SE, no one likes FATEs. Just stop.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I think yoki event really killed fates alot from my experience I actually started playing when this was goin on and so many people where grinding fates. Like alot and I think it just got yuck after that event , now diadum seems pretty horrible to me because I hate fates now main reason I didnt even do anima. Maybe if that event never happened some of the distaste wouldn't exist.

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Now that I can agree with. I really couldn't get into the whole yokai thing and for a while after I was like "get that nasty FATE away from me". I have yet to venture to Diadem so I won't comment on that.

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Originally Posted by Dement

However, I remember doing Beseiged an absolute ton of times in my time in FFXI and I don't ever remember having as high of a distaste for it as I do FATEs.

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Well said. I think Beseiged, NM's and the Campaign battles were exciting and fun to do. I will forever scratch my head on why they went all-in on FATES and didn't pull more from their successful ideas in FFXI to make the open world more fun and engaging.

You had me at the title :3

It's okay they have dynamic random events on the field but most of the FATEs I see are the most uninteresting versions of that, like 99% of FATEs are the pretty meh to me. Ones where they have big events, bosses, the South Shroud invade a keep replace the ownership thing - those are kind of interesting but those represent a very small fraction of what FATEs are.

Would like to see the Treasure Hunt, Leve, and or other systems get boosted though to help keep Open World still worth visiting occasionally lol. Specifically Leve, which have the opportunity to create much tighter experiences than FATEs can offer with the pro/con randoms can't join.. which is part of the controlled experience you don't need to randomly scale the content and so you can design a much better fight/mechanic filled enemy (but they have acquisition and reward issues, so the system needs change for players to accept - I think you could develop something like smaller max leve more per 12 hours, better spread and less travel of leves, hotspots (reward boosted areas) that shift so you are encouraged to travel all over, all leve are more rewarding, while adding NM/Burning Circle leve and other "epic" leve challenges).

So yeah the FATEs that change the zone, they have big impact/feel - those are cool but nearly all FATEs are not that. Because of that, imo, nearly all FATEs are an uninteresting content that I believe other systems could do better. Like the common scenario is either: a swarming / less thought than PotD mess when popular, and slower trudging leve with less interesting mechanics because it's designed for randoms as well as FATEs self failing in locations when empty- either way a generic FATE is a "meh" FATE to me.

I actually like fates - what I don't like is doing them for a random award based on RNG

I used to think FATES were not that bad. Now they are just excessively overused for seasonal events, crossover events, Relic, Anima, Diadem, Beast tribes, grind seals and leveling. To be honest I am surprised you don't need to complete a FATE to access savage, primals etc. Now I just can't stand them as they are boring and stale.

Would be nice if FATE's affected the environment you read some of the descriptions like kill these mobs as they are breeding out of control or taking over a watering hole. They could do this by increasing the amount of mobs in a zone or removing a FATE till you have the problem under control. In the mean time add a harder FATE that has to be dealt with to stabilise the area

I like fates! Keep them coming! Each to their own I suppose.

I enjoy FATEs.... Yeah it gets old after awhile but they provide content to areas where there'd otherwise be none.

Sure, a revamping of the FATE system could be good and it's true that FATEs get stale quickly but how would you go about fixing the problem with the playerbase as it is?

Increase xp? People would rather do Potd
Offer unique rewards for turn ins? People would do them only until they finished getting what they want
Make them harder? People would only complaint that it's 'impossibly hard or unfair' because it's easier to complain than get a proper group to do it.

No matter what you do someone's going to complain

Yeah, diadem could probably have been better in terms of content but given they years of playing the game that people have under the belt, did you expect something different?

Instead of constantly complaining how terrible it is it'd be more productive I think to provide examples or ideas to make FATEs interesting and fun for the community as a whole.

I agree that events should be more lax on using FATEs for their center piece of content. Especially after yokai and the other grinding events that required FATEs be used. I feel many are burnt out on FATES due to the staggering use of them as of late and of their use in relic quests as well. Inherently I don't think FATEs are bad but I see where there are problems.

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If an event would be to occur again. Ithe would be better perhaps that if they were to use FATEs again, to have them be a mode of entry for a dingeon.

