Dev blog: New Feast rewards

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Originally Posted by Aviars

SE is perfectly fine with rewarding people for having talent/skill

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Yeah sure, "skill and talent"
Completly disregarding the fact that a lot of people in the top 100 got a terrible winrate but just had that much time on their hands to pour into the feast and managed to rank only thanks to the amount of matches they played.
If there was a finite numbers ot matches each season I would be inclined to agree about being skill based (although if you're going with a pld/whm combo not that much skill is involved) but right now giving these for only 100 people regardless of how crowded some datacenters are it's just more a game of who got more time to sink into this. And if you're not among the 100 that had that much time you just wasted yours.

So yeah, with all the raid content getting insanely easier once irrelvant and gear being even craftable I don't see why it's such a big deal for irrelevant pvp reward to be kept completly locked out.

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Originally Posted by Crescents

Okay you're comparing PvE content with competitive content. theres no clearly structured "winners" in raid tiers you are comparing two totally different types of content. taking the lone wolf coat or the hellhound mount and putting it in the achievement store is saying "hey remember how you competed to be top 100? yeah we're just giving those away because people are whining on the forums" because when it was released it was told to everyone at the same time "hey you can compete in this new pvp season and win this!" its not the rest of our fault you chose not to compete. You can go back to Alexander savage and get the same rewards not but albeit easier you're still clearing the same content. Which is why I'd be okay with with it being available for wolf collars since it's still competing in ranked pvp.

Fanfest outfits arent comparable, you cant compare spending 18$ to winning a competition, although I still think the tattoo is an accurate comparison both are a reward for taking part in certain content neither should be widely distributed.

If you're so annoyed with how little these rewards are seen compete this season and then you can see the mount everyday, they competed, they earned these rewards its not their fault you chose not to compete, also how can you compare garo of all things to RANKED pvp You could maybe make these arguments for casual pvp, but im sorry we shouldnt be giving out ranked PvP rewards for anything but taking part in ranked PvP SE already gives into people too much letting them get anything without effort simply for waiting I hope they dont do it for this and I dont think they will.

And im sorry, but you just come off really entitled that you want something other people worked hard for because you think you deserve it? it's a nice mount sure but its meant to signify a win over hundreds of other people how would you feel if you worked really hard for something and someone complained on the forums and was given something that took you months of play 5+ hours a day and unbelievable amounts of stress just because they wanted it?



THANK YOU.

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ok lets go point by point though this again.


'Okay you're comparing PvE content with competitive content. theres no clearly structured "winners" in raid tiers you are comparing two totally different types of content'

so by your logic SE should not promote parties who cleared savage raids or the ultimate raids (which they have done) the idea for 'world first' to you in this example you have given me is as worthless as the top pvp players.also yes i shall compare PVE content to PVP , for one simple and easy regard, it is due to the mechanics of the system and how rewards are given to the whole, to cherry pick into one corner while blocking your ears to the rest doesn't give a full scope into what the issue is,

' taking the lone wolf coat or the hellhound mount and putting it in the achievement store is saying "hey remember how you competed to be top 100? yeah we're just giving those away because people are whining on the forums"'

"hey remember that outfit we gave you for spending hundreds if not thousands of your local currency to come see us for the day as a thank you were giving it to everyone on the mog store because they wanted it"
"hey remember that Fenrir you want that costs 1 million MGP that you grinned for ever for, well were putting it in the recruit a friend area so people who don't know what to spend feathers on can get it"

i can do this as well, but allow me to phrase it this way. there have been multiple items from achievements that have been given a simple recolour or a very SLIGHT change to them then given out by other means, one example is the golden magitek, you can feel good in your golden magitek, while others are in black red and white,

this is what i was advertising for in mine, as i stated give the pvp players a Glowing or a unique shine, with a dulled out one to others after a couple patches, which with this game is basically a full years exclusivity.

