Personal wishlist of DRK changes before/at patch 4.2

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Updated the OP....

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Your OP is still OP.

Updated opening post and more DRK complaints are still popping up on the tank forums...

These changes... are quite bad.

Edit: Just to add a reason for why: PLD having a 90s cooldown on Hallowed Ground? Need I say more?

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Originally Posted by WayofTime

These changes... are quite bad.

Edit: Just to add a reason for why: PLD having a 90s cooldown on Hallowed Ground? Need I say more?

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I'm pretty sure that's PVP, because according to my PLD hotbar, it's 420 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

I'm pretty sure that's PVP, because according to my PLD hotbar, it's 420 seconds.

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Look at their 15th point, they want it to be 90s. Looking at a wiki, Hallowed in PvP has it at 120s.

It's PVE since no one sees what PVP is like for DRK mostly because PVP for DRK is worse which requires a whole separate thread to see what is wrong with PVP for tank and healers, ESPECIALLY HEALERS

What are you talking about? I dislike the new PVP system, but currently it's play DRK and you win lol. Press 1-1-1 to deal damage and heal! Riveting. (Not counting team play, more 1v1 encounters in frontline/duel)

I main drk all the time so I agree we need buffs but some these suggestions are indeed outrageous as pointed out by some others in this post. We do need some buffs to defence and damage. Personally I would like a third combo option like we use to have with old delirium. Warrior has three. We are stuck spamming soul eater most of the time. With something like old delirium where we did damage and effected a targets into stat so that they did less magic damage was useful. It also looked nice lol. Either way I would like to see some of the old heavensward Dark Knight pose and abilities come back. Including fixing the healing effect of abyssal drain. Rather than returning a portion of damage dealt as health it should return 100 percent of damage dealt as health back just like in Heavensward

I agree with bringing back Shadow skin. Maybe a 15 percent damage reduction and give a decent duration. Or perhaps apply a similar effect to dark dance and allow it have a dark arts modifier

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Originally Posted by SummerScorcher

What are you talking about? I dislike the new PVP system, but currently it's play DRK and you win lol. Press 1-1-1 to deal damage and heal! Riveting. (Not counting team play, more 1v1 encounters in frontline/duel)

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I use gamepad, and PVP was seriously gutted for A LOT of classes to be more MOBA... I personally think PVE based PVP would be better(see Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventure for a slightly better understanding...) which is all about taking the fight to the evil empire that threatens the realm and maybe sabotage other factions that are also fighting the evil empire for even more chaos meaning they would need to revert Frontlines mode and 1v1/4v4/8v8 back to Heavensward PVP model... since Rival Wings does work better for the new/current PVP model... but again PVE ONLY

Here are my suggestions.

An additional CD that reduces damage by say...20%

An ability that has about 500 potency that's a dot that you could stack with salted earth.

An ability that reduces an enemies damage by say...10% for more then five seconds and has about 210 potency.

Some kind of skill that gives them a 3rd combo that has some kind of added effect for extra team utility. Call it delirium.

Some kind of stun they can use for added potency and for general usage that does about 120 potency.

I feel like the job is for some reason, missing aspects that could be filled by giving it extra utility and defensive skills as well as some extra DPS increases.

If only we knew what that looked like.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

Here are my suggestions.

An additional CD that reduces damage by say...20%

An ability that has about 500 potency that's a dot that you could stack with salted earth.

An ability that reduces an enemies damage by say...10% for more then five seconds and has about 210 potency.

Some kind of skill that gives them a 3rd combo that has some kind of added effect for extra team utility. Call it delirium.

Some kind of stun they can use for added potency and for general usage that does about 120 potency.

I feel like the job is for some reason, missing aspects that could be filled by giving it extra utility and defensive skills as well as some extra DPS increases.

If only we knew what that looked like.

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It sounds like that deleted class back in 3.x... I think it was called Dark Knight! LOL

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

It sounds like that deleted class back in 3.x... I think it was called Dark Knight! LOL

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WHAT? No way!

You mean to tell me SE removed core parts of a job and didn't do anything to replace them and thought things would go well?

That's crazy talk, no way something like that would ever happen.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

WHAT? No way!

You mean to tell me SE removed core parts of a job and didn't do anything to replace them and thought things would go well?

That's crazy talk, no way something like that would ever happen.

