The glamour system is awful. We deserve an overhaul.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

It's not perfect, but it's better than no glamour at all. As for restrictions on gear, restrictions are necessary for AF and Job-specific gear at least, because that is the whole purpose of AF in the first place! It's meant to emulate the traditional appearance of that Job in past FF games (like a WHM's traditional appearance is a white robe or clothing tinged in red triangles, a BLM's traditional appearance is a dark blue or black robe with a yellow witch's hat and stripy pants, DRG's traditional appearance is purple draconic armour etc).

Allowing another Job or class to equip it, even for glamour, completely throws that whole idea out the window. Which is why the glamour system has Job restrictions on it. Given that Yoshi stated this ages ago it shows he's pretty firm on this subject (and rightly so), so I do not see that changing at all.

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That isn't the point of contention though. The point is that, because of those restrictions, along with the fact that a piece of gear can only have 1 appearance glamoured on it, if you use Artifact Gear for Glamour, you will lose the ability to have a unique glamour for at least one other Job. The system as-is forces you to pick and choose. Most don't want to be able to look like a Bard as a Machinist, but they would like to have a glamour for their Bard without leaving their Machinist out to dry. As of 4.0, the only Job that will not share gear with another will be Dragoon.

This extends, to a lesser extent, to just the concept of wanting to have different aesthetics for different Jobs. The Wrangler's Set for example looks perfect for a Machinist, but few would find it fitting for a Bard.

This:

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Originally Posted by ColorOfSakura

...the ability to have unique glamours on a Per Job / Class basis, even if using the same base gear. That's it.

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this:

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

The thing I wish they WOULD fix is job specific glam for any shared jobs(tank/healer) being ruined if you try to play multiple roles. I wanna be able glam AF3 for PLD, AF3 for DRK and AF3 for WAR on one higher ilvl gearset(such as thr Omega set).

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and especially this:

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Originally Posted by ZhaneX

People need to stop asking about a Glamour Log or whatever. It got brought up again today at E3... So maybe instead of clinging to the notion and bringing it up at every opportunity, we should instead try asking the developers on what their take on a better system might be?

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Seriously, the glamour log question was already asked in reddit's 2017 PAX interview, did we need to ask it again here at E3's live letter instead of being a little more prudent with a precious question and finding out if maybe its more plausible to let glamour on separate jobs sharing the same gear look different or something?

I'd like a glamour log too, but asking about it at every other interview only a few months apart is nothing short of nagging them. I shudder to think our 1st post-Stormblood Live Letter is going to have a question asking: "so about that glamour log/ achievement log..."

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Yoshi P said today they didn't want to do glamor log book because it would make save files bigger and they are constantly rewriting the save file every time you do zone or do something which would tax the servers too much.

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And it's probably the worst way possible to handle this. It always baffles me how the reason not to do something is basically "we do full character dumps and backups every five seconds, so it would tax the servers too much." I'm not sure if it's because of some underlying 1.0 stuff, and they don't want to rewrite their whole code, but there is no reason for it to work like that. You don't need full syncs every few minutes or when you change zones; incremental backups and log files exist for a reason.

My favourite bollocks excuse is that we can't have server side keybinds and UI, because there would be too much extra traffic. I guess loading them on login and saving them on logout is too much traffic. If your local config differs from server at login, the game asks which one you want to keep. Or add a button to do that manually. Even less traffic used.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Would it be possible to only write to the glamor log file if a change occurs that effects the glamor log such as getting a new piece of gear. Otherwise do not write to this file when changing zones or other stuff that causes a full save file rewrite.

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The glamour book/log/whatever could be done with an NPC that you have to access from the retainer bell or something. Add new looks by "selling" your gear to the guy and then save it to the server if any new gear was added, and the server never ever touches it unless you talk to the NPC. There, traffic and server stress would be the same or less than retainers. Or maybe a text file that lists one string per row weighs too much and they will run out of space.

The problem with glamour log is most likely how the item/gear data is saved because the inventory system was not designed with glamour log in mind. That means the glamour data is probably attached to the base item data, which means that just getting glamour data comes with a large amount of unneeded parameters for all the other values the item has. That results in massive amounts of unnecessary data being moved around, just to get to that one part designating appearance, which in turn results in the glamour log not being a feasible option at the moment.

