SMN changes

Pretty sure the Fester nerf is a wrong tooltip. If you check the videos it does roughly 2x the damage of Ruin IV, which is 200 orso potency

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Originally Posted by Len

Huh?

If you're referring to the additional effect: 15% chance that Bio, Bio II, and Miasma duration resets if shorter than original effect duration, that's because it's already in the game. It's been that way since 2.0.

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Ok. I either never noticed or never tried to watch for it to proc and eventually forgot about it.

kinda sad to see SMN is getting nerf >.< i really hope that they do something about it otherwise SMN player base will be even more LESS compare to before lol.

The dotting and great aoe was what made me fall in love with smn. It feels like they've taken away it's identity to me. We lost raise too didn't we? It's going to be sorely missed since I can't even count the amount of times I've saved entire raid or dungeon runs with that.

I was rolling my eyes at the people saying the pruning and reworking of the jobs would be like WoW. I shouldn't have. This is starting to feel very much like when Warlords of Garrisons came out and ruined Warlock, Blood DK, and Hunter for me. It made me quit the game.
I'm not going to crawl into a dark corner playing Sound of Silence just yet but I'm glad I haven't bought the expansion. I need to know more before I throw any more money at SE. If they've f-ed up my favorite job I'll keep looking for another MMO.

edit: Am currently looking at Mr.Happy's video. Just had to come back to edit to say that indeed as CecMiller said down below, we still got ress.

edit 2: My aoe miasma! ;___; Why SE? Why? And I hate what they did to contagion! ):<

To quote my feelings from the other thread:

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I'm looking forward to the SMN changes, but I do have to question some decision making. Making Fester 200 potency and painflare also 200 potency means there is no decision to be made. Painflare is objectively better as it has the advantage of hitting multiple targets whilst dealing the same potency and having no setup required to cast it. Fester requires dots to be on the target for it to even deal damage and it can deal less than 200 potency if you somehow only have 1 dot up (100 potency) or comically - none (RIP AA stacks). I'm certain that the team will look over the numbers for the potencys of the spells and fix any translation errors in the tooltips as I'm certain fester shouldn't be objectively worse than painflare but reducing the potency on ruin 3 by 25% and making ruin 4 a proc didn't make me very happy either. Bahamut is cool tho, lets not lie.

That said, I am looking forward to see how our single target damage shapes up. Bane was mostly used in dungeons for AOE for me and so the nerf hurts the dungeon clear times. For raids, I've used it on the second set off adds in A9S and spreading the dots from Faust onto refurbisher when his defence buff was up. In A11S it was possible to bane dots from cruise chaser onto 2 lapis and A12S I never even used it (with the 8 adds exploding within seconds). So all in all, its not a MASSIVE loss for the current raid tier. I think when they said they wanted to reduce the discrepancy between top dps players and the average player, they intended for an effect that these current summoner changes will have. I can't hide the fact that I'm disappointed in some of the changes however. For me, it feels like we will be seeing the same meta as we've had in 3.4 and not a single caster making the line up. Its worth keeping in mind that since we only need to keep up 2 dots, that frees up a GCD for a ruin/ruin2/ruin 3 which has a chance to turn into ruin 4. Personally, I don't get the potency nerfs for Ruin 3. I just don't see why it was needed as I believe summoners were in the middle of the pack single target damage wise (tho I don't have any proof of this). I will also miss contagion for longer dots D: But hey, at least we still have Tri-Bind!

As a side note: I propose we make a formal petition to SE to re-name Tri-Disaster to Bi-Disaster. In 5.0, given the current trend of reducing the number of dots, the spell should be aptly named Disaster.

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And to clarify some misconceptions: We still have a raise and the only abilities we have whose damage is reduced by the number of target it hits is Bane and Bahamaut's Akh Morn. Further, Bane already has the ability to refresh its dots. I think there are also errors in the tooltips as the fester potency value makes 0 sense when comparing its potency value to video evidence.

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Originally Posted by Anyan

The dotting and great aoe was what made me fall in love with smn. It feels like they've taken away it's identity to me. We lost raise too didn't we?

