Consolidating Warrior 4.0 Feedback Thread

Making berserk 90 sec cooldown would work. Since infuriate approaches 30 secs with trait. More like 40ish. Would actually work well.

Everyone, myself included, wants to get rid of Shake it Off because there's no situation where it's worthwhile. And, we all want Bloodbath back. I understand why we lost it since it was a cross class skill, but why not replace Shake it Off with our own version of Bloodbath?

Take care of two things at once and help out the healers by alleviating some of their stress.

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Originally Posted by Takamorisan

-Reduce Inner Release CD to 60 seconds

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Noooohohoho. 6 fell cleave+berserk every minute would be absurd. The amount of dps increase this would give is way too high. On top of the fact that this also buffs the cd of Infuriate leaving to even more fell cleaves through the remaining minute and further increases the dps of war. War is far from 2.0 level of terrible but this kind of dps increase would just shove warrior right back into must have OT status and that's not something anyone actually wants.

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Originally Posted by Eir_Z

Everyone, myself included, wants to get rid of Shake it Off

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I'm not a fan of the "delete x" meme because its lazy. Why not simply buff Shake if Off instead? Make it have a Hallowed Ground-type effect that blocks 100% of all detrimental statuses for like 10s. This would actually be useful, as you could pop it for TBs that would require a swap due to vulnerability ups and bypass them. It wouldn't mitigate any damage per se, but that would still be really useful.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

I'm not a fan of the "delete x" meme because its lazy. Why not simply buff Shake if Off instead? Make it have a Hallowed Ground-type effect that blocks 100% of all detrimental statuses for like 10s. This would actually be useful, as you could pop it for TBs that would require a swap due to vulnerability ups and bypass them. It wouldn't mitigate any damage per se, but that would still be really useful.

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Yeah it didn't need to be deleted like we have 1 less skill but might as well be because it needs to be completely changed and probably re named so it might as well be deleted.

I'm starting to think unchained needs to just be completely replaced. Its not nearly as useful as Inner Release is. Maybe unchained could be our blood bath since it is helpful in terms of recovery/mitigation. There's no reason to be able to use bloodbath while in DPS stance. This would actually balance it well. Unchained as it is right now isn't all that useful. Obviously unchained would need renamed... It doesn't have to be bloodbath though, let the dps keep that name. Give ours a different name and a different feel to it, maybe the lower our HP is the stronger the HP gain from an attack or something.

Oh, and stance dance beast gauge loss needs to go or be lowered to a 10-20 flat rate. I can accept 10-20 to discourage it slightly but half is stupid.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Why not simply buff Shake if Off instead?

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I'd like to see Shake It Off changed to consume 50 Beast Gauge, give you an 8 second buff that makes you immune to all the status effects it currently cleanses, and then when it expires, you get the 50 Gauge back.

That would give it a number of interesting uses:

- Use it to 'hide' 50 Gauge from a stance swap, to facilitate swapping.
- Use it before an IR/Berserk, to let you stack some extra Gauge into your IR window
-Use it right before IR expires, so you can spend 25 Gauge to get 50 back

I'm not sure how much mileage you can really get out of the skill without letting you use it to remove unremovable effects, but there's plenty of room for extra Gauge manipulation tools on WAR.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

I'm not a fan of the "delete x" meme because its lazy. Why not simply buff Shake if Off instead? Make it have a Hallowed Ground-type effect that blocks 100% of all detrimental statuses for like 10s. This would actually be useful, as you could pop it for TBs that would require a swap due to vulnerability ups and bypass them. It wouldn't mitigate any damage per se, but that would still be really useful.

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I have personally thrown this skill of my toolbars. If it was a lower level skill I would not mind it working like you say, but imho a lvl68 skill should be a good and useful skill from day one, not something they have to remove since they just threw some random crap on a class and called it a day. I have said it before and will say it again, I do not understand how this skill made it into the game, let alone survived the meeting during which it was first mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

I have personally thrown this skill of my toolbars. If it was a lower level skill I would not mind it working like you say, but imho a lvl68 skill should be a good and useful skill from day one, not something they have to remove since they just threw some random crap on a class and called it a day. I have said it before and will say it again, I do not understand how this skill made it into the game, let alone survived the meeting during which it was first mentioned.

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This exacty. Jt is a 68 skill that has zero use at end game, thats a huge problem and should never be the case. I could maybe see if it was like a lvl 10 skill but its not.