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Except it did and a lot of people who mained Dark Knight back in 3.x are still pissed about it... that reminds when are we getting the patch that allows us to delete our useless Dark Knight soul crystal?

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Except it did and a lot of people who mained Dark Knight back in 3.x are still pissed about it... that reminds when are we getting the patch that allows us to delete our useless Dark Knight soul crystal?

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sarcasm! lol

To be fair, it's not like they just picked on DRK.

It's just that DRK is the worst off. And after all that, it's still viable, so they don't need to adjust it.

Believe me, if I knew what the WAR community did to get such a hasty action for the SiO changes, I'd do that for DRK.

No, they didn't just pick on dark knight, it is an expansion and people expected classes to change, but personally I didn't expect dark knight core to be so stripped and not see the rest of its kit buffed. It just seems like SE has blinders for certain classes (see monk) when it comes to how they are played and why people play them. Warrior, for example, had some pretty drastic changes that made the class pretty bad at the start, it got major adjustments to bring it up to speed near immediately. Dark Knights have been asking for changes since the start, SE has ignored it since.

Honestly, the thing I see missing from dark knight is an unapologetic person with a platform and a fan base to shout our issues. Warrior has it, dark doesn't.

Ever since a certain video we see this idea repeated that Dark is "brain dead" easy. Where does this idea come from? Yes, Dark Knight only has 1 damage combo, but honestly I don't find switching between two combos every few turns to be that difficult. In my opinion this has to do with optimizing the classes. Warrior and Paladin have personal buff windows which organize their rotation, Dark Knight does not. How does this effect anything?

It matters when we look at raid buff alignment to optimize damage output.

Paladin: 60% of your life is buffed. Stick with that. Paladin doesn't worry about raid buffs because most of its time is spent buffed, you need to stick to that rotation and look to optimize your shield swipes.

Warrior: (ignoring the 20% and 5% buffs) 33.3% of your life is spent buffed. To hit those tank hero numbers you need to (1) align your buffs with raid buffs and not overcap gauge inbetween windows and (2) align your rotation going into those buffs. Luckily those line up naturally with your cooldown timers. If you die during the fight, this alignment will never line up again and you lose this benefit. This is where the difficulty comes from.

Dark Knight: (ignoring the 20% buff of dark side) 0% of your life is spent buffed. Because of this, your damage isn't organized into buff windows. However, to optimize the class you are still dependent on raid buffs. This means you need to self organize your resources to be able to hit dark arts on every attack (which you almost never will), carve and spit, and 2 bloodspillers in every trick window. You need to (1) align your resources to hit this once a minute and (2) align your GCD going into this buff (except you don't control when trick goes up). For this you gain a maximum of around 307 potency gained in this window (factoring in darkside).

Again Paladin doesn't really care about raid buff windows, it is bad to alter your rotation to hit these windows, just keep pressing buttons.

Warrior will actively try to hit this window gaining 377 potency during this window hitting 4 GCDs and 2 oGCDs (factors in all buffs except slashing). Dark Knight should also actively try to hit this window and to do 70 less potency while hitting 4 GCDs and 7 oGCDs (5 dark arts, carve and spit, and plunge and which this unlikely). What Dark Knight does have going for it is that it is flexible in being able to hit these windows unless you die immediately before. Both Dark Knight and Warrior can achieve this every other trick attack window.

What would help Dark Knight? Give Blood Weapon a 30 second cooldown and make the autoattack delay more meaningful (like 40% to 50% delay reduction) so that it lines up with raid buffs (which also removes some of the flexibility of the class).

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

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Personally I always thought DRK should be able to give health, mana, tp, and defensive buffs to the team.

In the past series you'd sacrifice health for power right? (I think?) so I kind of imagined at some points that DRK would be able to give up their own health, mp, tp, and buffs as a sacrifice to buff their team.

I'd imagine sacrificing black blood to buff the damage of a teammate at the expense of obviously your own DPS. And we have so much mp now that being able to share it with casters would be amazing.

Stuff like that. DRK was a lot about sacrificing things you had to benefit yourself and others.

Not sure how that'd ever translate into gameplay but it's how I've felt it should have gone.

