Anyone gets tired of the level 50 main story quest? Is this a recurring thread?

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Originally Posted by Rokke

As someone who joined during HW and wanted to jump into HW to play with friends as soon as I could, 2.x's slog was about as enjoyable as a root canal- and I love this game's story. 2.0 had some weird paced bits, but overall msq was enjoyable. 2.x's story itself isn't bad, but the 100 something fetchquests in a row stringing the story along is god awful. I hate that part of the game so much, $18 skip is worth every penny on an alt lol

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Except the majority of those 100 quests AREN'T fetchquests....

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Originally Posted by Nightroad

I am running a 3rd alt through it at the moment , and while it can be a bit tedious, doing a few quests and then something else along the way helps.
But could someone tell the other Scions we have link perls ? This run to one and speak there and then "lets all go back to HQ" is funny. ( in a bad way).

Ok , I confess , I am doing it for the Hildegard quests ....

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From what I understand it is possible to "tap" linkpearl conversations, so they shouldn't be used for anything even half-way secret or sensitive.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Except the majority of those 100 quests AREN'T fetchquests....

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A lot of 2.1-2.55 is just "preparing to do the thing" where whatever the thing is being whatever the patch was selling. 3.0+ is just constantly doing things. Not to mention it's constantly doing things with other people. Aside from a few notable exceptions(I particularly liked the bit in the tainted Shroud), you're alone doing something someone else asked you to do because they can't or won't do it themselves. You're pretty much chumming it up with Alphinaud and House Fortempts the entirety of HW, and you have a personal stake in it.

Also the pacing. 2.1-2.55 was just doing stuff. A lto fo it was important stuff and lead to other stuff, but it was still a conglomerate of different events for the time. The entirety of 3.0-3.5 was one proper story.

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Originally Posted by JCharms

I suppose I wasn't clear in my meaning.
I realise there's no way to trim the existing to 5 missions/quests, my suggestion revolves around making 5 new quests that would be somewhat long with the cut scene, and that would be enough to address the key narrative points of the story, just without all the travelling, choco butt sniffing and bag carrying stuff that was bloated on purpose because they were content patches of the time for people that wanted stuff to do.

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You're assigning the wrong motivation behind those quests - it's not "bloated on purpose" to fill time, it literally is paced intentionally like that for the sake of how they want the story to play out. What you see as pointless bloat is meant to be character moments to provide additional context for the culture and personalities of these people, as well as prepare for future plot elements. In TV terms, it's the Season 2 start, where the big issue from Season 1 was dealt with (and was written as a single arc since the show may have ended after that first season) and so they need to start moving toward new things but that means taking the time to set-up new things (I think many players view the story here as one would a movie or a single-player game's story, and it just isn't created with that style in mind - Yoshi-P has even made references to how it's set-up more like TV seasons).

This may come as a shock, but the story team isn't trying to waste your time with pointless crap.

Also, I was looking more for a break down of what key narrative points you think would be able to brought into that "5 missions" limit, even with it being longer. What you would cut, what you would change, etc., that doesn't then mean that future characters or events don't need to also be rewritten or redone because the foundation element present in 2.x is no longer there, while also not having it end up being a rushed mess. I've done this myself as a thought exercise (which is why I don't find the "it could be done" to really be a worthwhile answer) before and was only able to trim out about 30% of what's there now plus eliminating the need for travel by using the technique they do now with moving you to the next location whenever it makes sense to do so - which could absolutely be added into what we have now - and it was at that point that future stories start to become noticeably impacted or elements in 2.x begin to feel really rushed.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

Also the pacing. 2.1-2.55 was just doing stuff. A lto fo it was important stuff and lead to other stuff, but it was still a conglomerate of different events for the time. The entirety of 3.0-3.5 was one proper story.

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That first actually describes all of 2.0 as well. All of 2.0-2.x up until the HW story started was the story of us becoming the Warrior of Light. That was the story being told - which consisted of many shorter storylines with little other connection between them. The 2.1-2.3 quests were no different in that regard than the ones which preceded them.

