

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No, it died once they removed the Diadem requirement...But please, keep proving that you can't even understand how all of this went.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

If you want the weapon so much that you're ready to do a content you despise, this means that SE's move was just brilliantly smart.

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are you even aware that devs don't do bad feature on purpose ?

I'm pretty sure last years when its been put on the table they though it was a good idea and people will totaly enjoy it.

For the rest of you answers... I... Just... WTF dude ? Are you even sure you understand the problem people get with Eureka ? What is the point your trying to make anyway ?!

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Originally Posted by Nariel

are you even aware that devs don't do bad feature on purpose ?

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Not bad, but definitely things that they don't have complete confidence in. Especially since they have to deal with JP, NA and EU mentalities.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Not bad, but definitely things that they don't have complete confidence in.

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Yeah... I can totaly imagine the staff going :

Hey guys lets put millions and month of work even if we have to reduce the quantity of other dugeon in a feature player can't stand but will maybe work well because we will put the relic they quite like in it.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Hey guys lets put millions and month of work even if we have to reduce the quantity of other dugeon in a feature player can't stand but will maybe work well because we will put the relic they quite like in it.

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Hey guys, we did Diadem last expansion, and it didn't go well. I really want to do another wide open instance, but if we really want it to work, we'd better give a higher incentive for people to run it.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Are you even sure you understand the problem people get with Eureka ? What is the point your trying to make anyway ?!

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I do, but the reasoning is dumb. If you don't like a content, just don't do it. People just need to realize that different content caters for different taste, so Eureka might not be for them. If you value the relic that much that you still do it, you only have yourself to blame.
For example, I despise tome farming, so if the Relic would require thousands of tomestones again, I'd simply wouldn't do it. And if you could buy the current relic with Tomestone, it would just kill Eureka, because people are lazy.

I just can't.

I don't see your point, what are you even trying to say ?

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Originally Posted by Nariel

I just can't.

I don't see your point, what are you even trying to say ?

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He's saying that the Developers do the same mistakes over and over, is it that hard to understand? Like really, lol!

Yeah they do.

They totaly forget their key rule from 2.0.

So, all this rambling about everything about the actual relic is bad just of this ? Sure many things are bad about it but not every single thing is good for the trash-can so what ? people shouldn't play nor getting their relic just because it validate some bad choice ?

I'm not naive to the point of thinking they will just spend hundred-tousands of dollars just to redo all the relic process now. They'll nerf it to the ground anyway.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

I just can't.
I don't see your point, what are you even trying to say ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

If you don't like a content, just don't do it.

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I don't see how that's hard to understand...

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Originally Posted by Nariel

people shouldn't play nor getting their relic just because it validate some bad choice ?

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That's the problem, you think that everybody hates it because you don't. And you come here whining even though you have all the other content at your disposal to match your view of the game.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's the problem, you think that everybody hates it because you don't. And you come here whining even though you have all the other content at your disposal to match your view of the game.

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It is not for you to make assumption about how many people like or dislike one piece of content (even though you're sorely mistaken if you believe eureka is well designed or loved by a silent majority). The forums are a place where people can provide feedback regarding the content, so hopefully the next iteration of said content can be improved. Only a fool would call people out for providing feedback on a particular piece of content, if in the process it can lead to improvements. See what did happen with the release of 1.0 and the alpha/beta forums of that era (people were white knighting all day on the alpha/beta forums, and we all know where that did lead the game).

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

It is not for you to make assumption about how many people like or dislike one piece of content (even though you're sorely mistaken if you believe eureka is well designed or loved by a silent majority).

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That's the thing, I'm not the one making assumption here. I've never claimed what "most people" think of Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

The forums are a place where people can provide feedback regarding the content, so hopefully the next iteration of said content can be improved.

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There's nothing wrong with feedback, but "Most people dislike it so it should be deleted" is not a feedback, it's a void claim based on a vocal minority.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

See what did happen with the release of 1.0 and the alpha/beta forums of that era (people were white knighting all day on the alpha/beta forums, and we all know where that did lead the game).

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1.0's future wasn't decided by a few people posting on forums, it was decided by a massive poll and a huge drop in active playerbase.

