Please make cash-shop stuff earn-able in game

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

They should add a system to obtain Mog Shop items in game. Maybe not immediately, but after a year? Event items originally obtained ingame go to the cash shop after a year (without any means to reobtain them otherwise), so why not be "fair" and do it the other way around too.

I'm bring sarcastic here btw, SE will not do any of it while they can get away with milking the players on their cash shop for event items that every f2p game would make available in subsequent years to players that just started or missed the event and while people paying more than a month's worth of sub for their overpriced mounts. Honestly, I wouldn't have such a big issue with this cash shop thing, if prices were reasonable, but a month sub for a mount??? And before people start bashing at me, I'm more than able to afford them, I just refuse to throw any more money at them as long as they have these outrageous prices, while at the same time having one of the most expensive subs out there.

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Most expensive subs? Its one of the few MMOs with a sub. What other subs are you comparing it to?

The prices are probably set based on projected sales and revenue. They might sell more with a lower price but the question would be if it was enough more to make up for the less money made per sale. People get paid a lot of money to forecast that stuff and build budget projections.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Others games (WoW, BnS or GW2) offer a fair system for this and they still make money out of it. The option is there.

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Are you kidding? I played B&S for a couple months and their outfits ranged from $10-15, had far more frequent updates, exclusives and eventually introduced lootboxes. Their progression system is also tied to obtaining specific weapons to break down. Guess where you got those if you didn't want to spend hours upon hours fighting RNG? Lootboxes! Come to think of it, the Valentines dress was gated behind a $25 price tag. Compare that to the Songbird outfit and emote that were given to us through an in-game event. Like the Mogstation or not, let's not go painting false pictures here. Blade and Soul's cash shop is no different than your typical F2P, and far worse than XIV's.

I don't like the idea of in-game rewards being available in the shop. It seems a lot like P2W to me. Holiday items are unavailable in the game by the time they go in the shop so that's more to do with making those (easily obtained) items available to latecomers. But imagine Fenrir/Ixion/Firebird etc being sold while people are still working on getting them in game. Not cool.

Recolors of some cash shop stuff would be nice to have in game though.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

You know what WoW, GW2 and BnS had in common? All three games allow you to convert gold into cash shop currency (well, with WoW is even better). Sure, BnS business model is crap, so? That's beside the point.

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And the common misconception about that practice is that Blizzard and NCSoft aren't still getting paid. Someone else had to purchase the WoW subscription token to put it on the market, after all. Blizzard couldn't care less where the money comes from so long as it lines their pockets. In the case of GW2 and BnS, their respective cash shops profit significantly higher than FFXIV despite its sub. There's a reason F2P games bring in substantially higher revenue.

No actually ESO and DCUO have subs that are 14.99/15.99.

FFXIV has one of the cheapest subs around even compared to F2P games that use a sub model. And those games also have a cash shop, while they have cheaper prices than our shop for mounts, dyes, etc, I dont believe they have the quality of content that FFXIV has.

I appreciate the cash shop in ffxiv. If the rumors are true, it is the reason SE was able to drop the PS3 and use double the budget of HW for SB.

Most of the items are already obtainable ingame. 1 year before it show up in the mog shop for around 2 weeks

Doubt this will happened, mog station has proven is Worth. Outside of this Yoshi is NOT in charge of MS, is Queen who is in charge and she basically her on head the only thing Yoshi and her communicate at is when she need to know his future development plan...

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I cant speak for BnS but both WoW and GW2's system are dependent on having another system in game which sells gold for real life money. Since many of those who object to the cash shop, also object to the idea of SE selling in game currency its likely this option wouldn't be a fix most people upset would be happy with.

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Those people upset with a possible crysta - gil conversion are scared of a boogeyman, gil is already used mostly for vanity and furniture, you can't buy tome gear or raid gear with gil, there's no pay to win.

Inflation happens? Good, maybe more people will decide to participate in the market instead of leaving it to a couple crafters to dominate everything. It's no coincidence inflation is not a problem in servers with a high number of crafters.

