DEVS: May we PLEASE have an answer regarding the Feast and the Quick Chat feature?

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

I played The Feast in the past and received non-stop harassment and it was a really unenjoyable experience.

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While I don't think anyone is deserving of harassment, I need to echo what has already been said...

Scott, you spearheaded the cause for getting once exclusive pvp rewards removed from their pedestal of prestige. This alone made people dislike you.

Then, you decided you would queue up and try anyway, which I commend you for. This lead to you getting flamed since not only were you unskilled, but everyone knew WHY you were there. Also, I've heard the horror stories of people trying to give you advice, like the classic "I don't use pvp abilities [as whm] because there is no room on my bar."

Again, while nobody is deserving of harassment, it also just didn't come out of nowhere, and the general population of the community is not toxic degenerates like you suggest.

i really dont like the new system you cannot even tell the new people how to play feast.



and why there are the games with no healers or tank. pls implement a minimal 1 tank healer matchup

I've heard tales of people getting reported for Harassment in PvP when all they were doing was playing poorly. The way they implemented this without so much as a "Here's why we think this is needed:" makes me wonder how widespread that practice was.

--Erim Nelhah

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Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

Minion thread was reply'd to and fixed 7 days after it got announced. People didn't get the minions yet, people didn't see the minions yet. Outrage before a feature comes out has been enough in the past and should be enough.

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Ah but there is a key difference here. If they didn't cave in to minion collectors they stood to lose a lot of $ from mog station purchases, collectors editions, soundtracks, etc. that all had a minion attached to them. With the pvp change people might quit feast but still play the game and pay their subscriptions. Very few people would/will quit over that change.

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Originally Posted by Mandudez

Ah but there is a key difference here. If they didn't cave in to minion collectors they stood to lose a lot of $ from mog station purchases, collectors editions, soundtracks, etc. that all had a minion attached to them. With the pvp change people might quit feast but still play the game and pay their subscriptions. Very few people would/will quit over that change.

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That's a good point, but not necessarily 100% accurate. We already know of a few veteran PvP'ers who have unsubbed over this, and quite frankly it doesn't seem like a bad option if you like PvP.

There's not a lot of content to keep us occupied between now and Stormblood, especially if you're not a fan of crafting, gathering, or any of the other monotonous aspects of the game, and you can only farm the same few dungeons/raids for so long. PvP would normally be a nice filler to pass the time, but not anymore. I renewed my sub for 3.5, but once I'm finished with it I don't think I'll be willing to give SE any more of my money. I just don't see a point in paying them for a couple of months of dead content and wasted potential. If they don't care about their own game or the people who play it, then why should we keep feeding them at our own expense?

I know a lot of people say they flame the healers but it doesn't happen as often as people exaggerate. I have played over 900 games, most of them as healer because that's where I do best. When it does happen, yes, a negative experience will hit you hard and it can be demoralizing but the actually very few rude players should be punished, not everyone.

Most of my games have had positive experiences win or lose. People wishing me luck on the next one, trying to help others keep track of the million things to keep track of. It is easy to not notice that someone overfed on stacks and makes an easy target, or someone got marked but you missed it. People used chat to keep others on track, coordinate skills and limit breaks to gain medals, keep others informed of lb status, medals when they needed to be picked up, etc. As a healer I've gained tons of useful tips about positioning, how to handle burst, what to watch out for and when to use a skill to avoid my own demise so I can keep helping my team stay alive as they helped me.

When I tried to branch out from healing players would help me in and out of game to get better, the dueling system really brought that to life as I could exercise that a bit more precisely. They would tell me where I could do better and I have, and I could go from doing awful a game to doing well enough to turn it around with a bit of help from my teammates cause I wanted to win just as they did. I may not be the best player in the feast, nor am I even top 100, but I spend a lot of time in there, and the players in there have been helping me climb and do better each season.

