Who else HATES the new PVP system? change it yoshida, pls.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Why is AST the only one that can rescue?

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Rescue should be removed, useless af.


i thought this thread was on pvp forums lol, i was wondering why there were so many new names that replied.

Love the new system. Don't want to go back to the old system.

My only two gripes - WHM is the only healer with an AOE heal (Assize). My other gripe comes from how much damage tanks and healers do. If you are a DPS and you find yourself in a 1x1 with a tank or healer at full health you can bet you're going to lose.

The new system is a step in the right direction and a solid foundation to continue to build on. Currently, they just need to finish off some balancing.

The old system was a giant mess, bloated, and even harder to balance and improve upon.

I would give SE time to adjust it.

I love the new system. The only thing I hate is the lack of chat in Feast/Fold.

I really enjoy the new PvP system. I was healing in Frontlines last night and felt very powerful. The limited action bar was not a hindrance, since it freed me to focus less on a tangle of buttons and more on what was going on around me. Better to be fighting other players than fighting a massive number of buttons. It doesn't take a hundred buttons to give depth to battle if the buttons we do have are meaningful, which they are. I was constantly aware of my cooldowns and mana, much more than I was in PvP previously. I think if folk give a chance to the new system instead of reacting to it for being different, most will find it is much, much improved.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Well, greatly reducind the required knowledge, skill and overall attention one has to have to play PvP of course will increase the number of sheeps joining it.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

1.) Stop starting to insult people that disagree with you.

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No response for you until you figure out what a logical thought progression is.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

1.) Stop starting to insult people that disagree with you.

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Yet you called us Sheep over the system?

Something about black kettles and pots here I think...

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Originally Posted by Twinsoul

Better to be fighting other players than fighting a massive number of buttons.

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So button bloat was never the real issue it was more of muscle memory issue that can be fixed just by playing over and over and over again. We still have same button bloat in PvE so why is it ok there and not in PvP?

I love the changes to PVP.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Love the new system. Don't want to go back to the old system.

My only two gripes - WHM is the only healer with an AOE heal (Assize). My other gripe comes from how much damage tanks and healers do. If you are a DPS and you find yourself in a 1x1 with a tank or healer at full health you can bet you're going to lose.

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Because balance is not done through 1v1? Winning is a team effort lol.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Love the new system. Don't want to go back to the old system.

My only two gripes - WHM is the only healer with an AOE heal (Assize). My other gripe comes from how much damage tanks and healers do. If you are a DPS and you find yourself in a 1x1 with a tank or healer at full health you can bet you're going to lose.

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It's not what you play, it's how well you play it.

This was done in the old system, BTW.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

It's not what you play, it's how well you play it.

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Kind of a bad example, since he was fleeing for most of the fight and reduce the MCH to 50% hp in short time when he finally decided to attack (at low HP himself).

Still, not sure I agree that healers are good damage dealers. They suck pretty hard. Any half decent DPS will have a WHM in the ground before they can blink. It's why I rather dislike playing the class in PvP.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

It's not what you play, it's how well you play it.

This was done in the old system, BTW.

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So, the video was amusing and I enjoyed watching.

However (no disrespect to you because I know you are a good PVPer), but this video does nothing to disprove my comment. You took the PLD down to 31% health remaining before he even decided to do anything. Literally no defensive moves, no heals, no attacks on you. So, it was a pretty skewed example.

I cannot complain as this is exactly what i asked for. A skill based battle as opposed to a "Which job's on top right now" beat-down. I recall people kicking DRK out for lackluster everything in feast, followed by people dropping from a match because certain jobs were imbalanced to play against. So for me this is refreshing. I will say that tank is very opportunistic these days in large battles as opposed to playing the way it's role name suggests, but it's progress.

https://memecreator.org/static/images/memes/4630976.jpg

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Originally Posted by Pingosteel

New PvP feels like a half-baked moba.
Very few skill, but slow gameplay...
Balance between jobs is terrible. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't tested before the release.
Also, I main AST in both PvE and PvP since the very beginning of HW (even when AST had 15 sec cards...) and now, I've lost everything in PvP...
No more shields, no more Hot, no more sect, no more aoe heal, no royal road, no redraw, no spread, no celestial opposition, etc.
You only have 4 cards with 1 useless and 1 to weak.
Even old PvP skills have been deleted. Now you must select so much less skills (and pvp rank is useless too), 5/6 usefull skills for healers and only select 2.... ( sprint is not a base skill... great...)
Get reduced to 9+2 skills is really bad...
Before, healing in PvP was very intense but now it's boring.

