Should players be able to sell Mogstation items?

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

lol, oh snap. We've been bamboozled. I had no idea that this was a necropost D:

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Risen from the grave after almost a year, impressive! haha

Don't see why they have a problem with it. Look at Tera and Aion you can sell items from there cash shop on there market boards. This is only mmorpg that have played that doesn't let you. GW2 can use in game money to buy cash shop items or sell cash shop money for in game money. I find it vey weird they don't.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Don't see why they have a problem with it. Look at Tera and Aion you can sell items from there cash shop on there market boards. This is only mmorpg that have played that doesn't let you. GW2 can use in game money to buy cash shop items or sell cash shop money for in game money. I find it vey weird they don't.

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Gw2 may be a bad example though, their drop rates are so low for materialsand the like it encourages you to buy gold with gems to get mats for stuff. Gw2 is my example of how not to do money to currency conversions.

Do I think it's a good idea for them to allow Mog items to be posted on the MB? I don't think they would ever want to do that. There are tos of people in this game sitting on 10s of mil in gil who would never need to spend a dime on the Mog stuff.

What I think they should do is give MB glam a vendor sale price of like 5mil. That way you can spend money on a glam just to sale it to a vendor to get gil directly. Would be a sneaky way of allowing people to buy gil through the mog site. Like how GW2 allows you to spend real money to buy currency that's used for the cash shop ... and you can' also convert larges amounts of ingame currency into cash shop currency ... and you can buy ingame currency with cash shop currency.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

.What I think they should do is give MB glam a vendor sale price of like 5mil. That way you can spend money on a glam just to sale it to a vendor to get gil directly. Would be a sneaky way of allowing people to buy gil through the mog site.

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It might seem like the same thing because it has the same end result for the buyer (pay real money for item; convert it to gil), but it would have the opposite effect on the game economy.

By selling to a vendor, you've produced 5,000,000 gil "out of thin air" - it didn't come from somewhere, it's just been added to the game.

If you sell it to another player, that money already existed in the game (and had to be produced by engaging in the game), and marketboard taxes will work as a gil sink to permanently remove a fraction of it.

Maybe. I'd like to see something similar to the wow-token system where you could buy gametime or store credit with money.
Well that or SE deleting the store all together.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Don't see why they have a problem with it. Look at Tera and Aion you can sell items from there cash shop on there market boards. This is only mmorpg that have played that doesn't let you. GW2 can use in game money to buy cash shop items or sell cash shop money for in game money. I find it vey weird they don't.

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Aion is super pay2win, tera is also but less.
In GW2 to earn ascended eq you have to spend a lot of time or craft it, anyone with big enough wallet will be able to get ascended gear in one day over there, not to mention those "convenience items" which saves you a ton of money and time in the long run.

I dont want FFXIV to go pay2win like those games, this game is the only MMORPG on the market that has no pay2win element in it, even the slightest.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I dont want FFXIV to go pay2win like those games, this game is the only MMORPG on the market that has no pay2win element in it, even the slightest.

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Pay to win - a situation where the player can buy in-game content or in-game changes, with real money, that give the player a gameplay advantage or advance the player gameplaywise.

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This is incorrect. When it comes to making more gil, additional paid retainers is p2w, since you can have greater gil income by having more listings on the Market Board.

Also additional income through Quick Ventures.

"65000 ventures is the current cap. 65k ventures would be about ~ 13 million GC seals."

GC seals are super easy to earn via gear conversion + Priority Seal Allowance Tokens

"65k ventures/4 for 2 retainers assuming someone can send out retainers 24/7 is 16250 ventures/hours or about 1.86 years.

Now assuming 1% of those 16250 (~162) ventures bring back items like jet-black dyes or an item worth about ~200k, we're looking at about 32.5 million gil over those 1.86 years."

Imagine a person with all 10 retainers.

Not to mention, more Market Board listings also gives more influence over the MB. For example, you can do stuff like crash the price of an item by listing it multiple times across multiple retainers for cheap.