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We still have Raise.

I wonder how much physick will heal now. Seeing that the red mage can heal close to 6k health, if we can do the same that will explain why sustain is gone.
Also this makes me a bit salty.
https://gfycat.com/InbornAppropriateDwarfrabbit

Fester IS NOT nerfed. We can see on the videos that fester deals a lot more damage than painflare. It was an error on tooltip.

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

I wonder how much physick will heal now. Seeing that the red mage can heal close to 6k health, if we can do the same that will explain why sustain is gone.
Also this makes me a bit salty.
https://gfycat.com/InbornAppropriateDwarfrabbit

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There's no way that makes it into the final build. They will probably make it so that RDM's raise won't be affected by Dual Cast.

Thank you Yoshida, my Titan is finally DEAD. How do am i suposed to tank with titan now??? Psysick? Are you kidding? GG solo content, now we have only 2 egis.

I'd like to point out also that you can enkindle bahamut TWICE per summon, he lasts 20 seconds, and enkindle bahamut has a 13 second recast.

I am totally happy. Being a hardcore player I like a challenge.

No complaints from me. Only one tiny observation:

TRI Disaster should be rename Disaster as it not longer pull 3 actions together but only 2.

That's it apart from that I'm excited for what there is to come. Lots of changes for SMN and moving in the right direction with pets. HOPE to see if Ifrit Garuda and Titan same as bahamut next expansion (who knows we might even get ramuh shiva and etc)

They are listening and things are getting done

Haha this game, a challenge? Oh dear. Find a discipline in life that actually requires more skill than a 5 year old can put out then perhaps. There is no skill in gaming, least of all in this game. Sorry to disappoint.

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Originally Posted by Mindiori

Haha this game, a challenge? Oh dear. Find a discipline in life that actually requires more skill than a 5 year old can put out then perhaps. There is no skill in gaming, least of all in this game. Sorry to disappoint.

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Sorry we talking about the SMN changes no what I think, for me, is a challenge. Have you got anything else to contribute to the thread in regards of the changes for SMN? Rather than focusing on me? If not move along

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I'd like to point out also that you can enkindle bahamut TWICE per summon, he lasts 20 seconds, and enkindle bahamut has a 13 second recast.

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Hopefully higher ping doesn't get in the way of performing two Enkindle Bahamuts too much >o<

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Originally Posted by Mature

TRI Disaster should be rename Disaster as it not longer pull 3 actions together but only 2.

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Tri-disaster puts up a third 15s debuff called Ruination.

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Originally Posted by Anyan

The dotting and great aoe was what made me fall in love with smn. It feels like they've taken away it's identity to me.

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^THIS^ Without dots what are we? :(

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

^THIS^ Without dots what are we? :(

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A halfbreed mix between EQ's Necromancer and Beastlord?
Hell, lets just go ahead and do what shoulda been done since the design phase of 2.0..... made summy a beastmaster. Pets: Check, Detrimental DoT type spells: Check, Pet buffs: Check, Fancy gear with beast or dragon like motifs: Check
Anyone else getting this feeling? Or am I seeing the writing on the wall a little too sooner than others?

I feel I'm gonna miss the old Miasma II > Contagion > Bane > Blizzard II spam rotation, but if painflare is faster I guess that could make up for the loss of the latter. I hope either physick or some pet trait makes up for the loss of sustain.

I loved BST in FFXI I hope they bring it back IN FULL. Summoners had a hard time finding their place in FFXI also, we weren't useful as SMN most of the time and ended up healing.
I would pay money to have BST be one of the jobs we get next.

I'm really not sure where people are getting Fester being hard nerfed. Mr. Happy's video clearly shows Fester is doing like 3 times the Ruin spell and almost double Painflare.

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

I wonder how much physick will heal now. Seeing that the red mage can heal close to 6k health, if we can do the same that will explain why sustain is gone.
Also this makes me a bit salty.
https://gfycat.com/InbornAppropriateDwarfrabbit

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Wow, if that a battle raise then rdm can even do it better than healer, but if not battle raise then it just some fancy gimmick tho

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I'm really not sure where people are getting Fester being hard nerfed. Mr. Happy's video clearly shows Fester is doing like 3 times the Ruin spell and almost double Painflare.

