Housing Fans who have been upset: Cries Have Not Been Ignored Yet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KageTokage

I honestly think it might be worth screenshotting and reporting even Reddit posts trying to sell houses if the player in question is mentioning their name/server.

---

That the problem, he's not. And I'm seriously hoping someone contact him to buy only to get his in-game name and report him for it.

[Balmung][Selling][Shirogane][30/60 Large] 2 For Sale, 600 Million Each

Don't think there anything SE can do to figure out who this player is and ban him or take away the houses and not give a single bit of his gil back for the plots he bought just to flip them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rosythorns4

I was seeing those PF's day of, like... and the disappointing part of it, is it's a seller's market, but when you got people just trying to snatch it so they can force an added cost on top of the systems cost... you've kind of gone more than a bit far....

---

Agreed. These people are abusing the system. They know they can get away with it. Half of me believes SE not enforcing their ToS against these players who are doing it, but they should be and like I said up above, the worst punishment for these people would be to have the houses removed from their accounts and not a single bit of gil back for buying them.

As an ardent fan of not only the FF Series but also FFXIV, i can say i am disappointed in how housing was implemented. Even then i realized with prices as they were i would never have a home in FFXIV. Unfortunate for me i guess, i moved on, even with changes to the pricing algorithm, additions of sub- divisions, new wards, ect..., i knew housing was never going to be an option for me. However there are others who did the work for a shot, and the fact that the system is so broken, even now is not acceptable. I still love this game, but improvements must be made to this system.

With this in mind i offer an example of a much regarded housing system from another online game. (This is not meant to demean or chastise, only to offer possible ideas as to a problem too long existing.)

Game: Rift Online - Deminsions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIBWYA-zGFU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VBRLkQ0iR8

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archvile78

1 house per account would be a good solution too, yeah it would cause some rage but to hell with those who owns like 5 houses.

---

The problem is they would have to find a way to make the house account wide access, this game doesn't have a system in place for this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alacran

With this in mind i offer an example of a much regarded housing system from another online game. (This is not meant to demean or chastise, only to offer possible ideas as to a problem too long existing.)

Game: Rift Online - Deminsions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIBWYA-zGFU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VBRLkQ0iR8

---

Even better then that, look at ESO system - more house variety and interior design options, each house is account wide and fully accessible and changeable by all characters on the account, they are unlimited in number so you never run out of lots, and each account could own 1 of every style house with no issue if they so desired to spend the money.

They just needed to inflate the prices substantially.

There is more and more gil on the servers as patches go on, because of the lack of gil sinks.
Without meaning to offend, the ease of earning the gil to afford a house is far too easy compared to when the original wards opened.
A huge part of the issue is that a very large portion of the community CAN afford a house.
Pair that with the limited resources due to the system / server limitations - you have a complete bumrush of every person and their dog are able to buy one, trying to log on at the same time.

My overall point is that the demand is huge, and the cost of purchasing a house is scaled far too low for the supply - partly due to the amount of gil that is sitting in people's pockets these days.

Only solutions is to bump up the supply (not all that feasible based on the system), or lower the demand (or at least accessibility) by increasing prices..
Either those, or rebuilding the housing system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Hopefully they don't just add wards and actually fix the issue by prioritizing FCs and only allowing one house per account...This would go a long way to fixing the issue and also fixing their crappy servers

---

Prioritizing FCs would make personal owners who already got a house pretty upset. I don't think this is a solution. One house per account could diminish flippers, but not fix the entire issue. Honestly, if they can't add more wards to meet demand but can increase apartment numbers, this is the only feasable solution at the moment: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...TER-APARTMENTS

Edit: I see a lot of people saying the problem is "cheap" cost of housing, that it should be elevated. I have to stress this is not a solution at all, as only the super rich would be able to afford and they can also buy the entire ward. This doesn't fix the problem at all. Everyone needs equal chance to access basic features like housing. Not everyone is a crafter and, thinking about it, this could also motivate people to buy gil even more. We need less RMT, not the other way around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altena

There is more and more gil on the servers as patches go on, because of the lack of gil sinks.