Let's say for example that an event made an instanced zone/general zone similar to diadem. You can have several FATEs occurring, perhaps similar to the dragon chain in Coerthas in which it is Ann escort, defence and finally boss. It could be similar. If you beat the boss or however the end chain would be you would then have access to the yhat events dungeon. Or maybe by finishing the fate you free people. The people then appear in that game world with quests and you finish quests that would then give access to some finale dungeon/trial/instance whatever.

If any of the fate chain would fail however it'd just start over from the start in five minutes or so. Since people loath waiting. God forbid you had to have any patience.

Or perhaps as another idea. Say that you have to infiltrate a location. And you have to do specific things that change anytime you do the fate, and you do that interaction and clear the fate without being seen. Similar to the vase gate in the gold saucer.

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I really am not going to argue about this because it was proven to me that if your opinion is not the popular opinion you'll be harassed for having a different opinion. I did not appreciate being harassed in the game for a earlier FATE discussion on the forums so I'm not going to get anymore into it now.

I don't like how alot of these threads devolve into a one sided arguement when discussions are ment to be a discussion.

If you really want to 'fix' FATEs try providing an avenue in which such a system can be changed or altered instead of asking for it to be entirely removed.

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Originally Posted by BCRD

Well said. I think Beseiged, NM's and the Campaign battles were exciting and fun to do. I will forever scratch my head on why they went all-in on FATES and didn't pull more from their successful ideas in FFXI to make the open world more fun and engaging.

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Yeah, I don't understand it either. A lot of FFXI's systems were actually really good once they were refined. FFXIV could benefit tremendously from them. FFXI's faults are glaring and obvious and FFXIV has done well to address them but it would do well not to completely shun its predecessor's more creative concepts.

The more I thought about this and nostalgia'd out on Besieged, the more I thought that it came down to the reward structure (which in my opinion is FFXIVs largest problem). People did Besieged because the Astral Candescence granted global player benefits. Increased xp in all Aht Urghan areas for everyone and you could buy 8 hours of constant Regen, Refresh or meal duration for a paltry sum as long as the player base controlled the Astral Candescence. It benefited everyone and encouraged entire servers to defend it. It was basically having 3 or 4 FC buffs up at the same time but applied to everyone that was playing in certain areas. These are the kinds of rewards that could be implemented in FFXIV for certain large scale FATEs as opposed to dropping individual rewards that once you no longer need them there's no real reason to participate in the FATE.

Of course, the 2nd concern is making the FATEs actually fun. I don't want to burn down 300 deer that keep spawning and I don't want to murder 100 earth elementals to pick up their cores and take those cores to a nearby NPC. It would need to be unique and spread out over large enough of an area that you could disperse the population to different facets of it so it isn't just 1000 people standing in a 50 yalm circle murdering the hell out of Odin so hard that no one knows what's actually happening.

Maybe they could give each zone a zone wide FATE which would have some sort of broadcast for when it was occurring to give people time to gather for it. Make it like an actual large scale skirmish between players and Beastmen of the area or whatever other idea they derive. Several factions are camped or traveling to a location in the zone which needs to be defended... the beastmen have set up ambushes for player parties. The Ixal are patrolling the skies in war balloons so you can't just get on your mount and fly directly to the general and face murder him as a zerg. There's a ton of stuff they can do with it and I hope we get more interesting ideas with PS3 support being dropped.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

So what if it locked off X points or zones etc. If the content was fun and the rewards was worthwhile why would we care. At least it would be something else in the open world and not boring DF all the time. Sometimes I feel like I am just sitting in a lobby atm talking to people.

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Because players have other agendas other than fates and eventually that fate will get boring to the point that not enough players will do it and now we are waiting 15 mins for a lock way point or to speak to a NPC. There will be a uproar and I will be the first to pick up the pitchfork.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

Because players have other agendas other than fates and eventually that fate will get boring to the point that not enough players will do it and now we are waiting 15 mins for a lock way point or to speak to a NPC. There will be a uproar and I will be the first to pick up the pitchfork.

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This is easily fixed though by FATES scaling to how busy the area is. This is already done by NPCS joining FATES. Also SE has enough imagination to stop it getting boring or have they ran out of ideas.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

This is easily fixed though by FATES scaling to how busy the area is. This is already done by NPCS joining FATES. Also SE has enough imagination to stop it getting boring or have they ran out of ideas.