All of that is gone, everything that made it fun or exciting is just bland. There's so many bloat buttons in this new chat system that I don't even say hello anymore. Even then the buttons don't cover even 5% of all the communications we'd need to cover so many different situations, because unlike PvE, Feast was fun because it was always different. You can't plan for things enough to make these buttons the only form of communication. It's just a mess. 4v4's are a disaster and 8v8s are just random with no team coordination, no way to help or introduce new players to the feast. I've even given up healing because I can no longer communicate with my team to ask for help when an enemy player manages to flank and I am sitting in attune hoping they notice. There's just not enough there to cover every single situation, and to do that would be to add upwards of 100 more buttons to my hotbar. Please, implement this as a chat ban, a soft ban for players who continue to be toxic if the problem really is that bad, but for those of us trying to help each other get better and have fun, the chat allowed us to do so. It really helped make the community amazing to be a part of, now it's like a silent ghost town, as if everyone were an NPC.

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Originally Posted by Mandudez

Ah but there is a key difference here. If they didn't cave in to minion collectors they stood to lose a lot of $ from mog station purchases, collectors editions, soundtracks, etc. that all had a minion attached to them. With the pvp change people might quit feast but still play the game and pay their subscriptions. Very few people would/will quit over that change.

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This is a reason given with faulty evidence. Why would THIS minion be the straw that breaks the camels back, when there are several others which were exclusive and now unobtainable?

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

This is a reason given with faulty evidence. Why would THIS minion be the straw that breaks the camels back, when there are several others which were exclusive and now unobtainable?

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You do know that minion collectors are crazy right? Any serious one would NEVER miss one. They grab them the instant that they can. They don't take a break and hope they didn't miss one. That's where you are mistaken. Even if every single person who won the minion from feast was a minion collector there still would be tons of people with an incomplete collection at that point.

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Originally Posted by Mandudez

You do know that minion collectors are crazy right? Any serious one would NEVER miss one. They grab them the instant that they can. They don't take a break and hope they didn't miss one. That's where you are mistaken. Even if every single person who won the minion from feast was a minion collector there still would be tons of people with an incomplete collection at that point.

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I've met plenty without the cait sith doll, and many of them are okay with that.

I did the 30 feast wins for mount and really enjoyed the change. Some games you steam rolled, some you got steam rolled, or occasionally you got the same healer you know would drop like a rock. While it would be nice to tell people to focus that dps he will eat the whole team alive. So less pouting. Less change or else at the beginning as well. If you can't change to healer you shouldn't ask someone else to do it.

It isn't that bad. I have seen one player spam nice job, and we actually came back within a couple points of winning that match. It is about admitting you can't control people to play the way you want and try to adjust. While i would like the tank to lock down the one healer while i try to burst the squishier one if he doesn't I just have to play with him.

While pvp community has been unhappy with this, I am sure all the first time coming to dinner people have enjoyed it. But I am of the opinion that rank should only be premade parties and not solo that is team based. They are conflicting systems.

Also you shouldn't feel so ignored has the way they respond to housing issues and system not shown you anything. Those threads also get moved to housing to die as well sometimes.

It's a little frustrating not being able to chat but if this stops the toxicity then i support it completely.

When i see a pf outright telling new players not to queue for feast to not impact their precious ranking then something is seriously wrong.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

It's a little frustrating not being able to chat but if this stops the toxicity then i support it completely.

When i see a pf outright telling new players not to queue for feast to not impact their precious ranking then something is seriously wrong.

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That is not right and I will agree with you there. The problem is Square should continue to handle this on a case by case basis, rather than punishing the whole community. Imagine if in raids, savage, extremes, dungeons, etc you no longer had chat, just 20 or so buttons you are expected to put on your hotbar to communicate anything and everything in there all because of a few toxic players that only make up a handful of the community? If punishing everyone is seen as the best solution it may extend to that because that is what happened to feast. You can't even work with people or ask for assistance. Communication is just as important for tackling the challenge presented in PvP as it is in PvE.

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Originally Posted by Sherufanir

That is not right and I will agree with you there. The problem is Square should continue to handle this on a case by case basis.

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People keep saying this. SE does not put enough money into the game to handle pvp complaints. It has been clearly hinted that this game does not get the funding it needs (true or not). They can't be case by case pvp issues. I wish we had better support though maybe a few less bots and such but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

When i see a pf outright telling new players not to queue for feast to not impact their precious ranking then something is seriously wrong.

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Where do you even see this? People keep describing this instances of extreme toxicity but I've never seen something like this, or even close.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Where do you even see this? People keep describing this instances of extreme toxicity but I've never seen something like this, or even close.