And of course SE found a way to promote PvP by adding exp to it, so even if you don't really like it, you will do it for exp and consequently they can say: "no prob with PvP, everybody do it" .

And still no change to the toxic "only 100 players get the reward for each Datacenter and the only thing to do is spamming PvP all day" (cause let's face it top 100 weren't amazing players but people with A LOT of matches since winning rate was always around 60%)
Just put a system where people are rewarded for their rank (bronze,silver, gold,...) so once you hit the rank you get the prize. It reduce player toxicity by a lot.

I don't say that old PvP was really good (it was 5 or 6 /10 ) but at least it felt like a mmorpg pvp. Now, if i want to PvP, i can go on any MOBA for a better experience.

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This sums up pretty much exactly how I feel. AST got gutted, it was what I mained in PVP, and with so few abilities left I'll just go play a MOBA which has a lot faster twitch/reactionary gameplay to allow for more clutch plays outside of what the GCD allows here.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Kind of a bad example, since he was fleeing for most of the fight and reduce the MCH to 50% hp in short time when he finally decided to attack (at low HP himself).

Still, not sure I agree that healers are good damage dealers. They suck pretty hard. Any half decent DPS will have a WHM in the ground before they can blink. It's why I rather dislike playing the class in PvP.

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Thing is, he had every advantage in the situation if he didn't run. Between stuns and self heals (far more than I'd have at my disposal) and. . . well, being a tank, in a situation of equally skilled players, the PLD had far more survivability in the situation. I however have been put in a position where I had to fend off a tank enough times that I understood taking a heavy offensive was in fact, my best defense in the moment.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Are you saying all those points are not true?

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Yes. Try playing a fighting game where there is a total of four buttons + movement and tell me that reduction of buttons to press removes skill. You can spam buttons to regularly defeat an easy AI or a newbie player. A pro player will get perfect after perfect on you though, finishing you off in less than a minute.

Knowing the tools at opponents disposal, knowing when to use your restricted skills. Actually using the right skills for the right situation. All of that is required to maximize the effect of your skills. A better player will be better. A better team will always win with the worse team. There is far less randomness, far less slipped fingers, far less unresponsive, critical skills. As a result, SKILL and KNOWLEDGE is what matters MORE, not LESS. On the other hand, you can STILL have some successes without either.

I dislike the new system because my sch feels like it got gutted. I don't like the way the moves and the fairy system is.


Other than my sch complaints, it's not overly bad. Honestly. They have good ideas. I just liked the old ways with the normal skills lol. But that's me.

I still play with friends, even though I suck.

I can't say I've had any fun in the new system, maybe it's because the quality of the matches is so low or it always shatter which is a terrible game mode, but matches for me are mostly about getting the the exp or stones at the end now, I have little to no interest in the match itself.

I love it overall. I do wish not so many abilities got cut, but you had such an unbalanced mess with the previous iteration of PVP -- I mean machinist had knockback, stun, silence, bind (IIRC) -- no other class had all of those CC abilities on top of a crazy burst. Although I think this version is still very basic and that they may add to it, it is much, much fairer which is absolutely needed in FFXIV PVP.

I would have apreciated those changes if they were correctly done. I would have liked customization via traits and pvp actions if it wasn't an illusion of choice, and at least half of them are a joke. I would have liked skills reduction if it was not boring as hell for most jobs. 0.14 secs reduction of GCD isn't compensating the loss of all CD we had. But I guess bots are thankful, it's easier for them to act as players during peak hours now

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

A skill based battle as opposed to a "Which job's on top right now" beat-down. I recall people kicking DRK out for lackluster everything in feast, followed by people dropping from a match because certain jobs were imbalanced to play against.

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And how it is now? WAR is no longer viable, I don't even need to talk about AST. For melee, you just take the one with the best burst since they are basically "hit 1 button then pop dmg oGCD", and range, RDM is almost suicide and is only good at Ks and BLM still suffer LoS pb. There are much more unbalanced class comparing to how it was. It wasn't perfectly balanced in HW (show me a game where it is, except pong) but most class were more or less viable in feast leaving aside DRK. Now you have 1 or 2 class per role that are just really bad in 4v4.

