It's time they changed weekly tomes to include different jobs

Raid loot restriction should also be class-based as well. I don't see the harm in allowing players more options. If a player had time and could afford to, he could try to raid with different classes and gear up all of them. Don't just allow us to play all classes on a single character and then limit our gear progression at the highest level.

Signed. I would actually play my tanks and healers instead of just my main two dps if this were a thing.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

If they don't want us to burn out, keep 3 separate weekly caps for tank, healer, and dps. Then increase the reward from each run so that you cap each job faster. And give adventurer in need an increased tome reward.

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and each will have a weekly cap of 150 (450 in total).
And why giving adventures in need an increased tome reward if tomes are not part of adventure in need reward in first place? Even a single tome will be already an increase.

Unfortunately, if they ever made a change like this, it completely invalidates many other methods of obtaining gear-- in a game where we already lack said options.

- Crafted gear dies off significantly faster
- There is literally no purpose for 24 man gear drops
- 8 man normal mode raids drop off significantly faster

Basically, they don't want us gearing up each individual job too quickly. I do think a case could be made for increasing the tomestone cap to say, 900 per week. The devs, however, won't open it to a weekly job restriction for the reasons above.

Know what signed this could incentavise people to do other jobs allow the dungeons to reward a little for tank and healer if your a dps to help gear up but if you want to focus it then you have to play as that class to gear it up so say dungeons have 10 on each tomes roulette gives a bonus 50 to the class tome your using

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Originally Posted by Orbiaus

Let them complain. The system we have now doesn't benefit multiple jobs at all.

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GOOD.
You are supposed to choose and have one "main".

Hell, in other MMOs you have to level another character to even get access to a different class. If your off specs are behind by 10-20 item levels, it won't kill you. Content is not designed with full tome gear in mind, because SE knows that it takes months to acquire, as such you are NOT undergeared for raids on off specs.

-case closed-

Just to provide numbers.

It requires 6,385 tomestones to fully acquire gear through this means only. That is approximately fourteen weeks, which happens to coincide with the expected release of 4.1 (October 17th-24th). By this point, they will be releasing entirely new gear obtainable in the 24 man raid. If, however, you raid. You will obtain higher level gear significantly faster, thus allowing you to focus on alt jobs. Something to keep in mind is few statics will want their members abruptly changing roles. Your Bard, for instance, wouldn't randomly decide to switch over to Dragoon on a whim. People tend to stay in their respective roles for progression. So it's often a moot point anyway. The breakdown here is the devs want to reward raiders while simultaneously keeping us subscribed. If I could apply those 6,385 tomestones across Warrior, Dark Knight, Paladin, White Mage, Scholar, Astro, Samurai, Monk and Dragoon. Well, I don't have much reason to stay subbed after finishing what 4.1 has to offer do I?

Now if you don't raid, none of this even matters. There is no content outside Savage that remotely rewards tomestone gear. Not even EX Primals. Granted, they make those fights easier but crafted and normal mode Omega gear will be more than viable. In fact, I went through Creator Savage with a Sophia spear. I can't remember if I even upgraded it before clearing A12S my first time. Either way, don't worry too much about it. If you're pugging Savage or have a static that clears fast. Just use whatever gear is available. It'll do you just fine.

If you want to cap tomes on another job you pretty much have to treat it like other MMOs, create a 2nd character and lvl it from scratch 1-70 and do your 2nd cap from there.

I don't know about 450 for each job, however the idea of 450 per role (dps/tank/healer) would be a good alternative. However not letting them mix

Perhaps it's because I've not cared enough to try to cap tomes after Brayflox Nonstop for Soldiery drove everyone crazy, but is it just me or is the verity tome gear so much cheaper than old top tomestone gear?

I even noticed a 9 sticker reward with Wondrous Tails last week was 100 Verity, and feel like roulettes are giving out more than pre-Stormblood.

Capping is suddenly easier, and I can purchase the gear I want at a good pace. Even the 70 quest loaded me up with great gear and I'm loaded with materia so getting my stats where I needed them for Omega was done in a day. That is a very new sensation for my casual self.