Jojarth's idea on reworking Inner Release gave me an idea as well. Instead of halving beast gauge cost, it could grant +20 gauge on all TP costing abilities instead. Adds a whole new dimension to game play by allowing abilities that normally do not generate gauge to do so.

In any case, I would also echo what others have said and have Inner Release and Unchained be on different recast timers OR have them share the same recast, but on a lower CD. On top of this, I would add a buff to both of them that lets you ignore the stance dance penalty while any of these buffs are running.

I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring, too.

- Allow Heavy Swing to generate gauge. This would help with fluidity in resource generation. Currently, gauge generation feels staggered and...jerky, for a lack of better words.

- Change Onslaught to cost no gauge. Change it so that you can't use it when right next to the mob, and allow it to generate 20 gauge. This way WAR has a gap-closer that gives it a head-start on resource generation at the beginning of a fight (likewise, it gets a small boost in generating gauge on fights with multiple targets or big telegraphs that require the tank to run away from the mob). Might also help alleviate the fact that Infuriate cannot be used out of combat. You lose an oGCD skill, but that can be dealt with in other ways.

- Unify Steel Cyclone and Decimate. The lv60 WAR ability should not be a copy of Steel Cyclone with higher potency, and all of Decimate's properties can be baked into Steel Cyclone upon getting Deliverance. In addition, this opens up a slot for a new lv60 ability, or allows for Decimate to be repurposed (like, say, into an oGCD skill that consumes gauge).

- Buff Shake It Off. I'm of the opinion that this skill should be the WAR's status removal tool. I'm tempted to suggest giving SIO a bonus for using it to remove status ailments. Could be something like a short-duration damage boost, a decrease in damage taken for a short time, or generating some gauge. The downside to this, though, is that it would encourage WARs to stand in stuff they're not supposed to.

Non-sequitur:

Re: Stances

My feelings on this are well-known, but I can give suggestions on the matter.

- Remove stance bonuses: This mostly applies to Defiance, which means WARs would lose the extra HP and extra healing received. If nothing else, this is to emphasize that stances are meant to determine how your other skills work rather than being about survivability.
- More skills that work differently between stances: This shouldn't be limited just to Inner Beast/Fell Cleave/Steel Cyclone/Decimate. The Equilibrium approach should be used for a lot more MRD/WAR skills (Berserk, Vengeance, Maim, and Storm's Path come to mind).
- Facilitate stance changes: If this is really the direction we need to go, then WAR needs a skill that does something and switches the stances. Use skill while in Defiance, mob receives some effect and you're now in Deliverance (and vice versa).
- Tie mitigation to combo bonuses: If we remove the extra HP and healing from Defiance, we need to put that mitigation back in through other means. I'd suggest combo bonuses when used in Defiance grant stuff like increased HP healed, reduces damage taken by a percentage, and so on.

In short, you can have your free stance swaps, but the core of how WAR plays would need what I consider major changes. And needless to say, numbers would have to be balanced around a PLD full-timing Shield Oath.

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Originally Posted by TheFanciestBard

Noooohohoho. 6 fell cleave+berserk every minute would be absurd. The amount of dps increase this would give is way too high. On top of the fact that this also buffs the cd of Infuriate leaving to even more fell cleaves through the remaining minute and further increases the dps of war. War is far from 2.0 level of terrible but this kind of dps increase would just shove warrior right back into must have OT status and that's not something anyone actually wants.

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War has no raid utility. Way more dps is exactly what it HAS to have to be wanted in any group. Even se said so themselves when talking about why sam dps is higher, it's because the only thing they have is slashing same as war. War is the sam of tanks that doesn't do anymore damage than the other way easier to play ones. That is the biggest problem war has right now.

- Keep Stance penalty for now
- Upgrade Thrill of Battle to Thrill of War
- Address Unchained somehow

WAR needs utility more than anything.

As a WAR main since patch 2.45, I hate the current stance penalty for switching on Warrior.

Outside of unlucky / poor management of Inner Release, why is it possible to end up with a gauge value that is not a multiple of 10, given that WAR can only generate and spend gauge in increments of 10 (again ignoring Inner Release)?

i.e. Build gauge to 30, switch stances, and you now have 15 gauge. You can't spend that 5 gauge on anything, so you're effectively losing 20 gauge from that swap. If you then switch once more, it drops to 8(!), which might as well be zero as far as our gauge spenders are concerned.

