Just played Final Fantasy XI

Been meaning to try it but it just looks far too dated for me. Will definitely try it if that mobile reboot ever comes out.

FFXI wasn't my first mmo, WoW was, but ffxi was and is the best mmo experience I have ever had.

When I was new, shortly after WotG came out, I ran around and tried my best to do things, the world was big and dangerous and I was having problems leveling and getting through content. So I made a ls and started /sh for other new players. Well that ls grew rather quickly, we leveled, ran content, camped NMs, got through the lvl cap quests together and on and on. We explored the most dangerous corners and slowly but surely evolved into an endgame ls, all the same ppl who were maybe lvl 10 when we met.

We worked on relics and mythics, we fought in the sky and the sea and mostly we became great friends. Then abyssea happened and everyone drifted and moved on to other mmos. I came here along with 1 other.

Best gaming experience ever. The only thing that even compares are the fun times we had in version 1 of this game after the final save.

I've hardly played 14 for a year and already feel like it's time to move on.

I played 11 for years. There was always a goal to accomplish. Always a reason to make gil. NMs drop real gear, most bis. A relic weapon took literally years to finish.

I personally liked the UI, everything was a macro. It's dumb that macros in 14 don't really work. (like the RDM burst in 14 could easily be one button macro but I'm forced to use 4).

I remember playing ff14 alpha and telling them almost everyday "Just make it like 11 with better graphics." But you know, nothing on the NA side ever mattered.

The community was very tight. You would see and play with the same people for years.

But oh well, have to move on at some point. Not going to pay a monthly for an outdated game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobs

I've hardly played 14 for a year and already feel like it's time to move on.

---

I'm still here I think because I literally started in version 1's beta back in 2010, saw it through all the way to dalamud falling and it has become habit. Although I can go for weeks without playing and not care one bit. Even cancelled my alt account and extra retainers.

But 2018 has a lot of new mmos and there are ones in development that seem truly innovative and are thankfully pc only or separating pc and console versions/servers so the can optimize and add content by platform (no ps w/e limitations yay!). So who knows how long I will stay, this game just doesn't have the same feel and I really don't care much about the characters or world, not anything like I did in XI, nor have I been able to make connections to any other player. Between pf and endgame being a big joke, there is no need.

Also the fact that they are western companies who have already sworn off the cutesy wutesy thing that eastern games are so fond of when they were specifically asked about it. So another perk. No lala, no kitties, no kawaii, no waifu for youfu

Part of the reason is because in XI your hard won items were valuable for long periods of time.
In XIV almost everything is worthless if given a few months.

You were also forced to help each other in XI if you wanted to get anything completed, this fostered a good community.
In XIV you just sign up and never see the people again. Its super convenient and great for the lack of time we all seem to have these days, but it also means you need to put in real effort to find a piece of community.

XI had a lot of annoying, inconvenient things. But you got through them together and you appreciated the hard work that helpers gave because old content was not a face roll for the veterans (sometimes simple 1% RNG locked you out; looking at you Carbuncle's Ruby).

In XIV when I want to help people do things I am either an unsynched demi-goddess (most of the time), or a teacher willing to sit with the group for hours letting them gain the victory themselves (this is usually reserved for my small community of friends, as they would do so for me.)


Do you want to LFG for 2 hours to LvL for 30mins? Or do you want to Throw yourselves into a guaranteed roulette and come out rewarded instantly?

These are two very different situations and a real sign of the times. /pleasant nostalgia without rose tints

Edit:
Like a few here, I'm a 1.0 player, I've actually never unsubbed. I have taken breaks and tried other MMOs. However all these MMOs are just lacking a lot of things that XIV has, even BDO with its character creation hype proved to be really lacking for variety in the character creation department (basically you can chose 1 of 30 different flavours of the same model).

I can with confidence say that XIV is one of, if not the very best MMO out, flaws and all.

I've been playing FFXIV since launch, and even I've mostly lost interest. I only usually log in once/week for my content static.