If, at the end of Stormblood, we see that only 1% of the playerbase actually finished their Eureka weapon, then the content will be a failure, regardless of my opinion. But, funnily enough, if Eureka ends up having a huge participation number, no haters I've came across will actually admit that it's a worthy content for the game, simply not for them, like could be PvP, Gold Saucer, or any alternate content.

That's why I strongly suggest to people who don't like Eureka to not do it, so that their feedback will appear on statistics.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Sure, it's just so much better to reuse the marvelous concept of "straigth line with 3 circle rooms for bosses" and "why put effort into dungeons since people always end up running the roulette because there's nothing to do besides tome farming" for each patch since 2013.

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Eureka is hardly new and inventive content. For the most part it is a rebranded Diadem without the advantages Diadem had to break up the monotony by being able to do something besides kill mobs. SE even managed to exploit the unseen AoE and invisible targets through the game's garbage wonderful object culling algorithm.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

Eureka is hardly new and inventive content.

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For me, it was more engaging than doing roulettes after roulettes, like I do for 5 years, especially that other main way of gearing already ask you to do that. There's no point in having multiple gear that you can "buy" with same currency.
But again, it has its flaws and could surely be improved.

I'm quite sure, I did said some people like it and its good for them, I don't ask for Eureka to change I just don't like the fact that our relic is tied to it cause its by a large margin boring to the point a "I damn hate this piece of crap eureka" pop every day (Ok a bit exagerating) while I don't remember a single post with a lot of good review of it that praise it, saying most people don't like it is not a strange assumption to make.

Relic is the only thing that keep it alive and only because people can cheese the grind, without the relic in this AND the train, I'd never go inside and never complaigned about it just like PvP. Want a proof ? Staff had to revive the train cause Pagos was emptying at an alarming rate. Yeah you know the train, not the way its was intended to be played. We even loose Gerolt in the process, poor guy being a standard NPC now, for the sake of "Its not gonna be like diadem, its more oldschool you'll see its so fun people barely play those game nowaday".

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

For me, it was more engaging than doing roulettes after roulettes, like I do for 5 years, especially that other main way of gearing already ask you to do that. There's no point in having multiple gear that you can "buy" with same currency.
But again, it has its flaws and could surely be improved.

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But there isn't a lot they can do to improve it. It is FATE based content no matter how you slice it and FATE based content is despised by a large part of the US player base (I don't know enough about the other centers to now if they have similar feelings). I think it is fine that you like Eureka but a large number of the player base, including Japan, doesn't.

I understand SE is trying to come up with some form of open world progression. Due to their poor platform they have to move that into an instance and even there they hit system limits because they have too many people in the instance for it to perform decently. They won't make them smaller because they don't want to spend the money on hardware. If SE really wants to have more open world progression, which I could get behind, they need to improve the underlying platform and quit trying to shoehorn it into a format that the players don't like. In a nutshell they need to be serious about doing it and spend the money required for it to be successful.

Eureka is bad, because it encourages the player community to be more toxic. You don't see people starting fights over Verminion or Chocobo racing. There's a difference between optional content that can 'safely' be ignored, and optional content that emotionally manipulates people into thinking 'they have to do it.' And that kind of content is toxic for the community.

Square Enix knows people will go through great lengths to complete their relic. But when those challenges are hidden behind optional content of which people don't like--they'll get resentful that they felt forced to do content they hate to achieve the goal they're after (the relic). It stops becoming about playing for fun and running what you enjoy, but more about wasting your time chasing after a reward, and then being angry and bitter the whole journey. Square-Enix should be responsible for laying down the roadwork for a well-meaning and cooperative community--rather than purposely taking advantage of people's emotional short-comings and pitting them against each other.

Eureka should have been released without the Relic. That way people who enjoy Eureka for what it is--can do Eureka. And those who don't can avoid it. Just tie the relic to something everyone gets passively like Poetics. Remove rewards from Eureka!

You purposely are nitpicking everything everyone has said and ignoring the fact that everyone has said they DID NOT ASK FOR ANOTHER FATE GRIND. Along with the factor that you get your "love" for pagos and eureka from the forums here, most of the player base uses Reddit because of forum restrictions, if you cannot read how much hate people have for this content due to your blind love and turning a blind eye to what people are saying they hate about it. Also relic never was meant for just the raiders, it was casual intended saying that people shouldn't be going for it that is casual is just rude. And i dont know about you but many high end raiders tend to use the relic for Prog in the savages but now they are using primal weapons. I'm waiting for you to nitpick this statement like you have the others.