Only solutions is to bump up the supply (not all that feasible based on the system), or lower the demand (or at least accessibility) by increasing prices..
Either those, or rebuilding the housing system.

---

Your idea is the exact opposite of almost every other successful MMO housing system.

Maybe on some servers gill is abundant, but on others gill is a struggle because of low populations and everyone just crafting for themselves instead of buying other people crafted stuff. You think its bad now with people pitching a fit, imagine if only a few people could ever have the hope of owning a house.

Rebuilding housing system from ground up so EVERYONE could have a house if they chose to buy one at a reasonable price is the best option if simply adding more wards isn't possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Perogwin

Your idea is the exact opposite of almost every other successful MMO housing system.

Maybe on some servers gill is abundant, but on others gill is a struggle because of low populations and everyone just crafting for themselves instead of buying other people crafted stuff. You think its bad now with people pitching a fit, imagine if only a few people could ever have the hope of owning a house.


Rebuilding housing system from ground up so EVERYONE could have a house if they chose to buy one at a reasonable price is the best option if simply adding more wards isn't possible.

---

You obviously barely even read my post.
I already said that the only alternative to hiking up the price is to rebuild the system...

Nor do you seem to understand a thing about economics 101.
Just because you and your friends don't have an abundance of gil, does not mean that gil is not easily accessible.
The very fact that the wards were sold in minutes on medium-pop servers just shows there is an abundance of gil floating around.
I am on a medium pop server and hold a personal sum of around 60-80 mil, and I am considered on the lower end of "rich".
I have 4 friends that have an excess of 500+ mil on their personal characters, one being in the billions.

Ask anyone that's been playing since the start of 2.0... 100 mil meant a lot more back then. This is mostly due to the lack of gil sinks in the game.

You need to understand how supply / demand works.
If there is higher demand than there is supply, it becomes more valuable.
If the cost of houses reflected true supply/demand curves, I can almost assure you that a Mansion would be sitting somewhere in the hundreds of mil (rather than the chump-change max of 50 that they are now).

Unless the system was overhauled to allow for near-infinite supply or at least substantially increase the number of available houses (such as turning toward instanced housing options) then they will always sell out in minutes.
Alternatively the other option is to reduce demand/accessibility by increasing market cost.

If the supply cannot match the demand, then the market value for the item in question is too cheap, and there will be a large number of people that are standing there with no house with the gil in their pockets.
That is this very case here..

So skyrocket the prices 10-fold to allow market value to reflect the supply & demand. That was the intention with the devaluation of houses over time (if they aren't sold).
They are meant to be overpriced, and devalued until someone is willing to pay for them. It was never intended to be the Hunger Games the moment the servers came up.

If they don't solve the supply problems, then they need to skyrocket the prices to the point that houses aren't being sold immediately and that each plot has a chance to devalue.

Finally my main point here..

Hiking up the price of each plot does not solve the supply.. It solves the demand.
It also allows people who really really really want a certain house, to get one without the element of RNG / praying to the server gods that it lets you online in the first wave of 800-odd people.
It removes the whole bum-rush to the wards the moment the servers come up, because most people can't afford them.
It does not remove the exclusivity of owning a house, because only the rich will be able to afford them.

Please understand supply/demand.. And actually read my post before trying to reply to it.

haters gonna hate. Haters gonna hate.

When Yoshi P first announced housing and said he would try not to do what older MMOs did, we gave him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he knew what he was doing. Now we are here. I think it's obvious to people who want houses the system is a bomb. Yoshi P needs to suck it up, and copy what other MMOs have proven to work better than this complete mess.

Here's my solution to this housing nonsense:

ASSUMING SE won’t/can’t institute separate housing wards for FCs vs individuals, or instanced housing, which seems to be the easiest method that most people agree on:

1. Implement a "Rent" system utilizing FC company credits that are auto-deducted from the FC every week/month.

2. “Rent” amount is based on plot size, though should be reasonably high enough that a 1-person FC cannot maintain enough company credits to sit on a mansion/large plot.