Changing a core system that the whole game is built on basically requires redesigning the whole thing, and that takes time and resources. It's like trying to change the foundation of a house after the house is already built, you don't just take it out, in the case of FFXIV the house is more like a skyscraper too. All the other systems depend on the foundation so it's not easy to change it.

If a glamour log was suggested 7 years ago when they started making the core item system, I'm sure we could have it, but since that wasn't relevant at the time, the current core system is not flexible enough for it.

We have lots of issues with our servers, it seriously needs a big upgrade. Also, the coding is holding so many features back.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

The problem with glamour log is most likely how the item/gear data is saved because the inventory system was not designed with glamour log in mind.

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Well, WoW didn't get their version of a glamour log until... how many expansions in? When the system was concepted, they didn't even have glamour in mind, let alone a glamour log.

It's probably not the only game that successfully implemented it either.

Personally, I still think the only real limitation is the fear of reduced retainer sales. But if I am right, we will never know, because nobody would ever be crazy enough to admit "that".

Problem is that now there onlly dragoon that can have a glam as he got gear he dont share. If you play healer or tank you super fucked. I hate my war looking like drk and drk like war. Why cant glam per class be a thing?

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

This is just terrible in so many ways I don't even know where to begin...

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You just have a hard one for yoshi.
Say why you think itsa bad.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Personally, I still think the only real limitation is the fear of reduced retainer sales.

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I really want to think (and hope, deffo hope) that its less about that due to a past statement by Yoshida where he encouraged people to toss away old glamor they were no longer using. Though it is a possibility that might have something to do with it because after farming or spending millions or due to seasonal items the game throws at you. No one in their right mind would throw anything away.

I really believe coding and space is one of the issues. Under the current games systems, regardless if the graphic is saved or if the item itself is saved. The interface alone would be a nightmare. Tabs for plate type armor, tabs for healer armor, mage armor, bard, ninja, and whatever currant and future roles and architypes the game will bring and a tab for all the level 1 all/all armors. PLUS save slots for role changes. For it to really work at a bare minimal resources all gear types would have to be unchecked and glamorable by all. Something yes I would deffo love, even artifact armor as well, or else were back to tabs for just a few pieces or armor.

However.....This leads into something else I feel is a factor. Based on another of Yoshida's past statements revolving along the lines of he doesn't want healers in plate armor because it would confuse people. I really feel him saying that was just a nice and polite way of saying he doesn't want to take what makes Final Fantasy...Final Fantasy away from the fans. Something I can respect. There's plenty of talk on the forums that seem to allude to this thought. How many fans would cringe is they saw a WHM in DRG armor or a paladin in BLM armor, or how many as stated by a few in this thread even. Want glamor items to be more class specific. The only real feasible way I could see that happening is if the entire armory system was scrapped and every player was locked to one class role. As the other MMO's in this thread have mentioned, then a unlocked glamor catalogue may work.

That's really what I feel goes through Yoshida's mind when this is brought up. Does he create a current and future coding nightmare, does he scrap the armory system and class lock everyone all while taking away what makes to the fans everything that makes Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy all for a glamor catalogue.

*EDIT*
Me personally, I would rather have the armourer taken out of the game and have that space used for a glamor catalogue specifically for the all/all seasonal and level 1 crafted stuffies. Even using the transmog prisims as costs

i'm not trying to troll...but what exactly is wrong with the glamour? I must be living under a rock or something because I don't see anything wrong with it

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Not that i mean all the time you spend dealing with 8 retainers waiting for menus to load and such, and that is not even enough room, it is barely functional.


So how come a f2p mno can make inventory functional and this game can't? Or look at runescape with the currency tabs

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It mostly has to do with how this game was development. Much of a Realm Reborn structure is still heavily based on 1.0 base code and its where a lot of the programming limitations stem from. Because they had to rebuilt 2.0 in a short amount of time they were not able to completely revamp all aspects of 1.0 rather shoddy programming code. Particularly in regards to how data is read and written when moving from one area to the other. This creates an extensive strain on the servers because it wasn't designed from the ground up to handle such processes.