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Originally Posted by LastFireAce

Doubt this will happened, mog station has proven is Worth. Outside of this Yoshi is NOT in charge of MS, is Queen who is in charge and she basically her on head the only thing Yoshi and her communicate at is when she need to know his future development plan...

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The "producer" part of his title means the cash shop team has to go through him.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Those people upset with a possible crysta - gil conversion are scared of a boogeyman, gil is already used mostly for vanity and furniture, you can't buy tome gear or raid gear with gil, there's no pay to win.

Inflation happens? Good, maybe more people will decide to participate in the market instead of leaving it to a couple crafters to dominate everything. It's no coincidence inflation is not a problem in servers with a high number of crafters.

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Well there is a small window when a new raid tier releases where the new crafted gear is the best available and people will pay a lot of gil for it, materia and consumables so its not wholly true. It might not be BIS but a set of fully Pentamelded HQ combat gear is still pretty damn good for the current tier until late in the tier. Of course you could get around this by simply nerfing the battle gear but that would seriously devalue crafting and gathering which is a very time and gil intensive activity.

As for inflation, if anything it will just mean those who create goods will get more gold making many items even more unaffordable for those who don't engage in things like crafting and gathering and don't buy gil.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

The "producer" part of his title means the cash shop team has to go through him.

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Actually he has said that any cash shop items are green lit by a someone he calls 'the empress of the Mogstation'. She decides what is developed for sale or not based upon what is the expected sales verse the cost of development. Case in point was the Krile outfit which had some technical hurdles to be overcome if it was to be developed and so hadn't been green lit yet over concerns that its sales wouldn't sufficiently cover the amount of time and cost it would take to make the outfit work for all player models.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I made the OP a little tongue-in-cheek and maybe should have just added to an original one called "I hate the cash-shop".

It's like that gold-leaf wallpaper is awesome but I don't even want it if it's just for cash. Make me craft one of everything in-game. Hell, make me craft ten and I'd probably do it. It would be nice to have something to work towards.

And in my opinion it seems like the trend is starting to be the better stuff going to the mogstation. The starlight bear is cool, but the carbuncle mount is objectively way cooler. It could probably be scientifically measured.

I didn't know about the process for how the items are selected so thanks for informing me. I wasn't trying to come across as whiny or entitled in the OP. I guess I'd just like more stuff to work towards and don't get enjoyment from the items I pay cash for.

I also love the level 68 crafted gear and use it for my tank and healer. Looks like a battle mage :D

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Originally Posted by alimdia

you can't buy tome gear or raid gear with gil, there's no pay to win.

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It's almost like content sellers don't exist.

Sadly Regardless of where money is intended to go. Money goes to where it's needed.

Think of the gas tax. which 100% is to go to roads maintances. But sadly it doesn't.

Surely if there's something that someone really, really wants from the Mog Station they can simply work at putting money aside over time until they're able to afford it? Sales happen, after all.

I would not like to see Mog Station items made available in-game. It'd mean less money for Square Enix.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

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I'm implying that it's my money and I'd like to spend it any which way I would like. But thanks for being judgmental, such is the XIV official forum. :^)

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Those people upset with a possible crysta - gil conversion are scared of a boogeyman, gil is already used mostly for vanity and furniture, you can't buy tome gear or raid gear with gil, there's no pay to win.

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Tanks' best in slot accessories are crafted, therefore a money conversion would be pay to win. I think all the crafted stuff was also best in slot for many weeks of this raid tier until tome gear and raid gear became attainable.

Someone with the gil to buy crafted gear has an advantage over someone who doesn't, and therefore real money being involved would make it pay to win. Not only would the crysta users get gear easier, but other people earning their gil the proper way would see their effort lose value when crafters raise prices due to increased demand.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

But then how would SE get piles of money to invest in that FFVII remake?

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Allow players to resell items on the auction house. Works in other games.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

Is that what it's for?

