Gayorzea: Discord Partner community for LGBT FFXIV players

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Originally Posted by Antonio_Xul

I think the main problem here is that out of all the minorities that are, the LGBT community are the only ones who like to flaunt their status and then expect not to get any hate on them. You have to realize that people are hateful beings and the only way to not get any hate is to not bring up sensitive issues.

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No, the way to fix hat is for the majority to call out the hateful asshats for what they really are and to make clear that it's not acceptable. Hiding doesn't solve the problem, it just puts it off so future generations have to solve it.

Honestly the reason i join discord servers like this is because I don't care to have the "oh, you're gay?" conversation when I'm gaming. I have it plenty enough irl, and while I don't mind it, there are a vast amount of other more interesting things we can talk about. At least in discords like this, I can focus more on the game or other conversation topics instead of conversations regarding my sexual orientation.


To add to this. I also come from a predominantly straight, white, and extremely right-wing state. The chances of me actually interacting with another gay person irl are slim-to-none. In groups like this, I am no longer "the gay friend", and that's extremely refreshing.


Those are just a few reasons though.

Creating a LS for crafters. "Sweet I'll join"
Creating a FC for raiders. "Cool, I want to get some clears in"
Creating a LS for hunters. "I like to hunt!"
Creating a DC for LGBTQ. "Wut, why?"

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Seriously guys? Turn this around and ask "wut why?" to any other aspect of community building. It's to build and foster a community of like minded people.

And as to VanilleFang's or anyone else who made a comment that came off as dismissive; regardless if it was their intent or not, it still happened to to be their affect/effect.

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Originally Posted by ShadowHunterrX

I dont like labels on people and want to trait people equally.

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This is all too telling of a) what people think these places are for and b) what people think of people who make them. It's heavily implied that "I think I'm better" because you don't treat people equally.

None of you people even responded to my ethnic group club etc.

Do you not like DEBATERS? Debate Club. People who like science? Science Club. Guns? Guns Subreddit. FFXIV? (Why are you here?) FFXIV Subreddit. It's like being mad at people who go to book clubs.

I don't like labels. /paints a discord as if it doesn't treat people equally

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

Creating a LS for crafters. "Sweet I'll join"
Creating a FC for raiders. "Cool, I want to get some clears in"
Creating a LS for hunters. "I like to hunt!"
Creating a DC for LGBTQ. "Wut, why?"
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Seriously guys? Turn this around and ask "wut why?" to any other aspect of community building. It's to build and foster a community of like minded people.

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Crafting, raiding or hunting are not immutable characteristics. A more accurate comparison would be FCs or Linkshells which are race or gender exclusive. It's building a community of like people, not like minded people. Nothing wrong with it though (in my opinion). Associating with similar people can be just as important as associating with people different from oneself.

Choosing to segregate from the mainstream every once in a while may not be the most effective way to be accepted by the mainstream, but individuals have the right to consider their personal needs first and seek out people who are likely to share some life experiences and support another in the same struggles.

I think what Antonio was getting at is that you're playing a game where you can choose to be a cat girl or lizard person. The point of the game is to do content in the game be it trials/dungeons w/e. There is literally no reason for anyone to know you are gay/trans w/e unless you bring it up or as he said flaunt it. Personally I don't see any context in the game in which sharing personal details with random strangers is applicable, maybe if it was me I'd tell the friends I'd made in the game more about who I am as a person beyond the avatar and if I suspected they were as toxic as some of these people are describing ( skeptical but hey) then I probably wouldn't consider them friends in the first place. Don't get me wrong you shouldn't feel the need to hide who you are just to fit in, but at the same time you also probably shouldn't be broadcasting your personal life on an online game to every other person you encounter, do that and you're pretty much asking to be trolled.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

No one is flinging mud and no one [as far as I know], has an issue with LGBT groups or their members. It's the idea of making a FC or discord based soley on who you sleep with is what some people don't agree with. Nobody is shutting anything down, but they have a right to have an opinion [as long as it's constructive]. Whether or not a "deep discussion" was intended from the post is irrelevant.