FFXIV's strength is also its weakness. It's a fantastic game for busy adults who don't want to be "left behind" because they can't spend hours per day gaming. On the other hand, this game doesn't require anything more than queuing up for roulettes every now and then. I've really liked the game's vertical approach, but I really wish SE would give me more reasons to spend more time in Eorzea.

XI had a lot of flaws, and it was way too much of a time sink. Even I think it's time though for this development team to really think about stepping outside of its comfort zone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niqote

Part of the reason is because in XI your hard won items were valuable for long periods of time.
In XIV almost everything is worthless if given a few months.

---

That's because of Drop percentage from NM's eventually those items became Rare/EX because RMT ruined it for legit players and those items became junk.

Some were still good also we had a quick swap option which was helpful to keep items relevant.

As for game play the game took forever to do stuff which caused content to stretch out, here in ffxiv its done in a matter of 2 weeks then story is done with in the first day or two on release and content if you want to collect gear but you only have to collect the highest for next raid and then skip the tomes grind and do that when you are bored.

FFXI was a beast back when it was 75 once they went past 75 the game died 99 was pushing it.

Also making gil in FFXI was a pain.

The best thing about FFXI in my honest opinion was that they didn't give you the items you went out and had to farm them or if you wanted not from NPC hand outs.

Farming and NM hunting and saving up gil to actually wanting something from Auction house cause Market board in FFXIV is there only if you need something for a quest or glamour and thing I hate in FFXIV everyone is the same in gear nobody is different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebazy

A few things that stand out vs FFXIV:

The art direction and attention to detail within the world was completely unrivalled. It had so many little flourishes and details that on the surface of things, were completely pointless yet mesmerisingly beautiful. It really did feel like a living breathing world in places with things surprising you even after you'd played it for years.

---

Imo the art of XIV is superb and one of its strongest points. It has to be something else. I think the way you interact with the world makes you miss a lot of the beauty in XIV. Linear instance runs that are more about speed and not stopping to smell the roses. You don't want to waste the time of the cross-world people you're randomly matched with, and there's no reward for exploration (well there's only one path anyway). The beauty and attention to detail by the artists is there but the game design is such that it can often be underappreciated.

XIV does a lot of things better, but it won't win on immersion since things are streamlined or QoL'ed down to an almost arcadey experience to satisfy a broad audience of people who don't have a lot of time on their hands. It's a lot of menu-driven stuff including that big catalogue of instanced battles, and people forget the geography of the world, forget the journey because they are just used to the world being a list of teleport destinations on a menu.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niqote

Do you want to LFG for 2 hours to LvL for 30mins? Or do you want to Throw yourselves into a guaranteed roulette and come out rewarded instantly.

---

Was it really that's bad? I've heard that a lot. Frankly I wouldn't want to sit for 2 hours, unable to level my character if that's what I wanted to do. Not even nostalgia goggle can make that sound appealing. Did the positive points really outweigh these negatives?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

It's not fair at all to claim that you dislike "old-school MMOs" with their grinds, and then brush everyone who speaks fondly of XI as simply having rose-tinted glasses. You have a strong bias, and it's quite dismissive of both the game and players.

---

The same bias as people who keep claiming that FFXI was "better" than FFXIV, or that FFXIV "should learn" from FFXI, merely based on their own good memories. And I don't see you complain about those.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rufalus

Imo the art of XIV is superb and one of its strongest points. It has to be something else. I think the way you interact with the world makes you miss a lot of the beauty in XIV.

---

Not quite, whilst I don't doubt the beauty of FFXIV (Upper La Noscea is stunning), FFXI's art and detailing went much deeper likely due in part to the hardware limitations they were faced with back then. Rather than funnel resources into complex high resolution assets, they poured effort into the broadening the world and replicating little things that just made the world feel so much more dynamic and believable.

One example that's already been mentioned, Airships, unlike in FFXIV, FFXI's public transport flew on a strict rota. Not only could you sit at the docks in a city and watch the them fly in and out on schedule, you could watch them fly overhead perfectly in sync through the zones they passed over. When you remember that this was a zoned game running on a PS2, that's an incredible amount of effort for such a small detail.