They should do a "at least 20% of revenue goes back to the FF14 staff bonuses" thing, I'd be more likely to consider the cash shop then.

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iirc SE used a decent amount of FFXIV profits to fund development of FFXV as well.

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Originally Posted by freja_eorzea

it's starting to feel really gross. I don't even care about the money, it's the principle.

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I understand complaints about price and how not everyone can afford them, but if that's not the issue, what is? What principle? Why cant content creators sell content? If said content rubs you the wrong way, that's fine. IRL, in retail stores, you would just not buy the stuff. You wouldn't demand that they include it in your monthly membership. Or would people actually do that...idk.

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Originally Posted by Enla

It'd be interesting if they took a page from LoTRO's book and awarded 'crysta' for earning achievements. Sure it took awhile to actually get enough to buy anything substantial, but I was exceedingly proud back in the day when my hard work earned me enough coins over in LoTRO to purchase access to one of the map packs and a mount. It also works in SE's favor because there's still going to be people who will be antsy with the slow gains this system would provide and just jump the gun to buying what they want outright.

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I actually really liked this in LOTRO. I was able to pay for 2 expansions by just farming stuff in game. After a while it became way to tedious, but the option was there, which IMO is a good thing.

With regards to jumping the gun, thats totally fine.

To answer OP post... some of the things should just be on the shop, while others just available in game. I love my Bennu mount and only bought it because I'm never going to get the Twintania mount or any of the other ones I want (anytime soon) so the 25$ was totally worth it. If you want those things, you gotta pay. Simple.

As long female Miqo'te and Au Ra exist who buy dresses off the mog store there is no reason for them to make them earnable ingame because it's a bad idea from a business standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Benjo

As long female Miqo'te and Au Ra exist who buy dresses off the mog store

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Nice way to single out certain players when players of all races and genders do so. Also rich coming from someone pretending to be an NPC.

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Originally Posted by Benjo

As long female Miqo'te and Au Ra exist who buy dresses off the mog store there is no reason for them to make them earnable ingame because it's a bad idea from a business standpoint.

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I feel underrepresented now. :(

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Originally Posted by freja_eorzea

There's been alot of cool stuff coming out in the mog-station lately. I'm thinking specifically of the gold-leaf flooring, emotes and carbuncle mounts. It's starting to feel like the devs are just putting the coolest stuff in the cash-shop.

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To be fair, most of the emotes on the Mogstation were from past events in game. At least they made them accessible, if only for a fee. Other items, like NPC gear, have to be changed and worked to fit character models, so it's extra work (you'd be surprised at the amount of people that firmly believe you can take a mesh and just slap it on any model and it'll work 100% with no issues) that wasn't even intended to be made available to players, but was because of demand. Seems only fair.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

It's almost like content sellers don't exist.

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Content sellers exist regardless of currency conversion, and most of the community don't see content selling as a problem.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Tanks' best in slot accessories are crafted, therefore a money conversion would be pay to win. I think all the crafted stuff was also best in slot for many weeks of this raid tier until tome gear and raid gear became attainable.

Someone with the gil to buy crafted gear has an advantage over someone who doesn't, and therefore real money being involved would make it pay to win. Not only would the crysta users get gear easier, but other people earning their gil the proper way would see their effort lose value when crafters raise prices due to increased demand.

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If raid gear is available then crafted is not the best (exc. tank accessories), crafted gear falls into the same category as food or consumables, just tools to an end.

It's not like crafted gear would suddenly become exclusive of people who buy gil, anyone can craft gear, anyone can wear said gear, same as other consumables. Look at the world first and see how many of those people buy gil. Gil is not a factor because gil is easy to make. If what you said was true the people currently holding over 1b gil would be the ones getting world first clears, but it happens that skill is a factor your can't buy with gil.

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but other people earning their gil the proper way would see their effort lose value when crafters raise prices due to increased demand.

