Inferno Totem drop rate

I would rather just have a lotting system personally.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

We've been doing the Ifrit fight a LOT since the patch and so far we've only gotten 1 weapon through totems, and that's with having a single person take them all. It really doesn't feel like a fix at all. At the very least PLEASE figure out some way to make at least one totem drop 100% so linkshells can feel like they are at least making some progress. If you make the Weapons go to our Loot Lists i'd also be fine with making it so only 1 weapon drops per fight now that we have /random.

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Originally Posted by Req

The biggest issue with the totems is that the drop rate is so low that for fights like ifrit it would take around 20 fights for an LS to give everyone in the party a totem. For the moogle, on average, it would be 40 fights. The average person gets one weapon every 10 or so runs, and for everyone who goes 1/36 yeah, I understand where you are coming from. But after doing over 200 runs it evens out eventually. Trust me, you may even go multiple runs with weapons back to back.

With that being said... The totems are near worthless there is a about a 2/7 chance that the person you are giving the tokens to will get the weapon they want in the time it takes for them to collect the tokens and then they will have gone to waste, and I guarantee this is going to happen. Someone somewhere is going to be on their 19th token and then the weapon they REALLY wanted will drop and they caused someone else to lose out on getting the weapon they wanted because everyone has to start all over again to try and collect 20 tokens for the next person in line. The system is absolutely ridiculous.

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Well said Estellios, Req. :)

Let's say that only 1 Totem was a 100% Drop per Victory (and the Ifrit fight *is* a tad harder / longer now, with the Class revisions). That's ~15 minutes for the battle, + 15 minutes for the Cooldown to Re-enter = 30 minutes for 1 Totem (at 100% Drop Fix). It would still take an LS 5 Hours (8 people helping out), to get *1* member an Ifrit Weapon.

I realize that there's also the same low chance of an actual Weapon dropping into your Inventory but the chances are super low and it may not even be the weapon you want.

And while it "only" took 5 Hours for 1 Weapon, you then have to factor in time to repeat the process to help your friends and fellow LS members get their Weapon next. So another 5 Hours, 5 Hours, 5 Hours, etc.

But Req brings up a key point with the Totem/Nut Addition:

* These items are Unique / Untradeable, so that let's say the LS was pitching in and giving all the Moogle Nut Drops to you. You're at 17 / 20 Nuts for your Weapon and then... You actually get your Moogle Weapon of Choice.

Guess what? Those Moogle Nuts you have can't be traded to your Friends / LS Members. You have *start over* again and start getting 20 more Moogle Nuts for the next person you're helping out. True, you can eventually use those Totem/Nuts for yourself after helping everyone else, but that's a long ways down the road.

This whole Totem / Nut addition to the Horrible Forced Inventory Drop Loot System is a joke.

Note that I'm *not* asking for 100% Drops at all (I love long term goals like the Relic Weapons (early days) of FF XI), but this current Loot System is ridiculous. I'd rather have super low drop rates with the ability to *pass* the drop to a friend or LS member that needs it, rather than see it forced into your inventory and any Duplicates thrown to the floor.

It's a blatant Time Sink by Yoshida-san and team to stall and buy time until the next patch.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Stuff

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Basically 100% this.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

The point is, If you want SEVEN OF THE STRONGEST WEAPONS IN THE GAME, that *should* take some work. That's how MMOs work. Heck, even in a regular final fantasy some rarer drops take some work.

I don't recall maximizing KotR Materia in 10 minutes or defeating the Deep Dungeon without grinding my team for a while.

Of course, there's a fine line between ridiculously low drop rates and ridiculously high. You're proposing the latter to fix the former.

How much hours I've spent on Ifrit (and, to be honest, I haven't fought him that much) is irrelevant. If you make totem drops too common, any player can realistically get a weapon of their choice in 3-4 runs.

With a 100% drop, it's a weapon every two runs. That's easier than getting plundered set items from Shopshae.

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I feel like you haven't read the OP. Saying that you can realistically get a weapon of your choice in 3-4 runs is simply incorrect, even if everyone was to trade you their totems, as totems seem to have less than a 10% drop rate.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

^^^Hell if they made totems 100% per person I'd be totally OK with weapons not dropping in the fight at all.

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I definitely agree with this, as stated in my OP 10 fights per weapon is about 15 hours of work at the moment, which I feel would be a sane while still demanding amount. This would mean 105 hours in total.