Ifrit's Cauldron (The volcano beyond Kazham on Elshimo) was a similar example, not only would it actually erupt, but you'd see it do so in sync from other zones on the continent. FFXI was full of little things like this, many of which we will likely never see again due to how production costs have spiralled upwards forcing studios to be more cautious with their budget.

The art direction wasn't flawless of course, FFXI's dungeons and underground corridors were generally pretty awful from an artistic standpoint. Most of these were built around modular geometry with some clutter thrown in to try and keep it fresh. FFXIV is the opposite with the open world feeling a little lacking at times, but dungeons typically being beautifully designed (To anyone that doubts this point, on your next Skalla clear, return and just walk back through the dungeon taking in the sights either side of the path, it's actually a really stunning dungeon).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Was it really that's bad? I've heard that a lot. Frankly I wouldn't want to sit for 2 hours, unable to level my character if that's what I wanted to do. Not even nostalgia goggle can make that sound appealing. Did the positive points really outweigh these negatives?

---

This really depended on your job and flexibility. At the opposite end of the spectrum, I was a Taru BRD main (WHM, BLM and SCH on the side) with a lot of gear, enough so to main heal for multiple pulls whilst the proper healer just rested through to keep chains going for longer. It was a cold day in hell if I couldn't get a solid merit group going within 10 minutes. Rather, getting a decent spot with enough mobs was my problem :o /humblebrag.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Was it really that's bad? I've heard that a lot. Frankly I wouldn't want to sit for 2 hours, unable to level my character if that's what I wanted to do. Not even nostalgia goggle can make that sound appealing. Did the positive points really outweigh these negatives?

---

The short answer is: Yes. it is absolutely true.

More elaborate answer:
Not all the time, but enough that it became a known aspect of leveling jobs, esp. when you were leveling the less desirable jobs.
If you were the god sent jobs Bard, Scholar, White Mage, Black Mage then you never had a worry.
Even then, some jobs were desireable to different degrees depending on the level they were at the time XD.

But it was ok! Part of the charm was you talked a lot to people and networked even while waiting around. Community was a huge part of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Was it really that's bad? I've heard that a lot. Frankly I wouldn't want to sit for 2 hours, unable to level my character if that's what I wanted to do. Not even nostalgia goggle can make that sound appealing. Did the positive points really outweigh these negatives?

---

It was that bad.

I remember LFP for up to 4 hours without getting anything sometimes and you were unable to level at all unless you found a party (unless you were a Beastmaster anyway). 4 hours was not super common but anywhere from 1-3 hours was normal sometimes.

It was also extremely bad when it came to what job you were playing since some jobs just weren't as desired as others.

I mean you can network and get linkshells and people to level with, but sometimes there wasn't anyone on or people were busy so it was hard to just level when you wanted to. Also finding people of the proper level....they didn't add the level sync party function until years later so it didn't matter how many friends you had if they didn't have a job around your level to party with.

FFXI was fun back in the day, but honestly everything in it took WAY too much time investment. It was fine when I was a young teen, but as an adult I could never ever play a game like that again. Spending years and so much time invested but not obtaining your goals is ridiculous. Like spending 8 years and never obtaining a piece of equipment that you worked for for like 7 of those years, yeah....it was fun to play the game itself at the time, but I definitely don't miss it.

For me FFXIV has surpassed FFXI in every way.

FFXI had more dept and encouraged grouping and exploration. I still remember the Summoner class quests, I enjoyed those quests. Sadly MMORPGS like FFXI wont be made again, players these days want their content fast and easy.

The only thing that I disliked about FFXI was that if you were new and alone, leveling was going to take ages. Lucky for me, I made friends fast and found a nice Linkshell.

I don't see the rose-tinted glasses that people keep mentioning in this thread. I'll sing XI's praises all day long for the things it got right and the problems it corrected over time, but I'll also bring up every stupid and painful piece of bad gameplay and non-intuitive system that ever darkened its doorstep (remember when they tried introducing augmented items with a pseudo materia system but it was botched from day one?)