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Okay. Being gay is about WAY more than simply who you sleep with. Being gay is a culture. It really is. Me being gay is as much a part of me as being ethnically Irish, as being a US citizen, as an English Major, and various other labels that can apply to me. Sometimes it's a joyous thing, sometimes it's a shame.

It's... jeez, how do I explain this? It just is. It's not about alienation, of ourselves or others. It's like groups that are made for blacks, or latin@s, or any other minority. It's support, friendship, and culture.

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Originally Posted by dynus

Okay. Being gay is about WAY more than simply who you sleep with. Being gay is a culture. It really is. Me being gay is as much a part of me as being ethnically Irish, as being a US citizen, as an English Major, and various other labels that can apply to me. Sometimes it's a joyous thing, sometimes it's a shame.

It's... jeez, how do I explain this? It just is. It's not about alienation, of ourselves or others. It's like groups that are made for blacks, or latin@s, or any other minority. It's support, friendship, and culture.

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Thats the point though, why would you being an english major, ethnically irish or your various other labels come up in the game except among friends? Maybe its just me but sharing things that make me ME, isn't really something I do with strangers.

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Originally Posted by Lorgana

Thats the point though, why would you being an english major, ethnically irish or your various other labels come up in the game except among friends? Maybe its just me but sharing things that make me ME, isn't really something I do with strangers.

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I don't always bring it up, in fact I rarely bring it up. But it will come out.

I get asked by a co-worker "do you have a girlfriend" My answer will be; "no, I'm gay," or "nope, boyfriend" depending on if I'm in a relationship at that point.

Could I stay silent and just so no? Or pretend I do have a girlfriend when I have a boyfriend? Sure. But I won't because I consider it lying.

Coming out never stops. You're always in the process of coming out of the closet.

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Originally Posted by dynus

I don't always bring it up, in fact I rarely bring it up. But it will come out.

I get asked by a co-worker "do you have a girlfriend" My answer will be; "no, I'm gay," or "nope, boyfriend" depending on if I'm in a relationship at that point.

Could I stay silent and just so no? Or pretend I do have a girlfriend when I have a boyfriend? Sure. But I won't because I consider it lying.

Coming out never stops. You're always in the process of coming out of the closet.

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Thats in real life though, that makes sense. But how does such a thing come up in the game? What context would it make sense to reveal the personal details of your life to strangers? It doesn't help raiding, it doesn't fit into dungeons. The point I'm trying to make is that in this game there isn't such a situation that would require you broadcasting who you are to anyone. If you decide that you want to reveal everything about you you do you I guess.

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Originally Posted by Lorgana

Thats in real life though, that makes sense. But how does such a thing come up in the game? What context would it make sense to reveal the personal details of your life to strangers?

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You talk of the game as if it weren't a social environment just like any other. It's perfectly normal to chat casually and share some details of yourself in a hobby environment like a football or choir practice or book club or whatever, just like in in game chat with your FC or LS. Phrases like "Afk, husband just made us dinner" are to me perfectly normal human communication, but for some people they become "flaunting one's sexuality" as soon as they assume the person saying or writing that phrase male. I don't think anyone is entering leveling roulette or Savage PF group and opening chat with "hey, I'm gay", but if you start chatting with people, it just may come up unless you're intentionally trying to hide it, especially when using a gendered language like English (or the other officially supported languages of the game).

The game is a social one. Ergo, it's part of real life.

And this Discord is about being social with other members of the LGTB community and not having to worry about constantly coming out. To make friends with them because they share an interest in the game, and hey, sometimes its hard to meet other LGTB people where you live.

That's what this discord is for.

Straight player here myself.
I dont see what what the big fuss is here.If people want to have a linkshell or discord for people with different styles of life then let them.Im confused how people think that just because they have this discord or linkshell that they will box themselves away with the community.Im sure many of these players are also in fc's,linkshells and discords with many straight players and socialize with them too.
It would be different if some of them said i wont play with straight players or socialize with them at all.Im sure there are some players like that but they are more likely the minority.