Happy to oblige :

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Originally Posted by Niraye

You purposely are nitpicking everything everyone has said and ignoring the fact that everyone has said they DID NOT ASK FOR ANOTHER FATE GRIND.

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Stop talking for the whole playerbase when you don't know.

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Originally Posted by Niraye

Along with the factor that you get your "love" for pagos and eureka from the forums here

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Yeah, I have, but I've never tried to convince anyone to actually love it. Just suggesting to not do it if you don't and let those who love it enjoy, since you have other options for gearing.

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Originally Posted by Niraye

Also relic never was meant for just the raiders

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It was never meant for raiders.

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Originally Posted by Niraye

it was casual intended saying that people shouldn't be going for it that is casual is just rude.

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Not this one, and Yoshi-P was the one saying not everybody will want to roam Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Niraye

And i dont know about you but many high end raiders tend to use the relic for Prog in the savages but now they are using primal weapons.

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Considering Primal weapons existed from the start of Heavensward, they had 3 years to move on.

As my last post in this joke of a debate, I'll say what I said yesterday in Pagos to put an end to a boring disagreement between the one who love doing pagos and a lot of other who was just poking fun to Pagos out of boreness.

You enjoy Eureka ? Great, have "fun" at your heart content.

We don't enjoy it so we trash it to alleviate the pain ? Great, let us be salty about it.

We "eureka hater" fill up the place for our beloved weapon at the cost of fun, consider the hate pumping this train like a fair price for you to don't roam this instance alone.

Yeah yeah your not alone silent eureka lovers and all + people that don't care we are so few hater nobody can hear nor see us anywhere, its an obvious exageration, being alone or 12 in a 144 personne instance is kinda lonely. Yup I pull those number out of my a**, but its was Pagos without a train, random assumption too deal with it cause I don't care enough about blind white Knight to pursue this boring deaf discussion.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

1.0's future wasn't decided by a few people posting on forums, it was decided by a massive poll and a huge drop in active playerbase.

If, at the end of Stormblood, we see that only 1% of the playerbase actually finished their Eureka weapon, then the content will be a failure, regardless of my opinion. But, funnily enough, if Eureka ends up having a huge participation number, no haters I've came across will actually admit that it's a worthy content for the game, simply not for them, like could be PvP, Gold Saucer, or any alternate content.

That's why I strongly suggest to people who don't like Eureka to not do it, so that their feedback will appear on statistics.

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Hard to make it a fair comparison though because relic is gated behind Eureka. People may totally hate the content but do it simply to get their relic. Yoshi-P and the dev really need to drop a poll out at the end of an expansion life cycle so they can simple and honest feedback on what players liked and what they hated in SB.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

People may totally hate the content but do it simply to get their relic.

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Sorry, but that's one thing I don't understand. Even if the reward is interesting (And frankly, more and more people admit that the relic is so late that it's close to useless for anything except glamour), there's no way I would punish myself with a content I despise.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Yoshi-P and the dev really need to drop a poll out at the end of an expansion life cycle so they can simple and honest feedback on what players liked and what they hated in SB.

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They sure should.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

But there isn't a lot they can do to improve it.

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Actually, I think they can, and, ironically enough, several ideas should be taken directly from FFXI.

I personally don't think the FATE train is the real culprit in Eureka, but the fact that grinding outside of the train is very tedious. So, you could include something that could be called Elemental Quests, inspired by the Fields Of Valor from FFXI. Basically, a small quest that requires you to kill a certain types of mobs, rewards you with Xp, Cristals and Coffers and is set on auto-repeat. And the more you repeat it, the higher the rewards get. It would make low-man far less cumbersome until you reach a level where you can navigate comfortably and join the train.

Another option, which is a given, is a level sync diretly from the party menu. I still don't understand how they missed this...

And the last one is not really to make Eureka smoother now, but into the future, for people who might want to experience it during 5.0. You remove the Elvl sync of the zones, and you treat every NM like a Hunt mark or create items to pop weaker version of them. So, again, even if you go solo, you'll be able to kill any targets as soon as you reach an appropriate level to gather more Crystals.