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Originally Posted by Drex

whiners gonna whine.....

ok it's hard to get a primal weapon...as it should be!!!

With this patch you get the weapon you want, not a random one, wasn't it the point of the update....?

you guys can be sooo annoying......

Less QQ more pew pew

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Did you even read the OP and/or the thread?

The only thing I don't like about this whole mess, is that you can't give the weapon to someone if you don't need it. I've read some posts from people that have like 5 copies of the same weapon and can't trade them to LS friends that have been killing Ifrit without any luck.

I think they should make the Lamp and Tokens a "must have" item to be able to enter the battle and add the drops to the loot so everyone can be happy.

Nice whiteknights in this thread.

People forget that they still can get the Weapons drop + the Totems.

And by that.. on our last run we got 4 Weapons +1 Totem. Yeah just 1 Totem, but also 4 Weapons. Its good the way it is.

BTW when I said 1 totem dropping at 100% rate I meant for the entire party, not per-person. That way you at least feel you're getting somewhere if your group doesn't get any weapons.

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Originally Posted by Nero

People forget that they still can get the Weapons drop + the Totems.

And by that.. on our last run we got 4 Weapons +1 Totem. Yeah just 1 Totem, but also 4 Weapons. Its good the way it is.

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Nice, can you tell me your secret?

I think if they just made the drop system like darkhold and kept everything else the same people would be happier and wouldn't mind putting in the extra hours.

And then your next 5 runs will give you 1 totem to show for it.

It's just way too reliant on luck, if the Totems dropped 100% it would take 10 runs for someone to get an item that they could actually use, and if people want more than one it would take 10 more per weapon. As it is now someone could get lucky and just get every weapon in their first few runs and just invalidate the design of it that is screwing everyone over.

4 weapon drops in a run also doesn't mean anything if they can't use it/don't want to use that class.

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Originally Posted by ApplePie

Nice, can you tell me your secret?

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If i would know it lol. But seriously.. was also the highest amount we ever got. Before Patch we usually had from 0 to 2 or maybe/rarely 3, mostly 0 tho.

Maybe Karma? lol

These Items are not meant as a means by which to obtain your weapon. They are a fall back for players who have remarkably bad luck. The idea being that if you win 200 times and still dont have your Weapon you can just trade for it.

There is no reason for SE to hand you the best weapon in the game.

That kind of goes out the window when it's possible for you to get the weapon you need in one run.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

That kind of goes out the window when it's possible for you to get the weapon you need in one run.

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So having two terrible systems combined makes one good system? "You can't complain about the drop system because there's a token system! You can't complain about the token system because there's a drop system!" All we really need is one GOOD system (1-2 weapons per kill dropping to loot list).

I still say they should have scraped the weapons them self dropping all together and just gone with the tokens for weapons with those tokens being trade able in the bc. Possibly two tiers one that is enough for a weapon and the second more common one that takes multiples of.

It keeps people coming back to the fight for a while. People get the weapons they want when they hit the jackpot on the rng. If they are Done collecting weapons they can help out others by just sliding the token over to those in need if another pops up for them. Most importantly it removes that really crappy gut feeling you get when the item your friend really wants hits the floor.

Or forget the tokens all together and have the weapons go into the players loot pool to be sorted out while in the bc.

@Raikki:
I meant that you can't say that this current system makes getting a weapon appropriately difficult because for some people they will just get lucky and get what they need asap while others take tons of runs to get anything.

@ Griss: I would also prefer either/or instead of both.

This is retarded, after twenty wins post-patch and 70 wins pre-patch I have no weapon and no totems and no invites for Moogle primal because I don't have a god damn Ifrit's Bow.

Put the weapons into loot list. Solve everything.

Sigh, and here I was really hoping the totem system would be an improvement. Having 2 poor systems is not = 1 good system. Just either put the weapons in the loot list like every other thing in game and/or give us a higher drop rate of tokens. I never had any problems with the loot system in FFXI either, that would be fine with me. However I never really ran with random people, usually my LS.

I know 2.0 should fix this with a new system, but they already designed 2 poor systems so now I fear what the 2.0 system will be...

I wonder how many threads we will have to make about this until the devs find another roundabout way of addressing the issue that doesn't actually fix anything.

Killed Moogle over a dozen times. Got a Mogaxe on my 3rd kill... then a Mogaxe again 10+ kills later, which was then converted into a Kupo Nut Charm upon me leaving. With how the NM key items work it's hard to kill the moogle more then 4 times a night w/o getting exhausted from boredom. Plus there is the added fact unless I'm getting a moogle weapon it'll be like 15-20 weeks before I have enough Kupo Nut Charms to purchase an item.

tl;dr - The loot system is still crap.