Regardless of what other changes they make to Warrior from 4.05 onward, this issue needs to be addressed ASAP.

It's clunky, it's not fun, and it goes against their Stormblood mantra of simplifying core job mechanics.

Unpopular Opinion Time

Having thought about it a bit, I think I would be okay with WAR's stance change being on the GCD(!) and costing a fixed amount of TP (100?) rather than the current cost of halving our gauge. This would allow us to Inner Beast from Deliverance two GCDs out without losing any gauge. This would be a predictable and fixed cost, as with PLD and DRK stance changing. You could still switch stances between pulls in dungeons without much cost, similar to PLD and DRK, while still impacting you mid-pull. This would force WARs to think about when and how to use Equilibrium (do I use it to make up for the stance swap TP loss, or take the TP hit to regain health?). Finally, it would continue to dissuade WARs from repeatedly stance dancing.

While this would make stance dancing on WAR a bit clunky, I personally feel that the current iteration of the stance swapping penalty is even worse.

However, given that Shield Oath and Grit each give PLD and DRK an immediate defensive benefit unlike Defiance where the extra max HP granted needs to be healed to become relevant for mitigation, I would also be happy leaving WAR stance switching off the GCD, but incurring a larger TP penalty (150 TP per swap?).

I'll repost what I posted deep into another warrior thread a while back.

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Onslaught (while really fun to use!) is just stupidly designed, and that stupid design influences everyone's ideas of how it should be balanced as well. Like brutal swing('s replacement) is now, it should have no place in any rotation. It is a very thematic reactionary movement ability that should be used to let the warrior hurl himself across the battlefield at will.


I would change it in the following way:
- No cost. A BG cost on a reactionary ability screws up the rotation and it's worthless in any serious content even if you did make up the immediate potency loss.
- Same(ish) cooldown.
- Make the damage miniscule, like 40. I'd say none, but the animation indicates at least some damage. The next point deals with this.
- A minimum range (6 yalms?). This prevents that 40 dmg from having any effect on your rotation, which the devs rather stupidly tried to solve with the BG cost. No one is going to take the time to run back and zoom in again for 40 potency. The range can be adjusted to insure it would always be a loss.

There you go, now the warrior has a thematic charge ability that is only used for movement instead of a useless ability just sitting on the hotbar annoying us. That's Shake It Off's job! Bonus, it can be used to charge INTO combat! And maybe even give back some of the Warrior feel you bungled up so badly in 4.0.

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Originally Posted by jojarth

Inner Release: This skill is twofold, it’s exciting to get, but it also makes me angry. This skill is responsible for the “6 Fel Cleaves” thing, which is amazing but should NOT be the cornerstone of our DPS. If I was trying to balance this, I would make this skill a little different. Like many people suggested, I think it should no longer share a cooldown with Unchained. I think the effect needs to be different too. I would make it so that either the next Gauge spending attack recovers gauge equal to what it would have spent, instead of halves it, or that the next gauge spending attack doesn’t use gauge. Then add an HP recovery on attacks (like the old bloodbath) for the duration as well. Again, the goal here would be to make warriors DPS higher, but also rely less on the 6 fel cleave dream.

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I definitely agree with you about Inner Release. Six Fell Cleaves are overrated, and I am beginning to find it overused and stale.

The reason I found Fell Cleave exciting throughout 3.x was because I couldn't use it all the time, so when I did drop three of them in berserk (roughly every ninety seconds), it felt good, it felt strong, and it felt meaningful.

Inner Release has stripped those feelings about Fell Cleave away for me. Between the new beast gauge and IR, WAR can now pump out ten berserked Fell Cleaves every two minutes, which severely diluted my enjoyment in using Fell Cleave.

The following has been said before, but I'm going to reiterate it again because it's so important.

Unchained and Inner Release should not share a recast timer.

Otherwise, you might as well have Inner Release replace Unchained entirely at level 70.

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Now that that's out of the way, I had an idea for reworking Inner Release which would still work with its awesome animation.

While thinking of ways to rework Inner Release to remove the chore that is hexacleave, I was reminded of Mighty Strikes from FFXI, Warrior's two-hour ability that gave them 100% crit rate.

Inner Release
Increases critical hit rate to 100%.
Duration: 10s.
Recast: 120s. (180s with higher duration?)