3. Individuals acquiring personal housing may only purchase “small” plot sizes. Upkeep of personal houses will utilize the “Garden Chocobo” system.*

4. When there are insufficient FC credits to pay "Rent", the house is placed in “Foreclosure Status” and the owner has 72 hours to clear their FC chest and remove all housing items.

5. After 72 hours, the house will be auto-demolished, the plot will be available for purchase, and the owner is on a 30-day cool-down from purchasing another plot.

6. If owner did not gather items from house prior to demolition, items can be recovered by the Resident Caretaker NPC.

7. If a player enters the Foreclosure window OR surrenders the property via Relinquishment, the plot will appear in red text in the Residential Ward menu with a timer displaying when the plot will become available. (Plot is not purchasable from 72 hours at time of Foreclosure or Relinquishment.)

*The Garden Chocobo system requires owners of personal houses to purchase a “Garden Chocobo” from the Resident Caretaker and maintaining them on the property. When placed, Garden Chocobos will roam your personal housing plot, keeping your grass from taking over the property, while chasing off evil spirits (and those nosey neighbors!) While the Garden Chocobo remains on the property, personal houses are not in danger of being foreclosed. By interacting with your Garden Chocobo, you can improve their mood, extending the duration they will remain on your property. Garden Chocobos will require food and care, and will run away if neglected for too long. Players will receive a notification when the Garden Chocobo runs away, and a timer will begin in the Timers menu (72 hours). You can check the Garden Chocobo's status from the Housing menu. Authorized tenants of personal houses may also interact and feed the Garden Chocobo, in addition to purchasing a new one if yours ran away.

The above system would alleviate several issues:

-People would make more reasonable decisions when spending gil on a house they would not be able to maintain through FC credits.

-1-person FCs will not be able to maintain ANY size property longer they have accumulated FC credits. This encourages activity on the players part to maintain a plot or to increase the FC membership with active members to maintain the plot so they don't waste millions of gil.

-Players would not be able to guarantee sale of a plot to another player, as all players would have access to the Residential Ward menu and can see when plots will become available. This gives *most* people a fair shot at getting a limited resource, and places too much risk on potential buyers that are willing to spend 900mil on a 45mil plot, essentially screwing over the ‘poor’ people.

I would institute all the above IN ADDITION TO adding more wards. If SE can’t institute enough housing to meet the player demand, they need a more aggressive system than just logging in once every 30 days to maintain a property.

Also, inb4 PS4 limitations.

Hello, here are some ideas for the dev team! Hope they see it and make improvements.

- Increase the large & medium houses; 2/3 extra for large/medium per division. Re-work the layout to make them fit.

- Make Apartments more appealing, examples being the Inn rooms in each city, the Squadron room and 1st floor of a small. Add an instanced yard.

- Add 2 additional subdivisions to each ward, flipped in opposite directions.

- Make houses instanced; everyone gets a house. Downside is, you lose the neighborhood feel.

- Make 1 house per server per account. You don't actually need more than one character unless it's for roleplay.

- Separate FC and personal wards; I have no idea how they would do this.

- Add personal workshops/airships to private houses/apartments.

- Add a gold sink like rent/tax to the land/game; not individuals. People will lose interest in extra houses if they have to pay the land on a regular basis.

Stop posting. Those ideas is horrid and makes an already PUNISHING system something that would make me outright unsub.

Just add tons off instanced housing and gardens. Fixt.

Edit: JFC. Yeah, cause that's what I want. Pay to log in to pay TAXES on my e-house.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WanderingStar

Stop posting. Those ideas is horrid and makes an already PUNISHING system something that would make me outright unsub.

Just add tons off instanced housing and gardens. Fixt.

Edit: JFC. Yeah, cause that's what I want. Pay to log in to pay TAXES on my e-house.