Am I really the only one who feels that way? That getting good gear is so much easier than before?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

we will maybe get the new cap of 900 tomes a week you know? it was changed near the end of HW, and even before HW the caps was changed but conserved after all.

the point of 900 tomes it allows to have a decent gear for a jobs in 5 week then who know.

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It was also increased to 900 at the end of ARR, granted for not as long. There was also the fact that the 900 cap coincided with the unlocking of Creator, it made no sense to keep Scripture capped to such a low amount with the other avenue of i270 gear being so quick.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Perhaps it's because I've not cared enough to try to cap tomes after Brayflox Nonstop for Soldiery drove everyone crazy, but is it just me or is the verity tome gear so much cheaper than old top tomestone gear?

I even noticed a 9 sticker reward with Wondrous Tails last week was 100 Verity, and feel like roulettes are giving out more than pre-Stormblood.

Capping is suddenly easier, and I can purchase the gear I want at a good pace. Even the 70 quest loaded me up with great gear and I'm loaded with materia so getting my stats where I needed them for Omega was done in a day. That is a very new sensation for my casual self.

Am I really the only one who feels that way? That getting good gear is so much easier than before?

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They always do that before the new tomestones come in, so it's easier for people to reach the original endgame content. All that will change once those come in. We'll go back to the old 450 a week, 875 for a chestpiece we're used to.

It would be nice to not have arbitrary bullshit caps slapped on to the important stuff, but we all know at the end of the day it all boils down to player retention.

Note that the devs gives absolute zero shits about eating up your time. Their job is to get you in and keep you in by any means necessary. Period. Something that might take an offline game 10 seconds to finish will take this game 10 days. Caps? Check. RNG? Check. Grind? Check. Mat gathering? Check. Crafting fails at 78% so you have to repeat the process all over again? Check. Almost every single aspect of the game is like this.

That's just how it's been and will always be. MMO life is hard life. If it sounds good, keep playing. If it doesn't, escape while you still can. lol

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Originally Posted by Granyala

GOOD.
You are supposed to choose and have one "main".

Hell, in other MMOs you have to level another character to even get access to a different class. If your off specs are behind by 10-20 item levels, it won't kill you. Content is not designed with full tome gear in mind, because SE knows that it takes months to acquire, as such you are NOT undergeared for raids on off specs.

-case closed-

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Because the damn game pushes you to 'all in one'. that makes no sense whatsoever. some people I know actually make alts just to do what ops been asking. people get burnt out anyways, games a themepark. it takes months to fully gear up one job. just do it by 'roles' at least ppl will stay and play a little longer. as bourne said, 14 weeks, 4.1 will be around the corner anyways so there still will be ppl waiting on that.
again, if worried about subs, do roles only.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

No, you would effectively triple the cap.

If you were allowed to get 450 tomes for each role, then you could (potentially) earn 1350 tomes a week.

The cap is there to prevent you from gearing too quickly. They want you to have to make a choice.

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No, you are still wrong. The cap would be tripled if, and only if you could spend ALL of those tomes on one role set of gear. By keeping a cap for each role (tank / healer / caster) you are still just as limited on how fast you can gear each role. The only difference is that you have more flexibility as the person you quoted and apparently didn't read said.

Personally what I would really like to see is MMO's abandoning this stupid currency/gear system and go back to hunting for actual unique drops from named monsters and dungeons/raids. I.E. like FFXI, EQ/2, and other MMO's. This procedurally generated gear that is all the same, just 1% more stats per tier, that you are guaranteed to get in X days if you put in Y effort is so soulless. I miss those special pieces of gear that you worked hard to get and felt special when you got it.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

Because the damn game pushes you to 'all in one'. that makes no sense whatsoever. some people I know actually make alts just to do what ops been asking. people get burnt out anyways, games a themepark. it takes months to fully gear up one job. just do it by 'roles' at least ppl will stay and play a little longer. as bourne said, 14 weeks, 4.1 will be around the corner anyways so there still will be ppl waiting on that.
again, if worried about subs, do roles only.

