The endless battle - Tank attributes

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Oh, is this some weird form of soft doxing? Argue against your point of view and you'll out people as not being hardcore raiders? Should we quake in our boots?

::rolls eyes::

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Not really. You just that your "Tank" is not my "Tank". Your "good" Tank can sit on tank instance spamming your main enmity combo and won't matter. For your tank don't even matter all this discussion really. You fail to understand that your tank vision doesn't exist on end game.

With the changes to healers and the MND stat, if pentamelds make a "triumphant" return we will once again have this hot garbage system where certain jobs have to spend millions of gil for the ideal gear, be it prog bis or farm bis. I never want to go back to that crap again.

After all that was spoken on this current thread and among others across the forum I came to a conclusion.

Tank accessories in my opinion should be STR.


This might seem crazy at first be here are some of my reasons to this conclusion

First VIT as it is nowadays is not a main attribute for tanks because:
Once you hit some hard limit, more vit is useless.
All tanks abilities scale from STR(even healing scales from Attack Power!)

If STR was the main attribute on tanks accessories we could meld VIT like other jobs do, by my experience during raid progression is usual to some dps meld vit to stay alive, why can’t tanks do the same thing?

It would end all discussion about tank dps, square could just adjust the Attack Power per STR ratio.

Of course, if we had no vit from accessories Square could adjust base tank vit stats.

AS crazy as it sound, this leave us free to use anything like other jobs!

Editing main topic

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Oh, is this some weird form of soft doxing? Argue against your point of view and you'll out people as not being hardcore raiders? Should we quake in our boots?

::rolls eyes::

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It's because you constantly demonstrate a habit of speaking in the detriment (in terms of "everything's fine, you all need to stop whining lol") on things that apply to hardcore raiders despite not being a hardcore raider yourself.

I am personally all for the devs adding a reasonable amount of STR on all tank-locked accessories (i.e. at least 53 STR each, so that they're strictly better than 270 STR pieces after melds).

That said, just because this is the "simplest" fix (even the armchair game designers are suggesting this) doesn't mean this is the direction Square wants to take tanks.

Here's a link to another post I wrote with other possible alternatives. Mainly of note are suggestions two and three (since adding STR to tank accessories is the first thing that seems to come to everyone's mind): VIT boosting enmity, or locking tanks out of STR but giving other scaling benefits on accessories instead (mostly as a last resort if they simply refuse to let tank AP scale from right side gear moving forward).

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4270526

Ideally, I would want them to make VIT boost enmity, in addition to adding STR to tank accessories now that they're role locked.

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

It's because you constantly demonstrate a habit of speaking in the detriment (in terms of "everything's fine, you all need to stop whining lol") on things that apply to hardcore raiders despite not being a hardcore raider yourself.

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The thing is, the hardcore raiders adapt and move on. Even if every job were on par, one is going to be better in some niche circumstance for pushing content on day 1, and they're going to play it.

I'm pretty much the same as the original poster, played tanks since good old turn 5 and I agree over all with his assessment of how its been. that said.

I've got my Drk to 70 and completed all current available content, and I've got to say, tank classes just aren't as satisfying to play anymore. (I'm not talking class mechanics here I'm just talking numbers) like the OP said I don't wana be doing mega dps but i want to feel at least I'm contributing to the party and right now I feel like a meat shield and literally nothing more and can only for see this getting worse over time.

Personally think 3.0 (although convoluted in its explanation) had tank dps calculations right, vit was worth while and we was even a tad spoilt that we could switch a few for dps accessory's without hitting as hard as a dps. As it stands however, tanks feel like they hit like wet noodles, and there is NOTHING worse than getting a gear "upgrade" and going oooo look! MORE BLOODY HP THAT I DON'T NEED, and oooo! ZERO dps increase. These are sad times IMO. :(

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

But almost no boss in the game is designed like that. I don't even think most MMO bosses in general are designed like that, not counting ones that have an intentional mechanic accounting for such.

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TERA actually had quite a lot of those mechanics. It was referred to as secondary aggro as the boss would target the 2nd highest in aggro. Darkan in Sky Cruiser Endeavor Hard Mode (SCHM) had a specific mechanic that would target healers when they tried to ressurect a party member.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Tank DPS is the meta that *players* derived.
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It's players assuming the developers should play by the players' rules and not vice versa.

I doubt SE intends for a MT to just do 1 enmity combo in tank stance at the start of the fight and then rock DPS stance the rest of the fight. That's not tanking, that's not managing enmity. That's DPSing with using defensive cooldowns occasionally to lower your healing burden sometimes.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

SE's intends and pov are irrelevant to the meta. I don't care what they want me to do, I care about what I, and the people in my group can do.
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It's the dev's oversight if what they intend us to be able to do doesn't match what we can actually do, and it's on them to fix/change/leave it. I don't care if the devs don't want me to do zero enmity combo in the entire fight, but if I can get away with that then I will. I don't care if the devs don't want my group healers to spend half their casts on dps spells, but if they can then they will.

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The Meta is organically derived based on the mechanics and design of the game content...

What SE want, and what they design can be different things.
And that's what we're seeing now...

SE is enforcing their want regardless of how the design functions.


If they want to change the Meta, they have to change their design in a way that incentivizes players to work that way.

Would it not be easy to remove all STR from fending gear and make tanks damage scale 1.0 on VIT?

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Originally Posted by Naelle

Would it not be easy to remove all STR from fending gear and make tanks damage scale 1.0 on VIT?

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The easiest "solution" is the .45 str/vit they had going before, which puts them at about 80-85% attack power of a DPS, which is what they had before. The change itself makes no sense outside of SE wanting to move away from "The Tank is just a discount DPS" paradigm that's been present.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

The easiest "solution" is the .45 str/vit they had going before, which puts them at about 80-85% attack power of a DPS, which is what they had before. The change itself makes no sense outside of SE wanting to move away from "The Tank is just a discount DPS" paradigm that's been present.

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It makes sense in the fact that it's hard to balance two stats separately when they both depend on one stat.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

It makes sense in the fact that it's hard to balance two stats separately when they both depend on one stat.

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It's really not. you just adjust the numbers on one end if you feel either is too high.

Too much health this way? Adjust HP/Vit down. Too much attack power? Adjust one or both to .35, .25, etc etc.