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Think this is why

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Considering he had ilvl 290 gear there, the fact that fester was doing the same damage as we do now at ilvl 270 was not comforting

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Which honestly..... it might sound bout right.. With the current BIS/melds it wouldn't surprise me, anyone care to confirm seeing i'm kinda only hitting random 3.2-4ks from being a lazy 258 with crap for a relic XD. Where as he was hitting 5599 straight base with fester

I believe that is tooltip bug, test realms always have some errors in my exp. 150/300 fester potency would make more logic than 150/200. I hope that bane damage is not gonna be 80% damage reduced as well. It become really bad if it that weak. Black mages get new ability with 650 potency aoe with almost zero mana cost so it would be no reason nerf summoners aoe that hard.

Seems like summoner gonna be changer for more ruin spam than dot management. Every dot is gonna be 30 sec duration so you barely even need cast them anymore. You can put first dots with tri-disaster, you can put second dots with tri disaster and third dots with tri disaster because of how aetherflow and dread stance works. Aetherflow have tooltip that says you can not use it during dreadwyrm stance? Does that mean you can not use any aetherflow based abilities during dread stance or you can not just activate aetherflow during stance? Healers mana management skill is now usable for even summoners so i guess spamming ruin 3 outside stance gonna be even more common in the expansion. Not sure will it become boring class because ruin gameplay may ruin everything.

After watching different SMN videos I believe Fester is a tooltip mistake. Ruin III landed for around 3300ish and Fester was hitting for 5500ish.

Honestly the overall changes aren't that different from how the community plays now. They use Garuda specifically to extend DoTs so they spam more ruin. 4.0 gives a hard 30s DoT rotation with easier management so you can spam ruin. The key thing though is SE is quietly trying to nerf speed runs again. SMN saw a huge buff to Bane from infecting only 3 target (remember those day) to infecting everything. Now they are swinging back the other way and wanting to nerf dungeon runs again.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I'm honestly looking forward to playing Summoner again in 4.0

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oh me too - I kinda like the evolution of this cls. just missing pet skills after all. : /

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Originally Posted by AristocraticCorgi

SMN's damage will come mostly from Bahamut and using correctly DwT and DaT.
Yes, bane got nerfed but who cares? Single target damaged got drastically increased thanks to Bahamut and now we Devotion, which will be a very welcome addition to raids.

You guys are crying over nothing, pretty much.

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yeppo +1

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Actually no... it will be even WORSE for Raids...

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...

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Originally Posted by MOthe

Thank you Yoshida, my Titan is finally DEAD. How do am i suposed to tank with titan now??? Psysick? Are you kidding? GG solo content, now we have only 2 egis.

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Hmm yeah this is something what they seem to forget at all...

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

^THIS^ Without dots what are we? :(

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We'll have our DoTs. DoTs and Ruin are really the only things we can do as the aether flow spells are off limit while we're in DWT. T^T Tri-disaster one the main and dot up the rest, while Bahamut actually does our DPS.

I for one am mostly disappointed in the shift of playstyle and lack of "challenge" the class brings. We've shifted away from managing 3 dots with varied uptime (30s, 24s and 18s respectively with a total of 110 potency every 3 seconds) to 2 dots that both last 30s (with a total of 80 potency over 3 seconds) removing most dot management to maximize dps. To maximize your damage in the current savage raid tier, you needed to be good at dot management and shadowflare uptime (which is now changed to once every 60s). There were more decisions to be made: Do I refresh bio? Do I refresh Miasma? Maybe the optimum strategy at a particular fight was to refresh bio but cast a ruin instead of refreshing miasma. They're on the fly decisions you had to make. Most of this comes with learning the fight, but now dot management difficulty has been significantly turned down and in turn makes the class seem a lot more boring.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't see the challenge in SMN compared to say a melee class where positionals result in increased potency on your abilities or other effects. Instead, we get a "15% chance to cast Ruin 4". Whilst we may have cast Ruin 3/Ruin 2/Ruin 1 liberally in the current creator savage raid tier, in 4.0 casting ruin is most of what you will be doing. I just don't like how streamlined the job has become. Sure the damage might work out with number changes, but the playstyle seems incredibly boring. From initial impressions, there isn't a whole lot a player can do which separates a great summoner from a good summoner. Sure we will still see these differences, but I feel like tacking on the "15% chance to make your next Ruin 1/3 into Ruin 4" cheapens the experience. Bahamut is great and all, but dot management was part of the summoner parcel for me. Removing that aspect doesn't make me as interested in the class as I was before.