'because when it was released it was told to everyone at the same time "hey you can compete in this new pvp season and win this!" its not the rest of our fault you chose not to compete.'

for seasons 1 2 and 3 the time they told the rewards was after the season had started, they showed the promise for a reward and then showed the reward later, this time they have shown the reward again after the start. while on your servers pvp is still active on the datacenter i am from i have been queued into pvp since i started typing and only got into ONE match, i can choose to compete and i have, but as time goes on the incentive to continue becomes harder when the queue to join takes longer then i can give to the game due to life.

'You can go back to Alexander savage and get the same rewards not but albeit easier you're still clearing the same content. Which is why I'd be okay with with it being available for wolf collars since it's still competing in ranked pvp.'

Again i agree with this compromise of it being available via wolf collars, like i said last time, this is a good compromise that i agree with, but as i said you also agree for another means to gain said items. as for the alexander part, now your comparing PvE to PVP which you didn't like me doing but i do still agree when the rewards are a longer lasting item to get. and wolf tokens are something that arnt impossible to gain it is more incentive and good.

i have no disagreements here.

'Fanfest outfits arent comparable, you cant compare spending 18$ to winning a competition, although I still think the tattoo is an accurate comparison both are a reward for taking part in certain content neither should be widely distributed.'

by the logic your going with the meteor tattoo then i can still use the mog outfit as a comparison, and the original Mog outfit was a solid exclusive to people who were physically attending the event until one month prior where they then gave it to the online watchers, this was met with heavy backlash. which is why it is still a amp comparison. you can also then look at the butler and maid outfits a 'competition' in the real world. those sets are now available per person on the mog station, it may not be the exact same type of competition but both are gained though a competition in different regons of the world.

'If you're so annoyed with how little these rewards are seen compete this season and then you can see the mount everyday, they competed, they earned these rewards its not their fault you chose not to compete, also how can you compare garo of all things to RANKED pvp You could maybe make these arguments for casual pvp, but im sorry we shouldnt be giving out ranked PvP rewards for anything but taking part in ranked PvP SE already gives into people too much letting them get anything without effort simply for waiting I hope they dont do it for this and I dont think they will.'

The first part is a repetition for the point made above.

Why compare GARO. because GARO was only meant to be gained though the means of PVP which by the logic you went with should be the only means to which access the sets, they were then put into the gold saucer another forms of accessibility. this is why i use that set, it proves a point. just because it is RANKED pvp or a PVP EXCLUSIVE set means no true difference, all RANKED things mean is a recorded stat added to you, the mounts are PVP exclusive and then once that distinction is made it then falls into the same category as the Garo gears.

I could make this arguement for casual PVP but theres a slight difference, Casual pvp Achivements and gear is still accessible for everyone though normal means, and are not solely in a limited run with no means to gear or anything that remotely looks close. i still agree on the ADS mount achievement though it is harder to get it is still possible for me to get it today tomorrow a year from now and a new player to start and get it themselves.

again i repeat i aint saying for the mount to be made for everyone but for a different version for everyone, or though another means, let there drip with blood or glow with fire be GOLDEN while the one for the other means doesn't glow or is a different colour, its still 'exclusive' and show off=y but it isn't lost forever once it is done.

the last part is up to SE using the examples i gave they tend to change there minds on things, while you can argue on the point of them not changing there mind i believe we can agree that our compromise is possibly the best solution, or agree to disagree.

'And im sorry, but you just come off really entitled that you want something other people worked hard for because you think you deserve it? it's a nice mount sure but its meant to signify a win over hundreds of other people'

first the 'entitled' part is not a good argument, by rights i can say the same to you it won't get us anywhere, personally i feel like this discussion has brought up good points and a civil debate between us so far has shown both our thoughts and ideals there no need to muddy that water with a title that tends to just be "your entitled so i don't want to talk to you" stance, but to continue at no point did i say to give it in a way to everyone to say 'screw you' to the work. at the moment we don't have a grasp onto how the achievement currency are earned. they could put it in there for 500 tokens. i doubt no-one has that many and if they do it is probably a small minority. so by your logic should you say screw them and all they have done, and again, make those who did win, give there version of the mount something unique to them.