I'm sorry but I disagree, I feel these items should be hard to acquire. I haven't gotten any of my items yet, but I still don't want them to be easy to get, they should be something hard to come by, not something that you can get in a matter of a few fights.

I think you'll feel differently when your friend with the level 1 class gets a weapon for said class on their first win, and 30 fights later you still don't have a weapon for your main class. I think that's what people are most upset about.

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Originally Posted by SniperRifle

Killed Moogle over a dozen times. Got a Mogaxe on my 3rd kill... then a Mogaxe again 10+ kills later, which was then converted into a Kupo Nut Charm upon me leaving. With how the NM key items work it's hard to kill the moogle more then 4 times a night w/o getting exhausted from boredom. Plus there is the added fact unless I'm getting a moogle weapon it'll be like 15-20 weeks before I have enough Kupo Nut Charms to purchase an item.

tl;dr - The loot system is still crap.

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Wait, the dup weapon turned into a nut? That is a good thing I would think anyway. But yes, the loot system is still crap

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

First you people whine that items are too easy to get, and not as "rewarding" as XI, and when they give you the gear grind you want you whine even harder. Is there anything you people won't whine about?

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It is still different from FFXI. In FFXI, while the drop rates were incredibly low, whenever it dropped, you could at least pass it to the other person. Not making the weapon passable while having a dirt low drop rate is really pushing us to the ground and then kicking us.

The system for turning items in really needs to be adjusted. Fighting Moogle 20 times itself is a lot of work and deserve at least one weapon out of it. With how often kupo nuts don't drop, and most people like to keep the nut that dropped to them, it would take a lot of work. I have beaten Moogle about six times now, and I got the nut at 1/5. So if this is how it is, then if I beat Moogle about 100+ times, I should get enough nuts to get the weapon I want.

While I may get the weapon I want during that time, the item system feels worthless basically.

Every Ifrit/Moogle fight yields at least two nuts. Make friends.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It is still different from FFXI. In FFXI, while the drop rates were incredibly low, whenever it dropped, you could at least pass it to the other person. Not making the weapon passable while having a dirt low drop rate is really pushing us to the ground and then kicking us.

The system for turning items in really needs to be adjusted. Fighting Moogle 20 times itself is a lot of work and deserve at least one weapon out of it. With how often kupo nuts don't drop, and most people like to keep the nut that dropped to them, it would take a lot of work. I have beaten Moogle about six times now, and I got the nut at 1/5. So if this is how it is, then if I beat Moogle about 100+ times, I should get enough nuts to get the weapon I want.

While I may get the weapon I want during that time, the item system feels worthless basically.

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FFXI has the infamous BCNMs. 1 pop item per run, very rarely did you get what you wanted. It's exactly the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

I'm sorry but I disagree, I feel these items should be hard to acquire. I haven't gotten any of my items yet, but I still don't want them to be easy to get, they should be something hard to come by, not something that you can get in a matter of a few fights.

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Come back when you've spent hundreds of hours winning and we'll talk.

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Originally Posted by Answa

Every Ifrit/Moogle fight yields at least two nuts. Make friends.

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This is once again incorrect and you would know this if you had defeated Ifrit more than once after the patch.

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Originally Posted by Answa

Every Ifrit/Moogle fight yields at least two nuts. Make friends.



FFXI has the infamous BCNMs. 1 pop item per run, very rarely did you get what you wanted. It's exactly the same thing.

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If I remember correctly, most things from BCNM's were able to be traded.

Damascus Ingot, Peacock Charm, and so on.

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Originally Posted by totallynotme

When I first heard about the Inferno Totems being introduced I was very excited, as I'm sure many were.

I was curious how many of them would be needed for a weapon. After fighting Ifrit at least 250 times in pick-up groups, I was 1/36 on the weapons. In my mind, 10 totems would be fair per weapon. Even if every attempt was successful, you'd need roughly 15 hours to accumulate enough of them for 1 weapon. Sounds fair, right?

So 1.20 hits us and I talk to Rowena and discover that 10 actually is the set amount, yay! Perfect SE, you finally fixed it. Then I go to fight Ifrit...

I've beaten Ifrit 13 times since the patch, and so far I have recieved 1 totem.