I'm not a teenager anymore so I don't have the time to sit for 2-3 hours chit chatting while LFP, even though I do miss the heavy amount of conversation the slow difficult gameplay necessitated. But XIV also frequently loses my interest after each patch and with how safe they're playing it with each and every chance to make themselves better. I'm also more jaded when I hear the dev's excuses for why they can't do things in this game that XI got to work with arguably worse spaghetti code but this just seems to be how SE runs their MMO's unless the DQ one runs better?

At the end of the day, XIV and XI are very very different games that do certain things better than the other. XI adopted a handful of XIV's systems and frankly XIV would be well-served to copy a few from its older sibling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Things like the awful EXP loss penalty on death that would even level you backwards if you were unlucky to die while being too close to the previous level still EXP wise (you lost 10% of the total exp needed for the next level when you died, raising gave some of that lost exp back), enemies being ridiculously dangerous even for minor trash mob wildlife like rabbits and yet giving minuscule EXP for it, having to party for everything and even then certain content pretty much restricting party make up to certain Jobs, airships running on tight schedules that all too often would result in players missing one by the skin of their teeth and then having to waste 10+ minutes of real time sitting doing nothing on the dock waiting for the next one, people abusing NIN as a subjob for Utsusemi thinking it made them invincible and then not accepting that it didn't (and thus leaving WHMs like me to have to raise them for their stupidity), no minimap, quest journal that was virtually useless and told you nothing about what you needed to do for a quest (thus forcing you to look online for the (often misleading, incomplete or inaccurate) information, important quests (even main scenario ones) that were locked behind invisible 'fame' counters for each city that forced you to do thousands of pointless fetch quests just to 'build up fame', need I go on?

---

The game hasn't been like that for like, how many years? You're bashing the game for something that doesn't exist anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Justuas

The game hasn't been like that for like, how many years? You're bashing the game for something that doesn't exist anymore.

---

And at the time, those mechanics while extremely punishing and restrictive were just how MMOs were back then for the most part. It was also a conscious design direction taken by the devs to encourage cooperation and communication through adversity. Is it bad nowadays? Arguably yes for many valid reasons and I can see how it left a bad taste in many players' mouths. It borders on bitterness for some people though, just like the sad sacks who refuse to play XIV because of SE siphoning profits from there to fund 1.0's development back in the day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Final-Fantasy

Final Fantasy 11 is great even today, just looks very dated, and could do with a visual make over.

---

It has one. It's called FFXIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

It has one. It's called FFXIV.

---

I realy wouldnt call FFXI and FFXIV the same. Aside from spell names, races and being a mmorpg, both games are different from each other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

The same bias as people who keep claiming that FFXI was "better" than FFXIV, or that FFXIV "should learn" from FFXI, merely based on their own good memories. And I don't see you complain about those.

---

Everyone is welcome to have an opinion. This is why I also posted:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

I think this is an important thing to remember. It is an incredibly different game, and of course everyone has their own particular taste when it comes to games. It is also possible to enjoy both, and also find faults in both :X

---

You dislike grindy games, and you've never even played XI. That is perfectly fine.

What irks me is when people start dismissing other's opinions as them simply having rose-tinted glasses. It adds another level when it's coming from someone who has never even tried the game.

I'll admit XI wasn't perfect but thing like losing exp on death weren't really as bad as they sound.
Was it annoying to delevel and lose gear sure. But the reality was it was also easily avoidable just one or 2 extra kills in an exp party would buffer you nicely. And failing that just told your old gear for a bit till you got part way Into your level. (if you sold your old gear the second you dinged then sure you'd have issues but that's because doing that was a stupid thing to do)

I quite liked the loss of exp on death as it generally made you respect the world a lot more and generally care about your character. Ffxi was the stop look both ways before crossing the road kind of environment you had to respect the world around you. In comparison xiv is just step out In front of a great big truck because it just doesn't matter if it hits you.