' how would you feel if you worked really hard for something and someone complained on the forums and was given something that took you months of play 5+ hours a day and unbelievable amounts of stress just because they wanted it?'

i point back to the dreadwyrm set as my example onto this, and for what they did with ultimate coils. i worked hard, and got my sets for them to become crafted and dyeable, and i thought that it was ok because by then the exclusive 'i did good' vibe wore out.

i think it is a brilliant idea what they did for ultimate coils, to give the gear a glow to stand out, and THAT IS WHY i think the pvp mounts should have the same thing, ANYONE could get the dreadwyrm gear and look good, but they have the shiny version.

they have shown and put in a way that most people agree with it, yet this is the part most disagree on they can do what they have already done.


'THANK YOU.'

while i know this wasn't aimed at me, but i should say thank you, as i said above i think this debate has shown what both sides think so far, i do agree with the compromise as stated above in this post, Weather it be for the achievement shop or the wolf collars shop there is a common middle ground between our views to where we both agree it should be put.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Nice how your examples of SE adding items for the general population only apply to items that weren't part of a contest.

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Butler attire and maid attire are in the mogstation and were part of a contest irl.

The Korean and Chinese exclusive mounts and outfits as well if you wish for me to use ones that they fully intended to keep to those reasons specifically

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Originally Posted by Aviars

I also like how you include items like the dreadwyrm set that you could get in a un-synced raid quite easily.

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i used this as an example that goes with there intent as you have, this point is still valid the fact you can do it easily today doesn't mean they intended it to be gained though other means.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

NPC outfits were never available until SE decided to release them, and again, weren't part of a contest that involved talent/skill or anything of a similar nature

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this goes against your SE intended it in your last post, with this you changed your wording to be more spisific so i shall repeat my earlier point the butler and maid outfit were part of a 'contest' for a real life collection, this is within the definition of a contest. that is now available to others, to say i am now focusing on something that isn't pvp is mainly down to your argument coming down to pure semantics. i have said the outfits with there original intention, and what they have done since. this regardless of the content is no different.




Also to end this off @Crescents i do thank you for this little debate, hopefully it enlightens others who read it, though we may not agree on this, i do like the compromise you came up with.

I have to agree with DracotheDragon. Using Wolf Collars has a lot of potential and it is a good way to promote The Feast. It is a win win situation for everyone, let say if you got to the top 100 you automatically get the mount, if you are just a casual player and want to get a mount, you can buy it for 20 collars. Which means you have to play not just one but a lot of Feast Seasons (depending on the rank you get). This will encourage everyone to try Feast and who knows we may see new blood that will go to the top. Just like with Garo, FL became relevant again because of that. And lastly for the collectors who buys their merchandise just to collect minions/mounts it will give them more reason to never stop spending their money on vanity hahaha.
Top 100 – instant mount reward
Casual players – Need XX number of collars to get previous mount rewards
More players to play the feast, the faster the queue time.
Just my opinion, please be gentle. :)

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Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

Just my opinion, please be gentle. :)

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i was wondering if i should put a TL DR so people didn't need to go though the WALLS and you basically summed it up thanks :P

to add why not a shiny or glowing one for the top 100 and a non glowing for wolf collars as well :P that way it is still exclusive to them with some bonus's

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Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

Just my opinion, please be gentle. :)

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Honestly, this is a good compromise it could even drum up interest for the dying PvP community, seeing how most people think "I'll never reach that why even bother..? and as long as people have to take part in the feast and get it much slower and its a better alternative than the models eventually being used in a dungeon or something.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

to add why not a shiny or glowing one for the top 100 and a non glowing for wolf collars as well :P that way it is still exclusive to them with some bonus's

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The best rewards for The Feast in my "opinion" are titles, good looking gear and weapons that stand out. You can use them anywhere. In dungeons, raids, PVP and people can see you with those items data center wide. Unlike with mounts, you can just brag it on your server only and just the world map not even cities.