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That post outlined why allowing each role to have their own tomestone limit wouldn't work. I could effectively have nine jobs at the predicted 340 ilvl by the time they release 4.1. At that point, I wouldn't even bother touching roulettes while others would unsub entirely. Regardless, the game doesn't push you at all. Being able to play multiple jobs on a single character is a feature yes, but it was never intended you would "main" more than one or two. Besides, unless you do Savage, it doesn't matter whether you have ilvl 320-340. Nothing is going to hit hard enough where you will need BiS.

Another, perhaps more cynical, reason the devs won't open restrictions like those purposed here is once they do... they can't go back. Say they did the aforementioned "tomestone cap per role" idea tossed around and it led to more people taking breaks. They can't say in 4.2, "oh, we're going back to 450 because too many of you stopped paying us monthly." It's just not a risk worth taking for them. Now I do think upping the cap to 650-700 would be nice. That way you could get your body and legs within three weeks. But they won't ever do more than that.

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

soulless

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And here you hit the nail on the head. I fully agree with you. The trouble is people don't like to think for themselves and they prefer a system that does all the thinking for them.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

That post outlined why allowing each role to have their own tomestone limit wouldn't work. I could effectively have nine jobs at the predicted 340 ilvl by the time they release 4.1. At that point, I wouldn't even bother touching roulettes while others would unsub entirely. Regardless, the game doesn't push you at all. Being able to play multiple jobs on a single character is a feature yes, but it was never intended you would "main" more than one or two. Besides, unless you do Savage, it doesn't matter whether you have ilvl 320-340. Nothing is going to hit hard enough where you will need BiS.

Another, perhaps more cynical, reason the devs won't open restrictions like those purposed here is once they do... they can't go back. Say they did the aforementioned "tomestone cap per role" idea tossed around and it led to more people taking breaks. They can't say in 4.2, "oh, we're going back to 450 because too many of you stopped paying us monthly." It's just not a risk worth taking for them. Now I do think upping the cap to 650-700 would be nice. That way you could get your body and legs within three weeks. But they won't ever do more than that.

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I only mentioned you because of the weeks/months until the next main patch.
14 weeks to gear up ONE job, the next main patch will hit, so for SE's case, the subs will still be rolling either way.
You pay by month anyways, so if people kept doing it all until 4.1 they can sub again, and use the 24 man to gear up the other side jobs they may have.
What people are asking are for more flexibility. You're essentially still going at the same pace maybe a wee bit slower unless you no life lol.
I think it makes sense to everyone to have main per role. Say you're in a static, someone dips out, but you can replace that X role if need be.
It'll also make it easier to find replacements because it's harder when most people are stuck in a single job.
I think we have way too many jobs for these tomes to be locked anyways. I for one, think it needs to be abolished all together.
But SE is thinking about the money, they don't care if you get bored or not, just pay up lol.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

snip

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The flexibility you are asking for would allow you to gear nine jobs. You are neglecting only Dragoon and Ninja don't share their entire gear with another job in their respective roles. Were it changed so each role had their own individual tomestone cap, I could gear nine in the same time I now gear three. While I have other things I'd likely do, others may unsub since they have exhausted the content provided and have no use for the 24 man raid. I certainly wouldn't be queuing into roulettes very often. Why bother? All my tanks, healers and melee DPS would be ilvl 330. As for money, of course SE prioritizes money first. They are a business whose sole interest is keeping us subbed. Locking people into a weekly cap that forces them to choose a role to prioritize ensures many will remain subbed so as not to fall behind.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

The cap is there to prevent you from gearing too quickly. They want you to have to make a choice.

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My choice is generally to unsub due to how mind-numbing it is to grind the same exact content for months on end in order to slowly gear up multiple jobs instead of letting us gear more freely and play content we enjoy, on the jobs we enjoy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

lol I have no idea why people are so opposed to this idea. Even right now the class you got your omega gear with is already set to be your main unless you have a static that's ok with carrying you and is also good enough to do so. I play MCH and if I wanted to switch to another dps besides bard I actually just can't unless the group I'm with is content with me doing less damage than somebody else who used their omega drops on it.