Alternatively:

Inner Release
Increases direct hit rate to 100%.
Duration: 20s.
Recast: 120s.

This would likely be a nerf to WAR's burst AOE damage, as IR theoretically allows for six Decimates if needed.

It might just be me, but I personally haven't found a good fight or place to use hexadecimate yet, so I don't know if I would miss the ability to do so.

Also, while I haven't mathed out the potencies to see what the numbers would have to be on these alternate versions to not be a DPS loss, I think the concept is an interesting possible direction to investigate.

Keep these things in mind when you make your suggestions:

The stance swap cost is there to prevent you from going from tanking in defiance, directly into 6x fell cleaves and back. They designed themselves into a corner with this one. However it needs to be solved because the stance swap penalty feels like crap.

Infuriate outside of combat means you will always start every combat with 100 beast gauge. This is a hamfisted "fix" for their implementation of the new permanent gauge. Either come up with a solution better than 'allow it's use in combat' or find a new way to pull in raids. It isn't really a problem in normal content.

The objective of your suggestions should be to unclunk the warrior again, not try to balance the job in detail (potencies etc). Make the warrior fun/more warriory again before worrying about potencies, that's for the second pass and to be done with developers with spreadsheets. What isn't fun now that was fun before. This is how this ability could be more fun. This is something the warrior lacks now.

Things like "create a new skill, Shake it off sucks" is not gonna happen. Things need to keep their animations, sounds, icons etc because those things take a lot more team coordination than a coder tweaking some values or writing a new method. Find a way to change what we got.

Random thoughts about the new WAR.

- Stance swap penalty feels awful, like really bad, for anyone that was used to the fluid warrior of old. A flat cost is bad because to removes any skill from the equation and punishes the wrong end of the problem imo. You wanted to avoid the situation where you can switch from defiance to deliverance and unload the whole gauge, you applied this cost as a fix. Now you're punishing things like switching from deliverance to defiance and using IB because you need mitigation suddenly when the MT died. Keep the halving of the gauge, but never reduce to below 50. This prevents the tanking into hexacleave, but gives a lot of room for switching easily. OR just accept that 20 sec hexacleave while tanking is just fine and remove the penalty altogether (would feel the best). Potencies and BG costs can always be adjusted after you make WAR fun again.

- Staying in deliverance all the time is better now and it seems like that's what you want. But no one else wants that. Tanking is too easy because you have to make it easy enough to faceroll your way through content or bad tanks won't be able to progress. The only way we have to improve is to stance dance to optimize our dps. Now it's still possible, you have to take the swap cost into account, which is harder (good?) but it feels bad (real bad, for everyone not just the optimizers). So that option is only for the spreadsheet-crunching emotionless robots at the 99th percentile imo.

- Warrior should have a unique role. Let us be the dps tank at cost of utility (we have none now that NIN and SAM apply their own slashing debuff and DRG sucks causing the end to the piercing meta). This is our identity, don't homogenize the tanks so we're all the same with different skins because it's easier to balance for you. You are hurting your own game by taking the easy route. Balance it by giving more utility to the other tanks so they are better in other situations.

- Inner release and Unchained have VASTLY different power levels. When you make them share their cooldown, one of them might as well be removed from the game (or you hamfistedly prevent people from changing stance like you did). Unlink their cooldowns or make Unchained competitive. It isn't bad, it's just a bit dull and outshined by the giant hexacleave.

- Stuns etc that used to have potencies should remain potency-less. It was a good change. They should be used to stun, not be an oGCD in your rotation. However it's removal from the rotation should be compensated. There is a lot of feeling that WAR took a step back instead of forwards because we lost so much and our new stuff is lackluster.

- Hexacleave, which promising on paper, turns out to be a bad direction to take WAR. It changes our fluid think-on-your-feet stance dancing job into a plan-ahead job. The two minutes between the big payout is rigid and kinda 'meh' now. It also requires a 20 sec uninterrupted window to apply it as well and the punishment for having to do mechanics in that window is severe. At least we don't lose our buildup by phase transitions like the new DRG.

- Keep the 3 combos, they seem fine and each have their unique roles. Tank, buff, dps.

- Shake it off does nothing because it barely works on anything and esuna already exists and healers need to watch for debuffs for everyone else anyway. Make it do something worth pushing the button.

- Make Onslaught usable like I mentioned in a previous post. I'll quote it again for completeness.