Do you guys really need to debate this at beginning of every season?
This is a topic where PvE and PvP will never reach an agreement.
Just one simple question, if gear from God Kefkka can be obtain from weekly tome, how would PvE community react?

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Just one simple question, if gear from God Kefkka can be obtain from weekly tome, how would PvE community react?

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That's why I said they should use Wolf Collar, do you know what is that? it is rewarded by the end of the season and the lowest amount you will get is 3 (for bronze). So if the requirement is like 20. Imagine how many years before you will get it. :P

I think it is a fair trade. Anyway that's all. GL to everyone who will try their luck with the next season.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Do you guys really need to debate this at beginning of every season?
This is a topic where PvE and PvP will never reach an agreement.
Just one simple question, if gear from God Kefkka can be obtain from weekly tome, how would PvE community react?

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Horrible comparison people keep committing to. PvE content and its rewards will always be there for players to try in the future. And technically gear better than God Kefka will be avaliable by weekly tomes within a few months. So that's not only pretty normal but everyone accepts it. If you want to validate PvP rewards being unique, the way they are right now, you have to try harder.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

Horrible comparison people keep committing to. PvE content and its rewards will always be there for players to try in the future. And technically gear better than God Kefka will be avaliable by weekly tomes within a few months. So that's not only pretty normal but everyone accepts it. If you want to validate PvP rewards being unique, the way they are right now, you have to try harder.

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First of all, I support the idea for exclusive PvP reward and secondly, I just find this is pointless argument at beginning every season.
PvP side also need to get off their high horse.
Solo queue Feast is just a training mode for Arena in WoW.
It is competitive but it is also mostly a time sink with RNG involved, it is not really true skill based.
We don't have enough people to get party feast going where true skill is.
Therefore, we need to get more people switch from PvE to PvP.
All you need to do is politely tell them: "No thanks, PvP exclusive reward should stay exclusive to PvP, but we are welcoming you and help you to participate"
Help them to join the Feast inside showing our toxicity side.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

First of all, I support the idea for exclusive PvP reward and secondly, I just find this is pointless argument at beginning every season.
PvP side also need to get off their high horse.
Solo queue Feast is just a training mode for Arena in WoW.
It is competitive but it is also mostly a time sink with RNG involved, it is not really true skill based.
We don't have enough people to get party feast going where true skill is.
Therefore, we need to get more people switch from PvE to PvP.
All you need to do is politely tell them: "No thanks, PvP exclusive reward should stay exclusive to PvP, but we are welcome you help you participate"
Help them to join the Feast inside showing our toxicity side.

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Not sure how having rewards they can't get will encourage a meaningful number of people to try the feast, this is the main issue with the current rewards. I don't remember seeing any if these discussions with the last two seasons.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Not sure how having rewards they can't get will encourage a meaningful number of people to try the feast, this is the main issue with the current rewards. I don't remember seeing any if these discussions with the last two seasons.

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4.0 already lower the skill gap, this is really not a legitimate excuse.
All there is left is if you are willing to try.

Of all the carrots to put on a stick. I had hoped this to me a msq mount eventually, as it'd suit my alt way more than my main. Like hell I'll be spamming feast on an alt when eureka is finally coming out. heres to hoping theres a recolor somewhere down the line :c

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

I'm a tad upset that the season is starting the same time as Eureka, as I truly wanted to dive headfirst into that new content.

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They have a gross habit of doing this with a lot of Feast seasons.

They start the new season at the same time they launch a new Frontlines mode or some new PvE content that people want to try/focus on rewards from. Honestly, I would think they'd release new Feast seasons during their content lulls between patches to keep people busy, but for some reason they don't. which in turn leads to this issue:

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

...the fact that a lot of people in the top 100 got a terrible winrate but just had that much time on their hands to pour into the feast and managed to rank only thanks to the amount of matches they played...it's just more a game of who got more time to sink into this. And if you're not among the 100 that had that much time you just wasted yours.