The game is part of real life. My sides are in space. GG

You do you boo

For context though I agree that its social, which is why it might come up to people you consider friends. The purpose of this discord supposedly was to escape "toxic" people. Now them being toxic implies that they know you're LGBTQ, which implies you've told them. My point originally was that outside of your friend circle you probably shouldn't be telling people much about yourself beyond " Yes I can tank". If you feel the need to broadcast your real life to them (real life being who you are not in a game) then thats your decision, but imo like I said before, thats just asking to be trolled

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Originally Posted by ShadowHunterrX

So you belittle/censor him and another people who agree with him ? Kinda hypocrite dont you think.

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It's a dismissive post so I don't see the hypocrisy, bigotry should never get a pass no matter how accepting someone might be.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Nowhere in Vanille's post is that said or implied. Quit reading more into people's posts than what is actually said. Belittle the OP? Oh please...have people really become so sensitive that sharing an opinion like that means that they're condescending or belittling?

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They wrote it in very plain words, I don't know why you're now trying to pretend it's saying something else. Funny how neither of them answered my questions.

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Originally Posted by dynus

And this Discord is about being social with other members of the LGTB community and not having to worry about constantly coming out.

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Uhm. I just "came out" to my Discord group (yesterday? day before?) and you know what? It wasn't hard... or important. It literally came up in normal conversation. They thought I was a girl because I have a husband, I corrected them. That's literally all that happened.

Coming out was hard the first time I did it, with my mother. After that? It's a whatever thing. Anyone who makes a big issue of "constantly coming out" puts too much emphasis on their sexual orientation.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

No, it's legitimately a bad opinion because all it does is belittle the OP because "Oh, I'm an intellectual because I don't need a Discord with people like me to get by!". Girl, please, keep that opinion to yourself. Nobody needs that negativity in their life.

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I somehow missed this gem, shame on me.

Where does Vanille claim to be an intellectual? Where do they put down the OP?

They said they don't feel the need to box themself in based on sexual orientation. Do you believe people should do that?

Being LGBT means that you share a sexual orientation or gender expression with other members of that community. It doesn't mean literally anything else. People who feel the need to focus so hard on something that is such a small part of who they are legitimately confuse me.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

No, it's legitimately a bad opinion because all it does is belittle the OP because "Oh, I'm an intellectual because I don't need a Discord with people like me to get by!". Girl, please, keep that opinion to yourself. Nobody needs that negativity in their life.

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People can do whatever they want. I just said my piece. People can agree or disagree, thats up to them.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

That is ...holy hell.

That is not what Antonio was suggesting here. Could've been worded better (especially at the end) but I get the kind of point he was making. It's responses like this that spark the pettiness that has been going on in this thread since page one.

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Except it totally is? According to him, if you bring up any aspects of your irl life in game, you encourage people to be cruel to you. We should all hide who we are as game chat should only ever discuss raid times, hunt positions, and "o/".

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Originally Posted by Lorgana

-Snipped for Character Count-

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You're implying that it is our fault that people react negatively to our sexuality.

When I started my job 5 years ago, I had to calculate if it would be okay for me to put a picture of my husband on my desk. My co-worker in the next office simply placed photos of his wife on his desk. In parts of the US, it is not illegal to fire someone for their sexuality. A simple family photo can be a tip-off.

Likewise, if I'm in a PF group and my husband needs to talk to me, I will say "I need to talk to my husband, BRB" It isn't that hard to use context clues to conclude that I'm gay. Especially if the PF requires Discord.

Groups like this exist because of prejudice. I would love to live in a future where these groups aren't needed. We aren't there yet. XIV has its moments. Gayorzea is an easy way to cut out the stress of being bashed. It let's us be us without fear. It lets us meet people with similar experiences.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Sorry, I'm not fan of boxing myself into a particular group based on things as immaterial as sexual orientation.