In larger modes like 8v8 or frontlines, the loss of survivability made melee at the mercy of range even more than before. It feels completely unrewarding to play melee there because if you try to do something else than poking, you're dead. And I have yet to see the promised strategic battles that this system was supposed to bring:
"CRYSTAL!! <se.1> CRYSTAL!! <se.1> CRYSTAL!! <se.1> "
"no, kill mael, they are 100 pt from win"
"CRYSTAL!! <se.1> CRYSTAL!! <se.1> CRYSTAL!! <se.1> "
"Sandwich adders, go there by south"
"CRYSTAL!! <se.1> CRYSTAL!! <se.1> CRYSTAL!! <se.1> "

I like it way more than the old version. Way, wayyy more. Actually enough to keep playing FFXIV pvp now! Haha!

There is one thing though; balance. The balance isn't really good right now. Playing ranged or healer classes is OP. This should be fixed at some point I guess. But it is sooooo much better already compared to the previous pvp! I'm also not the biggest fan of RNG ice spawns that control the battle more than the players do, but that's going into detail on one of the 'pvp-modes'. No, first, the balance should be figured out more better, as the pvp really can be fun to play now, it's just a little unbalanced. Should expect that after such a huge change though, I guess, so let's give it a little more time. :)

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Originally Posted by eschaton

The balance isn't really good right now. Playing ranged or healer classes is OP.

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*sigh* Yes please, nerf healers even more, It's so much fun to watch everyone dying in 4v4 without being able to do anything.

The big problem with balance in FF, is that they have to choose between balancing for a 4v4 ranked mode or large modes such frontlines or 8v8. But to have both modes balanced correctly, they would need to separate pvp actions in both feast and frontlines. But I wouldn't call the current situation "just a little unbalanced": AST/WAR/RDM/ most melee are close to be unplayable, especially in 4v4. Before, it was just DRK.

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Originally Posted by Shut

Before, it was just DRK.

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The irony is that DRK is now well-rounded, everyone (bar pally) is lopsided in one way or another. I do miss that 4.0 vanilla that made range dps have existential crisis when they saw a DRK.

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Originally Posted by eschaton

There is one thing though; balance. The balance isn't really good right now. Playing ranged or healer classes is OP.

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Lol? Did you even heal? And if you ever did you probably had not so good enemy damage dealers. Because healing is a lot harder now compared to before.

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Originally Posted by Shut

*sigh* Yes please, nerf healers even more, It's so much fun to watch everyone dying in 4v4 without being able to do anything.

The big problem with balance in FF, is that they have to choose between balancing for a 4v4 ranked mode or large modes such frontlines or 8v8. But to have both modes balanced correctly, they would need to separate pvp actions in both feast and frontlines. But I wouldn't call the current situation "just a little unbalanced": AST/WAR/RDM/ most melee are close to be unplayable, especially in 4v4. Before, it was just DRK.

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This is why you either have large scale PvP or small - NOT BOTH - you can't balance both. Healers are too strong in Frontlines. Abilities like Blunt Arrow (BRD silence) are near worthless in Frontlines (except silencing the poor unsuspecting RDM right before you finish them off :D) but a potential game saver in 4v4. At the very least, they could add a "dampening" type effect in Frontlines that reduces healing potency

I think this is easier to balance, honestly. They can add skills, subtract skills, or nerf/buff skills without it ever taking away from PvE. Also, with the amount of skills we had + the PvP added ones, was just a little much.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

I think this is easier to balance, honestly. They can add skills, subtract skills, or nerf/buff skills without it ever taking away from PvE. Also, with the amount of skills we had + the PvP added ones, was just a little much.

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I've said it before but the "too many buttons" thing really wasn't quite as valid as people think. Mileage varies of course.

I main MCH (a job a lot of people already claimed was confusing/had too much going on), and in the PvP section, with pictures, I showed that even with the 3 hotbars I ran (my 2 regular PvE, and one dedicated PvP hotbar), if I took off things I absolutely never used, and a lot of the redundant skills (placed for speed/easy access), I easily could've just ran 2 hotbars, and with very little impact to the setup I already had for PvE.