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Given how Feast queues noticeably die down after the first week or two, you often have to pick between committing to constantly queuing up for the Feast at the start of the season and put everything else on the backburner, or vice versa and slog through slower queues to try to climb the ranks.

https://i.imgur.com/QL8Bnjm.gif

Well... if that's the case, considering Eureka sounds pretty bad to me, I guess I'll put on the PVP pants and hit the Feast.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Snip.

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I'm pro PvP only rewards as well. I just have a different view over it. Everytime the discussion leans towards asking it to have PvE variants and I've always disagreed with it. My reasoning is that the way the system is right now, it doesn't work. You can go back and read my posts about it. I also don't want rewards for 8v8 either. I agree on 4v4 exclusive rewards because it was a mode meant for competition, but not on the way they work at this given time. With the increase number of players, keeping rewards to 100 per datacenter is not only terrible but a discouragement to the vast majority, preventing the PvP to grow. The system should help the player get into PvP by incentive rewarding them for smaller achievements while they strive to get better and pursue bigger ones later, and not only have big ones.

We both agee more than disagree to be honest. I just had to debunk the PvE comparison because it's one I always see and it's a bad one. Plus its always used by both sides in a way or another and I hate it. The modes are differents, its rewards and incentives should be different by nature.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

The system should help the player get into PvP by incentive rewarding them for smaller achievements while they strive to get better and pursue bigger ones later, and not only have big ones.

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Rewards for smaller achievements, such as:

Gloria-class Airship
Black ADS
White ADS
Harambe mount
Faepup
Hellpup
Field Commander set

The incentives aren't enough to get people to play PvP, because PvP in this game is just so horrible right now.

Most of those are not applicable to Feast. And with the increase of game's population why the higher achievements keep locked to a small number of people while smaller achievements stopped following the growth? Specially when the minion ones were only implemented because of generalized complaints. I didn't even agree with those back then. You also forgot to mention the best of the smaller achievement's rewards: tokens for weapon purchase.

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Originally Posted by Kisama

The incentives aren't enough to get people to play PvP, because PvP in this game is just so horrible right now.

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You seem to understand what I mean though, to some degree. I'm thankful for that.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Yeah sure, "skill and talent"
Completly disregarding the fact that a lot of people in the top 100 got a terrible winrate but just had that much time on their hands to pour into the feast and managed to rank only thanks to the amount of matches they played.

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You realize percentages are relative to your respective rank right?

having 50% at low plat isn't the same as 50% at diamond

you can also have a artificially low winrate due to the fact you play a lot. Say you hit a brick wall at 3000 rating and break even on games at that point? the more games you play the lower your winrate gets.

You can also argue that people who play a lot of games naturally get better at the game. Oh that must be a foreign concept to you

So please stop pointing to winrates as a indication of skill, learn what percentages mean and get back to me

I also await the impending whine threads asking for these rewards from the gear design contests to appear in the mogstation

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...bb881c4948f8ab

I just want everyone here to be consistent ok!?

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Originally Posted by Aviars

learn what percentages mean and get back to me

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Oh sure go ahead explain to me why the diamond guy that got 354 victory over 751 matches is more skilled than the diamond guy 153 victory over 225 matches. because that's how this system work.

You can rank with a winrate under 50% meaning you lost more than half of your matches. Just because you had more time to sink into it which is my point.

That's plain stupid, if you want to bring up skill then everyone should have the same number of matches.

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Originally Posted by Corue

Instead of mount music you get to hear him yell "MY WORD THIS DATA" over and over. Please look forward to it.

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Expanding off of this idea- when the mount is idle, you hear Aulus say 'my word this data!' in varied stretched out, quiet low-pitch sounds of the voice clip. While in movement or flying, you hear 'my word this data!' played at double speed in varied high-pitched tones.

Personally, I don't care what they give for Feast participation. I would never do ranked PvP in this game anyway, so it affects me none. But I do feel that it's kind of a waste considering the current state of PvP. Those rewards might be better off included elsewhere for the time being.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Oh sure go ahead explain to me why the plat guy that got 354 victory over 751 matches is more skilled than the plat guy 153 victory over 225 matches. because that's how this system work.