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The proper way is crafting and gathering, if there's an increase in demand then there's an increase of profit for people making money the proper way. Your point makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

I understand complaints about price and how not everyone can afford them, but if that's not the issue, what is? What principle? Why cant content creators sell content? If said content rubs you the wrong way, that's fine. IRL, in retail stores, you would just not buy the stuff. You wouldn't demand that they include it in your monthly membership. Or would people actually do that...idk.

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that's not the same thing? that's like HBO saying you need to pay for every episode of Game of Thrones, even though you pay monthly to get HBO to begin with.

you don't pay a monthly fee to go into a retail store (unless you want to talk about companies like Costco).

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Nice way to single out certain players when players of all races and genders do so.

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Let's be honest: The target audience of the mog store are those players who love to dress their characters like barbie dolls / running around in pinkish colored gear.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Also rich coming from someone pretending to be an NPC.

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I have never pretended to be a NPC so I don't know why are you spewing such nonsense. I just like his name and he's the most enjoyable character in the Stormblood main scenario.
But in regard of creative character naming, you weren't very creative yourself, right :D?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I feel underrepresented now. :(

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Fantasia can fix it :D

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

that's not the same thing? that's like HBO saying you need to pay for every episode of Game of Thrones, even though you pay monthly to get HBO to begin with.

you don't pay a monthly fee to go into a retail store (unless you want to talk about companies like Costco).

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That's a false equivalence. Your comparison would make more sense if they were selling game play content in the store but they are not. They are selling optional glamour and emotes . Maybe if they were selling dungeons you could use your GoT comparison.

You all are killing me with this cash shop drama. The carbuncle mounts really tipped folks over the edge. What is the difference between buying digital items in the cash shop because you like the game and buying physical merchandise from the SE store because you like the game? Are people mad there are books, CDs, plush, etc for the game? Those are all tied to even more expense, wait time on top of that and most have a digital item you can't get in game.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

That's a false equivalence. Your comparison would make more sense if they were selling game play content in the store but they are not. They are selling optional glamour and emotes . Maybe if they were selling dungeons you could use your GoT comparison.

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the guy i quoted calls it "content", it's just as much "false equivalence" to what he was saying.

and having stuff like the Odin mount in the cash shop and not as a drop in the fight is taking away from playable content. how many Odin farm parties were there?

if there were more glamour/emote rewards to Squadron missions, i would still be doing them.

I'm still of the mind that anything in the cash shop should be obtainable in game. If you missed an event, but want to get the gear, then mogstation.
Anything brand spanking new - If you want it now, buy it from the mogstation, or spend months earning it in game. Most peeps would buy I think, but a few who can't afford the additional outlay on top of their sub could earn tokens, maybe one a week from something like khloes journal, doing the most unpopular dungeons, pvp, maps or diadem. After 6 month worth of tokens you can afford a mogstation mount or something. Things like diadem have died, which is a shame as I never got to finish the big raid thing that happened in there. Give a proper incentive, get people back :)

I guess I regret making the OP, but did so out of frustration w/ the trend I perceived. IMO it feels like since 3.0 there's been less and less content and more cash-shop stuff. IMO the cash-shop is lame. I love all the glowy crafting tools I put in the work for, but would take no enjoyment in them if I had just paid cash. I bought the encyclopedia and mog blanket w/ pleasure, I just think in-game stuff should be worked for. I love this game and feel sad about the direction I perceive it as going, that's all. No disrespect to anyone w/ a different opinion.

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Originally Posted by freja_eorzea

I guess I regret making the OP, but did so out of frustration w/ the trend I perceived. IMO it feels like since 3.0 there's been less and less content and more cash-shop stuff. IMO the cash-shop is lame. I love all the glowy crafting tools I put in the work for, but would take no enjoyment in them if I had just paid cash. I bought the encyclopedia and mog blanket w/ pleasure, I just think in-game stuff should be worked for. I love this game and feel sad about the direction I perceive it as going, that's all. No disrespect to anyone w/ a different opinion.