Further still, the Aetherial Attunement stacks lasting 30s was cool to manage at least for me personally. Casting painflare just before cruise chaser does limit cut so I have 3 stacks which last long enough for DWT when he becomes vulnerable again was pretty cool D: They're small but awesome tricks. However, I do feel with the current summoner changes, SE will have reduced the dps difference between a great summoner and an average summoner and that does make me a little sad if I'm honest. I cant argue that they've either achieved or have come close to achieving what they set out to do which is reducing the dps disparity between the a good SMN and an average SMN. Perhaps too much? I couldn't say until I get a chance to play it myself.

As a sidenote: After seeing the bard changes with the way songs are used, I thought it would have been cool if something similar could be applied to summoner. Perhaps there would be a use for summoning titan egi, then ifrit egi, then garuda egi for 30s each and at the end we're rewarded with demi-bahamut for 15 minutes (I would have said until combat ends but that'd be only good for raiding. 15 mins means it should be there for most of the dungeon.) or whatever. This makes use of the otherwise underutilised egi's in the raiding scene. Just thought it would have been cool when I saw how the new BRD songs worked D:

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I believe that is tooltip bug, test realms always have some errors in my exp. 150/300 fester potency would make more logic than 150/200. I hope that bane damage is not gonna be 80% damage reduced as well. It become really bad if it that weak. Black mages get new ability with 650 potency aoe with almost zero mana cost so it would be no reason nerf summoners aoe that hard..

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Yeah seriously...I mean right now the potency on the DoTs is 110 per tick in a normal Tri-Disaster.

The DoTs in the changed version are at 70 potency (Bio 2 + Miasma 2)... so that's a nerf in and of itself.

Use BANE on that and it becomes.....

70 potency per tick on the first target
56 potency per tick on the second target
42 potency per tick on the third target

Its so weak its questionable as to whether its even usable or not.

Want to know the damage the 3rd target is getting? Go out and throw ONLY a current BIO on a mob... and watch it tick.... that's 40 potency right there...

That's what BANE will now be worth.

You can skip BANE entirely and just hard cast them and be better off.

They could just as well remove the thing entirely at this point... that's what its worth after this.

If they wanted to Nerf it... just dropping the potency to 70 per tick would have been enough... but then throwing the -20% per target just nerfed it into the ground to the point of almost uselessness.

Its what you call overnerfing something.

Whilst Bane has been nerfed, I believe the nerf will mostly hit the dungeon aspect. From what we've seen from clips, there wasn't very many "large pulls". However, Bane is still useful. You will not be better off hard casting them in a large pack as those GCD's could be spent on casting ruin 3 in DWT. Harder still is being able to identify which adds got the massive potency reduced dots. It would be more efficient to spam Painflare after 1 bane and then immediately getting DWT going and spamming Ruin 3. Don't get me wrong, Bane is much worse now, however, it will still be a gain and whilst I haven't done the math for it, I don't believe individually dotting mobs would be better. This would be dependant on the speed at which the mobs are dying at and the pack size tho.

However, keep in mind that they may yet change the values on bane. I think 80% is brutal. I think 50% at max would be more appropriate.