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Onslaught (while really fun to use!) is just stupidly designed, and that stupid design influences everyone's ideas of how it should be balanced as well. Like brutal swing('s replacement) is now, it should have no place in any rotation. It is a very thematic reactionary movement ability that should be used to let the warrior hurl himself across the battlefield at will.

I would change it in the following way:
- No cost. A BG cost on a reactionary ability screws up the rotation and it's worthless in any serious content even if you did make up the immediate potency loss.
- Same(ish) cooldown.
- Make the damage miniscule, like 40. I'd say none, but the animation indicates at least some damage. The next point deals with this.
- A minimum range (6 yalms?). This prevents that 40 dmg from having any effect on your rotation, which the devs rather stupidly tried to solve with the BG cost. No one is going to take the time to run back and zoom in again for 40 potency. The range can be adjusted to insure it would always be a loss.

There you go, now the warrior has a thematic charge ability that is only used for movement instead of a useless ability just sitting on the hotbar annoying us. That's Shake It Off's job! Bonus, it can be used to charge INTO combat! And maybe even give back some of the Warrior feel you bungled up so badly in 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Rhyn

About Onslaught.

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Why should our gapcloser have a potency of 40 if it had no cost?
The reason why I ask is because DRK have one with a 30sec recast that has 200 in potency, so why should our that we gain at a higher level be worse?

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Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

Why should our gapcloser have a potency of 40 if it had no cost?
The reason why I ask is because DRK have one with a 30sec recast that has 200 in potency, so why should our that we gain at a higher level be worse?

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Because making these abilities high enough potency to be part of a rotation (oGCD spam) is not good design. Then you will not have them when you need to use them as they're intended. It is the DRK ability that is poorly designed, not mine (assuming it's oGCD, I'm not familiar). *edit* Some quick googling reveals that Plunge is indeed used as oGCD spam so it also needs the minimum range treatment.

But you're right I guess, it is probably possible to make their potency decent when you have the minimum range to prevent making them a oGCD spam ability. If you make it too high you'll have people running out to charge back in again as part of their rotation though.

Make onslaught cost no beast gauge and have no potency. Not every skill needs to have a potency to fullfill its purpose. I thought SE knew this when they stripped the potency from stuns/silences

What if Onslaught could aggro mobs you charged through along your path (within melee range around you)?

So, a group approaches and you pick the rear one and dash through the group, picking them all up.

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Originally Posted by Rhyn

Because making these abilities high enough potency to be part of a rotation (oGCD spam) is not good design. Then you will not have them when you need to use them as they're intended. It is the DRK ability that is poorly designed, not mine (assuming it's oGCD, I'm not familiar). *edit* Some quick googling reveals that Plunge is indeed used as oGCD spam so it also needs the minimum range treatment.

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If it had zero cost in beast then yes I would use it oGCD whenever there was no reason to save it, most of us would save it if we needed to pick something up with it. Personally I see no problem with allowing WAR to use said skill whenever it is off cooldown for zero cost in beast gauge, it would be our one and only oGCD offensive skill that cost no resources.

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Originally Posted by Baci

Make onslaught cost no beast gauge and have no potency. Not every skill needs to have a potency to fullfill its purpose. I thought SE knew this when they stripped the potency from stuns/silences

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In that case I would rather see them make this a role skill and give us something else instead.

Shake it Off, either needs to be a low level ability (for it to be useful, at least during levelling up), or be completely changed to match the "high end" skill it is today (maybe make the user impervious to status ailments for like 5-10 sec, REALLY impervious, think Hallowed Ground, but for status ailments).

Right now, useless ... Period.

Onslaught really isn't as bad as some think. It's still a DPS gain if you're far off the boss because it's an oGCD and doesn't cut into your beast gauge accumulation unlike Fell Cleave.

So upheaval is a good ability in Defiance, and Square is penalizing stance dancing so I offer the following 6 changes to increase dps in both stances and serve as QOL improvements while conforming to the structure that square is trying to create in 4.x tanking:
Berserk: Also resets CD of Upheaval, penalty to stance change is removed while Berserk is active
Upheaval: During Berserk becomes GCD ability with beast cost of 50
Fel Cleave: Potency is 550 while berserk
Infuriate: Usable outside Combat
Onslaught: Increases potency of next Beast Gauge spender by 150 if spender is used in different stance
Shake it off: Status Immune during Defiance

The Idea is to incentivize staying in Defiance while MT making upheaval a replacement for fel cleave spam in Defiance, not punish tank swaps during berserk window, Allow WAR to start battles with 50 gauge. Onslaught helps ease the cost of switching stances. This also reinforces tank stance for MT similarly to how divine spirit works in shield oath for pal, while leaving option for stance dance.