I really like this idea but I see a major problem

You can earn the tomestones on multiple jobs, but the tomestones could be spent on anything. While I personally dont consider this a problem, limiting the amount you get is something SE seems keen on keeping for gear progression so I count this as a problem.

Something like a counter though could resolve this easily, make a simple weekly counter and base gear priorities on that. So if you run more roulette as a tank than a DPS, lets say 6 on tank and 1 on DPS you would have the gear available to purchase limited to mostly tank and some dps gear. At the end of the week the counter would be reset. I dont think the above example is a good or great solution but something would have to give / be taken for SE to make a change like this.

I sadly don't see SE making any changes to our gearing systems. The tome caps are stupid, but its a trail of crumbs for us to slowly follow week after week to keep us subscribed.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

Because the damn game pushes you to 'all in one'. that makes no sense whatsoever. some people I know actually make alts just to do what ops been asking. people get burnt out anyways, games a themepark. it takes months to fully gear up one job. just do it by 'roles' at least ppl will stay and play a little longer. as bourne said, 14 weeks, 4.1 will be around the corner anyways so there still will be ppl waiting on that.
again, if worried about subs, do roles only.

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Illogical.
Tomes mainly come from random dungeons, namely experts which are 2-3 dungeons.
Increasing the amount people can farm (and make no mistake, many will feel pressured to cap all 3 versions) will burn them out much faster.
They're likely to lapse their subscription before even one role is geared.

No, the game does not push you to "all in one", YOU are doing that. While I have leveled almost all classes to 60, I mainly use 2 of them. My WHM and my Dork.

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

Personally what I would really like to see is MMO's abandoning this stupid currency/gear system and go back to hunting for actual unique drops from named monsters and dungeons/raids. I.E. like FFXI, EQ/2, and other MMO's. This procedurally generated gear that is all the same, just 1% more stats per tier, that you are guaranteed to get in X days if you put in Y effort is so soulless. I miss those special pieces of gear that you worked hard to get and felt special when you got it.

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World of Warcrafts retarded RNG grindfest is <- that way (and it's about as soulless as it can get).
Deterministic loot progression is one of the reasons why I prefer FF-XIV.
My free time is far too scarce and valuable to keep hunting for that elusive drop and get nothing in return for most of my playtime.

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Originally Posted by Niraves

I sadly don't see SE making any changes to our gearing systems. The tome caps are stupid, but its a trail of crumbs for us to slowly follow week after week to keep us subscribed.

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Certainly they encourage a continuous sub, caps and weekly lockouts also serve as equalizers, so people with way too much time on their hands cannot rush forward too far.

Se do this retarded thing so people leave the game and they dont need to upgrade the servers.

If SE removes the cap they will lower tomestones gains and increase items cost, so, you will end with a massive grind.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

If SE removes the cap they will lower tomestones gains and increase items cost, so, you will end with a massive grind.

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Only difference being those truly committed (much like the anima) will be capped and maxed within a week while majority of others will still be working on it.

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Originally Posted by Oxmodial

lol I have no idea why people are so opposed to this idea. Even right now the class you got your omega gear with is already set to be your main unless you have a static that's ok with carrying you and is also good enough to do so. I play MCH and if I wanted to switch to another dps besides bard I actually just can't unless the group I'm with is content with me doing less damage than somebody else who used their omega drops on it.

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People aren't necessarily opposed. Many of us just see why they do things the way they do. Being able to max out jobs faster would be nice, but from a pragmatic perspective, it only means people have less to do faster. Regardless, if you know how to play a job well enough, you aren't being carried even if your gear's inferior.

So the people that have no timeto even do one ex roulette a day, all you neex to cap, dont want people that have the time to "get more". Really its ones more se catering to the lowest denominator.
Its like if grup z cant do it no one need to.then 5his same people saying that no one need to hear so fast? Really if some one cant have the time to play may be he in the wrong game.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Only difference being those truly committed (much like the anima) will be capped and maxed within a week while majority of others will still be working on it.