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There hasn’t been a decrease in mounts/glamour/minions added to the game though. There are still more of all three of those in-game compared to the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Alot of people don't like having cash shops in sub based games, but then most of those don't understand what the sub actually pays for.. They seem to believe it's for everything the game has to offer. They also seem to believe the Mogstation is down to the XIV team, when in fact most of the Mogstation team don't even work on XIV itself, and Yoshi P has very little say on stuff for the Mogstation too. They also can't seem to grasp that things for the Mogstation (Not including seasonal and other stuff that was in the game before) were created specifically for the Mogstation, meaning if the Mogstation didn't exist, neither would most of the content within it. They were created for the purpose of more funding, which most P2P MMOs have cash shops for.

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I guess a lot of people still don't quite get it. Stuff like the Sleipnir mount for example would simply not exist in the game if it was not for the Mogstation. Your sub only pays for your access into the game. As someone said before in here; The game is a car, the sub is your insurance and the Mogstation is the extra parts like spoilers. Yoshi P himself does not have the authority to make the Mogstation items available in game, the 'Empress' in charge of the Mogstation is above him. He can suggest, but she has the authority, and they have a crap load to fund so the obvious answer will be no to this.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

There hasn’t been a decrease in mounts/glamour/minions added to the game though. There are still more of all three of those in-game compared to the cash shop.

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That's a good point. I guess I was conflating them all.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Alot of people don't like having cash shops in sub based games, but then most of those don't understand what the sub actually pays for.. They seem to believe it's for everything the game has to offer. They also seem to believe the Mogstation is down to the XIV team, when in fact most of the Mogstation team don't even work on XIV itself, and Yoshi P has very little say on stuff for the Mogstation too. They also can't seem to grasp that things for the Mogstation (Not including seasonal and other stuff that was in the game before) were created specifically for the Mogstation, meaning if the Mogstation didn't exist, neither would most of the content within it. They were created for the purpose of more funding, which most P2P MMOs have cash shops for.

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OK first post I ignored. Lets get my 2 cents across here "Cash Shop Supporter". This game has repeatedly been plagued with staff problems. We both agree? Yet some how they have staff for cash shop? Any fool can put two and two together, the company is screwing over the player base. Which is fine I see enough people like you that think it is awesome to pad the stock holders of SE. Saying that staff is cash shop only is just a spin. They could easily be designing gear for in game. I would actually be surprised if the people making the actual cash shop gear as shown for Chinese/korean are part of the team. The only people who aren't are the marketing and planning and not the actual designers. Not a lie to say the cash shop employees "planning and marketing" aren't part of the game and then use resources from the dev team.

A lot of stuff in the cash shop seems to be reused assets, meaning they are just a cash grab. Those specific assets might not exist. But if they had an extra team with the ability to make half a dozen more emotes a year. Seasonal events would have a lot more rewards.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

There hasn’t been a decrease in mounts/glamour/minions added to the game though. There are still more of all three of those in-game compared to the cash shop.

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I haven't counted. But do we not get one or two less sets, based on the dungeons going from 3 to patch to whatever it is now? SB has lowered the output and HW's was way below ARR. Are you counting by month or by patch? The patches took way longer meaning you could pretend got the same per patch (which I am not sure of) but not the same per year. Also remember they have removed previous holiday items for us who had been around since 1.0 that remember pre cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

I haven't counted. But do we not get one or two less sets, based on the dungeons going from 3 to patch to whatever it is now? SB has lowered the output and HW's was way below ARR. Are you counting by month or by patch? The patches took way longer meaning you could pretend got the same per patch (which I am not sure of) but not the same per year. Also remember they have removed previous holiday items for us who had been around since 1.0 that remember pre cash shop.

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First and foremost, the only patch to not follow a rough fourteen week schedule was 3.1. Secondly, dungeon gear in odd numbered patch became the same regardless of which dungeon it dropped from. Xelphtol and Gubal shared gear as did Sohm Al (hard) and Baelsar's Wall. Regardless, this has no bearing on the cash shop since that is an entirely separate team who develops those aesthetics.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

First and foremost, the only patch to not follow a rough fourteen week schedule was 3.1. Secondly, dungeon gear in odd numbered patch became the same regardless of which dungeon it dropped from. Xelphtol and Gubal shared gear as did Sohm Al (hard) and Baelsar's Wall. Regardless, this has no bearing on the cash shop since that is an entirely separate team who develops those aesthetics.

