Why are RDMs so scared of SMN being able to heal?

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Who cares if SMN can heal as well or better than RDM? Isn't being OP good enough?

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Weeeeeeeell...

One job was created to use both White and Black magics and the other uses summoning magic primarily!
So it seems pretty self explanatory to me.
Also I doubt Red mages care, this is a lore thing.

edit: Seems like someone even quoted the official word on this on the first page! Guess that's it then :3

"You're a pet job, so manage your pets."

How are we supposed to manage said pets when we can't heal them if they get hit by something? Part of managing your pet is the ability to keep it alive, but if you don't have that then you can't actually manage them. Healers can't see pet health bars so more often than not Egis don't get healed aside from AoEs. If they are honestly afraid of SMNs being able to do things they can't because Titan-egi + sustain then nerf the healing sustain does, but at least give us SOME way to keep our pet alive. It was easier to level as SCH because Titan-egi died if more than one mob looked at it, which is just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Your job is already extremely easy with very little punishment for making mistake. You have the best burst for single target and have the highest DPS of the casters.

Who cares if SMN can heal as well or better than RDM? Isn't being OP good enough?

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I wasn't aware SMN was a difficult job that wasn't just as "easy" as you claim RDMs to be. and lol at "being OP"

I guess SAM is the "OP" Melee DPS, WHM is the "OP" healer of the roles as well.

a SMN (DPS) can change to a SCH (Healer) since they level together at will, and if they are geared. No other jobs can do that.

I can understand and even agree with what the devs think about this.

However Phisick is still an ability in the Summoner arsenal and as of now it's just a wasted slot.
If Summoners should really forget about it because class fantasy and so on then fine, make it exclusive to Scholars and let Summoners have Sustain or anything really instead of it.

This us vs them mentality when we can play all the classes is weird. I'd very much like to get pet heals back when playing SMN. Having better heals would be a perk, but that's the healer's job in a group setting.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Your job is already extremely easy with very little punishment for making mistake. You have the best burst for single target and have the highest DPS of the casters.

Who cares if SMN can heal as well or better than RDM? Isn't being OP good enough?

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Weird to assume any RDM cares what SE does with SMN's physick, because I certainly don't care if they buff SMN physick.

You people crying about homogenization. Have you looked at the healer changes or the tank changes? YoshiP is high if he thinks there isn't any. They did it to healers, why not DPS?

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

a SMN (DPS) can change to a SCH (Healer) since they level together at will, and if they are geared. No other jobs can do that.

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I don't see why you had to say this. Both are different jobs and not every Summoner or Scholar plays the counterpart job.

And they're not wrong about RDM being extremely easy compared to SMN.

OP, by your logic, DRK should get a Cure that heals for 1200 potency as well.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

I don't see why you had to say this. Both are different jobs and not every Summoner or Scholar plays the counterpart job.

And they're not wrong about RDM being extremely easy compared to SMN.

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I play both, and they are pretty much the same in terms of ease of you, the only real difference is SMN is heavly punished from dying or messing up aetherflow.

I mentioned that because it's one class that branches off into 2 for 2 different roles, and OP is ignoring that like RDM is some god at healing, when it's only really used in emergency situations. But they can't just branch off to a healer at will.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

This us vs them mentality when we can play all the classes is weird. I'd very much like to get pet heals back when playing SMN. Having better heals would be a perk, but that's the healer's job in a group setting.

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Then the healers should see pet health in the party frame. Since healers don't, SMN are expected to throw measly 400-500 physiks on their pet? I agree physik shouldn't be buffed for SMN, just give us some sort of pet healing back. Try using Titan-egi to tank any boss in the SMN class quest, it doesn't work, at all.

I don't care about healing potency. Just give us back sustain

1st: I can't give a single F to if a SMN can heal as much as me or not.
2nd: I was already really disappointed when they announced RDM wouldn't be a healer (made much more sense for me), instead being a DPS class. What made me ditch my WHM and main RDM it is the fact that, in a certain way, it WAS designed to be a hybrid-of-sorts, specially with the ability to weave Vercures in between offensive spells with dualcast. Yoshida and de devs did NOT leave aside the CORE concept of RDM that is being a viable support ON TOP of dealing damage, which is what I truly wanted to play as. The ability to RAISE with Dualcast, being the only class who can do so much "raising per second" was icing on the top for me.

So, while I couldn't care less if SMN will be able to cure or raise, I DO mind about people asking to nerf Vercure or make Verraise not affected by dualcast.
But let me just add some fuel to the fire: SMNs can only heal as an unintended byproduct of them sharing a job with SCH.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

1st: I can't give a single F to if a SMN can heal as much as me or not.