---

Oh, you're ok with accumulating virtual currency, purchasing virtual property, building a virtual house, virtual walls, placing virtual furniture, virtual gardens, virtual fountains, virtual flooring, virtual retainers, building a virtual workshop to spend more virtual money to build virtual airships to spend virtual FC currency to send on missions to get virtual items, but virtual taxes is where you draw the line.

Got it.

We have been heard!!!
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-in-Patch-4.1

I pay a sub each month. I am sad for the people who did not get a house but punishing people because they got one is not fair either.

I also feel they should limit it to 1 house per account and also instantly ban anybody who uses the housing situation to sell plots either in game for stupid amounts.

The housing is a mess but as a long term player i can not and wont pay rent on a house i paid for because some people missed out.

It is bad it does need fixing and it should have been instanced just don't punish the people who got a house genuinely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luluna

I pay a sub each month. I am sad for the people who did not get a house but punishing people because they got one is not fair either.

I also feel they should limit it to 1 house per account and also instantly ban anybody who uses the housing situation to sell plots either in game for stupid amounts.

The housing is a mess but as a long term player i can not and wont pay rent on a house i paid for because some people missed out.

It is bad it does need fixing and it should have been instanced just don't punish the people who got a house genuinely.

---

If you play the game regularly, even casually, the aforementioned system would be negligible for upkeep of a home, and is designed to put finite resources back into the game so people that pay a sub but don't play, don't just sit on a plot for 6 months somebody else could have been enjoying it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clint_Beastwood

If you play the game regularly, even casually, the aforementioned system would be negligible for upkeep of a home, and is designed to put finite resources back into the game so people that pay a sub but don't play, don't just sit on a plot for 6 months somebody else could have been enjoying it.

---

Better to rebuild housing from the ground up at this point. Just make instanced housing and let anyone who wants a house be able to get one at a reasonable price....problem solved! The houses have no bearing on actual game play and are just for ascetics/roleplay, so why not let everyone have access. Many other MMO do it this way and it works great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Perogwin

Better to rebuild housing from the ground up at this point. Just make instanced housing and let anyone who wants a house be able to get one at a reasonable price....problem solved! The houses have no bearing on actual game play and are just for ascetics/roleplay, so why not let everyone have access. Many other MMO do it this way and it works great.

---

In what way would instanced housing make it easier for everyone who wants a house to get one?
If there are problems adding enough additional wards, then surely there would also be problems adding enough housing instances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

In what way would instanced housing make it easier for everyone who wants a house to get one?
If there are problems adding enough additional wards, then surely there would also be problems adding enough housing instances.

---

They said at one point that adding new apartments can be done at any time because of the way it was implemented. Instanced housing would utilize a similar system and thus avoid many of the problems existing right now with the present system. For one, there will be not competition for an actual physical plot, removing that awful element. Then, it's a lot easier to add, as it's just the one housing instance vs. an entire ward. Active strain on the servers would be a lot lesser at any given time as well, I imagine, as you won't have to maintain an entire ward just for the one player who went there to check the MB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aveline_V

We have been heard!!!
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-in-Patch-4.1

---

So new wards in all four areas for 4.2 and a new method to sell them... Fearful it's that sketchy lottery system JP players are suddenly in love with, but rolling houses for sale out in waves verses when the patch opens would be fair.

Also, apparently the relocation system is straight up glitching like crazy. Most players wanting to relocate couldn't because the system borked up all on it's own. Also, I'd be boiling hot if my FC rooms poofed away after relocation since that's apparently a thing that's happened to FCs that could move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altena

I already said that the only alternative to hiking up the price is to rebuild the system...

Please understand supply/demand

---

Being in my late 40s I promise you I understand supply and demand, the problem I had with your post was the fact that you made it sound (even if unintentionally) that gil was free flowing on all servers and your idea was a better solution then simply retooling the whole thing. My misunderstand could simply be the fact that it is 4:30 am and a little tired and I am impatiently waiting for the servers to come up.

