Lazy Healers In Parties of Eight

Blame SE for making content so healer friendly, at the moment there is no need for 2 healers to pump 100% focus healing in any fight, for that reason you'll have SCH and AST (nocturnal) probably spending more time doing dps and pre-shielding the group and the tank on busters since the job is less reactive.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

This wasn't just random. This was the third time in a week. How about you ask questions instead of assuming what you think you know.

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Third time or seventh time, why did it need its own thread when we have the DF thread to contain all that senseless whining?

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

I'd rather have a lazy healer who just tops off health bars, than the "nothing but DPS" "healer"

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certain content doesnt need a healer to play in full heal unless at key points during the run.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

These same players will never allow your AoE HoTs to be useful either, because they have their OCD triggered when people aren't at 100% all the time and consequently spam medica on people at 90% to nullify your HoTs.

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Is it OCD to keep people at high health if you dont remember every aspect of all dungeons cos you didnt pull a no lifer to play them to death?
I tend to play similar to that but I hate aoe spam cos it makes the healer look like she or he is panicing so i dont tend to use it as much.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

Also, I still have PTSD with a SCH Co-healer who did nothing, literal nothing in Susano EX.
Also another Noct AST co-heal never using her shields in same trial.

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thats where kicking comes into play.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

You're absolutely right! Surely nothing will go wrong when i run myself out of MP spam casting Broil!

I come from a healing background where if i wanted my MP to last the whole fight, I needed to stop casting altogether and work with my co-healers so that we could alternate taking breaks to allow for natural regen.

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You have mp refreshing abilities and your party usually also has ways to help you (Refresh/ Manashift). standing around doing nothing is horribly inefficient.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

I'd rather have a lazy healer who just tops off health bars, than the "nothing but DPS" "healer" which has become the norm nowadays.

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I've died more from those healers than dps healers actually

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Originally Posted by technole

Those kind of heal-only healers tend to be the worst, they are not confident with the job, content, damage script, or what not.

Even in easy stuff, they don't even realize Swiftcast+Medica II or Lightspeed is actually a thing, so they are late while the other healer has it up already. Nope they just sit on these good cooldowns just like the bad tanks do too. Pushing buttons is hard, but also pushing one more button to make the job even more simple is even harder.

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Well they aren't going to get more confident (and better as players) with people like you and this thread moaning about them. Especially in the current climate of "to dps or not dps".
Seems to me if you DPS in down time you get moaned about.
If you don't dps, but there is downtime so you therefore do nothing much, you get moaned about.

Can't win.

I find it amazing that everyone who doesn't heal decides how a healer should play. Look on these forums - there aren't posts about lazy dps or lazy tanks, but every day there's a new post about how healers should play. This is how you spend your time? Posting about how you don't like the way a particular person played? Seriously, find something constructive to do. Level a healer maybe and play it the way you have decided it should be played.

I don't mind "relaxed" healers if they're competent, or in content where two healers aren't really needed.

When I know the other healer or can tell they're healing smart, a lack of heals isn't a big deal, since I know they'll be ready for the room-wide AoE. DPSing becomes much easier as well.

But that's rarely the case. It feels like the PUG healers I get rarely heal (e.g. Noct sect ASTs who don't shield) or heal too much. You end up having to overcompensate since they don't prepare for tankbusters, or run their MP dry spamming Medica II.

I've actually been pleasantly surprised by DPS party members in SB. RDMs are always on top of Raises, BLMs will Mana Shift me, and BRDs offer Refresh. Even a single RDM offers more utility than a lazy healer.

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Originally Posted by Beatific

I find it amazing that everyone who doesn't heal decides how a healer should play. Look on these forums - there aren't posts about lazy dps or lazy tanks, but every day there's a new post about how healers should play.

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this is because tanks and DDs don't stop moving inbetween skills, so nobody can see how lazy their rotation is (1-2-3 repeat). and it's forbidden to blame DDs for bad dps - but it's okay to blame the healer for bad dps, at least it seems so since NO FORUM MODS OR GAME MASTERS OR ANYBODY ELSE OF THE TEAM BEHIND FFXIV IS DOING ANYTHING AGAINST IT AND THIS IS GOING ON FOR YEARS NOW! sorry, but that wanted out xD

i just don't understand why it is okay to blame healers for "bad play" in such a huge dimension on the official board. this started small, but over the years this grew to a massive witch hunt and i think it's time for the mods to step up and stop to allow this harassing manner towards healers altogether.

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Originally Posted by Tint

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Agreed. Repeat that sentiment for the vitriol against tanks who don't meld the absolute highest DPS materia and who don't use strength accessories. This level of mindboggling anger and elitism needs to recede back to where it belongs.