You are right that Dark Knights usually give up their HP for damage. They have also been known for their debuffing. Our mana expense is not that great to give up since we cannot regen it from other places, but I am a huge fan of turning Sole Survivor into a resource drain for the party, kinda like the shield offered by paladin and warrior, but more of a compliment to them rather than giving dark a shield of its own.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

You are right that Dark Knights usually give up their HP for damage. They have also been known for their debuffing. Our mana expense is not that great to give up since we cannot regen it from other places, but I am a huge fan of turning Sole Survivor into a resource drain for the party, kinda like the shield offered by paladin and warrior, but more of a compliment to them rather than giving dark a shield of its own.

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A lot of "What if's" when it comes to Dark Knight.

From what I recall in HW, at least PLD had clear issues and solutions. Here solutions are all over the place.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

A lot of "What if's" when it comes to Dark Knight.

From what I recall in HW, at least PLD had clear issues and solutions. Here solutions are all over the place.

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Everyone has their opinion. It’s not the player based role here to fix it, it’s our role to tell SE that the job isn’t performing up to snuff. The rest is in SE’s corner.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Everyone has their opinion. It’s not the player based role here to fix it, it’s our role to tell SE that the job isn’t performing up to snuff. The rest is in SE’s corner.

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Isn't leaving everything to SE what got DRK to this state in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

Isn't leaving everything to SE what got DRK to this state in the first place?

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Yes, unfortunately it doesn’t give anyone other then them the ability to change it.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

They have also been known for their debuffing.

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I actually believe DRK SHOULD be the enfeeblement tank, but the enfeeblements need to be built into DRKs DPS so it has both utility and DPS, PLD works well as the shield tank but is kinda missing that heal shield on Clemency(would give Divine Veil more value/synergy with PLD toolkit), and WAR works as high damage, high HP, and high DoT tank(WARs like hurting things so it makes sense for DoTs to be in WARs toolkit because chances are the enemies are still hurting after getting hit by WAR).

PLD is on the right track, WAR needs more DoTs, and DRK REALLY needs utility in the form of enfeeblements in their DPS tools and more enmity generation spread out to other parts of their tool kit outside of Grit and Dark Arts+Power Slash combo.

Make dark arts + blackest night for party wide reduce cd on shadow wall give bit more dmg and maybe reduce cd on delirium. Or make drk in to dps role <3.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

I actually believe DRK SHOULD be the enfeeblement tank, but the enfeeblements need to be built into DRKs DPS so it has both utility and DPS, PLD works well as the shield tank but is kinda missing that heal shield on Clemency(would give Divine Veil more value/synergy with PLD toolkit), and WAR works as high damage, high HP, and high DoT tank(WARs like hurting things so it makes sense for DoTs to be in WARs toolkit because chances are the enemies are still hurting after getting hit by WAR).

PLD is on the right track, WAR needs more DoTs, and DRK REALLY needs utility in the form of enfeeblements in their DPS tools and more enmity generation spread out to other parts of their tool kit outside of Grit and Dark Arts+Power Slash combo.

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I agree And all the debuffs would need to apply to the dark knight in some way so we avoid people’s backlash to the server debuff issue.

why not just make dark arts a skill that u use every single GCD window and it gives every skill 2000 potency, and make souleater heal 50k HP every hit, even uncomboed, also make living dead turn you into a zombie to where u get healed by all dmg, but make it a stance that drains 1 MP every minute so that the only way u can die is by actual healing skills, but also make it reduce healing potency on you by 99%.

And then turn carve and spit into an ability that reduces all incoming dmg by 99% for 50 seconds and is on a 5 second CD and also does 30% of the bosses hp

and turn the blackest night into a skill thats basically an AOE hallowed ground but lasts 30 seconds

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Everyone has their opinion. It’s not the player based role here to fix it, it’s our role to tell SE that the job isn’t performing up to snuff. The rest is in SE’s corner.

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I wasn't insinuating that. I was just commenting on how in HW the issues and solutions were obvious and here it's all over the place.

It makes me worried because I don't know what SE will do in the future =/

They fixed PLD's problems in SB because the flaws were obvious but how will they fix DRK's problems when the issues are so varied and different from one another?

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

why not just make dark arts a skill that u use every single GCD window and it gives every skill 2000 potency, and make souleater heal 50k HP every hit, even uncomboed, also make living dead turn you into a zombie to where u get healed by all dmg, but make it a stance that drains 1 MP every minute so that the only way u can die is by actual healing skills, but also make it reduce healing potency on you by 99%.