Honestly though, I just can't agree with the "too many buttons" talking point, but that's also because I knew my job well, and I learned what was effective in PvP and what wasn't. In the case of DRG, I had plenty of empty space on my second hotbar, even with all their PvP skills. Same with MNK. It's hard for me to agree when I know there was a certain lack of knowledge of these things by most players who were just trying it out (and SE never made any attempt to explain it), or they were simply inflexible about removing other things for useful skills.

This is not to say the new system is bad. But if we could have the good aspects of the new system, but retain the depth the old system did, I think it would be quite a perfect mix.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

I love it overall. I do wish not so many abilities got cut, but you had such an unbalanced mess with the previous iteration of PVP -- I mean machinist had knockback, stun, silence, bind (IIRC) -- no other class had all of those CC abilities on top of a crazy burst. Although I think this version is still very basic and that they may add to it, it is much, much fairer which is absolutely needed in FFXIV PVP.

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You see we had lots of CC. . . They were all shared cooldowns. If you sileced, no stun, if you bound, no heavy, not til both were off CD. Did a PLD see you pop all your buffs, apply Wildfire, and is stun locking you? Goodbye Wildfire. Did a healer bene/essential dignity your burst? Kill denied. Then there's all the other physical DPS having access to both Recuperate AND Second Wind, but not you.

Offense is the only thing MCH really had, and plenty of jobs could shut it down. IF the player knew how.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I've said it before but the "too many buttons" thing really wasn't quite as valid as people think. Mileage varies of course.

I main MCH (a job a lot of people already claimed was confusing/had too much going on), and in the PvP section, with pictures, I showed that even with the 3 hotbars I ran (my 2 regular PvE, and one dedicated PvP hotbar), if I took off things I absolutely never used, and a lot of the redundant skills (placed for speed/easy access), I easily could've just ran 2 hotbars, and with very little impact to the setup I already had for PvE.

Honestly though, I just can't agree with the "too many buttons" talking point, but that's also because I knew my job well, and I learned what was effective in PvP and what wasn't. In the case of DRG, I had plenty of empty space on my second hotbar, even with all their PvP skills. Same with MNK. It's hard for me to agree when I know there was a certain lack of knowledge of these things by most players who were just trying it out (and SE never made any attempt to explain it), or they were simply inflexible about removing other things for useful skills.

This is not to say the new system is bad. But if we could have the good aspects of the new system, but retain the depth the old system did, I think it would be quite a perfect mix.

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I think you're taking my "too many buttons" thing a little further than I had said. I shouldn't have to switch around bars and do all this finagling to access a mini-game of sorts in the game, especially every time I decide to PvP with a different job. Could the classes use more abilities in PvP now? Sure, It'd evolve the dynamic more, and with the set up they currently have, they have complete control over how it's balanced.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

I think this is easier to balance, honestly. They can add skills, subtract skills, or nerf/buff skills without it ever taking away from PvE. Also, with the amount of skills we had + the PvP added ones, was just a little much.

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That's why I could agree with a skill reduction cause it could feel overwhelming for any new player, but I would have been in favor of something like 16-20 skills, more or less what we have at lvl 50-60. With that, an efficient traits and special action customization that is class/role based would have fit the reduction of skills while allowing more depth in gameplay.

But in the current situation, I think it's only here to legitimate the quick chat feature, that is garbage from the start. Basically, we traded a bar full of skills for a bar full of text, and I'd prefer having the former.

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Originally Posted by Shut

I would have apreciated those changes if they were correctly done. I would have liked customization via traits and pvp actions if it wasn't an illusion of choice, and at least half of them are a joke. I would have liked skills reduction if it was not boring as hell for most jobs. 0.14 secs reduction of GCD isn't compensating the loss of all CD we had. But I guess bots are thankful, it's easier for them to act as players during peak hours now



And how it is now? WAR is no longer viable, I don't even need to talk about AST.