Transform Shake it off into SHAKE IT HARD:
Triple/Double the cost of your next beast gauge consumming weapon skill/JA and makes it deal triple/double damage in delivrance or effect in defiance

The idea is to :
- avoid spending 6 GCD doing Fell Cleave, as side effect you will start to rebuild gauge sooner
- make your Inner Beast even greater, reward for anticipating high damage

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Originally Posted by Irimor

Infuriate: Usable outside Combat

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One of the greatest things they've achieved this expansion is negating the need for any job to require more than 10 seconds to prepare for a pull. Should stay the same, but should activate quicker when the party engages in combat.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

Onslaught really isn't as bad as some think. It's still a DPS gain if you're far off the boss because it's an oGCD and doesn't cut into your beast gauge accumulation unlike Fell Cleave.

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I've seen a convincing argument to use it during berserk if you don't have Inner Release up, but I'm not sure if it's optimal.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

One of the greatest things they've achieved this expansion is negating the need for any job to require more than 10 seconds to prepare for a pull. Should stay the same, but should activate quicker when the party engages in combat.

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I'll also add that I agree with this. Infuriate outside of combat was nice but I don't really want to go back to waiting 40 seconds between each pull.

Bring back Bloodbath and turn it into a toggleable "Darkside-like" skill for Warriors that gives a small damage increase while healing with every hit, but creates a dynamic bleeding effect that gets exponentially stronger the more time you're clipping or not running a GCD.

Smooth out the stance swapping by either removing the guage penalty and keeping the GCD lock, or removing the GCD lock and keeping the penalty.

Rework or remove Shake it off

Reduce Onslaught guage costs.

Implement #deletewar memes

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Originally Posted by Poison_Rose

I've seen a convincing argument to use it during berserk if you don't have Inner Release up, but I'm not sure if it's optimal.

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It's not optimal in most situations to use, but Fell Cleave is basically only 2% stronger due to the fact that you're not building Beast Gauge while using it. That 2% essentially diminishes if you can use it to return back to the enemy before losing significant GCD uptime. Also, it's nice having an ability that can dump some excess Beast Gauge before changing stances and knowing that's it's actually not that much weaker than Fell Cleave.

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Originally Posted by Irimor

Berserk: Also resets CD of Upheaval, penalty to stance change is removed while Berserk is active
Upheaval: During Berserk becomes GCD ability with beast cost of 50

...The Idea is to incentivize staying in Defiance while MT making upheaval a replacement for fel cleave spam in Defiance

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Unless I'm doing something wrong, Upheaval is not that powerful (at lv65, Fel Cleave's hitting for about 6-7K, while Upheaval is hitting in the 2-3K territory). I don't think increase the cost to 50 gauge is justified. I'd suggest having Berserk double the cost to 40 gauge (100 gauge => pop Berserk => Upheaval x2 => Infuriate => 1-2 combo => Upheaval x2).

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Infuriate: Usable outside Combat

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You'd have to increase the cooldown to 120 or 180s if you want to go in this direction. Otherwise you'd have a group sitting around for 3 minutes so that their WAR starts the fight with 100 gauge AND have Infuriate available when the mob is pulled.

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Onslaught: Increases potency of next Beast Gauge spender by 150 if spender is used in different stance

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Not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, you can plan to boost your next spender before/after a tank swap. On the other, I can see room for abuse.

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Shake it off: Status Immune during Defiance

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Agree.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Upheaval is not that powerful (at lv65, Fel Cleave's hitting for about 6-7K, while Upheaval is hitting in the 2-3K territory).

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Upheaval is fine. The more max hp you have the more damage it does so tank stance and thrill buff it, play around with that and you will see some nice numbers.
All in all I would say that this is the one skill that does not need to be changed.

The most pressing things I can think of are that the stance dancing penalty needs to be either reduced or removed, and that Butcher's Block should give as much beast gauge as Path does. The way it is now encourages spamming the Path combo when one should be (ideally) spamming BB while main tanking. A questionable design decision if I've ever seen one.

