Is Dissipation really that bad?

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Originally Posted by Clouse_Cleyra

Thats ofc is the only and best way to use it.
But as I answered u before you can still do the same and dont dissipate, it is and will be a mp loss. If its usable or not is a different thing

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I agree you dont always have to and you can only do it every 4th deployment anyway so dissipate isn't going to be up each time.

90s 180s 270s 360s for deploy
120.........240s..360s for dissipate

regarding the MP loss with 3 aether stacks you get

energy drain x3 for 3600 MP vs
summon for 2400 MP

so I wouldn't call it an MP loss at the very least it's just a hassle if you have to hardcast it. however you can call it a DPS loss since you will be casting summon instead of Broils.

the 3 aether stacks also count towards your fairy gauge if you can wait 20seconds and summon your fairy again) and also your aether trait

Dissipation is one of those Extremly situational skills that you rarely use, than when the times for it to shine comes, you just forget it exists.

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Originally Posted by Nowakii

Dissipation is one of those Extremly situational skills that you rarely use, than when the times for it to shine comes, you just forget it exists.

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if you mean waiting for things to go south before popping dissipate to give you extra lustrates.. that's not the optimal way to use it. the best way to use dissipate is with largess and deployed adlo in preparation for back to back aoe damage (largess has the same cd with deployment at 90s). you plan it's use ahead with your fairy cooldowns. removing your fairy when things go bad is the last thing you want to do.

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

if you mean waiting for things to go south before popping dissipate to give you extra lustrates.. that's not the optimal way to use it. the best way to use dissipate is with largess and deployed adlo in preparation for back to back aoe damage. you plan it's use ahead with your fairy cooldowns. removing your fairy when things go bad is the last thing you want to do.

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You keep saying this....that is honestly one of the most wasteful combination of cool downs I've seen for SCH.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

You keep saying this....that is honestly one of the most wasteful combination of cool downs I've seen for SCH.

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when do you use 20% magic damage reduction? why is largess adlo a waste of combo cooldowns? isn't that why you pop sacred soil asylum and collective uc. during raid busters? when do you use your illum and covenant

8man savage context

when o1s does Charybdis and 2 back to back roars that's when I use fey covenant and/or illum. I don't dissipate yet because we've only downed the boss once so I'm not that confident yet. is my choice of ability use a waste in this instance?

Charybdis plus raid buster has a long cast time. my buffs are definitely not going to waste because they will be up when it matters.

it can be a waste however if I try to do the same thing after downburst > lebinbolt > raid buster because everyone may not be in range , the fairy has animation lock, AND this certain mechanic happens faster than the Charybdis phase

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

if you mean waiting for things to go south before popping dissipate to give you extra lustrates.. that's not the optimal way to use it. the best way to use dissipate is with largess and deployed adlo in preparation for back to back aoe damage (largess has the same cd with deployment at 90s). you plan it's use ahead with your fairy cooldowns. removing your fairy when things go bad is the last thing you want to do.

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And again, you can do the same without using Dissipation, you can still adlo+deploy+crit+all the other buffs u said.
Dissipation is not needed for those skills o.o

I think its the 3rd time.

What jeri says is you dont wanna burn down all your defensive spells in one shot. The fight lasts more than 1 attack.
And for Chary I think I just use Indom, and Succor with Ilumination or Largess (only 1 of them) and its all good, roar doesnt make that damage.

Also you saying you dont use Dissipation because you still arent very confortable, thats exactly what I mean, when u already have a fight in farm you dont need all the little details you need when you are in progression, the fight is already easy and you know it well, there you can do w/e you want.

The important part of the kit is what you use when you are on progressions and suffering.

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

when do you use 20% magic damage reduction? why is largess adlo a waste of combo cooldowns? isn't that why you pop sacred soil asylum and collective uc. during raid busters? when do you use your illum and covenant?