The Heavensward storyline actually started with patch 2.4 and ended with 3.3. 3.4-3.5 was mainly setup for SB and not part of the HW story - that ended with the death of Nidhogg.


As background we also have the threat of the Garlean Empire as well as the plots of the Ascians - both of which come to the foreground now and then, but mostly are just background.

Even if it's background, it was still there. 2.0-2.55 is full of nothing, or at least what seems like nothing at the time. The only real thing that seems like plot is Shiva, but Leviathan and all the other gaggle of primals, the founding of the Crystal Braves, and the move to the Rising Stones feels like filler all the way up until it suddenly isn't. Everything is just very one-tone. You're the warrior of light, do warrior of light things, PRAISE THE WARRIOR OF LIGHT!

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Originally Posted by Berethos

This may come as a shock, but the story team isn't trying to waste your time with pointless crap.

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Running/teleporting back and forth for 1 line(5 words) of dialogue can hardly be considered "an MSQ", and those quests aside, it's true that there's a lot of quests without any MSQ context, but you need to do them, because they are part of "MSQ".

Well, they already said that they wanted to change "an early game experience", it's just another question if that involves quests or just low-level [available] abilities.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Except the majority of those 100 quests AREN'T fetchquests....

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Warrior of light pick me flowers
Warrior of light pray return to waking sands
Warrior of light fix my earrings
Warrior of light pray return to waking sands
Warrior of light smell my horsebird
Warrior of light pick up my scales off the floor
Warrior of light pray return to waking sands
Warrior of light pray return to rising stones
Warrior of light hand out my food
Warrior of light pray return to rising stones
Warrior of light pray return to waking sands

It feels like you're running 2 billion errands, which made picking up the DRK questline (once you finally made it to Ishgard) so great :P

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Originally Posted by Zeonsilt

Running/teleporting back and forth for 1 line(5 words) of dialogue can hardly be considered "an MSQ"

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basically this^

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Originally Posted by Rokke

It feels like you're running 2 billion errands, which made picking up the DRK questline (once you finally made it to Ishgard) so great :P

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And then you basically consent to that rubbish regardless. But at least some dark oppressed part of your chara resents it.

I feel like they learned their lesson in SB. It's not that there aren't fetch quests, but personally, there was enough flavor in them to keep me interested and actually increase my immersion. That patch of ARR was horrible, all the more so given how often you still had to run to Vesper Bay instead of teleport to Mor Dhona.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And then you basically consent to that rubbish regardless. But at least some dark oppressed part of your chara resents it.

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I take comfort in knowing that at least there was a voice in the back of my characters head whispering "this is a load of barnacles" while I was sniffing some strangers' chocobo :')

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Originally Posted by Zeonsilt

Running/teleporting back and forth for 1 line(5 words) of dialogue can hardly be considered "an MSQ", and those quests aside, it's true that there's a lot of quests without any MSQ context, but you need to do them, because they are part of "MSQ".

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There isn't a single quest that has you running back and forth for 5 words of dialogue. If there's one thing this game doesn't do, it's brevity of the written word.

It's also NOT true that there's a lot of quests that you need to do that don't have any MSQ context. Not a single one of you can call out specific examples for more than the handful of quests that are true filler (for character development purposes - like Tataru and her attempts at learning a profession).

But by all means, prove me wrong. List them.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

It feels like you're running 2 billion errands, which made picking up the DRK questline (once you finally made it to Ishgard) so great :P

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90% of what you do in any RPG can be boiled down to some version of "fetch this, kill that, talk to me/other person at this spot."

The context within the bigger events, and the character developments that take place, are the things that are important, and while you're whining that you had to pick flowers, I'm excited to help Minfilia's adoptive mother that she thought was dead for 5 years return to her.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

The context within the bigger events, and the character developments that take place, are the things that are important, and while you're whining that you had to pick flowers, I'm excited to help Minfilia's adoptive mother that she thought was dead for 5 years return to her.