The fact Yoshi has now responded that they will increase the supply with more wards will probably solve the problem on some medium and most low pop servers like mine but won't help a great deal on the high pop ones

If it doesn't solve the issue I simply say remake the entire system from the ground up and make everyone happy, it seems that we agree on that point at least so we will leave it at that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

In what way would instanced housing make it easier for everyone who wants a house to get one?
If there are problems adding enough additional wards, then surely there would also be problems adding enough housing instances.

---

As the person below you said, instance housing is a completely different animal then what they have now. Each housing area would only need to have one ward. Clicking on a house door would open an interface like they have when entering the apartments or fc rooms and then you would just go to "your" instance of the house. This is far less taxing on the servers then you think. Many MMO use this version of housing with great success, Elder Scrolls Online is a wonderful example of this system. I was actually surprised when FFXIV went a different way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Perogwin

Better to rebuild housing from the ground up at this point. Just make instanced housing and let anyone who wants a house be able to get one at a reasonable price....problem solved! The houses have no bearing on actual game play and are just for ascetics/roleplay, so why not let everyone have access. Many other MMO do it this way and it works great.

---

That's not true, workshops and airships are content gated behind owning a house, which isn't just for aesthetics.

And for the record, in SWTOR, I have 4 houses on my own instanced planets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clint_Beastwood

That's not true, workshops and airships are content gated behind owning a house, which isn't just for aesthetics.

---

Valid point, I am sure they could accommodate that in a rebuild somehow. My comments focus mainly on personal housing which is really all I care about. Other games have separate types of instanced housing for both personal and guild (FC), I am sure that could be used here as well. In a perfect world personal workshops/airships would be available for the individual as well (though only limited to a single one as opposed to a fleet of 4), but that is a different battle I am NOT interested in fighting right now.

Fair enough. I'm just glad they're addressing it, and sooner rather than later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

In what way would instanced housing make it easier for everyone who wants a house to get one?
If there are problems adding enough additional wards, then surely there would also be problems adding enough housing instances.

---

An instanced housing system theoretically allows for unlimited houses. If well designed instanced housing would allow SE to dynamically add or remove system resources to handle the load as people go to their house. You might start off a server capable of handling 100 (easy random number) instances. When 101 comes a second server is automatically added, at 201 another, etc. As people leave housing player would be assigned to the first open slot. As the system fragment instances could be consolidated returning unneeded servers to an available pool. Pretty straight forward systems design and management.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vaer

Hopefully they say something. Last time they responded to forum drama all they said was "You all need to calm down." :rolleyes:

---

...Let's be honest, it's a game. It's usually never really TRULY worth rage or drama. I get what he was doing by saying that, it was more of a "Calm your shit first, then, when you're done with your tantrum, I will go and fix it." If the community acts like a swarm of raging children over something that can be easily fixed and are threatening to unsub because they don't have immediate satisfaction over something that initially isn't in Yoshi's control, I don't blame Yoshi for taking the parent route. His job is hecka stressful! He loves it, he loves us, we need to turn and give him the understanding and patience he deserves.

What about opening up Ishgard for housing and using row housing. You can fit way more homes in the same area if there were row houses or town homes, the exception is there wouldn't be a front yard and there would need to be multiple floors but there could be almost 10x more homes available in the same amount of space.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jieddo

What about opening up Ishgard for housing and using row housing. You can fit way more homes in the same area if there were row houses or town homes, the exception is there wouldn't be a front yard and there would need to be multiple floors but there could be almost 10x more homes available in the same amount of space.

---

people hate apartments, they are going to hate this just as much if not more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiraOcelot

...Let's be honest, it's a game. It's usually never really TRULY worth rage or drama. I get what he was doing by saying that, it was more of a "Calm your shit first, then, when you're done with your tantrum, I will go and fix it." If the community acts like a swarm of raging children over something that can be easily fixed and are threatening to unsub because they don't have immediate satisfaction over something that initially isn't in Yoshi's control, I don't blame Yoshi for taking the parent route. His job is hecka stressful! He loves it, he loves us, we need to turn and give him the understanding and patience he deserves.

---

I agree the drama isn't TRULY worth it.