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You're burning cool downs to set up a large amount of healing while simultaneously limiting the amount of damage your group will be taking. Do you really not see how that might be wasteful, especially factoring in content design and the probable existence of a second healer?

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

You're burning cool downs to set up a large amount of healing while simultaneously limiting the amount of damage your group will be taking. Do you really not see how that might be wasteful, especially factoring in content design and the probable existence of a second healer?

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I edited my post to give concrete examples. how would you change or improve it?

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

I edited my post to give concrete examples. how would you change or improve it?

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How would I change it? Don't burn everything, or nearly everything in your Arsenal to counter a single ability. Effective healing is keeping everyone alive with the fewest resources invested at any given time.

I agree with jerichai, charybdis doesnt require you using all your skills to heal through unless you and you are healing the whole group and your co-healer isn't doing jack squat which probably is not the case and then your just wasting everything you have on one mechanic. i personally only do indom on that fight and let my co-healer handle the rest and ill throw one succor for safe measures.
also yeah if your just learning a fight i can see dissipation being more useful instead of a farm group so im confused on your thought process i suppose when your on farm you use all those free aetherflow on energy drain but still weird thinking.

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

I regarding the MP loss with 3 aether stacks you get

energy drain x3 for 3600 MP vs
summon for 2400 MP

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You're not factoring in increased MP expenditures during dissipation with your analysis. If you're dedicating your AFs to energy drain, then you're forced to heal with spell's that cost MP. Not only that, but you also have to make up the potential healing from the missing fairy, both from embrace and tether. Also, if you don't or can't wait to spend AF before fairy is back, that's future MP free healing you're loosing out on.

The only downside of Dissipation is that it requires Swiftcast....It gives
Free 3 Atherflows: which at worst are 3600 mana + 450 potency damage. It can be a free 1800 healing potency (which is more than 2400-mana worth of Physicks btw, without costing you 4 GCDs). It could be a free Indom which by itself out-value Succor which is over 2k mana.
Reduce 15s of Atherflow: a nice bonus if you can spend all the stacks before the CD is up
30 Fairy Gauge: doable but need a lot of planning.
20% Healing:Scholars doesn't use their basic heal as often as the other healer. Still, it makes Sch's heal become very high potency/cast. Stacking with Illumination/Largess.

Ideally you wanna use Dissipation when: Rouse/Dawn is spent. Fairy Gauge is less than 70. Atherflow is at 45s CD. (So that you can resummon your fairy at 15s left and reap that tasty 30 fairy gauge). It is a lot to keep track of, but still much better and more fun than watching 4-5 dot timers :P

I find dissipation to be a really powerful skill. The only thing it really costs is a swiftcast cd, but in return you get the equivalent of THREE oGCD heals and 20% more healing on all GCD's.

The other thing is that patch 4.05 made all AF actions remove 5 seconds from AF, which means its theoretically possible to burst 12 AF actions in under 35 seconds. That's potentially 7200 potency worth of single-target heals for pretty much free mana cost. You literally never have to hard-cast a heal during trash pulls ever again.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

You're not factoring in increased MP expenditures during snip.

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reached the daily posting limit yesterday lol. i agree with all your points.

I admit i didn't factor in those things thaf you mentioned. IN a raid you wouldn't want to use dissipation on cooldown anyway and there are only very specific and small instances where you can use dissipation and it would be a total benefit without all the downsides that you mentioned. I certainly don t use dissipation as often as I would lead others to believe based on my posts on this thread. Basically i have to memorize to the point the mechanocs first and after that figure out when I can dissipate (because everything you said is right). right now I only use it on Susano s sword phase where the transitions are long enough to be able to hardcast the pet and not lose passive healing during it a downtime. energy drain wouod be good use for the extra stacks to after Indom and if you are confident you wouldnt need the extra lustrates. I haven't found an ideal use for it yet in o1s and o2s. maybe after a couple more weeks.

there is a "similar" fight in o3s where a lot of back to back aoe damage is coming out during apanda library phase. I was in a pug and it was my first time reaching the animals and the pug leader called for an adlo as a prep for that mechanic. could be a good use to pop fairy cooldowns then dissipate but have i have to see the fight more. during this phase the add will be doing a lot of damage on the tank while halicarnassus spans dimensional wave iirc.

either I'll pop fairy cooldowns and dissipate largesse adlo then ET succor > succor > indom.

or pop fairy cds do the same thing but have fey union on the tank. for now I'll think I'll do the latter.