Now at this point, people will point out that gil is mostly for luxury/vanity items.

However, my take on it: gil is a convenience/time saving currency.

For example, I was able to rush my crafters to 70, in a very short period because I had the gil to do so. And now that my crafters are at 70, I've made more than double of what it cost to rush level them.

Another example would be housing. Having loads of gil, would mean when a plot is available for sale, players with more gil could instantly purchase as opposed to a player with less gil, who would prefer to wait as the price goes down over time.

Since this came back with the same tired justifications:

My answer last year was No.
My answer today is still No.
My answer tomorrow will be No.

It’s amazing how much WoW gold is still for sale on the Internet since their addition of WoW coins or whatever killed off RMT.

A simple google search shows that plainly.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If you sell it to another player, that money already existed in the game (and had to be produced by engaging in the game), and marketboard taxes will work as a gil sink to permanently remove a fraction of it.

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The potential issue here is that by allowing people to sell super shiny mogstation items, that's going to create a pretty strong desire/need for gil. I imagine the bots and actual RMT would be far more active if this were to become a thing. People want their shiny items right away, and not everyone wants to spend the time farming for it.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

The potential issue here is that by allowing people to sell super shiny mogstation items, that's going to create a pretty strong desire/need for gil. I imagine the bots and actual RMT would be far more active if this were to become a thing. People want their shiny items right away, and not everyone wants to spend the time farming for it.

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I can see the arguments for and against making the Mog Station items sellable, and what that might do to RMT - I should have mentioned that in my first post. But I think being able to directly buy gil (or buy items and immediately convert to gil, as was proposed) is more likely to have a negative effect than being able to buy items and sell them to other players.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Hey, was wondering how people felt behind allowing players to buy and sell cash shop items.

Personally I would like something to spend Gil on. Just a general question, hope it does not turn into a shit storm.

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It really wouldn't bother me at all. I'm not one to tell a person how they can and can't spend their money. If they want to buy something off the cash shop and sell it on the auction house then let them have at it as far as I'm concerned.

Personally though I'd much rather see a system like Crysta (or insert other currency name here) that has a chance to drop in game and can be used to purchase things off the cash shop as an alternative method of getting something off there.

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

You are asking for legitimized RMT. My answer is a hard no.

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Mostly I agree with you, but also built in systems to do just this have managed to kill off RMT sellers in some MMOs. So... I'm actually kind of on the fence on this one.

When it comes to RMT, I don't believe the current Mogstation inventory would have any impact, as theirs is unrelated to the current inventory in the RMT market.

If they added Allagan Platinum Pieces as a purchaseable thing, that would be a different story.
I suppose it could affect the dyes, since they do have in-game achieveable equivalents, so they could have competition there.

Fantasia from the market boards?!




hell yeah

[dream ends]

We should at least have an alternative to get MogStation items from being active in the game like the "Achievement Certificate".

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

The potential issue here is that by allowing people to sell super shiny mogstation items, that's going to create a pretty strong desire/need for gil. I imagine the bots and actual RMT would be far more active if this were to become a thing. People want their shiny items right away, and not everyone wants to spend the time farming for it.

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Not taking sides here exactly (I'm kind of on the fence about this in general), but if a person wanted to spend money for the item rather than gil, the option is still there to... buy the item yourself directly from the mog station. So I don't think this in particular would get people to buy more gil from RMT.

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Originally Posted by Brynne

Not taking sides here exactly (I'm kind of on the fence about this in general), but if a person wanted to spend money for the item rather than gil, the option is still there to... buy the item yourself directly from the mog station. So I don't think this in particular would get people to buy more gil from RMT.

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I guess this boils down to the actual RMT costs and how much people will sell items for. I don't know Gil prices at all - would it even be possible to get 20m- 40m (or more)for less than $30? Again no idea what the actual mounts and items would go for, so perhaps this is all a needless worry. :x

I guess my concern was that if RMT can just make the gil cheaper to buy vs. buying straight the item from the Mogstation, there is gonna be a problem with increased botting.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

The potential issue here is that by allowing people to sell super shiny mogstation items, that's going to create a pretty strong desire/need for gil. I imagine the bots and actual RMT would be far more active if this were to become a thing. People want their shiny items right away, and not everyone wants to spend the time farming for it.