You know, reddit.

Lol this is why I do not enjoy healing anymore like I did in HW, either you're not doing enough dps or either you're not healing enough or you're lazy.....My experience with dps healers especially SCHs is they ignore healing and when shit hits the fan they are still casting broil, they don't raise or anything so in an 8 man that isn't something old I rather my co healer actually heal if you wanna weave some dps in between then do so but remember your main role

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Lol this is why I do not enjoy healing anymore like I did in HW, either you're not doing enough dps or either you're not healing enough or you're lazy.....My experience with dps healers especially SCHs is they ignore healing and when shit hits the fan they are still casting broil, they don't raise or anything so in an 8 man that isn't something old I rather my co healer actually heal if you wanna weave some dps in between then do so but remember your main role

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Happens in 4man as well. I had to use HG before the first boss due to a healer not healing. Wasn't even doing large pulls(it had been a while since I last tanked, so was doing small groups in Doma Castle). Had to use HG a few more times that run...none of them on a boss.

Edit: My gear wasn't that great either because RNG hates me, and I didn't have the funds to buy anything better than Augmented Shire.

If a healer is DPSing, I wouldn't call them lazy. Depending on the fight, they may be foolish, but foolish is not the same as lazy. A healer needs to gauge how much time they spend healing, and how much time they spend DPSing. If a healer is letting the group wipe because they're too focused on DPS, they've made a very poor decision, but at least they're spending their time doing something.

Lazy is a better descriptor for healers who, when no one needs healing, simply do nothing. There are a lot of 8-man fights in this game where a single healer is more than sufficient, and yet two are still required. It's not at all a bad idea for the second healer to go full DPS.

In a lot of 8man groups i see my other healer just sort of standing there. I swear they alt tab sometimes because they don't always move and don't always react to raid damage going out, and when they finally do act, it's just maybe a cure. Meanwhile i'm out there, guns blazing, cooldowns popped, bringing the group back from the edge.

I never realized how much effort i was putting out compared to other healers until i solo healed ravana ex, and didn't feel much difference in stress levels.

I like getting another healer who tries, though. I can relax.

Meh; way too often I find myself going "Do something, ANYTHING." when it comes to the 2nd healer in the 8-man group. I just did Castrum and because I was reading this thread on my other screen whilst I was qeued up I paid notice....the other healer cast Medica 2 just before the 2nd boss (you know; when Cid has to drag his behind to said boss)....no seriously; that's all he did... no dps; no other heals, nothing..... he cast 1 medica 2 on an entire dungeon

If that's that new norm for off-healers people talk about then I can totally understand now why healers are so sparse these days; either you have to work your *** off keeping everyone alive with the rush-rush-rush that's also the norm (yeah I've seen tanks try to rush Expert roulettes too and blame the healer when they get killed by pulling 99+ mobs), or you get another healer in the group who doesn't do crap and you still don't get a commendation for doing all of the work

Healer; it's the most unappreciated job in the game atm -_-

Just seeing this topic gave me flashbacks/ptsd from one time back when Gordias normal mode was still relevant.

I was working getting my weekly drop from A2 when I got this group that was just so many types of bad. And they blamed me, on top of it. Meanwhile, the other healer did nothing.

- We wiped to trash because they ran ahead without me being ready; the load-in was unusually long, and it was a party in progress so they were just free to go.
- We wiped a first time to the main fight. I was spamming heals all around, even trying to keep up my usage of Shroud and Assize (and HQ Hi-Elixirs) so I'd be able to keep healing, and they accused me of not healing at all; meanwhile the other healer hardly ever budged with their MP and no one was handling the bombs.
- The second wipe to that fight happened almost the same way, but now with half of the bombs tended to. They told me to learn how to heal and kicked me, despite me trying to explain that they need to look at what the other "healer" is (not) doing.


On the other hand, a year and a half later, I had a separate instance in Zurvan nm when the other healer DC'd halfway into the first phase. On Sch I ended up solo healing the whole fight and nailed it. Did I improve? Sure. Was I utter crap before during Alexander? I sincerely doubt it, and like to imagine those ingrates are somehow still stuck in that A2 instance, wiping over and over again for all eternity because they can never get out until they get their shit together.

Seriously, though, second healers need to actually do stuff to contribute to the party. That's part of being in a team for such content.

People need to kick the players who aren't contributing. There isn't much else anyone can do about it. As for healers who just dps, that's up to the party to decide. I would say though that SE should just do what they did with tanks in the 24-man raids: cut half of the healers out so it's just 1 per party. Since no one really heals anymore and the fights don't have that much raid wide damage going out. There hasn't really been a need for that many healers since the introduction of LotA.