ADD comes out. hali starts spamming dimensional. i pop fairy cooldowns. if aetherflow is on a long cooldown and I use sacred soil, excog and save one stack for an indom i couuuuld dissipate if extra stack is needed for emergency lustrates but hoping it won't come to that. most groupsnive been in have WHMs after all.. they are SO clutch/strong right now in savage

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Originally Posted by ScorpiusO-Ra-E

This is what I'm looking for it's definitely not as useless as everyone seems to think it's like SCH overdrive (well when used with largesse anyway.)

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Woah woah woah. Wait a minute.

Why would you make a thread asking if it is good, if you are only looking for answers that fit your agenda (in this case, that dissapation is good)? Everyone else had legitimate reasons why they dislike it but you didn't like those answers so they weren't "correct".

Seriously dude...

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

Woah woah woah. Wait a minute.

Why would you make a thread asking if it is good, if you are only looking for answers that fit your agenda (in this case, that dissapation is good)? Everyone else had legitimate reasons why they dislike it but you didn't like those answers so they weren't "correct".

Seriously dude...

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it's marginally, sometimes, in specific instances, situationally good, but most of the time it's bad and just a hassle to use especially when compared to other healers long cooldowns that have an immediate beneficial effect with no downsides. that's what it is.

I would have loved if it also

1. resummoms your fairy, and
2. instead of the 20% healing buff you get a 100% critical chance on your next galvanizing effect

it's a 120sec cd anyway...

maybe in my dreams.

I used to love it. Use it just before long phase transitions. After i found out you could use it as a FAIRY SWAP I FELL IN LOVE. Then SE went and fixed it. :[ Now i hate it. Took a what was a good skill by accidental design and made it meh.

The thing I'll never have:

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...issipation.png Dissipation: Orders your pet away while granting you a full Aetherflow stack.
Also grants a buff that increases healing magic potency by 20%. Aetherflow spent while in dissipation will fill fairy gauge at a rate of 20 instead of 10. Using aetherflow outside of a fairy summoned or dissipation will have no effect on the gauge. Your next Summon or Summon II is instant cast. Buff ends after 30 seconds or when your next Summon or Summon II is cast.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

You're not factoring in increased MP expenditures during dissipation with your analysis. If you're dedicating your AFs to energy drain, then you're forced to heal with spell's that cost MP. Not only that, but you also have to make up the potential healing from the missing fairy, both from embrace and tether. Also, if you don't or can't wait to spend AF before fairy is back, that's future MP free healing you're loosing out on.

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The only MP expenditure is the potential healing from the missing fairy. The rest should be the same even if you don't blow the fairy since in both cases SCH would need to heal. Moreover, since usually blowing the fairy should be used in heavy AoE situations, in those heavy AoE situations the SCH that blows the fairy would consume less MP as it would need to do less cast and would have more aetherflow to deal with it.

The only potential cost of blowing the fairy is the healing after that AoE situation and having to blow swiftcast. And don't tell me that resummoning your fairy is MP expenditure when you get 3 Aetherflow you wouldn't ever get if you don't blow her.

I'd rather largesse and spam physick than kill my faerie.