But let me just add some fuel to the fire: SMNs can only heal as an unintended byproduct of them sharing a job with SCH.

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Great, I know your new job. Heal my damn pet or give me sustain back.

@OP I haven't seen a single RDM thread worrying about SMN being able to heal yet... where are you getting this from?

Also, SMN should just get sustain back at least.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

But let me just add some fuel to the fire: SMNs can only heal as an unintended byproduct of them sharing a job with SCH.

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In FFXI Summoners were able to cast Regen on the party so them having healing capabilities is nothing new. Therefore the healing product is not because they share with SCH, but because lore permits it.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

In FFXI Summoners were able to cast Regen on the party so them having healing capabilities is nothing new. Therefore the healing product is not because they share with SCH, but because lore permits it.

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in FFXI, SMNS were more or less treated as watered down WHMs, while hugging your BP timer, tho that may have changed now, since i stopped playing it, so i could careless.

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Originally Posted by Airget

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Sorry but this is ridiculous.
I don't want every ranged to have the ability to raise.

We are fine with healer + smn and rdm who can do that.

I live for synthetic drama like this.

You know it's funny that other players and SC think we ( Summoners) give a flying F about healing other players when the fact is we only want to keep our pet alive. I mean it's really hard to solo because after titan goes you're just running around until you can resummon him and also grab aggro back. I mean other players are crying about us being able to tank, well obviously SC gave us a tank pet so we could, wait, wait, wait for it........... TANK!!! we Summoners don't won't to be like redmage we want to be Summoners obviously, so give us something to keep our pet alive.

I would just like to say, as a RDM I don't care about healing or if a SMN had strong heals anyway (Maybe they could buff potency when used on own pet?) but seeing as we are marked into the DPS category us having to spend Dualcast or time healing and raising is time I'd rather spend attacking. Yeah, glad we have it if need be but would prefer not to have to if it can be helped. How I felt back in 2.X when SMN was my main, sure I can raise if need be but that is less damage I am doing because someone messed up.

Not sure how to word this in a polite way so meh :P

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Originally Posted by Airget

Utility, who would you rather have, a RDM that can cure well and raise, a SMN that can raise or a BLM that can't do any of the two?

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The one that can output more DPS and two replacement healers if they can't be bothered to keep the party alive.

I'm pretty sure Summoners physick is now the only ability in game that doesn't scale up with the jobs main stat. It's not so much that it's useless that bugs me, it's why it's useless. Feels almost like they just forgot about it.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

I think a cure would be great but i thought maybe a sustain or regen insteadiof a direct cure would be fitting

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I could get on board with smn having a strong HoT (along with sustain) instead of a direct heal, they are DoT masters after all.
We could go even further and say let the HoT be effected by smn other abilities that extend duration and or potency. What do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I'm pretty sure Summoners physick is now the only ability in game that doesn't scale up with the jobs main stat. It's not so much that it's useless that bugs me, it's why it's useless. Feels almost like they just forgot about it.

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Any changes they make to arcanist effect both scholar and summoner. Physic is part of the arcanist kit. It's not so much that they forgot about it, only that they cannot change it without actually splitting scholar and summoner. Or remove physic from the arcanist tool kit completely.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Any changes they make to arcanist effect both scholar and summoner. Physic is part of the arcanist kit. It's not so much that they forgot about it, only that they cannot change it without actually splitting scholar and summoner. Or remove physic from the arcanist tool kit completely.

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Ruin II and Energy Drain would seem to contradict that, not to mention all the skills that are replaced that work fine while you have them, ruin, bio, etc.

Just make summoners healing spell and scholars split up. Boost the potency somehow, make it only usable on pets for summoner, and keep the other the same for scholar.

SMN need a pet heal only, give us a strong one not crappy sustain.

Physick is completely useless to smn, remove it if you don't buff if massively.

Titan is a terrible tank...buff him and add an instant aggro grabber if he is re-summoned after death. if not ,remove titan, he is an loltanking pet at best.
SE does some very nice and cool things in ffxiv, I will never deny them that!! BUT pet jobs are designed horribly imo. Horrible. Pet abilities,pet pathing, pet UI..all of it.

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Originally Posted by MistyMew

SMN need a pet heal only, give us a strong one not crappy sustain.

Physick is completely useless to smn, remove it if you don't buff if massively.