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I agree the customization is flat out gone. I am confused as to why you think that about WAR. Is it because they stopped it from being a DPS pretending to be a tank? It actually plays reasonable lock down now , and a correctly timed cool down makes it possible to shrug off limit breaks now. Fell cleave is still no joke albeit limited compared to it's previously unreasonable numbers. How is getting to smack someone with double cleave ,and instant kill even remotely tank role? Also you're upset the previously nigh unkillable Healer got adjusted? We'll have to disagree on those two. Large scale battles will never be strategic until they start basing rewards on personal performance, and hold people accountable for not playing the objectives. As I don't see the latter happening as it deters subscribers we will probably never see true strategy in large scale pvp. It's unfortunate that so many only see pvp as a means by which to wail on other players unreserved , rather than a way to display their superior job knowledge and skill.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

I agree the customization is flat out gone. I am confused as to why you think that about WAR. Is it because they stopped it from being a DPS pretending to be a tank? It actually plays reasonable lock down now , and a correctly timed cool down makes it possible to shrug off limit breaks now. Fell cleave is still no joke albeit limited compared to it's previously unreasonable numbers. How is getting to smack someone with double cleave ,and instant kill even remotely tank role? Also you're upset the previously nigh unkillable Healer got adjusted? We'll have to disagree on those two.

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WAR in HW wasn't as OP as people think. In frontlines, his best move was using pushback/vengeance to completely wreck any melee attacking him, which made him powerful.That advantage completely disapear in 4v4 because no one attack tanks but retards (and if he has 10 stacks, which should not happen in high lvl play). Also, in feast, you had to play smart as WAR to be an actual nuisance to a healer: berserk completely telegraph his burst and healers can prepare for this using their cc. Outside of berserk, fell cleave was no longer a threat, especially against SCH. PLD was much more a nuisance than WAR, but at least, WAR had stun back then, and that one fact made him good when in the right hands.

You said WAR isn't a DPS pretending to be a tank anymore? That's exactly the opposite, they made him full DPS: Inner release is the new zerk that even prevent cc on him, upheaval between 2 FC can do 6k pot in 2 GCD, or you do 4 FC in a row for 8k dmg in 4 GCD (and in pvp, that's damn long). They made WAR a completely DPS-Tank this time and neglected every aspect of support, but this is not enough to compensate the lack of actual cc. Because yes, tomahawk is bad, useful only if enemy team is retreating. Holmgang can be easely countered with purify, leaving the WAR unable to move for 4 secs, and WAR has no other cc that can bait a purify. Onslaught prevent from casting for 1 secs, not healers oGCD. CC are the most important threat for a healer, especially on a PvP where cc resistance is 10-15 secs, and WAR isn't a problem for healers on this side. His numbers aren't so bad right now, but the fact that DRK and PLD have both stun and silence make them superior and by far (and even more support skills). He at least needs a stun instead of onslaught knockback for example. And that mean something for your DPS if the tank is unable to staun or silence the healer.

About AST... I don't know any nigh unkillable healer roles, but I do know nigh unkillable people, and there are few of them. Considering the high amount of AST in previous seasons, I would have never made it to top 100 twice if they were nigh unkillable cause my own skills aren't close to top players. There was no such things as close nigh unkillable healers, either in feast and in frontlines. Healing in PvP is hard and stressful, and even a good healer cannot carry a bad team. Concerning the current issues, I'm not the best to talk about it since I've never like playing AST in pvp, but people here or in pvp forums part already talked about it, which were mostly MP issues, RNG with cards, and lack of protect/survivability compared to other healers, which means A LOT in feast

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

Large scale battles will never be strategic until they start basing rewards on personal performance, and hold people accountable for not playing the objectives. As I don't see the latter happening as it deters subscribers we will probably never see true strategy in large scale pvp. It's unfortunate that so many only see pvp as a means by which to wail on other players unreserved , rather than a way to display their superior job knowledge and skill.

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Secure map is designed for strategic battles only. Also, it happened in Seals rock, not every games but still, you need to use strategic calls correctly to counter spawns in favors of enemy team, when to let enemy having nodes and take one specific node. Shatter is the laziest mode (slaughter doesn't exist anymore), its design only encourage players to go on rendez-vous points called big crystals, while thinking it's the only way to win, and reject any other form of strategy. No wonder why bots like this mode.

As someone who hates PVP in 99% of the games out there, I have to say I actually enjoy the PVP system in the game as it is now. So my vote goes to keeping it as it is now <3

I really enjoy what they've done with the pvp, however I hope we'll see some balance adjustments pretty soon. Right now distance dps deal too much damage with no penalty compared to melees. I really enjoy playing SAM in pvp for his burst, but whenever I switch to MCH it's just night and day with how much damage you can deal with MCH without putting yourself in danger.