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I'm glad that you do not need this Discord. I want to live in a world where Discords like this aren't needed. But we aren't there yet. I live near SF. Do I need this Discord? No. Being LGBT around here is pretty accepted. But I joined to help give back to others who don't find themselves in as fortunate of a situation as either of us. I don't see why you feel the need to sling mud at the people who do use this Discord. Its just another resource. You can be in multiple Discords at once. Nobody is boxed in by their sexuality in this case, unless they /only/ join this Discord and then refuse to talk to anyone else on the entire planet.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Uhm. I just "came out" to my Discord group (yesterday? day before?) and you know what? It wasn't hard... or important. It literally came up in normal conversation. They thought I was a girl because I have a husband, I corrected them. That's literally all that happened.

Coming out was hard the first time I did it, with my mother. After that? It's a whatever thing. Anyone who makes a big issue of "constantly coming out" puts too much emphasis on their sexual orientation.

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Not to be rude, but the fact that you are able to have a husband would not even be possible without people standing up for gay rights, being vocal about their discrimination, and them banding together for change. Groups like Gayorzea are still needed in many parts of the world, and just because coming out is a "whatever thing" to you, does not mean it is for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Sorry, I'm not fan of boxing myself into a particular group based on things as immaterial as sexual orientation.

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By saying things like this, it seems you are extremely lucky to live in a place where you can reap the benefits of others standing up for your own pursuit of happiness.

This thread is one prime grade A platinum hot take after another. The mods should probably close it at this point.

Its nice a people of same orientation could find another half that plays this game like they do, i dont find any problem here right. :P

This discord is not any different than thread with the people looking for other half, there is a need of something like this for minorities and it needs to be vocal in order to them to find themselves out in the enviroment they are comfortable in.

No I'm implying that I think it's dumb to tell people details of your personal life that have no impact or relevance in how you play this game. If people react negatively to your community that's not your fault, but I don't know a lot of homophobic trolls who can read minds. Just sayin if you're experiencing toxicity in game for being gay, ask yourself how they know you're gay. Or better yet, why you told them anything about yourself to begin with.

Mibbe I'm just an old fart who has a clear cut dividing point between what I share online and who I am in real life. Like I said, you do you.

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Originally Posted by Lorgana

No I'm implying that I think it's dumb to tell people details of your personal life that have no impact or relevance in how you play this game. If people react negatively to your community that's not your fault, but I don't know a lot of homophobic trolls who can read minds. Just sayin if you're experiencing toxicity in game for being gay, ask yourself how they know you're gay. Or better yet, why you told them anything about yourself to begin with.

Mibbe I'm just an old fart who has a clear cut dividing point between what I share online and who I am in real life. Like I said, you do you.

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I agree on the "don't say more than necessary" message. It just invites unnecessary drama, from "brb kid's crying" to "afk rq hubby's home"... someone will take offense or see an opening and that's the end of that. Obviously this doesn't apply when you're among friends or trusted acquaintances, but why include those personal touches when you're among strangers? "afk 5 min" is more than sufficient. My perspective is probably a bit skewed since I'm a little older and I had to hide who I was for many years in online games. It's great that gaming communities in general are more open and diverse now... but that wasn't the case for a very long time. And if you don't want people to make a big to-do about what you are, don't even hint about it.

All that said, there's nothing wrong with advertising a discord for XIV players to group together as long as they aren't rude and nasty to outsiders. Keep the personal stuff in private channels where it belongs, let everyone else focus on the game. I can understand why people would want to group by sexual preference even though it has nothing to do with XIV itself - sometimes, you just want to include some minor personal details and not have to worry about who saw it. Ironically enough, by emphasizing your sexuality when searching for groups, you can avoid talking about it altogether.

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Originally Posted by Lorgana

No I'm implying that I think it's dumb to tell people details of your personal life that have no impact or relevance in how you play this game. If people react negatively to your community that's not your fault, but I don't know a lot of homophobic trolls who can read minds. Just sayin if you're experiencing toxicity in game for being gay, ask yourself how they know you're gay. Or better yet, why you told them anything about yourself to begin with.