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HW and SB still have fluff, its just not back to back (to back to back to back to back). I'm still picking up/delivering crap (literally on the steppe!) but the pacing has gotten so much better that it doesn't feel like its dragging on.

Im glad you enjoyed the content I thought was boring as hell. I'm also glad that I can skip past it now :o

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Originally Posted by Berethos

90% of what you do in any RPG can be boiled down to some version of "fetch this, kill that, talk to me/other person at this spot."

The context within the bigger events, and the character developments that take place, are the things that are important, and while you're whining that you had to pick flowers, I'm excited to help Minfilia's adoptive mother that she thought was dead for 5 years return to her.

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But it all can be much better. And optional.

Look at story pacing of Legion for example, you can level up and visit almost all zones except the endgame one(and you just need to get 110 lvl and do unlocking quest, no prerequisite) without even doing any main quests, that are short, movie-like and engaging. With main story battles and scenarion be solo and feel more epic, then "go take 7 your friends that went fishing in nearby area and kill Susan" - It is a BAD writing, that breaks immersion.

SE should focus on shorter and more egaging MSQ, make it so it wasnt a slog - but went with BOOM and people would like to do it, not skip all stuff to unlock other stuff and get rewards, get rid of all little running around in it, just make all this plot sub-quests for people who want to know deeper story. Get rid of story-based gating, let new players visit kugane and isghard if they have expansion. Auto-unlock all new trials and dungeons, EX too. Maybe make attunements for raids.

Overall FFXIV story and world are awesome, no one arguing it, what most peopel don't like is how this story is showed into our face, its MMORPG, and it should be it, and story was always less important for MMORPG players then content. If i want to PVP - just let me PVP at 1lvl so i can get all 70 without even leaving city, only pvping.

The entire level 50-hw storyline desperately needs trimming. Badly. Everyone understands why it is the way it is, but I've had so many friends start playing and quit/let their sub lapse during that point. I understand that everyone always wants new content (and boy does this game have an issue with content depreciation), but I wouldn't mind a "spring cleaning" patch, where they fix things that need to be fixed in early game to make the game more attractive to new players.

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

The entire level 50-hw storyline desperately needs trimming

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Nothing wrong with the FF14 design, your friends are clearly a generation spoiled by instant noodle type of free mmo out there. Lack of in depth, died out after 3 months of launching. They will never be able to play Ff14 long

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Nothing wrong with the FF14 design, your friends are clearly a generation spoiled by instant noodle type of free mmo out there. Lack of in depth, died out after 3 months of launching. They will never be able to play Ff14 long

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Is there really nothing wrong with having over 100 quests to do before new players can have access to heavensward? Which contains 3 classes that they might have bought the game to play in the first place? Most of which are filler fetch quests? Can you really think of nothing wrong with that kind of game design?

For me that huge stretch between ARR Aand HW was such a slog. Maybe it’s just me, but the stuff after HW just doesn’t feel as long and tedious which shows it’s possible to have middle sections without making them soul crushing. It would be nice if they want back and trimmed things down a little, but at this point that may be more difficult for them todo than it’s worth.

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Originally Posted by Tempest222

For me that huge stretch between ARR Aand HW was such a slog. Maybe it’s just me, but the stuff after HW just doesn’t feel as long and tedious which shows it’s possible to have middle sections without making them soul crushing. It would be nice if they want back and trimmed things down a little, but at this point that may be more difficult for them todo than it’s worth.

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3.x and 2.x are like day and night. Post 3.0 they made the effort to make MSQ concise. Instead of 20 small quests that each give you a tiiiinyyy pinch of story you got 5 or so quests with big chunks of story. imo its infinitely better now @_@

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

Is there really nothing wrong with having over 100 quests to do before new players can have access to heavensward? Which contains 3 classes that they might have bought the game to play in the first place? Most of which are filler fetch quests? Can you really think of nothing wrong with that kind of game design?