I main AST, and I go full DPS if there is nothing to heal. Healing is still my main job so if there's damage I will heal. But if not, DPS I go. And if the other healer seems to be able to solo-heal, I don't see any problems with this.

When healing with a co-healer, I find it important to always communicate on who does what. When I play a Noct AST or a SCH and I am healing with a WHM or a fellow AST, I always ask if its oke that I do more DPS. If my co-healer has issue solo healing certain parts of the battle, I assit with healing. We are in a team and we should help each other.

I do agree that healers (players in general) who dont care about the group and just do their own thing, should be kicked.

If a person only heals and the tank dies from auto attack, that healer is bad. If all he does is healing hes very bad.

I get annoyed when heal-only healers are constantly curing over my excog even when I ask them not to. In omega normal, I got a whm who healed over everything I tried to do. I tried to ask them not to and explain, but they ignored me. So I stopped healing the tank (who was in the same room as me, I let them know I was doing it, they didn't even notice) and only healed for raidwides with indom.

Nobody could tell.

A lot of SCH's heals are instant-cast, so if you're not paying attention to where the healing is coming from, it's easy to assume that the sch isn't doing any healing, when in fact they're probably doing quite a lot.

Wait, what? Its bad to have your co-healers dps now? Most 8-man (excluding omega savage) does not need your healer healing all that much or it leads to over healing. On Sch, I will dps and just toss up shields before dmg is coming. And as for whm, if my co healer is not healing the tank, I will dps and heal as needed. Of course I will help our more if shit hits the fan, but in things like Omega normal or any primal normal for that matter, if both healers are both healing constantly then there is something really wrong with the party or your both over healing. But even in Lakshmi ex and Susano ex you do not need the second healers healing constantly.

Most funny are healers that never use healing over time effects or instant abilities, but only cast cures.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

I'd rather have a lazy healer who just tops off health bars, than the "nothing but DPS" "healer" which has become the norm nowadays.

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Man if that's the norm I'm getting super unlucky, I wish I got healers like that.

I see this all the time in trial roulette.

I've had several cohealers who mostly stand there or spam either a single target or aoe cure periodically.

I do sometimes wonder what if those healers got each other as cohealers... Is that how you wind up disbanding on content from years ago?

My problem with them isn't even generally that they're bad it's more that I try to mom them and give them advice and they don't take it or are rude.

Got a co-healer SCH last night in V2 normal who only spammed Broil, as in, wouldn't look away or move for mechanics and only Broiled. He finally detonated to raid damage with six vuln stacks. I rezzed him, tossed him an Ewer, and he managed to explode to two vulns+weakness. At this point, I wrote him off as a mana loss and solo healed while DPSing.

I want the Netflix n' Chill crowd to go and stay go.

I've had to solo heal almost every Alexander normal raid last year because of a healer that would sit afk from start to finish. A8 for example, the other whm sat in the corner. Fortunately I had a smnr who did raising for me so i could conserve MP for healing.

Omg healers suck

Omg where are all the healers? Why my queues are so long?

I don't do 8 man content with random people besides a trial roulette when I'm fishing for second chances but when I do I run into one issue.

SCH and AST should learn that WHM should be doing most of the DPSing. If we are both WHM I can see where things would get confusing but in most cases with a SCH or AST just let the WHM do their thing. I'm not saying they should never help you with healing or that you should never throw in dps... just keep in mind a WHM damage potential blows yours out of the water after you put up your dots.

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Originally Posted by SlogDog

I don't do 8 man content with random people besides a trial roulette when I'm fishing for second chances but when I do I run into one issue.

SCH and AST should learn that WHM should be doing most of the DPSing. If we are both WHM I can see where things would get confusing but in most cases with a SCH or AST just let the WHM do their thing. I'm not saying they should never help you with healing or that you should never throw in dps... just keep in mind a WHM damage potential blows yours out of the water after you put up your dots.

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The whm also has an insane healing output and many ogcd heals. Why not use them and work with your co-healer together?

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Originally Posted by Gun-Cat

I am actually suggesting to my co-healer they can go and concentrate on damage most of the time. That way the encounter is done quicker and it is more fun for me because healing might become a little bit challenging.

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This is wrong, because both healers using their heal skills efficiently to free up time for both healers to dps, is much, much more efficient. It is harder to play like that, tho.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

It can be difficult to accurately assess whether a healer in 8-man content is being lazy or not. Sometimes it's clear, but many times they simply don't "top people off" as quickly as someone else might. I know personally I won't cast Cure if some damage-dealer gets knocked down to half life, unless I know a big AoE is coming. I'll toss off a Regen and leave it at that. To another healer, however, this might look as if I'm ignoring them.