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ANY time you have a closed area be a rarity or not is still an issue for players. Scaling it to be easier is not the issue. It is doing it at all and when a fate is not done it sits there for 15-20 mins taking that point and killing the quest givers or shop keepers. I am not against having fun fates, but any time you exclude a group of players by locking them out from a zone then we have an issue.

I gotta agree with OP! I don't see many people in game who enjoy fates or hear anything positive of them in my groups of gaming friends.

Please STOP with the FATES SE!

It makes me feel really let down that Heavensward was hyped by flying and making an Airship with your FC, and then when it came..we only had access to sending an airship out in a cutscene. What happened to this content from secrets of erozea?

*** Airship will have a captain, and other roles to steer the ship. (Secrets of Eorzea; 07/18/2014)

None of this happened, then Diadem which I guess was the idea?...yeah, that got ignored for a year and a half..nearly the entire life span of the expansion! Only to be re-released as this? FATES? Really?....

As an alternative idea - why not have people do tier force pop NMs like we had in 1.x? Why does everything have to be Fates :(

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Originally Posted by Ryel

Remember Hamlet Defense? It was shelved in 2.0 under the notion that they would be re-added via FATEs, and here we are on the verge of 4.0 with no content that has come close to emulating that style of play.

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Hamlet Defense, how it was during 1.x, will only work as instance.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

ANY time you have a closed area be a rarity or not is still an issue for players. Scaling it to be easier is not the issue. It is doing it at all and when a fate is not done it sits there for 15-20 mins taking that point and killing the quest givers or shop keepers. I am not against having fun fates, but any time you exclude a group of players by locking them out from a zone then we have an issue.

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You keep saying closed off it wouldn't be, you would just have to use those mounts to get there :P

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

You keep saying closed off it wouldn't be, you would just have to use those mounts to get there :P

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And when it comes to timed nodes and hunts, that is a giant chocos butt of a inconvenience.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Misplaced Anger...

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Would you please stop generalizing the community's attitudes by saying everyone hates FATEs? It's not true at all.

Right now it's just the bandwagon theme for everything that is wrong with Diadem. All they did is replace a grind system with another grind system. It just happened to be a FATE system. If they had put another grind system in that wasn't called FATE, people would still be mad about it being a grind system.

But that doesn't even begin to address the many flaws with Diadem. It's simply boring content to begin with. Everything is a grind. 60 minutes to gather 300% progress on a bar, 1 item at a time. Or 60 minutes to kill monsters. And your reward for either of those, is gathering more stuff, or killing more monsters.

The objectives inside are obscure, and have no direction. Everything is mass confusion in an area that supposedly relies on pulling multiple parties together. There is no balance or scaling as far as how many individuals are present in Diadem (especially as it relates to the "special" mission.)

Speaking of the "special" mission, you're dead in two abilities from the first monster, and dead in one ability from anything after. They made it so you can respawn at the entrance, but then you're halfway dead before getting back to the first monster. Completely unbalanced, and reminds me of FFXI's move to everything doing massive AoEs.

Then we get to rewards. Randomized crap that you trade for the real items that everyone wants, which are the spoils. However, they made the spoils so rare, that they might as well be placed on the map at random every 10 Diadem runs or so.

Personal issues with FATEs don't even begin to address the myriad issues with Diadem. It's simply misplaced anger at the candle wicks on top of the Diadem cake. If anything, the FATEs are too short, because they're scaled with the idea that the developers think everyone on the server will be in Diadem. That's just not the case.

As for FATEs everywhere else, they're fine. Some could use adjustments, but for the most part, they are a good alternative to constant dungeon grinding. And they are solid content for casual play styles.

I'd like Hamlet defence back in some form, if only to get access to some type of gathering and crafting FATEs. I know people aren't super keen on FATEs but another option to level up those classes would be nice.

I don't like FATEs, not after they get overused and then forced upon people to the point of nauseousness in the form of atma.

This problem lasted long before diadem, and as long as they remain braindead affairs, it will remain. Diadem is just the latest bout of uncreativity in trying to force players to play them.