And then turn carve and spit into an ability that reduces all incoming dmg by 99% for 50 seconds and is on a 5 second CD and also does 30% of the bosses hp

and turn the blackest night into a skill thats basically an AOE hallowed ground but lasts 30 seconds

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8 dark knights new meta.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

I wasn't insinuating that. I was just commenting on how in HW the issues and solutions were obvious and here it's all over the place.

It makes me worried because I don't know what SE will do in the future =/

They fixed PLD's problems in SB because the flaws were obvious but how will they fix DRK's problems when the issues are so varied and different from one another?

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Ha sorry, thought you were. I think the issues are pretty clear here too:
1) Dark Knight DPS is too low
2) Damage type Mitigation needs to go
3) Tank Utility is important

But I agree, the solution is more muddied as to what the dark community wants. Personally I play Dark Knight for the speed of its rotation, and I am attracted to the idea of debilitating my enemies and taking their life to bulster my own to tank.
Heres what I want:
1) More Blood Weapon \o/
2) More resources to press more buttons (generate more blood and mana through the dps combo)
3) Soul Eater HP drain in all stances
4) Dark Magic debuffs
5) Party resource generation
6) Adjust Bloodspiller so TBN is a gain in all circumstances (No one should question whether or not to mitigate as a tank)

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

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Mhmm...you're right.

In retrospect it seems like I was combining all the personal requests with the basic overall job changes. Like you listed 6 things but they all fall under dps, mitigation, and tank utility.

Desires/requests? Oh that is just simple. Scourge. Not your Scourge. Just the normal Scourge, or maybe make it our "Goring Blade" and combo off Syphon Strike. Just give us back Scourge. Not only do I miss its animation, I miss having a stable DoT that can be thrown on something.

Can we get the person/team that worked on Paladin, work on Dark Knight please? I'd like to see them transform this current limping on one leg class transform to a class of perfection like Paladin. I feel as though the person/team that worked on Paladin in 4.0 worked on 3.0 Warrior and I'd like some of his/their work displayed onto the edge class everyone is complaining about

They'll just gonna ignore us and buff warrior further anyway.

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Originally Posted by Truefaith87

Desires/requests? Oh that is just simple. Scourge. Not your Scourge. Just the normal Scourge, or maybe make it our "Goring Blade" and combo off Syphon Strike. Just give us back Scourge. Not only do I miss its animation, I miss having a stable DoT that can be thrown on something.

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3.x Scourge was basically a second Fracture... a pointless non-combo DoT and 3.x Scourge animation was boring and felt like it had no impact... at least 3.x Delirium felt like it had impact since it was a combo that inflicted INT down... so normal Scourge would be pointless to bring back without completely re-working it...

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

3.x Scourge was basically a second Fracture... a pointless non-combo DoT and 3.x Scourge animation was boring and felt like it had no impact... at least 3.x Delirium felt like it had impact since it was a combo that inflicted INT down... so normal Scourge would be pointless to bring back without completely re-working it...

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tell me you are jocking

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Originally Posted by shao32

tell me you are jocking

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Honestly I have to agree that scourge was quite boring.

I mean look at this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghwTKq0Ltjc

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Honestly I have to agree that scourge was quite boring.

I mean look at this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghwTKq0Ltjc

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the animation can be liked more or less, but the potency was like a fell cleave in total, so is not a pointless dot

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Originally Posted by Atreides

They'll just gonna ignore us and buff warrior further anyway.

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Every button is a 1200 potency FC.

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Originally Posted by shao32

the animation can be liked more or less, but the potency was like a fell cleave in total, so is not a pointless dot

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Warrior lost fracture, Monk lost Demolish, Machinist lost Lead Shot: and the list goes on about "fell cleave like high potency dots" that were lost across the board. There are other ways to make up for that than a dot. Personally I would prefer more burst abilities than a dot to maintain.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Warrior lost fracture, Monk lost Demolish, Machinist lost Lead Shot: and the list goes on about "fell cleave like high potency dots" that were lost across the board. There are other ways to make up for that than a dot. Personally I would prefer more burst abilities than a dot to maintain.

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i know, i dont say nothing against it, my post was about scourge was much more important that azure say, and if they bring it back (i dont think so and dont really care) even being the old scourge with the same potency it will be a big dps bost.