Titan is a terrible tank...buff him and add an instant aggro grabber if he is re-summoned after death. if not ,remove titan, he is an loltanking pet at best.
SE does some very nice and cool things in ffxiv, I will never deny them that!! BUT pet jobs are designed horribly imo. Horrible. Pet abilities,pet pathing, pet UI..all of it.

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I still wish they kept the summonings from FFXI, they were cooler and more useful, forget the lore. If the summonings suck what's the point anyway?

Red mage does more dps then blm really!?

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

Red mage does more dps then blm really!?

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Setup right yes, everytime i'm teamed up with one i outdo the BLM. In fact normally myself and the Tank are the top damage outputs.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

Setup right yes, everytime i'm teamed up with one i outdo the BLM. In fact normally myself and the Tank are the top damage outputs.

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Tell me once the fight end and who has more

I haven't seen a blm lose to a red mage in dps at the end of the fight only bad blm lose to red mage

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Not sure if Trolling or not...

Most RDM players don't care whether or not SMN gets Physick to scale off of INT. If anything a fair few would probably feel some level of relief as there would be slightly fewer, 'Nerf RDM,' demands from players of SMNs.

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when summoner was gifted the title of "king of aoe damage" compared to blm when hw was released, did they get the whole nerf summoner threads like this?

I think the point has been wholly missed here entirely.

The real issue here is that people want to have SMN having physic scale of INT for the completely simple reason that physic is completely redundant and totally worthless on SMN in its current form. As an example with my lvl60 SMN it heals for 550ish compared to SCH where it heals in the region of 5000 a cast. Thats a collosal difference.

Noone is asking too much here to have the Devs just fix it to have it scale of INT noone said they want it as powerful as on SCH, just fix it so that its RELEVANT. Even if it was only say 50~70% of the same effect compared to SCH it would be enough for emergency heals or enough to replace Sustain.

Otherwise whats the point of SMN having it at all its basically skillbloat. They removed something relevant but left something IRRELEVANT on SMN instead of making it just SCH exclusive and giving SMN something else. I actually think this point has been totally missed by the DEV team...

Hell all they'd have to do is have Physic scale off INT with SMN/ACN with a lower potency cast and then just give SCH a trait at lvl30 that gives them Physic II with the same potency as cure/vercure/benefic scaling of MND and the issues sorted properly.

If they don't want to have smn heal players let them have a more reliable way to heal their pet and themselves. Kinda funny that smns have four ways to heal and erase is their strongest heal.
Buff energy drain and drain and give them back sustain and call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Your job is already extremely easy with very little punishment for making mistake. You have the best burst for single target and have the highest DPS of the casters.

Who cares if SMN can heal as well or better than RDM? Isn't being OP good enough?

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Something something, filthy Wowfugees

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Originally Posted by vio_p

when summoner was gifted the title of "king of aoe damage" compared to blm when hw was released, did they get the whole nerf summoner threads like this?

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I doubt it, but then again, I'm fairly certain BLMs could still compete. Not that BLMs can't compete with RDMs now, the main issue there is BLM is a forced turret class where RDM has more freedom of movement. I think the big issue a lot of players have right now is that RDM's playstyle is simpler than that of either BLM or SMN, and so players of BLM and SMN feel that they should do more damage due to having a more complex playstyle.

Its the old entitlement issue all over again. Hardcore Min-Max types (BLM/SMN) don't believe the filthy casuals (RDM) should have access to the same content as them (competitive damage).

Having played BLM from 2.5 onwards, I was pretty happy to see RDM added. A new caster DPS, and RDM on top of that, an iconic class. The fact its simpler to play is all the more endearing, and I don't think that is justification to nerf the class. I imagine a lot of players calling out for RDM nerfs realize the same thing, but are still salty about it, so they try to point out RDM's utility as a reason to nerf it, rather than owning up to the fact they just harbor the old mindset of hardcore vs. casual. Probably because they know SE will just dismiss such sentiments outright. If the latest live letter is any indication, they may as well stop calling for nerfs now. Looks like SE read between the lines and realizes its that sentiment behind these calls for RDM nerfs, rather than any legitimate concerns for balance.

I too could honestly care less if smn gets higher healing, lol
So this is a misinformed post really.

With these answers I for one do wonder if BLM get his/her Full Black Magic Power back with tomorrows patch? And with that, blows the other caster DPS out of the water again, as it should be, right? Right :confused: Full black magic class??

Only one that doesn't want them to heal like a rdm is Yoshi. How Yoshi is now if he brought out another game wouldn't buy it.