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Originally Posted by CecMiller

Whilst Bane has been nerfed, I believe the nerf will mostly hit the dungeon aspect. From what we've seen from clips, there wasn't very many "large pulls". However, Bane is still useful. You will not be better off hard casting them in a large pack as those GCD's could be spent on casting ruin 3 in DWT. Harder still is being able to identify which adds got the massive potency reduced dots. It would be more efficient to spam Painflare after 1 bane and then immediately getting DWT going and spamming Ruin 3. Don't get me wrong, Bane is much worse now, however, it will still be a gain and whilst I haven't done the math for it, I don't believe individually dotting mobs would be better. This would be dependant on the speed at which the mobs are dying at and the pack size tho.

However, keep in mind that they may yet change the values on bane. I think 80% is brutal. I think 50% at max would be more appropriate.

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Yeah.... but Ruin 3 spam is pointless in a multi-target environment and not even used.

Given the current tactics on Mobs in an AoE situation... here's how it actually works and how SMNs destroy mob packs in the current version.

Tri-Disaster>Painflare>Contagion>Bane>Miasma II>Painflare>DWT>Deathflare
Sometimes a Aerial Blast (Garuda Enkindle)

There is no Ruin 3 spamming because its pointless in a 6-10 mob spread. You use that AFTERwards to wipe out what's left after all that. Which is usually only 1-3 stronger targets that are now very weak. Sometimes its not quite enough and the mobs still have a sliver of health left so you'd move in and Spam a couple of Bliz 2's to finish them off.. and then Ruin 3 on the couple of stronger targets that are almost dead...

Ruin 3 spamming isn't used until afterwards... I don't expect that tactic to change at all... mostly because single target damage is pointless in a multi-target environment.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

stuff

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I already knew the aoe rotation! I main summoner too!

I wasn't talking about current pulls. I was commenting on what I've seen from clips. Most pulls seemed to be small with 3-4 mobs at max. We wont have blizz 2 or miasma 2. What you stated is what we currently use on large packs. Further, Ruin 3 was not pointless in a multi-target environment as you already pointed out as it still had its uses with 4 or less mobs. The current clips I've seen of the dungeons is exactly that: 4 or less mobs.

To quote my post:

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Originally Posted by CecMiller

Whilst Bane has been nerfed, I believe the nerf will mostly hit the dungeon aspect. From what we've seen from clips, there wasn't very many "large pulls". However, Bane is still useful. You will not be better off hard casting them in a large pack as those GCD's could be spent on casting ruin 3 in DWT.

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I don't think there is cause for an alarm just yet. Bane was hit hard, but there is a chance this will be changed. And there may be bigger pulls in the dungeons than what we've seen so far. I like'd summoner for its deletion of trash mobs in dungeons too, but I hope its not hit that hard. I mainly enjoy summoner in raids and bane is almost meaningless in the current Savage Raid content as adds die too fast. I can see the concern if the adds take a LOT longer to kill.

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Originally Posted by CecMiller

I already knew the aoe rotation! I main summoner too!

I wasn't talking about current pulls. I was commenting on what I've seen from clips. .

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Ahh You were talking about the videos...

Yeah those don't really represent how the game actually gets played... so yeah I see what you were saying.

Still yeah the current iteration of the BANE... is so weak its going to be pointless to use at all. Even on 3 or less mobs Hard Casting will probably be more effective than BANE.

I mean seriously the third target is only a 42 potency and the 4th target after that is even less. Thats like being back at level 10 Arcanist, even with Ruin 3 spam.

I seriously can't even recommend using BANE for that.

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Originally Posted by CecMiller

I for one am mostly disappointed in the shift of playstyle and lack of "challenge" the class brings. We've shifted away from managing 3 dots with varied uptime (30s, 24s and 18s respectively with a total of 110 potency every 3 seconds) to 2 dots that both last 30s (with a total of 80 potency over 3 seconds) removing most dot management to maximize dps. To maximize your damage in the current savage raid tier, you needed to be good at dot management and shadowflare uptime (which is now changed to once every 60s). There were more decisions to be made: Do I refresh bio? Do I refresh Miasma? Maybe the optimum strategy at a particular fight was to refresh bio but cast a ruin instead of refreshing miasma. They're on the fly decisions you had to make. Most of this comes with learning the fight, but now dot management difficulty has been significantly turned down and in turn makes the class seem a lot more boring.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't see the challenge in SMN compared to say a melee class where positionals result in increased potency on your abilities or other effects. Instead, we get a "15% chance to cast Ruin 4". Whilst we may have cast Ruin 3/Ruin 2/Ruin 1 liberally in the current creator savage raid tier, in 4.0 casting ruin is most of what you will be doing. I just don't like how streamlined the job has become. Sure the damage might work out with number changes, but the playstyle seems incredibly boring. From initial impressions, there isn't a whole lot a player can do which separates a great summoner from a good summoner. Sure we will still see these differences, but I feel like tacking on the "15% chance to make your next Ruin 1/3 into Ruin 4" cheapens the experience. Bahamut is great and all, but dot management was part of the summoner parcel for me. Removing that aspect doesn't make me as interested in the class as I was before.