What is even the point of the dance penalty? Was there anything wrong with spending my 5 stacks on Decimate instead of Steel Cyclone while tanking huge packs?

My entire feedback can be found here

tl;dr

Changes I would implement

• Remove cost of stance swapping
• Storms Eye now generates 20 Gauge
• Storms Path now generates 10 Gauge
• Storms Path now reduces target damage dealt by 5% for 10s
• Infuriate is now usable out of combat
• Beast Gauge depletes by 5 every 5 seconds when out of combat
• Onslaught Aggro Modifier halved
• Onslaught CD increased to 30s
• Onslaught now generates 10 Beast Gauge, using it does not cost Beast Gauge.

WAR is missing out on a lot of utility. Returning a weaker Storms Path to the kit would make the class more viable in 8 man content.

To ensure that Path is not being overused, the extra Gauge generation should be given to Eye.

Generating stacks between pulls is not a bad thing. However, to make sure WARs dont keep the group waiting for a minute to generate 100 Gauge, it should fall off before Infuriate is back up again.

Onslaught needs to be improved imho, its lackluster compared to Plunge. I consider those changes good enough as a combat initiator and extra Gauge generator.

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

Butcher's Block should give as much beast gauge as Path does. The way it is now encourages spamming the Path combo when one should be (ideally) spamming BB while main tanking. A questionable design decision if I've ever seen one.

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I see this a lot, but the whole point is to make you do worse damage while tanking. Halone and Power Slash suck too. The enmity minigame is seeing how few hate combos you can get away with (through use of shirk, shadewalker, diversion, etc) while maintaining enmity.

With Onslaught, I'm starting to get used to it once I'm in battle. The potency of Onslaught seems fine.

However, there's still the outstanding issue of not being able to use it on a fresh pull. Why can't we charge into combat with our new gap closer?! D:

It feels bad not being able to do so, regardless of whether or not this would be optimal.

On DRK, you don't want to Plunge pull because of the animation lock. That doesn't seem to be an issue with Onslaught, on top of it having a meaty enmity boost, which would make sense to use while pulling as WAR.

IMO, it doesn't need to generate gauge, and the 20 gauge cost in combat is fine.

I just want to be able to open my pulls as WAR with Tomahawk -> Onslaught -> Equilibrium from zero beast gauge.

I'm not sure how this could be implemented such that it would still cost 20 gauge in combat, because if its cost were reduced to 0 outside of combat, then using Tomahawk first would prevent us from charging in afterward.

Similarly, I miss being able to use Unchained pre-pull.

In addition to removing its shared cooldown with Inner Release, if the devs seem intent on preventing us from using Infuriate or building gauge outside of combat, I would like to see Unchained changed somehow such that it becomes usable while outside of combat at zero gauge, allowing us to use it pre-pull without delaying Inner Release due to the 20 gauge cost.

While typing this out, I just thought of a possible solution, which could address the above concerns I have about both Onslaught and Unchained right now.

Tomahawk
Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 130.
Additional Effect: Increased enmity
While under the effect of Defiance, increases Beast Gauge by 20 when used from outside of combat.

i.e. If you're in Defiance, pulling with Tomahawk from out of combat would give you enough gauge to use either Onslaught or Unchained immediately.

While a bit clunky for Onslaught, because you won't be able to gap close immediately, this would kill two birds with one stone by also allowing WARs to open with Unchained, similar to the way we used to prior to 4.0.

It could be used to generate 10 free gauge by immediately swapping to Deliverance, but I don't see that being overly helpful compared with spending the 20 gauge on Onslaught/Upheaval/Unchained.

Another possible pitfall with this implementation is that you could just spend the 20 gauge on Upheaval instead, which is already more useful while in Defiance.

Alternatively, the wording might be awkward to tease out, but if you're worried about giving WAR free gauge or Upheavals every pull, Tomahawk from out of combat could combo into Onslaught and Unchained (but not Inner Release), reducing their beast gauge cost to 0. This would allow the same possibility, while preventing players from ignoring both abilities to use either Upheaval or gain free gauge instead.

Please consider such a change.

Theoretically, with the combo variant change, you could remove the out-of-combat requirement, but I added that stipulation to prevent situations where you might want to Tomahawk while in melee range with enemies just for the free Unchained or (less likely) Onslaught.

Make "Overpower" generate 10 Gauge so that we actually get to use "Steel Cyclone"/"Decimate"

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...19#post4284919

My thoughts.