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Which is absolutely why they were smart this time around and put SAM and RDM in Ul'dah, a place everyone should have access to at level 15 at the latest. :) At least they learn from their mistakes with new stuff, even if they don't retroactively fix things.
Personally, the ex an I were pushing for HW for DRK and AST so it was this odd mixture of despair at how long this was, and burning desire to get it done that saw us through.

Having just finished the 2.0-2.55 quests last night (finally!!) I do wish the stories were trimmed a bit, but the ending was worth the watch imo. It took so long, I had a few weeks of challenge log to level up and ended up at lol 56.5 at the beginning of HW, so the 4800exp also make a little sense, just frustrating to get through 10 million quests for little rewards on most completions. I am excited to get into HW now!

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

Is there really nothing wrong with having over 100 quests to do before new players can have access to heavensward? Which contains 3 classes that they might have bought the game to play in the first place? Most of which are filler fetch quests? Can you really think of nothing wrong with that kind of game design?

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Which is why they really should make that batch of content optional. If you're at the right level, you should be able to pick up with the next big arc (and even return to do stuff like the 2.x series at your own pace later should you choose).

If a player can't handle it, then they shouldn't be forced to do it, but the devs shouldn't have to remove content from the game for the sake of those that don't care about it in the first place.

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Originally Posted by DDkiki

Look at story pacing of Legion for example

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WoW has never been good at story pacing.

They drop new characters in with barely any setup, go for the big dramatic set pieces with little leadin, have hilariously truncated "dramatic" dialogue more often than not, and cap it off with some well made cinematics that don't even feature your character. The times where they've had better story pacing elements they've been criticized for having those "take too long" (and we're talking about a dialogue exchange between characters take more than 20 seconds).

I'd rather we avoid their pacing if we can help it.

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

Most of which are filler fetch quests?

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I keep seeing this claim, and yet after repeatedly asking someone to point out exactly where this majority of filler exists (we have access to the quest names, so it's not hard to point to them, or the ranges between one quest and another that are this supposed filler) I've yet to see anyone do anything other than make the claim that most of it is filler.

So I'll ask again - where is all this filler, and can you defend it as filler and not just important parts of the story that you didn't find interesting?

Taking some small phrase out of context and answer only it is your hobby?

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Originally Posted by DDkiki

Taking some small phrase out of context and answer only it is your hobby?

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Didn't need to quote the whole thing to address the issue that WoW has never been good at story pacing.

What they have been good at is creating a sense of gameplay pacing where you get moved from interesting gameplay moment to interesting gameplay moment at a pace that is quick enough to keep it interesting, but they've always had to sacrifice story pacing to achieve that.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Which is why they really should make that batch of content optional. If you're at the right level, you should be able to pick up with the next big arc (and even return to do stuff like the 2.x series at your own pace later should you choose).

If a player can't handle it, then they shouldn't be forced to do it, but the devs shouldn't have to remove content from the game for the sake of those that don't care about it in the first place.

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This wouldn't really fix the problem-the content that they may or may not care about is still keeping them from expansion gameplay content.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

I keep seeing this claim, and yet after repeatedly asking someone to point out exactly where this majority of filler exists (we have access to the quest names, so it's not hard to point to them, or the ranges between one quest and another that are this supposed filler) I've yet to see anyone do anything other than make the claim that most of it is filler.

So I'll ask again - where is all this filler, and can you defend it as filler and not just important parts of the story that you didn't find interesting?

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I found the vast majority of it to be incredibly, mind-numbingly boring, but I'll keep my personal opinions about this game's story out of this thread since it's not really relevant. Filler was probably the wrong word to use.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Didn't need to quote the whole thing to address the issue that WoW has never been good at story pacing.

What they have been good at is creating a sense of gameplay pacing where you get moved from interesting gameplay moment to interesting gameplay moment at a pace that is quick enough to keep it interesting, but they've always had to sacrifice story pacing to achieve that.

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Because all story is told by subquests. Almost all "important"FFXIV stories are not that important to be mandatory for everyone and should be optional. That was the main point of the post, and you just ignored it.