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Why risk an account ban, hacked account or being scammed when you could get your gil 100% safely by buying mogstation items from Enix and selling them?

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Why risk an account ban, hacked account or being scammed when you could get your gil 100% safely by buying mogstation items from Enix and selling them?

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*IF* you are able to buy the amount of gil needed for an item for less than the actual mogstation price, some people may consider that a decent option. As it is, people already risk their accounts to buy gil, that's not going to suddenly stop just because you can now sell mogstation items.


If RMT prices are still just super crazy and high (again, I really have no idea here..), then I don't think they would be much of a factor. And if that's the case, I'd actually be OK to have the mogstation items sold in-game.

My only concern ATM is that selling mogstation items will create a huge 'need' for in-game gil --> could lead to more bots --> could lead to possible inflation

My true ideal situation would be a copy and paste version of WoW tokens. Where one could buy $15 worth of crysta for $20 and the value is not regulated by the players posting.

In TOR you can sell items on the GTN and to a degree at the very least within my circle of friends it did encourage RMT since when I was playing it was possible to get 1 billion credits for under 30 bucks from certain sellers. Due to the numerous infinite credit exploits that went unchecked and was easily able to avoid the removal of said credits when they went to punish. Though as you said I think it will only be an issue if prices drop to absurd ranges.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

*IF* you are able to buy the amount of gil needed for an item for less than the actual mogstation price, some people may consider that a decent option. As it is, people already risk their accounts to buy gil, that's not going to suddenly stop just because you can now sell mogstation items.


If RMT prices are still just super crazy and high (again, I really have no idea here..), then I don't think they would be much of a factor. And if that's the case, I'd actually be OK to have the mogstation items sold in-game.

My only concern ATM is that selling mogstation items will create a huge 'need' for in-game gil --> could lead to more bots --> could lead to possible inflation

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The peole who currently employ bots, are the people who need gil to sell for real money.
This would eliminate a lot of their market.

The other people who who need gil, buy gil with real money, and would now have a legitimate avenue to do so.

The mogstation items themselves would be luxuries like any other expensive item in the game, and those with disposable income would buy them like they currently buy rare drops of high end crafts.
Does crafting and rare drops current cause botting?

I cant imagine people employ bots for their own personal gil generation, it's too risky, and takes a degree of knowhow that most people wouldnt kbow where to begin.
Players who need gil would either gain it normally, or buy it (in this case via mogstation items), rather that start botting.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The mogstation items themselves would be luxuries like any other expensive item in the game, and those with disposable income would buy them like they currently buy rare drops of high end crafts.
Does crafting and rare drops current cause botting?

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We'll never know the actual statistics behind who bots, who buys gil, where the money goes, etc., so all of this is just speculation.

So with that said, seems like gil is mostly useful for housing, glamours, expensive/rare drops, and some gear. Some of these carry a pretty high price-tag (like that 40M emote on Balmung), so I would definitely say that crafted items and/or rare drops are something that people may very well buy gil for. And if there is a demand for gil, you can bet the RMT bots will be there.

This is why I have the concern that if you introduce some highly-sought after mogstation items, that demand for gil will probably increase, which could signal to RMT to double-down on their efforts. And when you see a lot of gil coming into a game, inflation follows.

So yeah, there's a lot of "if's and maybes" mixed in there, but I think they are somewhat valid concerns. Again, only SE really knows the bot/RMT situation and how it looks, so all we can do is toss out ideas and thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Hey, was wondering how people felt behind allowing players to buy and sell cash shop items.

Personally I would like something to spend Gil on. Just a general question, hope it does not turn into a shit storm.