You can rank with a winrate under 50% meaning you lost more than half of your matches. Just because you had more time to sink into it which is my point.

That's plain stupid, if you want to bring up skill then everyone should have the same number of matches.

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It does matter when you win and lose games

For a extreme example lets say you lose 200 games at 0 rating and obviously as a result you have 0 rating. Then say you win 75 games in a row and win the average 25 points per game. Wow imagine that, you now have a sub 50% win-rate with a high platinum rating.


you can also say that losses in lower tiers harm your rating less than losses in higher tiers, if you start to get all of your losses in platinum or diamond then you will basically lose your progress when you get a loss compared to gold and lower. This is especially true in the beginning of the season where everyone starts at zero to matchmaking is more volatile.

Also champ. There is no PVP game that limits the amount of games you are allowed to play in a respective season. it would be even more nonsensical to do it in a game mode that starts everyone's ratings at zero, cause then people would want to wait until the ratings settle to make their rating push.

There is a reason why your type of thinking isn't utilized buddy.

I'm tired of cheaters getting the pvp rewards and people sitting on their rating.

Institute rating decay please SE!

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Originally Posted by Kisama

Rewards for smaller achievements, such as:

Gloria-class Airship
Black ADS
White ADS
Harambe mount
Faepup
Hellpup
Field Commander set

The incentives aren't enough to get people to play PvP, because PvP in this game is just so horrible right now.

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Ugh, the Field Commander Set is locked behind a PvP mode that no one does anymore. :( People jump in the PvP train to get these and then forget about it, like almost every piece of content. The Garo event kinda helped, since there were SO many sets, titles and rewards tied to it...

I still don't understand why SE is not capitalizing on wolf collars to promote feast. hahaha should I post a thread about that?

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Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

I still don't understand why SE is not capitalizing on wolf collars to promote feast. hahaha should I post a thread about that?

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ALL OF THIS

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Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

I still don't understand why SE is not capitalizing on wolf collars to promote feast. hahaha should I post a thread about that?

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You can already buy weapons with wolf collars?

you act like they exist for no reason.

Top 100 and wolf collars are for different things champ

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Originally Posted by Aviars

You can already buy weapons with wolf collars?

you act like they exist for no reason.

Top 100 and wolf collars are for different things champ

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Yeah stupid looking weapon no one cares about :P

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Originally Posted by Aviars

I also await the impending whine threads asking for these rewards from the gear design contests to appear in the mogstation

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...bb881c4948f8ab

I just want everyone here to be consistent ok!?

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The rewards that are also regularly and consistently available from contests where the winners are essentially drawn out of a hat? That have been available dozens of times over the years, to the point that people have amassed collections of all the items in it via runner-up prizes?

That's a solid argument in favor of making top-100 exclusive items available again later on, actually. Good call.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

The rewards that are also regularly and consistently available from contests where the winners are essentially drawn out of a hat? That have been available dozens of times over the years, to the point that people have amassed collections of all the items in it via runner-up prizes?

That's a solid argument in favor of making top-100 exclusive items available again later on, actually. Good call.

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It's still through competition, rather, not making it widely available through the mog station people like you would want it. I could probably bet the people who have them barely break 100

It is rather convenient you ignored the entire point of my statement huh??

Even through the "dozens" of contests fewer people have probably managed to receive these rewards compared to the Feast rewards of which 600 people recieve EVERY season. I think according to your own statement it's a good idea to keep it exclusive ;]

Thanks champ -_^

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Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

Yeah stupid looking weapon no one cares about :P

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Again, that is your opinion. Not every single thing in this game is made to cater to your tastes ;P

why don't you stop acting entitled to absolutely everything for a couple moments, thanks ;P

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Originally Posted by Sindele

The rewards that are also regularly and consistently available from contests where the winners are essentially drawn out of a hat? That have been available dozens of times over the years, to the point that people have amassed collections of all the items in it via runner-up prizes?