The reason those MMOs are able to do it is they built their data handling processes early on to handle such situations. It's not quite as simple building and interface and plugging it in. It would require larger alterations on the overall game engine and how data is handled, which is hard to accomplish in a short amount of time which would either require smaller changes throughout a number of years, or a large content drought that would give them the time to make such dramatic changes.

Can it be done? Yes. Can it be done under acceptable means? That's a harder question to answer.

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Originally Posted by Annah

I don't see anything wrong with it

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Which is totally fine! Its one of the things you either like and don't mind, or absolutely despise. The jinst is the glamour system isn't as streamlined or up to par with other current and past MMO's in terms of ease of use, open ended use, functionality, and storage efficiency.

While I do not believe I "Deserve" or "Demand" a better glamour system, I do like the NPC system, but once again...it could "overload" the servers. I am not a tech guy, so I will believe the Dev's concerning the server engine.

i think i must be spoiled lol....because compared to WoW and some other MMOs i've played, the glamour system here is a lot easier and convenient

Is some of the complaints are you want to be a platemail white mage and things like that?

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Originally Posted by Annah

i think i must be spoiled lol....because compared to WoW and some other MMOs i've played, the glamour system here is a lot easier and convenient

Is some of the complaints are you want to be a platemail white mage and things like that?

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If I remember correctly the glamours system in wow charged a crap load and you had to go to the npc in a specific capital city to have the armor changed. The only thing nice about it was the system of having the armor in a cloud somewhere.

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Originally Posted by usalia

Well then people like you are the problem not the devs. Why i cant have my war look like a war and not likea drk?

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Oh? How exactly am I the problem? I'm not disagreeing with OP, I'm just saying that at the current moment and time, this issue has been talked about to no end. And Yoshi even stated yesterday in the live letter that they're not implementing a glamor log because "it's too difficult" or something. And I actually agree with you. I want my WAR to look different than my DRK, but that's just not going to happen anytime soon. Right now we have to suck it up and hope that the devs do something about it eventually. But even then, it doesn't seem like they're keen on the idea.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It seems the devs don't actually know what we want. Here is Blade & Soul, a free two play MMO. Their Wardrobe system works by listing every possible "armour" and allowing you to move any outfits you acquired into it. You can pull them out at any time, provided you're subscribed. I fail to see how a triple A game like FFXIV cannot basically copy this system. The server excuse is just annoying at this point. Weren't they relocated to upgrade them? All this comes across as is Square Enix knowing retain subscriptions would decline.

That isn't the argument though. At least it isn't mine. I adore both the Paladin and Dark Knight AF outfits yet I'm unable to wear both if I want to maintain a progressive ilvl. If I choose Paladin, both Warrior and Dark Knight default to whatever the raid gear is. So instead of enjoying all the unique job glamours, I usually end up shelving them fairly quickly.

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Gonna say one huge oversight is that you can't dye gear in that game(at least from the video it looks like you can't). Looks like every piece is just static from 4 options to Glamour. That make a huge difference. In this game Blade & Souls they have 4 interchangeable options, XIV has 10-11 if you include accessories, Arm, Body, Head, Legs, feet, Offhand, earrings, necklace, bracelet, and 2 rings.

So if we look at this from bits it's already 4 bits to 10-11 bits but just to make it simple XIV is 10 bits. Now here's where it becomes even more complex, because XIV has gear you can dye you can multiply the options in XIV by the amount of dyes in the game, which I believe is 96. So for every 1 piece of gear in blade of souls would technically be 97 for XIV if you count the base as a unique piece of data which it is. So basically this is potentially the type of information that is being thrown around when it comes to glamour because not only does it need to remember the color of the gear per item but the item itself for each gear in the game, that is a lot of data to keep in mind.