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Again staff capable of making assets for the game are not working for the team. If not already using members from the team. Do you believe that the people at cash shop don't need anyone from the main team to get the final products in the game. Supposedly stated team has said to have staffing issues.

No patch hit in under 14 weeks. 3.1 to 3.2 to 3.3 to 3.4 to 3.5 to 4.0. Not one patch made it out in 14 weeks. You can count as well used info from https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Category:Patches since easy to bring each full patch up. I know they did some creative math a couple times and said three months. While true you can actually get 16 weeks in three months.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Again staff capable of making assets for the game are not working for the team. If not already using members from the team. Do you believe that the people at cash shop don't need anyone from the main team to get the final products in the game. Supposedly stated team has said to have staffing issues.

No patch hit in under 14 weeks. 3.1 to 3.2 to 3.3 to 3.4 to 3.5 to 4.0. Not one patch made it out in 14 weeks. You can count as well used info from https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Category:Patches since easy to bring each full patch up. I know they did some creative math a couple times and said three months. While true you can actually get 16 weeks in three months.

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No, actually, they don't. They are merely given ideas of what might sell and design it based on perceived popularity. If the Mogstation closed down tomorrow, these people would either be relocated to another project or laid off entirely. Companies like Square, EA, Activision and etc have divisions whose sole purpose is micro-transactions. In fact, after Mass Effect: Andromeda failed expectations, EA quickly re-signed the entire Montreal team elsewhere, leaving a skeleton crew to handle multi-player. When that proved to return lackluster dividends, they were shut down. The idea that without a Cash Shop, more free glamour would be released is a complete myth. All the Carbuncle stuff jut never would have been made in the first place.

Hence why I said rough estimate. Their patches have all typically fallen between three and a half months to four.

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Originally Posted by freja_eorzea

There's been alot of cool stuff coming out in the mog-station lately. I'm thinking specifically of the gold-leaf flooring, emotes and carbuncle mounts. It's starting to feel like the devs are just putting the coolest stuff in the cash-shop. I'd like to politely request that those items be earn-able in game. I've bought mounts and outfits from the cash-shop in the past, but it's starting to feel really gross. I don't even care about the money, it's the principle. Please make all the cool stuff earn-able in game. It's not like we've got too much to do :)

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The vast majority of what's in the cash shop was available free in game at some point. I'm okay with it appearing in the cash shop at a later point. It's an incentive for them to continue to create new stuff. And for the stuff like the carbuncle mounts? Well, special mounts and such tend to be added in every game via a cash shop. *shrug* Why else would you buy it?

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Originally Posted by freja_eorzea

I just think in-game stuff should be worked for.

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But they are. If you look at the latest round of new things to the store, you have the emote, the carbuncle mounts/glam wear, and the rest was all available in game. We can count the mounts as one and the glam sets as one since they're just reskins -- so 7 new items and 4 were available in game at some point. The game rewards you for playing. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

the guy i quoted calls it "content", it's just as much "false equivalence" to what he was saying.

and having stuff like the Odin mount in the cash shop and not as a drop in the fight is taking away from playable content. how many Odin farm parties were there?

if there were more glamour/emote rewards to Squadron missions, i would still be doing them.

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I'm sorry, but "content" is content. We may dislike it, hate it, or put no value in obtaining it, but it's still content. Artists designed it and implemented them into the game, so its content. It's not the same kind of content like dungeons or raids, but it's still content.

to use Overwatch as an example, they have their graphic artists working on skins/sprays/emotes/etc constantly and everyone agrees that that is content.

edit: and yeah, I was imagining Costco as an example since it does in fact have a membership fee.