Like many have said vanadiel is a much deeper world and is/was more alive than eorzea ever will be. And it did feel much grander as well. One of my first quests involved me climbing a hill in gustaberg to visit the memorial of the miners. In truth by the time I made it to the top I was maybe only 4 or 5 minutes away from bastok but it felt like I had gone so far. or even the first time I made it to the dunes.

The world was more dangerous but not stupidly so. People have said how even running to jeuno at low level was a nightmare but it wasn't. There was a clear path with sign posts all over the place and if you follow the path you would very very rarely run into any issues. If however you ran in a straight line across the zone then sure you'd run through lots of dangerous monsters that could easily kill you.

Community was better as well. And general player attitudes. Generally speaking in XI it wasn't about "I" it was about "WE" it was about making players stronger as a group and not so much as individuals.

My LS for example had 15-20 people that would come and do temenos even though they didn't need it. And then people like myself who never needed appolyon or einherjar but would always turn up to help. the goal was generally always make the group stronger as a whole. I think that's why I'm still friends with many of the people I played XI with even 7 years later.

I sometimes think that's a key thing. If playing XI you saw the game as all about "you you you" then you wouldn't really get very far at all and you would struggle to find parties or people willing to help. But If however you saw the game as "WE" or "US" then you would find invites for exp parties and things came very very quickly even as lol jobs and any help you needed was never far away..

I think that's part of the problem xiv community has. It's all about "me me me." And thats generally why so many groups and static and things fall apart or why so many people jump fcs or linlshells so frequently. Join a farm party get your drop and run for the hills. there's no loyalty or consideration for those around them. get what you need and jump to the next group.

If you acted like that in xi you'd find you'd never get an invite for anything at all ever. Yet in xiv it's entirely acceptable behaviour.

Someone also mentioned things like airships running on strict timetables in XI and vendors stock changing based on days of week and conquest standings or even waiting till the next day to finish a quest. Yet these things helped make vanadium feel even more alive. In essence in ffxi the game revolved around vanadiel. It was centre stage. The player was just one tiny part of that. And they had adapt to the world around them.

In ffxiv however the game revolves entirely around the player. The world adapts to the player. With all its instances and stuff going on for every little thing. And I think that is a big part of why eorzea will never be the living vibrant world vanadiel is or was..

FFXI was always my first MMORPG I really sunk my teeth into. I had delved into Ultima Online for a very small bit, and Ragnarok Online as well as Everquest, but I really really pushed myself to play FFXI.

I have a love hate relationship with that game.

I'll always cherish the memories of my static group every friday playing together. I will NOT cherish having to play a white mage (by choice, unfortunately, as we wouldn't be going far without a healer) because I effectively felt like White mage could do nothing but party and that's it. They were useless otherwise other than teleporting to get gil.

To say that the game has aged well is probably not exactly true either. I rejoined for 30 days when Abyssea was new and while there certainly are a lot of quality of life changes which I can appreciate, I quickly realized that without friends that were playing, I got bored quickly again and just...stopped. And outdated graphics and the fact that there are a few UI issues I have, it just never caught back.

It was more for the friendship and fun times I had with friends than the game itself and I realized that quickly after two years of playing since the release that even that wasn't enough to make me want to play. I LOATHED White Mage with a passion lol

I will say that the weapon skill system was neat. But could NEVER live in a modern MMO if the way was random as to how the leveling was, but the weapon skill system where combining together? That was, by far, the most FUN combat system I had the pleasure to play with. The fact that you had to work together to activate weapon skills....it was just awesome. But I don't honestly think it could be done in the current game just do to how people are nowadays in MMOs. They rather focus on their own stuff instead of working together. You see it in runs right now (Not saying every time, but most of the time.).

I frankly would be shocked and afraid if they introduced a weapon system a la 11 in 14 simply because of how for so long the system wasn't conductive to this. It would shock the whole playerbase and probably not go over well.