So even though Blade and Souls shows to have 100+ pieces of gear that you can easily change into with little issue. With XIV you have to take 100+ and times it by 96, then on top of that you have the 4 to 10 ratio meaning that for every 2.5 pieces of glamour you might be able to save in said game, that would only be 1 character glamour in XIV. Or better put it every 5 players that can be glamoured in B&S is equal to 2 in XIV. So let's say 1million people were playing and using said glamour system. The ratio for that would be 200k to 500k at 2 million, 400k to 1mil, at 4mil 800k to 2mil bits of data. See how quickly it escalates for FFXIV because of the amount of options in the game compared to the F2P one?

Dyes i don't mind being "consumable" or whatever but i would LOVE some kind of glamour armory ( a chest/inventory or something ) we put items we want to use for glamour into, ofc the items would then become bound to your character.

So we don't have to use our current inventory/armory and have them take up space.

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Originally Posted by LoreChief

We want appearance unlocks. We want non-consumed dyes. We want to be able to have distinct appearances based on what class/job we're actively playing, not based on whether the desired look is available to our class on the specific piece of gear we happen to be wearing.

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Agree, 100%.

Literally just take Rift's or WildStar's or DCUO's or hell even LotRO's or GW2's (minus the dumb cash shop currency).

Personally I think it's half the retainer rental income and half the structure limitations due to recycling 1.0 assets when building up 2.0 under tight constraints. When you are financially inclined and held back by a resource-intensive structure-rebuilding process, it's really hard to convince them to work on said issue. Unless we have another lesser moon fall on XIV, the glamour revamp (as much as I pray for it) is quite unlikely to happen sadly...

On a side note, I wonder if it's possible to summon a primal with all the prayers for a glamour revamp lol

As much as I would like to, I found the system so needlessly complicated and poorly designed that I have never actually attempted to glam anything. I honestly cannot believe that it was implemented in such a convoluted fashion... pun absolutely intended!

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Originally Posted by Draginhikari

The reason those MMOs are able to do it is they built their data handling processes early on to handle such situations. It's not quite as simple building and interface and plugging it in. It would require larger alterations on the overall game engine and how data is handled, which is hard to accomplish in a short amount of time which would either require smaller changes throughout a number of years, or a large content drought that would give them the time to make such dramatic changes.

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This needs more likes because of how true it is. They simply didn't plan for that system in advance and so didn't code for it. To squeeze it in now would result in lots of debug and possible errors cause it's a system that was never designed to exist with how the game works now. And I wish they would just say that when this gets asked instead of giving roundabout semi-technical answers.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

This needs more likes because of how true it is. They simply didn't plan for that system in advance and so didn't code for it. To squeeze it in now would result in lots of debug and possible errors cause it's a system that was never designed to exist with how the game works now. And I wish they would just say that when this gets asked instead of giving roundabout semi-technical answers.

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I think they will have to design a new system from scratch to support it, but considering the enormous amount of resources required (both in time and manpower) and the potential financial lost in the short term via retainer rentals, it's not unnatural for them to be dragging their feet on the issue.

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Originally Posted by SokiYagami

On a side note, I wonder if it's possible to summon a primal with all the prayers for a glamour revamp lol

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On it.

http://woostergeologists.scotblogs.w.../06/gypsum.jpg

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Originally Posted by Draginhikari

The reason those MMOs are able to do it is they built their data handling processes early on to handle such situations. It's not quite as simple building and interface and plugging it in. It would require larger alterations on the overall game engine and how data is handled, which is hard to accomplish in a short amount of time which would either require smaller changes throughout a number of years, or a large content drought that would give them the time to make such dramatic changes.

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Honestly? Too bad for them. They need to put in the work.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

On it.

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Let me guess, is this suppose to be a reference from the other thread regarding all the "junks" that we are hogging? Lol

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Originally Posted by SokiYagami

Let me guess, is this suppose to be a reference from the other thread regarding all the "junks" that we are hogging? Lol

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Hrm? No, it's a pile of crystals! Gypsum, mostly. xD

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Hrm? No, it's a pile of crystals! Gypsum, mostly. xD

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Well... that doesn't seem quite like the crystals I had in mind lol. For a moment I thought you might be hinting that my joke is junk if the cross-reference wasn't your intention. XD

The system is perfectly fine the way it is. You can glamour at any time wherever you are whenever you want without having to fiddle with a 700 page nightmare of a book, on a whim. I like this system the way it is, it's compact, efficient, and quick as can be. There no need to fix what not broke.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

it's compact, efficient, and quick as can be.