Why are you doing this to us SE? At this rate it would take the average successful player somewhere around 200 hours to obtain 1 weapon using this method. I love your game but that amount of time is just wrong, and anyone who thinks that is a sane amount of time to spend achieving a virtual item really needs to reevaluate his or her current life situation.

I apologize for not citing any sources for my calculations, if anyone feels like correcting or corroboration my numbers I would welcome it.

tl;dr: Inferno Totems should have an individual 100% drop rate, please be humane SE.

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Besides totem, you can get a full drop sometimes if you have the inferno lamp.
Though, not being able to give the weapon to someone if you have it already via drop list is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Noir

Besides totem, you can get a full drop sometimes if you have the inferno lamp.
Though, not being able to give the weapon to someone if you have it already via drop list is ridiculous.

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I don't mind a low drop rate but the work needs to = the reward. And if I get a duplicate weapon and I cannot give it to someone else in my party that is extremely frustrating.

I like the idea of the totems, I can do the fight over and over and work slowly towards the reward I want. Any duplicate weapon drops that come to me apparently turn into the totem token as I leave and that is fine, but if an item my sister wants drops and I don't want it I should damn well be able to pass it to her.

I was already fed up with the drop rate that is purely dependent on your luck and not how you did in battle. I spent countless times killing Ifrit and only obtained a couple of weapon (the first one I got was after the 32nd win).

So I was very excited too when they announced they are introduing an item that can be exchange for a weapon and I new it that it will take a set number of that item to be able to exchange with the weapon of your choice.

BUT I did not think that SE would be so #$$##$ and make it another random drop AND it takes forever to kill Ifrit now!

Seriously SE...seriously.....

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Originally Posted by totallynotme

This is once again incorrect and you would know this if you had defeated Ifrit more than once after the patch.

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I have. A lot.

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Originally Posted by Sontawila

I was already fed up with the drop rate that is purely dependent on your luck and not how you did in battle. I spent countless times killing Ifrit and only obtained a couple of weapon (the first one I got was after the 32nd win).

So I was very excited too when they announced they are introduing an item that can be exchange for a weapon and I new it that it will take a set number of that item to be able to exchange with the weapon of your choice.

BUT I did not think that SE would be so #$$##$ and make it another random drop AND it takes forever to kill Ifrit now!

Seriously SE...seriously.....

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SE, you need to make cnj ress to be half cast time and 2min cool down because when someone drops at ifrit is practically wipe. It's much harder than now as we don't have chain spell and rebirth instant.

Takes many tries if someone fucks up , it's very frustrating. And someone always do. Either a healer dies or people gets cracked up, you ress and get blown too. Ress needs to be fast so you can reorganize. In. 30min fight, chances someone dies there are very high. Before patch, you could die and get ressed and organize again. Now, if someone dies ,chances are by the time you ress that person, you need a ress yourself. Frustrating...

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Originally Posted by Drex

whiners gonna whine.....

ok it's hard to get a primal weapon...as it should be!!!

With this patch you get the weapon you want, not a random one, wasn't it the point of the update....?

you guys can be sooo annoying......

Less QQ more pew pew

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Sad thing is it's easier to get a double meld wep that is almost or above ifrit wep, with half the effort -_-

It's really dumb that the drop rate on totem isn't 100%. EVERYONE should get one EVERY fight. 10 fights is plenty for getting 1 Ifrit weapon. 20 is way too much for getting 1 moogle weapon. It's nice that you can pass totems but you shouldn't be forced to just to make getting a weapon a not-retarded experience.

I'm 0/14 on moogle so far - but some people in my LS have got 2 weapons already .... fml
i have 3 nuts though

im guessing its roughly a 25% drop rate on nuts and totems

20-30 drops per weap on a 100% basis would be fine. Failing that, just make drops rarer and add a loot system. The reason given for not adding it in the first place was bullshit and barely anyone is opposed to the system.

whats the point of having a boss fight is you want 100% drops. special items like this should HARD to get not just because you want it. you dont go treasure hunting and find gold in every cave.

whine whine whine everyday on the forums, it too hard, it too easy, "i hate this game" then why do you even play or bother to.

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Takes many tries if someone fucks up , it's very frustrating.

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nothing to do with ifrit, ifrit does the same thing over and over its the people your dealing with

But they are not hard to get, they are easy as fuck to get but many people end up without the one they actually want and are then gimp without it. Nice one for entirely failing to understand the issue.