There's too many differences between both games to ever bring any of the fun ideas 11 did in 14 because they are categorically different games. That's why you can't really ask for 11 mechanics in 14. It wouldn't work. Especially combat features like the Weapon Skills. (short of making it a skill that's on a cooldown and can only be activated and recognizes when you're linking with others. It would take a huge writing in the code to look that up and not be confused by the 100s ofother skills, especially cause they don't have it in the code already.)

I don't know. I get pangs here and there but it's more about never finishing the story. But then I went back to it and I never really pushed myself 'to' finish the story. And I had gotten to level 99 too. It just..had its time. It's done now and I'm at peace with not playing the game anymore. If they port the game like they said to handheld devices, I can most assuredly tell you I'd get it just so I can relive the stories...but I don't think I can ever go revisit Vana'diel anymore solely because it just has had its time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

What irks me is when people start dismissing other's opinions as them simply having rose-tinted glasses. It adds another level when it's coming from someone who has never even tried the game.

---

Ironically, the rose-tinted glasses comment came from someone who happened to have played the game, who I was fully agreeing with. And I'm fully agreeing because, while I might not have played FFXI itself, I did play -or rather, suffered- other games that were the exact same level (Ragnarok Online and Lineage II). I have experienced the same things people are commenting in this thread about FFXI. I've always been very bitter about old school MMORPGs for all those reasons. So when I see people talking about how "superior" all those things were compared with the current system we have, I naturally will have something to say, and I believe that I have the same right as everyone else to state my opinion on the matter without anyone pulling the victim card on me, especially when the people who are being dismissive (as you call it) about the way FFXIV is only get a pat in the back from you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

The recent rehash of the XI XIV collaboration event hit me pretty hard. The nostalgia was unreal. XI was my first mmo, and I invested five years into it that created a lot of memories. That last year though, was just me leaving and coming back over and over again looking for something that was no longer there. It was sad indeed when I just knew that my time with the game was over.

Coming into XIV, I knew if I continued to look for that first-time-playing-an-mmo experience, my sub wouldn't last long here either. I had to accept that those days are well behind me.


XI is a dinosaur compared to today's standards. I have no desire to play a game with the engine it uses. I don't enjoy not being able to kill a rabbit the same level as me. I hate my explorations coming to straight halt if I get aggroed. I'm not going to state that XI is a better game than XIV due to merits of nostalgia. I don't work that way. But XI is without question a beautiful game filled with great story, music, characters, areas, villains, and most of all, players. Many players back then we're first time mmo'ers and it created an environment that can no longer be found today.

XI has been psychologically buried for me. May it rest in piece. It is XIV's time now.

---

This is essentially the same feeling for me. I spent so much time in FFXI and i loved alot of it. However, I started almost 2 years after launch and essentially had to solo my way to 75. I had a good LS, always willing to help, but the sad fact about XI is that it is way too time consuming. MMOs by nature are time consuming, but XI was just way too slow. I still listen to the soundtrack all the time, and I am filled with memories that make me want to play it again, but as you said, it is XIV's time now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebazy

A more coherent musical score with some hauntingly memorable themes in there. Whilst FFXIV trumps it for battle music, FFXI's open world was full of songs that I can still instantly identify and visualise to this day. Gustaberg, Sanctuary of Zi'tah, Heaven's Tower, Tavnazia to name but a few. Even relatively 'mundane' tracks such as the Promyvions were perfectly crafted for their purpose and matched the eerie and absolutely unique atmosphere within.

---

im gunna add Caedarva Mire to the haunting musical soundtrack... seriously, I still get nightmares about that place

also, there are too many posts to quote, but alot of people are being disingenuous about the community in XI vs. XIV. Having had multiple characters on multiple servers in this game, every FC ive joined has had people willing to help with stuff even though they didnt "need" it. In XI, from my experience, that was not always the case, as getting to the areas where people needed help was time consuming in and of itself. It goes both ways. There are very helpful FC/LS in both games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

There are very helpful FC/LS in both games.