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lmao. I just... no.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

The system is perfectly fine the way it is. You can glamour at any time wherever you are whenever you want without having to fiddle with a 700 page nightmare of a book, on a whim. I like this system the way it is, it's compact, efficient, and quick as can be. There no need to fix what not broke.

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I disagree. Glamour gear eating up slots and you can't have different looks on a shared-role gear. I understand the frustration of navigating through a bloated menu, but that can be quite easily solved by a neat and intuitive UI in place. In fact the current crafting log UI seems to be able to handle the job well enough imo. Maybe with a few tweaks here and there.

I do tend to be "balanced" imo about what SE does about most things. But lets be honest this isn't going to happen anytime soon, the extra retainers strives considerably on glamour hoarders. I won't go into the semantics of whats right or wrong, i just think its important people realize this aspect of it being tied o it "all" will definitely not result in them pushing for a glamour system that doesn't revolve around inventory space. So while i wont say they wont look into it, they sure as hell are not going to consider it a priority. (though maybe they compromise on a "paid" wardrobe, though i feel that would be received with considerable hostility lol)

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Originally Posted by Gumbercules

(though maybe they compromise on a "paid" wardrobe, though i feel that would be received with considerable hostility lol)

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And for good reason.

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Originally Posted by SokiYagami

I disagree. neat and intuitive UI in place.

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And I'll disagree that any UI can compensate for a clumsy, frustrating mess of a menu where you have to sort through a page by page basis. There's a few thousand of pieces of gear in the game now, and even if said UI would let you save a couple of favorite outfits, you would still need to hunt through hundreds of pages for a new look when it's not your favorite.

Meanwhile, I open our current glamour menu, I see exactly where the item(s) I want is, and I don't have to wrestle with a retarded UI for hours on end. Time saved and used for better things. It's even easier if I want to experiment with new looks! All a glamour log would do is punish me whenever I dared to look for a completely new glamour.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

On it.

http://woostergeologists.scotblogs.w.../06/gypsum.jpg



Honestly? Too bad for them. They need to put in the work.

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This is a narrow view of the reality frankly and gives me the impression that you are unfamiliar with how technology projects operate. Are they aware of the issue with their system? I'd say it's pretty likely they do. But in IT what you can and cannot fix comes down to resources and priority that has to be justified. The more complex and expensive a project is the more justification you have to have in order to get resources needed to accomplish the task in a short amount of time. By any measure it is much easier to devote resources to content and other operations is much easier to justify.

They may very well want to fix the issue, but that doesn't mean they will be able to get the resources to do so and since that is likely require a sacrifice or impact to the content in some form in other to allow it to be done. I don't really believe the community is united enough in any sort of way where the sacrifice of content for the sake of system upgrading is particularly realistic.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

And I'll disagree that any UI can compensate for a clumsy, frustrating mess of a menu where you have to sort through a page by page basis. There's a few thousand of pieces of gear in the game now, and even if said UI would let you save a couple of favorite outfits, you would still need to hunt through hundreds of pages for a new look when it's not your favorite.

Meanwhile, I open our current glamour menu, I see exactly where the item(s) I want is, and I don't have to wrestle with a retarded UI for hours on end. Time saved and used for better things. It's even easier if I want to experiment with new looks! All a glamour log would do is punish me whenever I dared to look for a completely new glamour.

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Since I'm bored out of mind, I came up with this (do pardon my awful Paint editing XD):

1. When you try to glamour the item from character menu as usual:
http://i.imgur.com/m2B49Ri.jpg

2. Scrap the current UI window we have now...
http://i.imgur.com/YbEWqBV.jpg

3. And open a modified version of the crafting log UI instead
http://i.imgur.com/r7b4gC3.jpg

It's definitely more buttons to hit, but in return you don't need to go to a retainer/armoire/NPC to pick up an item instead. There's also a working quick search box that support partial text search if you remember the name, will definitely come in handy to prevent flipping through hundreds of pages! Also, it will be even better if the desired gear (where the Maple Lumber is in picture 3) comes with a "Try On" feature! Assuming this suggestion does come true, surely you might reconsider on your stance? With quick partial search, favorites, a well-sorted categorization and the Try On feature, it seems pretty hassle-free to navigate for me (and I assume anyone who craft even a little) but of course that's just my personal opinion.