What exactly do you want from FATEs they serve their purpose as exp boosters in the open world, without them leve quests is the only open world exp gain and they are the same thing except you don't have to go to an npc every time. Also the "dynamic events" in GW2 were a massive failure most maps that were not end game were completely AI controlled and no one fought for them, so not only would new players joining in see empty zones they would have the game PURPOSELY slowing down their progress via "dynamic event" and in our game were there is already enough massive blockades for new players it is not a smart idea for FATEs to be like this. If anything they just need to give a exp boost to FATEs maybe make them drop a palace of the dead type Hoard that you can redeem at a city for gear and other goodies to get people to at least consider them because at this point they are by far the worst bang for your time, PotD gives random goodies and better exp, dungeons give better exp and gear.

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Originally Posted by MiraKershaw

What exactly do you want from FATEs they serve their purpose as exp boosters in the open world, without them leve quests is the only open world exp gain and they are the same thing except you don't have to go to an npc every time. Also the "dynamic events" in GW2 were a massive failure most maps that were not end game were completely AI controlled and no one fought for them, so not only would new players joining in see empty zones they would have the game PURPOSELY slowing down their progress via "dynamic event" and in our game were there is already enough massive blockades for new players it is not a smart idea for FATEs to be like this. If anything they just need to give a exp boost to FATEs maybe make them drop a palace of the dead type Hoard that you can redeem at a city for gear and other goodies to get people to at least consider them because at this point they are by far the worst bang for your time, PotD gives random goodies and better exp, dungeons give better exp and gear.

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If FATEs are nothing more than a leveling mechanism then that's perfectly fine.

However, SE needs to realize this for it to be true. As it stands though, SE continues to force FATEs through relic grinds (endgame content), seasonal events (other than the one Halloween one which was heralded as the best seasonal event ever in the game because it was unique), mount/card drops, some glamour for the very few level 60 FATEs on multiple day long timers, and now Diadem which is also endgame content (granted it is casual endgame content but it's intended for level 60s nonetheless).

I'm perfectly okay if FATEs are continued to be utilized as open world leveling content, that makes sense. However, if SE is going to ramrod them into all sorts of other things then they need to make an effort to make them more engaging. As it stands there's only 5 or so kinds of FATEs: kill 100s of piss easy mobs that constantly spawn, kill 1 really big mob that is also piss easy but has a lot of HP, kill a bunch of things for drops and turn the drops into an NPC, escort NPC from point a to point b while waves spawn every few minutes, and chain FATEs which are just the first 4 things but they occur in a row.

Ugh I dislike FATEs with a passion. They're boring in objective, pretty much identical from FATE to FATE with the exception of mob skins, tied into some extremely grindy content, and oh my god I hate the FATE music so much I want it to die. xD

Dead to FATEs. (Really, FATEs are the worst in this game by far.)

OMG yes. I could hug you right now. FATEs have to among the most monotonous chore the game offers. I wouldn't be nearly as oppose to them if the devs didn't keep insist on forcing us into them. At least some dynamic event would make them interesting though they would need some sort of mechanics. While Hunts were a decent attempt at world bosses, they quickly became zerg fests since they're generally just souped up trash mobs with massive HP pools.

/raises hand slowly

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I use them to grind for EXP though up to 50. Then I just do dungeons and beast tribes here and there. I wouldn't mind keeping them as long as there are more people around here to do them with. Kinda hard to complete them on your own.

So the wording is a little off; but what I take from this thread is that FATEs are okay, but they could be a whole lot better.
Room to grow, room to improve, still time left to make good on original promises/marketing. Make FATEs great again.

You know 4.0 will full of FATEs. In this case I feel it indifferent. I do it when I need exp while wait for dungeons. And nothing more. I feel indifferent if they decide remove them or keep them.

The fates are really just there to give people direction and not have them stand in one place (dino island) and farm the same things. That's all it really is.

I actually like FATEs, but I just don't do them because I am usually avoiding EXP to keep from getting too far ahead of the MSQ. Otherwise, I would run them more as they give me the chance to utilize more of my toolkit and use my chocobo when fighting something solo. I also benefit from them because I can always use the drops for something. I still farm multi-mob FATEs with my alternate classes when after a particular drop since I don't have a combat retainer, or don't want to wait an hour. I think a difference here though is that I am not forced to do these FATEs for any kind of progression. A higher rate at a targeted mat, and practicing on something more than a dummy are enticing reasons to do a FATE.