I like having it as backup, but wish it did resumon the fairy after. In savage so far 1-2 its not needed with my group.
I've mainly used it on massive tank pulls in expert, as some tanks love to up their dps with str, that it lowers party dps due to me standing there. Healing a tank non stop with his ultra low hp. The sams hp in the party was 2000 hp below the tanks max hp lol. Luckly i can kill my fairy fast and get more lustrates to cure the tank. Most of the time ppl are knowledgeable in the art of tanking to balance in coming/out going dmg, which buys time for dot spread.

I dont mind the loss of the fairy heal because in hw fairy was always around 20% of my healing, I think. The part that hurts is the loss of fairy gague, correct me if im wrong. But I think that resets when we kill the fairy on the move.

after an entire day of pug V3S I've been using it on the very first spellblade holy. with 13k critlo it's saved some people with bad positioning and theres enlugh shields left for the following Waltz. its fun to hear PUGs reaction on discord when i pull it off xD.thats the only time I use it though. all fairy cooldowns on pull. largesse adlo plus excog on the tank for tank buster then dissipate spam adlo (4 times) to fish for a crit then deploy. hardcast the fairy during oink (no healing required on the raid during this time. that's the only time I use it though. currently stuck at library apanda :s

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

Snip

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Maybe try reading the full conversation...? If the SCH blows all the AFs from dissipation on Energy Drains...then all their healing during the fairy downtime and before the CD on AF finishes will require MP burning abilities. And just because you have a 20% boost to healing doesn't mean you're guaranteed to cast fewer spells. In some cases it may be the same number of casts...just with more potential overhealing. This is especially true if you factor in the presence of a second healer. Sure, 20% can get people to or closer to a safe level within the same number of casts...but that doesn't necessarily stop you from needing to cast x number of times to top people off.

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

also don't take heed to SChs who use the argument "you'll use up more mana reaummoning the fairy." that is 100% FALSE.

say you use dissipation for a largessed deployed adlo with rouse plus whispering dawn ticking on the raid. thay is MORE than enough contribution from you so thay any bit of HP left should be HANDLED by your co healer.

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I know you're super excited about the big numbers on a buffed Adlo, but honestly sacrificing the fairy just for a big deployed Adlo isn't worth it, at least not unless the +20% buff from Dissipation is absolutely necessary for survival (there are situations where this can happen in later Savage encounters). Largesse + Fey Illum are more than enough to buff a deployed Adlo for a big hitting mechanic, and often it's better to just heal with your instants afterwards if the unmitigated hit wasn't going to be lethal anyways.

You used Twin Bolt as an example, but I counter with mine:

I use Excog on the OT waaay before Twin Bolt happens, using Bio II to weave it in. Once Twin Bolt actually hits, the other healer uses Tetra+Regen on the MT, while Excog brings the OT to about 50-60%, and then I use Fey Union on the OT using Miasma II's weave to top him off. Once he's topped off, Fey Union goes to the MT instead while both the other healer and me are DPSing.

There. We handled Twin Bolt perfectly fine by only using one GCD in healing, and by barely sacrificing any resources. The biggest hit to my MP pool comes from Miasma II, but I was gonna use that anyways.

I'm not saying your method doesn't get the job done, it's just really inefficient and you're sacrificing a lot of things without much of a gain. And yes, you are making a big sacrifice, since you're losing 30 seconds of Embrace which facilitates the other healer to DPS, you're losing Swiftcast, and you're losing the MP cost of Summon, and also one GCD in which you're neither healing nor DPSing. And for what? A big number on Adlo?

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

I'd rather largesse and spam physick than kill my faerie.

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This /10char

Well let's think about the total cost/benefits of dissipation. Fairy does 50'ish potency worth of heals per second, so over 30 seconds we lose 1200 worth of potency. We gain 3 lustrates which is 1800 potency, so a gain of 600 potency at the cost of the mana for a summon + swiftcast. Any Adlo's/physicks you cast from then on is just a straight 20% bonus for 30 seconds.

So..

basic cost of a dissipation is swiftcast+summon mana+GCD
basic benefit of dissipation is 600 potency + 20% increased healing for 30s.