I do agree that the 2.xx quests were incredibly mind-numbing at times. I'm currently leveling up some alts for raiding purposes, and I don't really look forward to doing the majority of 2.xx again. There were some parts I enjoyed, like I really liked Levi, Ramuh, and Shiva, and I did like the build-up in 2.55 to 3.0, but I just remember feeling an impending impatience wanting to get to Heavensward because I had heard so many good things about it.

That could have contributed to my less-than-fond memories of 2.xx. I'll kindly reserve re-judging it again for when I reach there on my alts (although I am eager to do Heavensward and 3.2~3.3 again because they're my favorite MSQs). Guess they can't be any worse than the Company of Heroes quests leading up to Titan in 2.0....

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

Can you really think of nothing wrong with that kind of game design?

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Like I said, only the generation that spoiled by fast instant noodle type free mmorpg would want everything hand to them on a silver plate. They are like lotus consumes a game content as fast as possible then move to next one. They have no intention to build a community with us. Why would I willing to see changes to accompany these type of players? I don't. They can go back to those new Korean free mmo that comes every year. Isn't Bless Online coming out soon? Go for it, tigers

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Like I said, only the generation that spoiled by fast instant noodle type free mmorpg would want everything hand to them on a silver plate. They are like lotus consumes a game content as fast as possible then move to next one. They have no intention to build a community with us. Why would I willing to see changes to accompany these type of players? I don't. They can go back to those new Korean free mmo that comes every year. Isn't Bless Online coming out soon? Go for it, tigers

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You do realize that there's a middle ground between bloated stories and korean mmos? Also, your bias against younger people is strange and frankly unwarranted.

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

This wouldn't really fix the problem

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Which is why they really should make that batch of content optional.

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So what further step do they need to take beyond the one I suggested in the same response you quoted? If that batch of content is optional, there's no gate keeping them from moving on to expansion gameplay content, AND none of the content currently in the game gets removed, AND the developers don't have to waste time on what is apparently an already tight development schedule rewriting and redoing scenes and quests (because that's what it would take to remove more than a few of the current set of 2.x quests). It's nearly a Win-Win for everyone, except those few who believe the content should somehow both be optional and cut down in size (and if the issue is that it's blocking access to later stuff, then making it optional solves that issue and there's zero need to remove anything).

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

You do realize that there's a middle ground between bloated stories and korean mmos?

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The stories here aren't actually bloated (the Wheel of Time series...now that's where you can find examples of bloated storytelling) - that would suggest a bunch of useless stuff that doesn't go anywhere. Most of what happens in 2.x gets used for future developments...they just (as I've mentioned in an earlier post) used that patch series to set-up like 3-4 different major arcs that in some cases are still being resolved.

The Monetarist vs the Sultana and Ala Mhigan refugees stuff, for example, is a major foundation setup for events that just played out in 4.1.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

So what further step do they need to take beyond the one I suggested in the same response you quoted? If that batch of content is optional, there's no gate keeping them from moving on to expansion gameplay content, AND none of the content currently in the game gets removed, AND the developers don't have to waste time on what is apparently an already tight development schedule rewriting and redoing scenes and quests (because that's what it would take to remove more than a few of the current set of 2.x quests). It's nearly a Win-Win for everyone, except those few who believe the content should somehow both be optional and cut down in size (and if the issue is that it's blocking access to later stuff, then making it optional solves that issue and there's zero need to remove anything).

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It would fix it for people who don't care about the story, but not for the people who might be interested in where it goes, but find it incredibly bloated (all my friends I referred to in an earlier post). They would still ultimately be forced to do that story content before starting expansion content, since the story wouldn't make sense if you skip the entirety of 2.1-2.55, so in essence it wouldn't change anything for them.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

The stories here aren't actually bloated (the Wheel of Time series...now that's where you can find examples of bloated storytelling) - that would suggest a bunch of useless stuff that doesn't go anywhere. Most of what happens in 2.x gets used for future developments...they just (as I've mentioned in an earlier post) used that patch series to set-up like 3-4 different major arcs that in some cases are still being resolved.