Mibbe I'm just an old fart who has a clear cut dividing point between what I share online and who I am in real life. Like I said, you do you.

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Upon joining a group I don't generally introduce myself as "HI IM ZOEMI TIA AND IM A BIRACIAL MUTT IRL", but when people socialize, outside aspects of player's lives tend to bleed out: One of the people I regularly farmed byakko with is a father of twin girls. One of people in my hunting ls is going to medical school.Three of my old fc’s officers live in Australia. One of my friends is a recently married gay black dude. How'd I find out? He got married and we all wanted photos from the wedding, so he posted them in our ls’ discord.

While I don’t know every aspect of their lives and they don’t know every bit of mine, I can’t imagine us being half as close if we stuck to being as impersonal as possible. To encourage others to do so instead of telling asshats to behave is sad.

Which is why in every single reply on this thread I've stated that you will obviously share more with people you've come to trust as friends. If you had an idea of them being toxic you probably wouldn't be friends, right?

Last word and TLDR before anyone tries to strawman me. Feel free to be as fabulous as you like with people you perceive as friends, but have some common sense around strangers.

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Originally Posted by Lorgana

Which is why in every single reply on this thread I've stated that you will obviously share more with people you've come to trust as friends. If you had an idea of them being toxic you probably wouldn't be friends, right?

Last word and TLDR before anyone tries to strawman me. Feel free to be as fabulous as you like with people you perceive as friends, but have some common sense around strangers.

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Maybe it's just nice to be part of a larger group that won't get all judgy on your ass if and when those details do come out. The idea of being part of a group with a similar background, community interest, etc is not a new concept. I don't generally see people getting all uppity at the idea of people putting together a club for those who love....poodles or some shit. So what gives?

It cause cringe because it is not part of "society norm." People have ideas an opinions (since forever) that want to share. Faith, customs, traditions, moral values, and rituals are what separete from one another. An example that happened to me in one of my jobs. I made friends with a co-worker. She is korean. We were working for over a year together. One day an old lady was transferred to our department and my friend stopped talking to me.

Apparently the old korean lady was very close-minded. The old lady consider other races inferior to Koreans and my friend should make friends within her own ethnic.

Human beings are interesting creatures.

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Originally Posted by Chortle

Not to be rude, but the fact that you are able to have a husband would not even be possible without people standing up for gay rights, being vocal about their discrimination, and them banding together for change.

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I think my first post emphasis this point. It is thanks to what others have done in the past that I feel its ridiculous to use something as unimportant as who I am sexually attract to as a reason to join a group. And the number of upvotes I think further illustrates this point. People accept people much more readily now-a-days, and feel people shouldn't isolate themselves.

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Originally Posted by Chortle

Groups like Gayorzea are still needed in many parts of the world, and just because coming out is a "whatever thing" to you, does not mean it is for everyone else.

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I'm not dismissing that some places need help in this regard, but in what part of the English speaking world is being LGBT not seen as okay? I know that some communities may not like it, but those are few and far apart.

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Originally Posted by Chortle

By saying things like this, it seems you are extremely lucky to live in a place where you can reap the benefits of others standing up for your own pursuit of happiness.

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Or I understand that someone calling me a "fa***t" isn't the end of the world. I grew up in the 90s, where homosexuality was the most common bully tactic. I was bullied consistently for 4 years, so trust me when I say I know it can be hard. But it being hard is part of what helps you grow. Locking away in a group of people who treat you like you're special and amazing just because you're LGBT sounds very boring. It's protecting yourself with a false illusion.

I know some people need help (suicide rates are high and such) but I don't think coddling them is the correct answer.

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Originally Posted by Lorgana

Feel free to be as fabulous as you like with people you perceive as friends, but have some common sense around strangers.

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Originally Posted by Lorgana

If you feel the need to broadcast your real life to them (real life being who you are not in a game) then thats your decision, but imo like I said before, thats just asking to be trolled

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Originally Posted by Rokke

To encourage others to do so instead of telling asshats to behave is sad.