---

Both game have its ups and downs the reason or differences is ffxi didn't have a df/pf/cross server so you were depended players on your server to do content with which means more people were in linkshells and had mulit end game activities to schedule for. Ffxiv on the other hand you don't need to be in fc to complete majority of it's content threw df/pf the help is quick and easy to complete and end game is like two activities Savage and allot consider that being mid-core know because it been adjusted to be more clearable by the masses and ultimate came out which is the hardest of any content currently I'll throw in extreme primals for kicks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

Ironically, the rose-tinted glasses comment came from someone who happened to have played the game, who I was fully agreeing with. And I'm fully agreeing because, while I might not have played FFXI itself, I did play -or rather, suffered- other games that were the exact same level (Ragnarok Online and Lineage II). I have experienced the same things people are commenting in this thread about FFXI. I've always been very bitter about old school MMORPGs for all those reasons. So when I see people talking about how "superior" all those things were compared with the current system we have, I naturally will have something to say, and I believe that I have the same right as everyone else to state my opinion on the matter without anyone pulling the victim card on me, especially when the people who are being dismissive (as you call it) about the way FFXIV is only get a pat in the back from you.

---

There is a difference between saying "I dislike MMOs like XI due to <reasons>" and claiming that people must only like the game due to looking at it with rose-tinted glasses. One is giving your opinion, one is discrediting the opinion of others. It may be a fine difference, but it's there.

If someone says they think <random feature> from XI is loads better than XIV, sure, debate that. It's not hard to have a conversation with people of varying opinions without just shutting down their voice as invalid.

Also, who is pulling the victim card?

FFXI is attractive to people because it's the opposite of this game, and its strengths are this game's flaws and vice versa. Like there is no large endgame in this game for players of all skill types like Sky, and there is virtually no group open world content. There's no real economy in FFXIV, and you can ignore crafting for the most part. The flip side though is everything in FFXI was a big pain in the butt to actually do, and you couldn't just pop in and make slow progress; yo could even lose progress if someone screwed up. It's just that the positives of ffxi are looking really attractive since this game isn't bothering to change much or make meaningful content in the modes it already has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by odintius

Both game have its ups and downs the reason or differences is ffxi didn't have a df/pf/cross server so you were depended players on your server to do content with which means more people were in linkshells and had mulit end game activities to schedule for. Ffxiv on the other hand you don't need to be in fc to complete majority of it's content threw df/pf the help is quick and easy to complete and end game is like two activities Savage and allot consider that being mid-core know because it been adjusted to be more clearable by the masses and ultimate came out which is the hardest of any content currently I'll throw in extreme primals for kicks.

---

Jesus, punctuation is a thing. And you didn't really respond to my comment.

Yes, the DF/PF make thins more streamlined for people to get the help they want, but even something like doing to MSQ dungeons is way easier to get people to go with you from your FC than it was in XI. There is a certain charm to XI that XIV will never surpass, but lets not make blanket statements like the community in XI was way more helpful, when the fact of the matter is their are very helpful groups of people in both games. You have to associate yourself with the right people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

There is a difference between saying "I dislike MMOs like XI due to <reasons>" and claiming that people must only like the game due to looking at it with rose-tinted glasses. One is giving your opinion, one is discrediting and the opinion of others. It may be a fine difference, but it's there.

---

With comments like these all over the place:

Quote:

---

Yes, FFXI is still a far better game.

---

You seem to be nitpicking here. Very sensitive and offended about the words from one side, yet oddly understanding and uncaring about the other's.

In any case, let's not derail from the matter. My comment was aimed at the comparison between the way both games are played. At the claim that FFXI is better or more entertaining than FFXIV/modern games in general, I say that FFXI -like most old school MMORPGs- has core systems that are not generally considered fun or rewarding (unless you simply enjoy the "challenge" of being constantly punished or having your time wasted), and I see quite a few old players in this thread that seem to agree. MMORPGs have evolved for a reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

FFXI is attractive to people because it's the opposite of this game, and its strengths are this game's flaws and vice versa. Like there is no large endgame in this game for players of all skill types like Sky, and there is virtually no group open world content. There's no real economy in FFXIV, and you can ignore crafting for the most part. The flip side though is everything in FFXI was a big pain in the butt to actually do, and you couldn't just pop in and make slow progress; yo could even lose progress if someone screwed up. It's just that the positives of ffxi are looking really attractive since this game isn't bothering to change much or make meaningful content in the modes it already has.