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"Bloated" as I know it, refers to stories that could be told in a more concise manner, not necessarily stories that don't go anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

It would fix it for people who don't care about the story, but not for the people who might be interested in where it goes, but find it incredibly bloated (all my friends I referred to in an earlier post). They would still ultimately be forced to do that story content before starting expansion content, since the story wouldn't make sense if you skip the entirety of 2.1-2.55, so in essence it wouldn't change anything for them.

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Quite frankly, with the ability to watch how the story plays out in Let's Plays and other such media, I don't think that's a portion of the playerbase the developers need to spend time catering to.

You're basically asking for additional development time (that may need to be repeated as they add more story) so that these players can get through the story quicker when other solutions already exist to see the story at a faster pace and that don't involve removing content from the game.

Do you not see the issue with that?

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Quite frankly, with the ability to watch how the story plays out in Let's Plays and other such media, I don't think that's a portion of the playerbase the developers need to spend time catering to.

You're basically asking for additional development time (that may need to be repeated as they add more story) so that these players can get through the story quicker when other solutions already exist to see the story at a faster pace and that don't involve removing content from the game.

Do you not see the issue with that?

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Of course I do, and I mentioned that in an earlier post. However I maintain that I think it would be healthier for the game in the long run. Having it be optional would be a compromise I'd be willing to accept.

I am one of the very few who did not mind the 2.1-2.55 gap. Back in 2014 I took a year long break from the game and came back and had a whole bunch of story quests to do.

Some people want to just skip them because they are boring and mostly fetch quests, but a year from now people are probably going to complain about the HW quests after Nidhogg so the cycle will never end and thats why story jump potions were created, to give people that option.

Some of them are needed because of how they contribute to the story, but a lot of them could be cut. I think they should be thinned down. It's not the greatest experience.

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

Is there really nothing wrong with having over 100 quests to do before new players can have access to heavensward? Which contains 3 classes that they might have bought the game to play in the first place? Most of which are filler fetch quests? Can you really think of nothing wrong with that kind of game design?

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You mean 200 quests. There is no real difference between the 2.0 quests and the 2.1-2.55 quests. Few of them are filler quests. Everything in this game is gated by the MSQ - Ishgard is not special in that regard.

Having the HW jobs locked behind the 2.x MSQ is a design mistake, especially since those jobs start at level 30 anyway.

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Originally Posted by Zafire063

Some of them are needed because of how they contribute to the story, but a lot of them could be cut. I think they should be thinned down. It's not the greatest experience.

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Some of it could probably be cut, but not easily. It is all there for a reason.

Some of the stories told in the 2.1 - 2.55 patches could perhaps be told in a different way, but just cutting them would leave holes in the story structure.

Unfortunately rewriting/restructuring those quests would involve a LOT of work, so that will not happen.

It sometimes seems I am the only one who actually liked those quests and the stories told. I am actually looking forward to playing through that content once again on an alt I am currently leveling.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

It sometimes seems I am the only one who actually liked those quests and the stories told. I am actually looking forward to playing through that content once again on an alt I am currently leveling.

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You're not alone. I've played through ARR on 4 characters now and still enjoy the patch stories. From the big things like the set up for the Dragonsong War to the small moments like befriending the Doman children I like those quests and would hate to see them drastically altered/removed.

I can support allowing players to skip them and start HW if they really aren't interested since it seems like a lot of players are frustrated by these quests. I can't see SE spending resources to remake them in a more succinct way.

The fact that HW jobs were locked behind 2.1-2.55 is what really irritated me about the lvl 50 ARR MSQ, damn near quit just after I started because of them. Would be nice if they'd make the jobs accessible outside of Ishgard but that would break lore.

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Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

The fact that HW jobs were locked behind 2.1-2.55 is what really irritated me about the lvl 50 ARR MSQ, damn near quit just after I started because of them. Would be nice if they'd make the jobs accessible outside of Ishgard but that would break lore.

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This was/is my greatest complaint. I hate that I end up wasting 6 levels worth of XP just trying to get to the job I actually want to play.