When I've had to do them for some kind of progression, I still didn't mind them all that much, but I did have a slight distaste for needing to do a particular FATE, since I would have to wait for it for a 'chance' at a drop.

Unfortunately, I don't really have any suggestions on how to get players to like them more, and actually wish their would be more participants for the FATEs that can't be soloed as I have always had the most fun doing those. Perhaps make those more rewarding?

My opinions on FATEs is this:
It should never be a primary objective.

That's it, it should be just worth your time doing when you stumble on one while doing something else, and nothing more.

FATEs are the epitome of filler content in that they exist to fill out the world but are they really ever exciting or fun to do? Rarely, if ever. I've long felt that FATEs are wasted potential and could actually be exciting if they were developed and treated as more than fly over content.

I can imagine meaningfully losing or saving settlements, being ambushed by bandits looking to make a name for themselves by taking out the WoL, stumbling upon NPC conversations that lead you to dynamically placed treasure or happening upon NPCs summoning something terrifying and stopping them. Instead, a circle spawns somewhere on the map and I choose to go to it or not. This, I feel, is a huge reason why FATEs feel crappy. It may seem minor but I think there is a lot to be said about running into stuff organically.

Do I think they should go away? No. Do I think they can and should be improved? Of course.

I will reiterate what I said in the OP since people seem to have missed int.

FATEs are fine for levelling and they fulfill their purpose

However could be 100 times better than they are.

What I am asking for is for them to either make them interesting, or remove the need to grind them at endgame.
It's levelling content and nothing more. Stop falling back to them as good filler content, when it really isn't.

I'd like to see them be more dynamic. If the same thing happens (the mobs/leftover mobs run away) regardless of winning or failing, then it doesn't really feel like you're doing anything to help the zone. As others mentioned you still have to make it soloable at some point for those that play at off hours or when zones just become dead content for most.

Highbridge is good example of soloing issues. When no one is around it's impossible to solo it as there's so many mobs running around in different directions you simply can't keep up with it on your own. The redbelly fate chains in south shroud are near what I'd like to see, although I think there was a level mistake there when the level 30 fates are to the bottom of the zone and they plopped that lvl 32 chain at the top where the lvl 24-ish fates are.

Perhaps something that would boost people's desire to help and do the fates in the zone while making it more interactive? Save the main base to have a more convenient free central teleport while you're there. Do fates around the base to setup outposts and begin to boost the experience gained in the zone (either a personal stacking buff for participating or stacking zone wide for each outpost). Finally defend the base against an onslaught using bonuses (cannons, traps, etc) gained from successful outpost fates or take on the enemies with your normal skillset. Build upon the fates so the player feels like they're taking part in something grander. If the base succeeds in its defense, have some fates pop up to restock defenses and some fun fates with possible rare bosses or something before another attempt by the enemy is made (each time becoming harder and harder until finally the base is overrun and things start from scratch).

It's easy to fix honestly. Have them reward tomes that can be used to purchase gear that should definitely be another way for people to acquire gear. Add more options for acquiring gear in the game instead of only being able to run dungeons over and over again that will refresh the game. I just hope a developer reads this or a community representative reads this post and forwards them off the idea of doing this as it would greatly improve the game experience. Also to prevent it from being a tag and run off to the next one they must stay until the fate is completed in full in order to acquire the tomes.

I think the FATE system has room to grow if its technically viable. There are some interesting FATEs out there and some pretty cool FATE chains. I don't think the problem is simply FATES but how they are implemented. I think they could make them far more interesting, particularly if they opened up new features in the World.

Fates are very similar to Dolmens in ESO in how they function. Just copy it a bit more. Make them spawn waves of mobs, then a world boss at the end. Let it drop level specific gear and tomestones. Each zone has its own pool of gear it can drop with various stats.