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Originally Posted by Draginhikari

This is a narrow view of the reality frankly and gives me the impression that you are unfamiliar with how technology projects operate. Are they aware of the issue with their system? I'd say it's pretty likely they do. But in IT what you can and cannot fix comes down to resources and priority that has to be justified. The more complex and expensive a project is the more justification you have to have in order to get resources needed to accomplish the task in a short amount of time. By any measure it is much easier to devote resources to content and other operations is much easier to justify.

They may very well want to fix the issue, but that doesn't mean they will be able to get the resources to do so and since that is likely require a sacrifice or impact to the content in some form in other to allow it to be done. I don't really believe the community is united enough in any sort of way where the sacrifice of content for the sake of system upgrading is particularly realistic.

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Quoting myself from the other thread.

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Originally Posted by SokiYagami

To be fair, the concerns raised by KisaiTenshi are valid ones. However, just like how some player used the argument that SE is a business organization in the kupo store debate, in this case we are simply end-users. We can simply ignored the process and comment/feedback on the results alone. Just like how SE can charge the digital items cheaper but they won't, we can sympathize with the situation but we don't have to. Not saying that I will be doing that, but hey it take both hands to clap and you can't really blame some of the players here for being pissed.

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Also, I might sound like an arse for saying this, but a person don't have to be a master in electronics to complaint that brand X smartphone is missing function Y that brand Z smartphone excel at. It's a loose metaphor but I think you get what I'm getting at.

I agree. The glamour system is terrible. I love collecting cute clothes and now my inventory is full of em. And we are going to get more clothes and glamours and theres no way our inventory space, even with the added inventory, will be enough to hold it all. I can't imagine also being a crafter and needing space for your materials. This was poorly thought out especially for a game that boasts glamour items and so many materials needed to craft.

I hope eventually they make a change to this but I too do not see it as being high on their priority list.

I also hate paying for retainers -_-

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Originally Posted by SokiYagami

snip.

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You would still need to remove all stats off the armor, change to unsalable, noth-desyntheses, remove melding, and remove converting. That is a lot of work for every piece of armor and wep in the game.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

snip

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You are also in the minority with seeing as it's currently ok, since they've even said they're looking at options to work on it. People have been outspoken with how bad it actually is. Even if logs aren't the answer, having them find other ways to help fix some of the issues with it is something that needs and will happen. Just because you're ok with the system doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of people that have an issue with it and that they shouldn't ignore that and not change anything at all because some people are ok with it. The fact is there are different people set up for working on different things and the people who will be working on this likely see it as something that's going to need to be fixed sooner or later. It'll take some time but it will be fixed, the question becomes how.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

You would still need to remove all stats off the armor, change to unsalable, noth-desyntheses, remove melding, and remove converting. That is a lot of work for every piece of armor and wep in the game.

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I probably should had split that post into two parts... Is this reply for the suggested UI elements or the later half instead? If it's the first half (UI), it's under the assumption that the stats has already been stripped and the item binded upon "saving" into the glamour log. This is more on the "applying" part to convince Thunda_Cat_SMASH that having a glamour log doesn't necessary have to be a chore, which I'd also like to point out, is a very valid concern (but is possible to be dealt with).

If it's directed to the later half... Well my quote already answer that, even if it makes me sound like an arse in the process. Also, just to clear things up, I'm more on the side of wishing the glamour log to come true but I understand why it isn't/hasn't yet because of the reasons (financial incline + technical difficult + resource intensive) stated. Just that to put it frankly, those issue aren't/shouldn't be a concern for us as customers.

The UI might work, but I'm not sure it can really compare to being able to glamour an entire new outfit in 20 seconds. I prefer doing things quickly with clothes, and the UI would need a lot more than just a search function to be a feasible time saver, rather than a 20-30 minute slog, even if it only shows gear equippable by that job.