That's a solid argument in favor of making top-100 exclusive items available again later on, actually. Good call.

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I don't even entirely agree with Aviars but you completly missed their point.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

It's still through competition, rather, not making it widely available through the mog station people like you would want it.

It is rather convenient you ignored the entire point of my statement huh??

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Considering I didn't say anything about method other than 'making it available again later on', that's a pretty interesting logical leap you've decided to make. Particularly since your point was never just about it being through "competition" nor explicitly about them being made available on the Mog Station, but I guess moving the goalposts is easier than accepting that you've accidentally made a flawed argument.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Considering I didn't say anything about method other than 'making it available again later on', that's a pretty interesting logical leap you've decided to make. Particularly since your point was never just about it being through "competition" nor explicitly about them being made available on the Mog Station, but I guess moving the goalposts is easier than accepting that you've accidentally made a flawed argument.

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You seem to ignore the fact that these competition rewards are more exclusive than Feast rewards. So you do a couple of flips and mental gymnastics to arrive to the conclusion that it means SE is looking to make these rewards widely available for everyone to have a shot at when that simply isn't true.

Anyways, just because I did not explicitly say the word "competition" in one of my arguments does not mean I did not believe in it at that time. Keep trying to cherry pick my posts to try and say I never believed in something.


If I need to break it down for you since you are being completely disingenuous about the entire discussion I will.

1. I believe top 100 should be rewarded with a unique set of gear/mount
2. I believe that casuals like yourself should be able to have a adequately(enough to be very distinguishable) toned down version of said top 100 reward through playing in ranked Feast.

It is pretty simple, my first point doesn't say the word "competition," but it is HEAVILY implied through the fact people trying to get top 100 against other people is, in fact competing, so you are just flat out wrong. Point 2 mentions people getting said rewards through ranked Feast, this is in response to people who think everything should be moved to gold saucer, mogstation and other means that THEY prefer. So no I don't move goalposts, but you just seem to have completely missed them.

I hope that makes you understand buddy

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Originally Posted by Aviars

1. I believe top 100 should be rewarded with a unique set of gear/mount
2. I believe that casuals like yourself should be able to have a adequately toned down version of said top 100 reward through playing in ranked Feast.

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This is a good middle ground. And can be implemented in so many ways. At the moment the only thing close to this we had were the wolf accessories and now the weapons via collars. They don't seem to intend place the bigger rewards in any kind of that system, it's honestly a shame.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

You seem to ignore the fact that these competition rewards are more exclusive than Feast rewards. So you do a couple of flips and mental gymnastics to arrive to the conclusion that it means SE is looking to make these rewards widely available for everyone to have a shot at when that simply isn't true.

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I'd be willing to bet that considerably more than 600 rewards in total have been given out. The biggest change to the reward pool since release was the addition of one single item to the list of options. Note that, specifically - the list of options. Not 'indefinitely exclusive competition-based items that are never given out again in any way, shape, or form'. Find me some of those and I'll argue stridently against them, too. (In fact, I can think of one for you - and it's the most minor thing ever, but it still bugs me - the damn Skyrockets that were only available in that one single video contest, which were JUST made market-restricted last patch for some incredibly obnoxious reason I can't fathom.)

EDIT: In fact, delightfully, looking back at that contest with the Skyrockets revealed that the Mandragora Choker was the only item in its reward list - an item that has been on the list of contest reward options since. How 'bout that. (Also, they gave out 300 of them. Halfway there already.)

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Anyways, just because I did not explicitly say the word "competition" in one of my arguments does not mean I did not believe in it at that time. Keep trying to cherry pick my posts to try and say I never believed in something.

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In that post you *specifically* argue that you're against Wolf Collars as an option. You want top 100 rewards to be indefinitely exclusive forever, and we will never see eye to eye on that front. Indefinite exclusivity, as far as I'm concerned, is an irritating plague. Time-restricted, fine! Have a special thing for a year or two, you won't hear a whisper of complaint out of me, that much I'll grant you've certainly earned. Hell, put a sticker on its ass and a tag line whenever you're inspected that shows your ranking that one time. All for it. Indefinite exclusivity for major content like mounts and gear, though, I've maintained pretty consistent opposition to.