That will supplant dungeons quite nicely. Make them like mini-dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Arthem

In a game where there really isn't much to do outside of daily roulettes and weekly raids, I'd gladly welcome incentive to actually do other content in the game. Even better if they overtuned these fates a bit to make them somewhat challenging so it wasn't just a braindead zerg of weak mobs. Besieged in FFXI worked on the same premise, sort of, and not only was it enjoyable to do, you had a good reason to do it because of this. Taking camps back sucked, sure, but it was all the more reason to protect the city (or in this case, the aetherytes/npcs) so that we wouldn't lose them.

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It wouldn't work in leveling worlds with gathering class content .... The devs would need to dedicate that kind of fate content to a max level open world (example level 70 open world with level 75+ mobs). Don't get me wrong I would love huge open world content where you swarm through open world castles and under ground dungeons/caves in a fate or repeatable random quests.

But again it would have to be a huge epic end game open world location which would take up a lot of resources but it would be worth it if the devs use it for huge events and farm materials to create and upgrade relic weapons and armor. Would love a monster hunter style content where you have to farm materials from multiple bosses that drop the materials needed to upgrade and create relic weapons and armors

I personally like Fates, since i hate Tank roles it helps me level my sword classes and play them as i like, DPS style.

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Originally Posted by Altena

I will reiterate what I said in the OP since people seem to have missed int.

FATEs are fine for levelling and they fulfill their purpose

However could be 100 times better than they are.

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Okay, but you prefaced your argument with, "no one likes FATEs." You used your own opinion, and a broad generalization to create an argument against content that you do not like. You've created a false narrative. You're getting likes on it because of the content, not because of the title. However, that could be misconstrued. There are people who like FATEs. Maybe they don't like them all over Diadem, or how some of them are utilized, but some do like them overall. So it's pretty easy to see how the thread could get off target of it's intended message.

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Originally Posted by Altena

STOP FORCING THESE STUPID FETCH QUESTS DOWN OUR THROATS.

Nobody likes them.
They are not Fun.
They are a waste of time.
And they are ungodly amounts of boring.

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You know, the funny thing about these fetch quests is even they know it's tedious and boring.

Back in 2.0, when attempting to confront Garuda, we were sent on a goose chase for crystals. The joke was the NPC gives you the wrong information for the wrong crystal, you go do the quest, come back, and they tell you to do another. This went on for, I believe 3 quests?
Obviously this is a parody on fetch quests and how annoying they are, but parodies only work if you don't actually make us do what you're making the joke about.

And again, with the mog quests in HW. They were horrendously tedious and boring, and instead of making an effort to make better quests, they embraced it as a running joke for Moogles :/

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Originally Posted by TarynH

Okay, but you prefaced your argument with, "no one likes FATEs." You used your own opinion, and a broad generalization to create an argument against content that you do not like. You've created a false narrative. You're getting likes on it because of the content, not because of the title. However, that could be misconstrued. There are people who like FATEs. Maybe they don't like them all over Diadem, or how some of them are utilized, but some do like them overall. So it's pretty easy to see how the thread could get off target of it's intended message.

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I mean.... If you want to start pulling scemantic cards out, go for it. "Everyone" generally means "the vast majority".... There are always outlyers.

The issue honestly stems from people reading the first line in a thread and immediately start spitting chips.

I mean simply looking at my OP and the first response - how many "likes" they both have is generally a good indicator as to the rough number of people who are for/against a thread..
Currently the OP is 10:1 of people that agree versus those that disagree.. While it's not an exact science, it is a fairly decent indication of whether a post is taken negatively or positively...
If only 10% of the community think a specific piece of content is enjoyable in a game then that to me is a failed piece of content.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

You know, the funny thing about these fetch quests is even they know it's tedious and boring.

Back in 2.0, when attempting to confront Garuda, we were sent on a goose chase for crystals. The joke was the NPC gives you the wrong information for the wrong crystal, you go do the quest, come back, and they tell you to do another. This went on for, I believe 3 quests?
Obviously this is a parody on fetch quests and how annoying they are, but parodies only work if you don't actually make us do what you're making the joke about.

And again, with the mog quests in HW. They were horrendously tedious and boring, and instead of making an effort to make better quests, they embraced it as a running joke for Moogles :/

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While I agree, my statement about Fetch quests was more in reference to FATEs. As they are quite literally overglorified fetch / kill x mob quests.