---

FFXI is still a pretty good game, I still play it when I'm bored of FFXIV. I really miss the whole hard work dynamics of it. The only real reason I play FFXIV and FFXI is more for the story and just like FFXI I want all relics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

With comments like these all over the place:

You seem to be nitpicking here. Very sensitive and offended about the words from one side, yet oddly understanding and uncaring about the other's.

In any case, let's not derail from the matter. My comment was aimed at the comparison between the way both games are played. At the claim that FFXI is better or more entertaining than FFXIV/modern games in general, I say that FFXI -like most old school MMORPGs- has core systems that are not generally considered fun or rewarding (unless you simply enjoy the "challenge" of being constantly punished or having your time wasted), and I see quite a few old players in this thread that seem to agree. MMORPGs have evolved for a reason.

---

Your right MMORPGs have evolved, they are more designed for the cupcake / snowflake / here is a trophy for trying generation.

I would pop on my FFXI character if SE bought back the discount like make it a couple dollars to add FFXI sub to your account if you already pay for FFXIV. I usually play some FFXI when they have the free weeks.

It's not rose-tinted glasses that make people think FFXI is great; it's survivorship bias. The game was actively hostile to the huge majority of players, most of whom stopped playing it and aren't in this thread claiming it was great. If you were lucky enough to have the right circumstances to love FFXI, good for you. However, it is not possible to create a game like that with wide appeal, by its very nature.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Your right MMORPGs have evolved, they are more designed for the cupcake / snowflake / here is a trophy for trying generation.

---

*snort* please...

The game has evolved so more people can play it (i.e. buy it).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Your right MMORPGs have evolved, they are more designed for the cupcake / snowflake / here is a trophy for trying generation.

---

Since we're all playing and enjoying this game, I'm curious if you're trying to insult everyone in this thread with those names.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Talraen

It's not rose-tinted glasses that make people think FFXI is great; it's survivorship bias. The game was actively hostile to the huge majority of players, most of whom stopped playing it and aren't in this thread claiming it was great. If you were lucky enough to have the right circumstances to love FFXI, good for you. However, it is not possible to create a game like that with wide appeal, by its very nature.

---

I disagree , FFXI was not really hostile towards people. It was more of a group effort and it took part from both ends. I myself ran an LS , in fact the people that were anti social were the ones that had the hardest time. Back in early FFXI, if you recall when it first came out, some people were duo boxing ( my self included ) just to help my group speed things up. Even today is not hard and most people will still help if you can proof your not one of those who just gets what they want and leave. That was the biggest poison in FFXI. The story, and even now NPC's that can help you with content have made it solo friendly for normal story line. For endgame I would recommend checking LS groups and forums. So no it was not the hostility, it was more of people wanting stuff for not doing the work and taking advantage of people. That and being anti social.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

With comments like these all over the place:

You seem to be nitpicking here. Very sensitive and offended about the words from one side, yet oddly understanding and uncaring about the other's.

---

What you quoted is an opinion, and as I said, you are more than welcome to share your own.

I don't care if people hate XI. Makes absolutely no difference to me at all. What I don't like is people who can't seem to have normal conversions without twisting words or just writing off an opinion they don't agree with using some frivolous excuse.

Please show me where I've been sensitive or offended over someone saying they don't like XI. Please. Because at this point you're just making things up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alimdia

Since we're all playing and enjoying this game, I'm curious if you're trying to insult everyone in this thread with those names.

---

Nope this is more towards the people that complain that content is too hard and complain within the first week and really don't know or understand what a TRUE grind is. If it hits someones nerve I would wonder why. For those who actually played FFXI and know what a grind is, teamwork, and hardships of content they get it.