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I've seen other players get chewed out. Not the most toxic community I've seen in an mmo by a longshot. Its mostly the amount of thin skinned people in pvp that get their feelings hurt when you tell them how to do better, regardless of approach.

Me: "ahh, don't forget to turn on one of your stances, AST"
Them: "Omg dont tell me how to play you're just a monk noob!"
Me: "I've got a leveled AST too though"
Them: "Elitist no lifer don't tell me how to play its my sub and I'm just here for tomes anyway!" *proceeds to feed other team to end round sooner, causing them to get chewed out by the rest of the party and then they tell the world how toxic the pvp community is*

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Originally Posted by Ragology

I've seen other players get chewed out. Not the most toxic community I've seen in an mmo by a longshot. Its mostly the amount of thin skinned people in pvp that get their feelings hurt when you tell them how to do better, regardless of approach.

Me: "ahh, don't forget to turn on one of your stances, AST"
Them: "Omg dont tell me how to play you're just a monk noob!"
Me: "I've got a leveled AST too though"
Them: "Elitist no lifer don't tell me how to play its my sub and I'm just here for tomes anyway!" *proceeds to feed other team to end round sooner, causing them to get chewed out by the rest of the party and then they tell the world how toxic the pvp community is*

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Nailed it!

Compared to games like DOTA, LoL, and even Overwatch XIV was a hug box before they muzzled everyone.

It's the belligerent attitude of WEH WEH DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO from whiny babies that landed us in this shit box.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

I've seen other players get chewed out. Not the most toxic community I've seen in an mmo by a longshot. Its mostly the amount of thin skinned people in pvp that get their feelings hurt when you tell them how to do better, regardless of approach.

Me: "ahh, don't forget to turn on one of your stances, AST"
Them: "Omg dont tell me how to play you're just a monk noob!"
Me: "I've got a leveled AST too though"
Them: "Elitist no lifer don't tell me how to play its my sub and I'm just here for tomes anyway!" *proceeds to feed other team to end round sooner, causing them to get chewed out by the rest of the party and then they tell the world how toxic the pvp community is*

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That is more common in duty finder then pvp. I rarely see advice givin and the amount I do is usually one person acting like the lead and everyone follows. So that is the other thing that confuses me, why is chat taking off in pvp only when in DF people are toxic there too? For he new void ark I would explain how to dodge things and what to look for and I was told "shut up" (and half the alliance continues to get hit by the move that keeps killing half the alliance)

God forbid people actually listen in normal df and say "use lbs when the countdown reaches 4" (5 seconds without a countdown someone randomly pulls)

So that is my biggest confusion, are people really more toxic in feast then in normal DF? because I usually see the worst harassment in DFs.

It wouldnt be so bad if they would allow you to report people with the right click option in chat. Someone called my wife a bitch today in pvp. I tried to find a report option on the chat but go figure, it was only for RMT activity. I could have reported the hard way but it should be easier and more simple. That would probably fix a lot of the toxicity in pve and pvp alike. It should also be against terms of service to go out of your way to act maliciously towards another player in any way. (not sure if it is or is not) That and they need moderators who can temp ban or mute people..Of course make it hard to become a mod and severe punishment for abusing the authority. If a mod saw my wifes earlier conversation the other party could have been muted for say.. 1 real hour and continuing to get into trouble would increase the duration leading into eventual permanent ban by official GMs.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Where do you even see this? People keep describing this instances of extreme toxicity but I've never seen something like this, or even close.

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On my server obviously.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

When i see a pf outright telling new players not to queue for feast to not impact their precious ranking then something is seriously wrong.

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Even if this is true, that's not necessarily toxic. Telling someone that they should not queue for ranked Feast is subjective. If it's worded bluntly, then I'm sure it seems hurtful, but that's not really any different from telling a new person in a savage raid that they shouldn't queue for a "CLEAR" party before doing a learning party. There are varying degrees of diplomatic ways of breaking that news to someone, but the bottom line is that if you're not ready then you're not ready. It might hurt your ego, but that doesn't mean it's a toxic comment unless it's worded extremely harshly.

Real toxic or abusive chat would be more along the lines of telling someone that they're

"a steaming pile of dog-****, born from the festering remains of a broken ****** and a failed ********, and that they should go practice blowing *** bubbles at the nearest truck stop instead of wasting everyone's mother-****ing time by proving how utterly **** they are in Feast.