However, this is the fourth time they have added wards and every other time it was the exact same thing. At some point people are going to be mad. Don't blame them at all. Probably got amplified due to them mentioning record profits/we just got new servers and they barely added any more than they usually do. (Last couple times it was 4 wards in each of the 3 old areas plus apartments, still 12 wards in total.) This time it was just 12 wards plus apartments in shiro and 0 in the old 3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiraOcelot

...Let's be honest, it's a game. It's usually never really TRULY worth rage or drama. I get what he was doing by saying that, it was more of a "Calm your shit first, then, when you're done with your tantrum, I will go and fix it." If the community acts like a swarm of raging children over something that can be easily fixed and are threatening to unsub because they don't have immediate satisfaction over something that initially isn't in Yoshi's control, I don't blame Yoshi for taking the parent route. His job is hecka stressful! He loves it, he loves us, we need to turn and give him the understanding and patience he deserves.

---

I wish people would stop treating Yoshi like some kindly uncle they know. He's a buisinessman, nothing else. He will do the things that he thinks will earn his company the most money possible, with the least amounts of fuss and expenses. He doesn't "love" the playerbase, he sees us as customers to be milked for money, and will try to see to it that enough of us are satisfied so that his company can continue to make a profit. Also, there's alot of people with equally stressful jobs all over the planet, should we also start giving them understanding and patience when they totaly messed up? Cause that's what SE did this time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiraOcelot

...Let's be honest, it's a game. It's usually never really TRULY worth rage or drama. I get what he was doing by saying that, it was more of a "Calm your shit first, then, when you're done with your tantrum, I will go and fix it." If the community acts like a swarm of raging children over something that can be easily fixed and are threatening to unsub because they don't have immediate satisfaction over something that initially isn't in Yoshi's control, I don't blame Yoshi for taking the parent route. His job is hecka stressful! He loves it, he loves us, we need to turn and give him the understanding and patience he deserves.

---

Here the thing.
This has been going on for four years now. If you go to the housing forum, you'll see (before patch release) that people have been talking about housing in a civil manner for a long time now. Each time they've released a patch with housing, it been chaos. They wait for the shit storm to pass and think, "It'll be over in a few days." and leave us in silence and never acknowledge the problem and fix it before the next housing patch. Four years of this is enough. I'm tired of it, and so are a lot of other people. We all pay for our subs, we all deserve to play the content we most desire. Be it raiding to housing. Content like housing, should never be limited to it player base. If you have the gil, you should be able to have a house if you want one.

It just a game - yep, you're right. But please stop hiding behind that excuse. It a game that we all pay for. For some of us, housing is our end game and it content that we'd like to enjoy without stress. Some of us don't raid or raid hardcore (me).

No, honestly, I hope our voices keep pushing for a demand to fix, in a civil way of course. I hope it continues and doesn't die down. Yoshi a good man, but as I said, enough is enough with the horrible housing system. I'm not saying that people should act out and keep raging, but maybe if a handful of players unsub they'll start to consider a real fix to the problem.

There only so much patience one can have. New housing was a selling point for Stormblood and a lot of people feel they've been lied to. While yes, us veteran players knew how housing was going to go, a lot of new players didn't and the disappointment from both old and new players has hit it limit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cylla

Agreed. These people are abusing the system. They know they can get away with it. Half of me believes SE not enforcing their ToS against these players who are doing it, but they should be and like I said up above, the worst punishment for these people would be to have the houses removed from their accounts and not a single bit of gil back for buying them.

---

To be fair, some of the ToS needs a bit more refined instead of tacking on more things, I mean... you can be reported for inhibiting another person's playstyle... but the housing portion just seems like an intent to work the system and it's kind of disgusting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SendohJin

people hate apartments, they are going to hate this just as much if not more.

---

I'm not so sure. The typical row house I think of has a small, fenced front yard/garden with a larger backyard. Not a whole lot different than the current small house just laid out differently. This could also be scaled as to house size like you see in many older cities. I still prefer a fully instanced option but the row house idea has merit.