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Originally Posted by Shut

In larger modes like 8v8 or frontlines, the loss of survivability made melee at the mercy of range even more than before.

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I would also add that playing tank in these modes without healer is pretty much death wish assuming you are trying to do your job in there, it kinda sucks that i can't use my preferred role in pvp if there is no support from another role. WAR used to be my go to job if there was no healers in team but now it is BRD due range being the king in bigger maps so you rarely even need healing.

As someone fond of both PVP and PVE I..have to agree with Yoshida on this one. The main reason being if both PVP and PVE share the same skill set, if a particular class becomes too over powered in a PVP setting. It usually means a nerf is going to come to balance out the PVP side of things. Which in turn is going to nerf the same class for PVE. Which is going to make the players that enjoy PVE and don't really get into PVP a little ticked off. With skill different from PVP and PVE it stops the whole cycle of balancing and rebalancing for whichever side of the game play coin you're on.

In regards to power level of warriors during Heavensward I have dug up some footage for your viewing pleasure.

https://youtu.be/wGIm2ORUmjc

Current WAR power level for reference also included. Note how middle row this person plays as apposed to front line charging in head first.

https://youtu.be/_XHMhjsgEAI

I agree it was intended to be played that way ... it just isn't. I am hopeful that the new 2 team battles they have promised will be better and at least lessen the fight in the middle mentality that plagues pvp at the moment.

@Synestra You should try sniping people who try to "gank" your dps ,and backline with homegang ,and tomahawk. It's relatively enjoyable even tho they don't let us tank/distract properly anymore.

The BLM in PvP confuses me. I prefered when I could play it just like I was playing it in PvE.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

In regards to power level of warriors during Heavensward I have dug up some footage for your viewing pleasure.

https://youtu.be/wGIm2ORUmjc

Current WAR power level for reference also included. Note how middle row this person plays as apposed to front line charging in head first.

https://youtu.be/_XHMhjsgEAI

I agree it was intended to be played that way ... it just isn't. I am hopeful that the new 2 team battles they have promised will be better and at least lessen the fight in the middle mentality that plagues pvp at the moment.

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You also forgot all rara mira's pvp video's and lot of other pvp players/streamers that show WAR in his golden age. Thank you, I've also 2 shotted players when I was playing WAR in feast, and I know how to wreck newbies in frontlines too, I just didn't recorded footage when my burst was countered. I don't denigrate those people that make videos, they are good players and I like watching them, but it doesn't show any moment the healer manage to counter war burst and cc him. I could have made videos where I succeeded in 1v1 a WAR with a MCH, but does that mean that WAR is bad or MCH is OP? No, because I choosed to show those moments of glory.

Back in HW, WAR was good, but not OP, because if you only rely on that double FC in plat/diamond lvl of feast, trust me, you won't win many matches. Since 4v4 is the only actual high level ranked mode, you cannot determine if balancing is right based on other modes, especially with the huge difference there is between 4v4 and other modes.

That is still not showing me how war is decent right now, I have yet to see or heard any good WAR reviews for feast, so far, I just saw long time warriors in PvP droping for PLD or DRK and read negatives feedbacks of players. CHeck this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Feedback-Tank/
With current warrior, you CANNOT stop a healer freecasting, and if a tank can't do that, it's not viable. His damages are fine, it's not really the problem, the problems comes from his lacck of abilities to prevent freecasting. It's even easier to heal through that if the healer has safeguard activated. Good cc means more that good DPS in feast, because good healers aren't waiting obediently to get wreck by high damages skills.

Shut you sound like an aspiring meta gamer. There is nothing wrong with this , but meta is a small percent and a company looking to make money must always bet on the majority. You as a tank in 3.X were meant to harass and waylay the healers or DPS depending on the circumstances. My assertion is that things have changed role-wise for pvp tank because not everyone was close enough in 3.X to be fair when teams were random. Paladin could stun lock a healer for a fair bit at vital times, Dark knight struggled to occupy other players more than just being annoying , but Warrior was indeed a threat to survival for healers because spike damage was lethal when arranged correctly. Crowd controlled out by a healer amid you spike damage? Where was purify ,or did you use it inopportunely? It's never pleasant having to adjust your playstyle , but life goes on. Feel free to campaign for a return , but it seems like you just haven't tried playing it any differently.