I'm not arguing with your overall point, simply suggesting that you might be more reactive than the average healer. Whether this is good or bad is up for debate, though it's far from clear-cut (I'd actually argue that being over-reactive is just as harmful as being under-reactive).

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Well said. Usually i want both healers to dps and heal, since this is the most efficient way and imo most fun, but when i see an healer in PUG ignore my reggen and if he tops people of asap for example , basically trying to solo heal the fight for whatever reason, then i'll adept and heal much less. This is not optimal, but doing dmg is still better than overhealing. As an healer you just have to adept and for that know every skill of every healer. If you see an earthly star for instance, there is no reason to use azzise or indom at the same time in most cases.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Yet another reason a parser would be nice to show how active a healer is in some cases.

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In this game you want to heal as less as possible without people dying and for this reason such an parser wouldn't work or at least you shouldn't judge people on their heal numbers. When and how efficient you heal is important and not by how much.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

I'd rather have a lazy healer who just tops off health bars, than the "nothing but DPS" "healer" which has become the norm nowadays.

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i'd rather neither to be honest

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Stop doing nothing. The other healer shouldn't have to carry you. I don't know why this behavior keeps happening, but it shouldn't. I'm sick of doing 8 man content, because every so often, someone doesn't want to want to actually do the part they signed up for.

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To be faire there are lazy DPS who do next to nothing and lazy tank who don't put the bare minimum effort (looking for boss strat).

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

The whm also has an insane healing output and many ogcd heals. Why not use them and work with your co-healer together?

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I'm pretty sure "I'm not saying they should never help you with healing or that you should never throw in dps" covers that but sure, don't let me get in the way of your crusade to prove you know the basics of cohealing interaction.

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Originally Posted by SlogDog

I'm pretty sure "I'm not saying they should never help you with healing or that you should never throw in dps" covers that but sure, don't let me get in the way of your crusade to prove you know the basics of cohealing interaction.

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I am pretty sure, i've never said the stuff in your quotes or thought that you want them to never help with heal for example. I disagreed with two things in your post. First, you called it an issue, that ast or sch should know whm should do most of the dpsing, when in reality you should work together to get the most raiddps. Doesn't matter who heals more, less as long as you play as efficient as possible. Secondly, you said that whm should just do their thing (in most cases), which is still bad, if we talk about optimal play. But i do agree that playing like this can be fine, if you don't have an option to commuicate with the co-healer in an Pug group for example.

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

I am pretty sure, i've never said the stuff in your quotes.

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Alright you clarified, but if we are talking about optimal play letting the WHM do the "offhealing" nets you more combined raid dps then having your AST or SCH take that spot. The healers are both contributing 40/60, closer to 50/50 at times, but anytime the SCH/AST does majority dps the combined potential is a lot lower. AST especially easily cap out at 2kish dps, WHM can hit 3k+... An AST sacrificing 200-400 dps so that the WHM can pull out an extra 800-1k is a bigger benefit. stealing dps from the WHM doesn't make any sense for the good of the team.

Not gonna lie I do this when I get moogle hard mode in trials. Yawnn..*Alt-Tab.*

24-man content is the worse place for this because there can be a lazy healer in each party (joined by lazy BRDs and SMNs just placing/refreshing DoTs and standing around). >w>

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Originally Posted by Gun-Cat

I am actually suggesting to my co-healer they can go and concentrate on damage most of the time. That way the encounter is done quicker and it is more fun for me because healing might become a little bit challenging.

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Yea but that's both of you coordinating and agreeing to do it. Not the same as a random healer deciding to do no healing without informing anyone.

As for what OP said...well that's how it is with pugs. It's lottery. You're going to find bad and/or lazy players of every role.

Honestly there's laziness in every role when it comes to those eight mans, it's just more apparently when the healer or tank is slacking off because the only repercussion of poor DPS tends to be a longer fight or hitting the occasional enrage timer.

Whm = Medica 2 + regen MT. You are free to dps after that and use your oGCD heals as needed and cure occationally as needed

Ast(Diurnal) = ^

Ast(Nocturnal) = You take over the main healing after regens if with whm/Ast. If with sch you should've switched stances.

Sch = Despite the changes sch can still do a ton of dps and let the fairy do most of the work. If someone falls under half just throw excog or a lustrate then put a leash on the tank when your gauge is getting high.

These are simply the basics of juggling both healing and dps. I have tested all of these with pubs as well and been successful. If you can manage everything right you'll still be able to dps even while solo healing.