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"Truly committed" players already have ways to gear up multiple roles, removing the cap is for casuals (that don't need the gear because 310 is more than enough for what they do). Also, one week for all jobs? That's not a grind it's a joke!

And my personal opinion: just because the game allows to level all jobs does not mean you can be maxed everyone single one of them but you are not limited to one job only either, a Healer/Caster can play up to 6 jobs no problem. If anything weird classes like ninja and dragoon should no longer have their own gear and share it with BRD/MCH and SAM/MNK.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Only difference being those truly committed (much like the anima) will be capped and maxed within a week while majority of others will still be working on it.

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And by truly committed you mean:
a) unemployed people
b) people lucky enough to have vacations when a patch drops.

Aye, I don't think the game should be balanced around them.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

And by truly committed you mean:
a) unemployed people
b) people lucky enough to have vacations when a patch drops.

Aye, I don't think the game should be balanced around them.

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I think people just need to learn that there will always be others ahead of them in gearing and get over it. This everyone must be on equal footing bs is getting old. Besides the current tomestone cap is a double edged sword anyway. Sure players can't speed gear their jobs but if you fail to cap for even one week you are already behind with no chance of catching up until the next major patch.

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Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

I think people just need to learn that there will always be others ahead of them in gearing and get over it. This everyone must be on equal footing bs is getting old.

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you have that backwards. the system you're talking about got old with games like FFXI, where large chunks of content was limited to very small groups of people.

this is part of the solution that caters to most of the paying users. you should learn this and get over it.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

If anything weird classes like ninja and dragoon should no longer have their own gear and share it with BRD/MCH and SAM/MNK.

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super strange they didn't group MNK+NIN, DRG+SAM for this purpose.

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Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

I think people just need to learn that there will always be others ahead of them in gearing and get over it. This everyone must be on equal footing bs is getting old. Besides the current tomestone cap is a double edged sword anyway. Sure players can't speed gear their jobs but if you fail to cap for even one week you are already behind with no chance of catching up until the next major patch.

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To be blunt:
Savage raiding drops better gear, so if SE does it right (and by God they don't), savage raiders should only use tome gear as a stop-gap RNG protection, in case a drop doesn't want drop. In fact, many more hardcore MMOs do not have deterministic loot at all. In WoW raiding, your gear doesn't drop? Well you are shit out of luck and have to be content with a pretty inferior piece in that slot until it does (mostly a last Tier raid drop).
Everything besides savage raiding is so easy, that +-20 item levels are completely irrelevant.

So I really don't see the problem here.
Tome gear is basically for non raiding casuals and rewards subscription loyalty more than content played.

Even though both my mains share gear, agreed. I mean I'll never play SMN in SB because I cba to miss gear for a week to keep it up.

How would this work exactly? Like, you expect them to implement some way that the tomes, a form of currency, is some how restricted to the job you are using and not only unusable by another job but the can't be used to buy other Job's equipment? This seems like a hassle. If, however, you want it so each job can earn 450 and spend it on whatever and it is usable by a Jobs, well.. I can't agree to this either because it would making fully gearing a job to easy

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

And then cue people turning right back around and complaining about how they're getting burnt out from having to grind so much if they play multiple jobs that don't share equipment? People complain enough about having to meet the normal cap as it is.

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Don't add something useful, just because some people will complain about their own stupidity

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Hmm, seems reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

And by truly committed you mean:
a) unemployed people
b) people lucky enough to have vacations when a patch drops.

Aye, I don't think the game should be balanced around them.

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And I don't think the game should be balanced around people who barely have time to play it by their own admission. And quite frankly, this is a pretty offensive thing to say, imho.

I work full time, and still end up capped on tomes within two or three days. The tome cap is a ridiculous gate to keep people from progressing too quickly, but its still stupid to lock every job behind the same gate. It makes no sense in a game where you are able to be every job on a single character.

The cap just forces you to make a decision, which is good life is all about decision. You can level all classes but the game really wants to you pick a main job.