Further still, the Aetherial Attunement stacks lasting 30s was cool to manage at least for me personally. Casting painflare just before cruise chaser does limit cut so I have 3 stacks which last long enough for DWT when he becomes vulnerable again was pretty cool D: They're small but awesome tricks. However, I do feel with the current summoner changes, SE will have reduced the dps difference between a great summoner and an average summoner and that does make me a little sad if I'm honest. I cant argue that they've either achieved or have come close to achieving what they set out to do which is reducing the dps disparity between the a good SMN and an average SMN. Perhaps too much? I couldn't say until I get a chance to play it myself.

As a sidenote: After seeing the bard changes with the way songs are used, I thought it would have been cool if something similar could be applied to summoner. Perhaps there would be a use for summoning titan egi, then ifrit egi, then garuda egi for 30s each and at the end we're rewarded with demi-bahamut for 15 minutes (I would have said until combat ends but that'd be only good for raiding. 15 mins means it should be there for most of the dungeon.) or whatever. This makes use of the otherwise underutilised egi's in the raiding scene. Just thought it would have been cool when I saw how the new BRD songs worked D:

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100% agree - dot and pet management was something I loved as well - no fix rota, situational prios and a mix of burst and ticks. although they pushed ruin for the primary rota, I think dots can still make the last xtra-% which make the difference ins mastering the changes in the end.

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Originally Posted by CecMiller

Whilst Bane has been nerfed, I believe the nerf will mostly hit the dungeon aspect. From what we've seen from clips, there wasn't very many "large pulls". However, Bane is still useful. You will not be better off hard casting them in a large pack as those GCD's could be spent on casting ruin 3 in DWT. Harder still is being able to identify which adds got the massive potency reduced dots. It would be more efficient to spam Painflare after 1 bane and then immediately getting DWT going and spamming Ruin 3. Don't get me wrong, Bane is much worse now, however, it will still be a gain and whilst I haven't done the math for it, I don't believe individually dotting mobs would be better. This would be dependant on the speed at which the mobs are dying at and the pack size tho.

However, keep in mind that they may yet change the values on bane. I think 80% is brutal. I think 50% at max would be more appropriate.

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not only bane - I see way more skills in other cls' as well which most probably have to be balanced after a short SB-Testing phase. like after all big updates ^^

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Originally Posted by CecMiller

I already knew the aoe rotation! I main summoner too!

I wasn't talking about current pulls. I was commenting on what I've seen from clips. Most pulls seemed to be small with 3-4 mobs at max. We wont have blizz 2 or miasma 2. What you stated is what we currently use on large packs. Further, Ruin 3 was not pointless in a multi-target environment as you already pointed out as it still had its uses with 4 or less mobs. The current clips I've seen of the dungeons is exactly that: 4 or less mobs.

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my advice don't even try to discuss things with "Trump" .____.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Our AoE damage was really what this job had going for it...

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AoE in general got nerfed hard in SB pretty much all AoE skills has that falloff thing now, to me it seems SMN damage focus has shifted from DoT's to actual summons/single target nuke.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

AoE in general got nerfed hard in SB pretty much all AoE skills has that falloff thing now, to me it seems SMN damage focus has shifted from DoT's to actual summons/single target nuke.

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Actually even that got nerfed.