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If I need to break it down for you since you are being completely disingenuous about the entire discussion I will.

1. I believe top 100 should be rewarded with a unique set of gear/mount
2. I believe that casuals like yourself should be able to have a adequately toned down version of said top 100 reward through playing in ranked Feast.

It is pretty simple, my first point doesn't say the word "competition," but it is HEAVILY implied, so you are just flat out wrong. Point 2 mentions people getting said rewards through ranked Feast, this is in response to people who think everything should be moved to gold saucer, mogstation and other means that THEY prefer. So no I don't move goalposts, but you just seem to have completely missed them.

I hope that makes you understand buddy

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The only disingenuous argument here is your repeated claim that because people want to see re-releases outside of the top 100 structure that that means they want it on the GS, the Mog Station, or other similarly trivial methods. Nobody's saying it has to be necessarily easy or immediately available.. except you.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

I'd be willing to bet that considerably more than 600 rewards in total have been given out. The biggest change to the reward pool since release was the addition of one single item to the list of options. Note that, specifically - the list of options. Not 'indefinitely exclusive competition-based items that are never given out again in any way, shape, or form'. Find me some of those and I'll argue stridently against them, too. (In fact, I can think of one for you - and it's the most minor thing ever, but it still bugs me - the damn Skyrockets that were only available in that one single video contest, which were JUST made market-restricted last patch for some incredibly obnoxious reason I can't fathom.)

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What you are willing to bet probably doesn't match with reality when 1st place and around 10 runner-ups get the reward. you seem to think they've held hundred of competitions, that is fine reaching you got there. And to move on, when SE eventually does change competition rewards, you can probably bet they won't be made widely available to normal players. The fact that it is so rare to have those items already destroys your argument. Virtually everyone who plays this game has NO CHANCE of getting those items, same with ranked feast items. Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

In that post you *specifically* argue that you're against Wolf Collars as an option. You want top 100 rewards to be indefinitely exclusive forever, and we will never see eye to eye on that front. Indefinite exclusivity, as far as I'm concerned, is an irritating plague. Time-restricted, fine! Have a special thing for a year or two, you won't hear a whisper of complaint out of me, that much I'll grant you've certainly earned. Hell, put a sticker on its ass and a tag line whenever you're inspected that shows your ranking that one time. All for it. Indefinite exclusivity for major content like mounts and gear, though, I've maintained pretty consistent opposition to.

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Top 100 rewards are top 100 rewards for that specific season, and it is a reward shown that you played that season. That is a concept you don't seem to understand. You will never convince me that making these rewards eventually being purchasable through wolf collars, AND THEREFORE AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE, is what needs to happen. In that case you just ruined the idea of competition in the first place.

to make an example, do olympic players get to play for past olympic medals??? Um no. and do the olympics make past medals somehow available to EVERYONE? Uh no.

It's quite simple really, top 100 rewards should remain exclusive because that was what they were made for in the first place, the top 100 of that season, stop feeling so entitled to every single thing you see.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

The only disingenuous argument here is your repeated claim that because people want to see re-releases outside of the top 100 structure that that means they want it on the GS, the Mog Station, or other similarly trivial methods. Nobody's saying it has to be necessarily easy or immediately available.. except you.

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If you really think that is true, you haven't been reading the thread or any similar threads. this type of conversation has happened pretty much every season where Ranked Feast has gotten their rewards revealed and people get salted over the fact PVP has these rewards in the first place. So maybe you should actually read more before putting the blinders on, reading is power right?

Well, considering you're now comparing placement in a mass-market video game to the Olympics - I think this argument has pretty much run its course. You feel entitled to an ego stroke that lasts forever, I feel entitled to getting my grubby little hands on old rewards long after they're relevant, and ne'er the two views shall meet.