What can we do with the GCD? Let say we use it on Adlo. Non-crit adlo is 600 pot for 1800 mana + GCD. Cross out the common factors (600 pot, mana, GCD) and we have the true opportunity cost:

600 mana + swiftcast CD. So it is pretty much equivalent to a 2nd largesse, more or less. As fancy as the skill is, it doesn't actually do anything - all it really does is let you trade one role skill for another.

--TL;DR - Dissipation basically lets you trade a swiftcast for a 2nd largesse that costs 600 mana and lasts 30s. I suppose the benefit is the flexibility it offers.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

The thing I'll never have:

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...issipation.png Dissipation: Orders your pet away while granting you a full Aetherflow stack.
Also grants a buff that increases healing magic potency by 20%. Aetherflow spent while in dissipation will fill fairy gauge at a rate of 20 instead of 10. Using aetherflow outside of a fairy summoned or dissipation will have no effect on the gauge. Your next Summon or Summon II is instant cast. Buff ends after 30 seconds or when your next Summon or Summon II is cast.

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too bad spending aetherflow while under the effects of dissipation (faerie can't be summoned) does nothing to the faerie gauge.

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Originally Posted by MercuryAcetylene

too bad spending aetherflow while under the effects of dissipation (faerie can't be summoned) does nothing to the faerie gauge.

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Yeah :[ That's why it's part of my suggested skill change.

They really just need to make it resummon the fairy at the end.... The MP cost (and possibly time to resummon it) is what makes the skill aweful.
I mean, I still have it "in case".
However, with the buff to hasted etherflux it's less terrible. At least you gain another 15sec CDR on your flux.

But really, the day they make the spell resummon the fairy, you'll see more people using it. It would still be an emergency spell though.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

I know you're super excited about the big numbers on a buffed Adlo, but honestly sacrificing the fairy just for a big deployed Adlo isn't worth it, at least not unless the snip

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that's from a the earlier part of the threads diiscussion. we've agreed that dissipation is really very limited in use and only used in specific instances and not used on cooldown. I've been working on V3S for 2 days now since making that post and I've only played with dissipation during the very first pulll.

I also removed all my crit V materia and replaced it with the good old boring det VI materias so I'm not fishing for super buffed critlos anymore.

...character limitt...

...continued..

I've been studying Elysiums YunnaFXs SCH video of O3S to help my static this week and looked at his dissipate use

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqn6KmF7nHI&t=5m40s

timeline (towards End of library)
- adlo already used for red north aoe and south book stack mechanic
- fairy gauge at 100
- going into dimensional wave
- running out of aether stacks. aetherflow still on CD
- aoe hits raid. dissipate used / succor
- burns 3 stacks of af
- af back up
- Animals phase (pet healing not needed)
- Swiftcasts eos
- Pet comes back with previous 100 fairy gauge

Yunna's O3S vid is good. Aside from the scythe tether being taken to the wrong direction, as you want to always end up mindjacked in a diagonal-direction from your tether :)

I do like the Dissipate spot right before the animal game if you need the stacks. Although this can potentially take your swiftcast out during the last phase period where there is likely more-derp. It's a basically a dead spot for any damage, but it is notable to get more stacks freely.

The fairy tether is pretty valuable in several places, since it allows more healer DPS uptime for both. Especially the tanks that take an add by themselves. Of course my PLD does run the fight mostly in Sword Oats, and autos and mechanic damage I really don't have to babysit because of it. I'm sure this will change a bit as the weeks go-by with more gear.

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

that's from a the earlier part of the threads diiscussion. we've agreed that dissipation is really very limited in use and only used in specific instances and not used on cooldown. I've been working on V3S for 2 days now since making that post and I've only played with dissipation during the very first pulll.

I also removed all my crit V materia and replaced it with the good old boring det VI materias so I'm not fishing for super buffed critlos anymore.

...character limitt...

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Aye. Apologies!