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This is so interesting to see this topic brought up here. So the reason I started playing Final Fantasy XIV not long ago was because my favorite mmorpg, Rift, died a horrible death. Rift was initially a subscription game with no cash shops whatsoever. The company decided to make the game free to play and one of the features was REX which is a currency purchasable with real money. REX can then be sold in the game to other players with in game money (plat, for Rift). So players who don't want to spend real money but want to obtain cash shop items can use their in game plat to buy REX from other players. Players who are new or who have very little plat and whip out their credit card and buy a few REX then instantly have a lot of plat in game. This was exactly what killed the game and ultimately the company Trion. The devs stopped making playable content and instead focused all on REX/cashshop sales. Instead of fixing the problems with the different class/specs, they would keep coming out with new player classes that you can buy with money or REX. It increased the botters because people wanted to save money and buy REX from whales. You suggestion is exactly what killed Rift and Trion. I hope that doesn't happen here in FFXIV.

Don't feel like running roulette? Drop $10 on mogstation and sell it for gil. Don't feel like leveling a crafter? Sell another piece of mogstation item. You want the biggest mansion but have no gil? Spend $200 on mogstation and sell it for 30 million gil. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

This is so interesting to see this topic brought up here. So the reason I started playing Final Fantasy XIV not long ago was because my favorite mmorpg, Rift, died a horrible death. Rift was initially a subscription game with no cash shops whatsoever. The company decided to make the game free to play and one of the features was REX which is a currency purchasable with real money. REX can then be sold in the game to other players with in game money (plat, for Rift). So players who don't want to spend real money but want to obtain cash shop items can use their in game plat to buy REX from other players. Players who are new or who have very little plat and whip out their credit card and buy a few REX then instantly have a lot of plat in game. This was exactly what killed the game and ultimately the company Trion. The devs stopped making playable content and instead focused all on REX/cashshop sales. Instead of fixing the problems with the different class/specs, they would keep coming out with new player classes that you can buy with money or REX. It increased the botters because people wanted to save money and buy REX from whales. You suggestion is exactly what killed Rift and Trion. I hope that doesn't happen here in FFXIV.

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But it's also exactly what keeps WoW going.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

But it's also exactly what keeps WoW going.

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I would argue that it is not keeping wow going. Would need some statistics on this.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The peole who currently employ bots, are the people who need gil to sell for real money.
This would eliminate a lot of their market.

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Except the exact opposite happened with Rift when they started allowing players to buy REX with real money. Many more people started botting so that they won't have to spend real money to play the game and buy gear/items. The whales bought all the REX and people who don't want to spend money either grinded or botted to create a market for REX.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The other people who who need gil, buy gil with real money, and would now have a legitimate avenue to do so.

The mogstation items themselves would be luxuries like any other expensive item in the game, and those with disposable income would buy them like they currently buy rare drops of high end crafts.
Does crafting and rare drops current cause botting?

I cant imagine people employ bots for their own personal gil generation, it's too risky, and takes a degree of knowhow that most people wouldnt kbow where to begin.
Players who need gil would either gain it normally, or buy it (in this case via mogstation items), rather that start botting.

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The people who were afraid to engage in RMT can now freely buy/sell REX. Before players would have to take a chance when they sell credits because there is always a chance that the seller could scam the buyer. Now, with REX, people can buy/sell risk free and the transactions increased a lot. You think it's hard to bot? If you have youtube or google you can learn how to do that. Difficulty will not stop players.

You think this will only apply to luxury items? Rif'ts motto was "No trials. No tricks. No traps" regarding REX and f2p and it turned out to be the complete opposite. I suffered through all these ordeals in Rift first hand. I read and heard the naive optimistic arguments similar to the ones you offered, but the fact is once a game goes down this path, it is the beginning of the death spiral.

I loved that I could buy cash shop items off the player market back in TERA. Buy outfit boxes at their lows when they'd go on sale in the cash shop -> flip when they inflated. Most of my extra character slots and lootbox prizes were bought from making my gold off the costume market.

On Balmung theres not much to spend gil on once you manage to get a house. I'd love to be able to buy things like fantas off other players here.