The rest of it was thrown on RNG. So I can't even say that is true. That said it is likely in my eyes that the Fester thing was a bad tooltip, it makes no sense to have it nerfed to 200 potency.

But that's not even the biggest problem here... someone brought this one up to me.

What happens when you get level synced and have to go Tome diving?

That is going to be seriously painful to play.

They basically nerfed just about all your primary skills from lower level too.We have yet to guage actual pet damage so that's an unanswered question, but I don't see anything that's showing me a large enough improvement to overcome any of the nerfs.

And that doesn't get into Raid questions regarding movement, Boss mob invulnerability, and mechanics... and them nerfing your DPS outside of DWT and squeezing it all into DWT. That came back to bite BLMs hard with Enochian.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Actually even that got nerfed.

And that doesn't get into Raid questions regarding movement, Boss mob invulnerability, and mechanics... and them nerfing your DPS outside of DWT and squeezing it all into DWT. That came back to bite BLMs hard with Enochian.

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Well, they don't tune jobs to level sync, they're turned to performance at level 70. It is what it is. Secondly, I don't think we can compare DWT >Bahamut Summons to Enochian, as the only thing that it's gated behind is essentially 6 uses of Aetherflow stacks, which seem to no longer be on a timer.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Well, they don't tune jobs to level sync, they're turned to performance at level 70. It is what it is

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Yeah but it still gonna suck to do that...

Let alone level the thing from scratch if you can make it to 70th after the changes. At the very least leveling from Arcanist was viable... but I can't even guarantee that at this point.

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Secondly, I don't think we can compare DWT >Bahamut Summons to Enochian, as the only thing that it's gated behind is essentially 6 uses of Aetherflow stacks, which seem to no longer be on a timer.

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You're right... Enochian is not quite the same...

The reason I bring that up, is because a lot of the damage is based on that.

Prior your DoTs + Pet were ticking all the while, and you could throw some Ruin Spam to make up for any heavy mechanics or boss mob killing your DWT... so losing it didn't hurt overall DPS much. Yeah it stung to lose a Deathflare due to either mechanics or Boss Mob invulnerability, but in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't hurt you that bad...

But with our primary damage locked in with DWT... and the other stuff nerfed... and at lesser damage... how close are we to that?

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I'm really not sure where people are getting Fester being hard nerfed. Mr. Happy's video clearly shows Fester is doing like 3 times the Ruin spell and almost double Painflare.

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From the tooltip that was shown by SE on the media tour. Mr. Happy isn't a dev so I'm going to go with what Yoshi showed over Mr. Happy.

I'm not sure I like the new class idea. I played the summoner for the dot class aspect and it seems to have moved from the dot aspect to be more bursty and pet oriented. However, until I play it I'll never know.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

We have yet to guage actual pet damage so that's an unanswered question, but I don't see anything that's showing me a large enough improvement to overcome any of the nerfs.

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actually we don't know if and how the new Egi skills or current Egi-skill adjustments are look like, do we? Maybe they got a fix-line as well - at least they connected pet-related skills to your own skills which at least for me is an improvement to involve your pet to your identity a bit more (f.e. ruin mastery which can proc ruin in different lvls and decrease the enkindle cd).

After all we don't know why nearly every dd skill got nerfed in pot - but it's not that unusual to re-balance atk stats of skills instead raising the mob stats higher and higher... so if the new boss monster got equal or less LP compared to the current ones instead of getting higher and higher stats, the nerfs are just balancing in general... maybe this is one of the reasons nearly every skill is reduced in pot. we have to consider if we get more and more stronger skills with higher and higher pot.... we could eventually one-shot a primal like Ifrit or Shiva in 5.0 or 6.0... so they have to balance mobs and skills somehow. what doesn't mean that certain cls' get worthless at all if they lose some pot (in raw numbers).

im really looking for the new chaining-like battle system - at least on smns side. the com asks for more focus on pets and burst for a long time - SB will answer these demands. but now even before the release the com cry about DoTs... so what should SE do with us summoners? It's like you want something and if you get, its uninterested and you want the opposite. I doubt there is a way to please everyone with 100%...