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das it mane

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Maybe it's just nice to be part of a larger group that won't get all judgy on your ass if and when those details do come out. The idea of being part of a group with a similar background, community interest, etc is not a new concept. I don't generally see people getting all uppity at the idea of people putting together a club for those who love....poodles or some shit. So what gives?

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He's not really being an a-hole like some of you guys are painting him. His perspective is "if you don't want grief among strangers, don't share information about yourself". And that's perfectly reasonable given how when you pug you never know who you're talking to, what state of mind they're in, or what will set them off. If you're in a private chat like what's being advertised in this thread then sure, be yourself. But when you are with randoms, watch what you say. This goes for far more than sexual orientation or gender identity.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

He's not really being an a-hole like some of you guys are painting him. His perspective is "if you don't want grief among strangers, don't share information about yourself". And that's perfectly reasonable given how when you pug you never know who you're talking to, what state of mind they're in, or what will set them off. If you're in a private chat like what's being advertised in this thread then sure, be yourself. But when you are with randoms, watch what you say. This goes for far more than sexual orientation or gender identity.

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I haven't implied anyone is an asshole in this thread.

As Rokke above mentioned, it's not like people bust out of the gates with their name, followed shortly by what their sexual preference is. However, none of us can tell if that new person we just met will end up being someone we spend more time with or possibly become friends with down the road. If you're from the same Discord group, I would imagine it takes away most of the worry/stress over what may happen if/when certain topics come up.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I haven't implied anyone is an asshole in this thread.

As Rokke above mentioned, it's not like people bust out of the gates with their name, followed shortly by what their sexual preference is. However, none of us can tell if that new person we just met will end up being someone we spend more time with or possibly become friends with down the road. If you're from the same Discord group, I would imagine it takes away most of the worry/stress over what may happen if/when certain topics come up.

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Which is why I have no problem with people advertising them. Discord, FC, or LS chat is the business of the people who join them. But someone giving out some sage advice regarding what's safe to say among strangers shouldn't be vilified. It might have been misplaced, but it's still worth heeding.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Uhm. I just "came out" to my Discord group (yesterday? day before?) and you know what? It wasn't hard... or important. It literally came up in normal conversation. They thought I was a girl because I have a husband, I corrected them. That's literally all that happened.

Coming out was hard the first time I did it, with my mother. After that? It's a whatever thing. Anyone who makes a big issue of "constantly coming out" puts too much emphasis on their sexual orientation.

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I mean, yes, the first time is always the hardest, but you just illustrated my point perfectly; you're always correcting people because people assume you're straight, ergo, you're always coming out.

It's not an emphasis, it's just... well, living.

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Originally Posted by dynus

I mean, yes, the first time is always the hardest, but you just illustrated my point perfectly; you're always correcting people because people assume you're straight, ergo, you're always coming out.

It's not an emphasis, it's just... well, living.

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I.. what? I never said it's not an on going thing. I was pointing out that it's a non-issue.

I don't see it as coming out to state a fact. Since I have accepted who I am it's nothing more than me making a correction. Before I proclaimed it verbally, with a person I love, I hadn't fully accepted myself. After the first time it literally became nothing more than something akin to a sneeze.

Mods really need to send this thread out to pasture. Or maybe pull a Old Yeller with it. Something along those lines.

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Originally Posted by Texa

Mods really need to send this thread out to pasture. Or maybe pull a Old Yeller with it. Something along those lines.

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Why?

I am all for supporting discords like this. It's not like you are limited to one.

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Originally Posted by ArionXx

Why?

I am all for supporting discords like this. It's not like you are limited to one.

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Op was just advertising a linkshell and the thing has spiraled into whether or not it's okay to talk about your personal life in a MMO. That's wildly off-topic and the FF XIV general is also not the place for people to discuss whether it's okay for lgbt people to discuss their lives with their online friends. This place can't even come to a consensus over whether healers should DPS or not and people here are going on about whether minority groups deserve to voice their presence. Some of y'all are going to hurt yourselves thinking too hard.