Now THAT is toxic chat. Just typing something like that as an example could very well get me banned from the forums ... (I may edit this post, but you get the point). By comparison, telling someone that they shouldn't queue for a specific game mode is rather tame. It's also not the type of comment found exclusively in PvP, so if that's the standard that SE is going by then they very clearly missed the mark by a pretty dramatic margin.

How do I even say anything in pvp? I used the auto translator and still says unable to use chat?

Where is the explanation on why this happened and how to deal with it and what is allowed to say?

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

How do I even say anything in pvp? I used the auto translator and still says unable to use chat?

Where is the explanation on why this happened and how to deal with it and what is allowed to say?

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Under Actions & traits there is a PVP tab on the left. Choose that, you should see your pvp abilities and below that buttons for everything you can say in feast.

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Originally Posted by Sherufanir

Under Actions & traits there is a PVP tab on the left. Choose that, you should see your pvp abilities and below that buttons for everything you can say in feast.

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.. oh lord

they should did more to explain this and get that news out like tips in the game or something

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

.. oh lord

they should did more to explain this and get that news out like tips in the game or something

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There are 0 active help options to help explain pvp. As a Brd or Mch there is damage drop off based on distance. You can use purify on others. Unless you've kept up with the pvp patch notes youll miss things like that as many abilities do differ in pvp versus their pve counterparts. It relies heavily on the community teaching each other.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

They should did more to explain this and get that news out like tips in the game or something

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This is the major problem with PVP right now. It is not new player friendly at all and players need to read patch notes and guides in order to get an idea on how to PVP.
There is no explanation in game at all on Key PVP actions and points. This is the major problem with "Toxicity" before the chat ban.


New players or even old players that didn't understand key mechanics of feast, frustrations arose because of the limited amount of time there is to teach players at the start of a match.
IMO there really was no Toxic behavior, just a lot of misunderstood information and a lack of knowledge.

For example, sometimes you would see players that would que up for pvp with ilvl 100 or below gear on, but they would probably have enough gear above i200 to meet the i150 cap in PVP.
This caused players HP to be very low, and if you tried to explain to the new PVPer that they needed i190+ in every slot to meet the max caps they wouldn't understand. It isn't explained anywhere at all about max caps and the que system for Feast allows players do this, this causes frustrations.

In order to learn about the feast game mode you had to go on the lodestone and read up on it. There is no clear in game guide at all or explanation so when things went wrong due to lack of knowledge this caused frustrations.

A lot of players don't even know that protect, defense etc do not work in PVP and that each job/class has a fixed amount of Vulnerability and Attack power bonus, you have to dive back into patch 2.4 patch notes to read this. A lot of changes to feast, jobs and Mechanics you need to do research on. It shouldn't be like this at all these things should be in game for new players to read and practice.

https://puu.sh/ratgE/8472e991bf.png

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

This is the major problem withPVP right now. It is not new player friendly at all and players need to read patch notes and guides in order to get an idea on how to PVP.
There is no explanation in game at all on Key PVP actions and points. This is the major problem with "Toxicity" before the chat ban.


New players or even old players that didn't understand key mechanics of feast, frustrations arose because of the limited amount of time there is to teach players at the start of a match.
IMO there really was no Toxic behavior, just a lot of misunderstood information and a lack of knowledge.

For example, sometimes you would see players that would que up for pvp with ilvl 100 or below gear on, but they would probably have enough gear above i200 to meet the i150 cap in PVP.
This caused players HP to be very low, and if you tried to explain to the new PVPer that they needed i190+ in every slot to meet the max caps they wouldn't understand. It isn't explained anywhere at all about max caps and the que system for Feast allows players do this, this causes frustrations.

In order to learn about the feast game mode you had to go on the lodestone and read up on it. There is no clear in game guide at all or explanation so when things went wrong due to lack of knowledge this caused frustrations.

A lot of players don't even know that protect, defense etc do not work in PVP and that each job/class has a fixed amount of Vulnerability and Attack power bonus, you have to dive back into patch 2.4 patch notes to read this. A lot of changes to feast, jobs and Mechanics you need to do research on. It shouldn't be like this at all these things should be in game for new players to read and practice.

https://puu.sh/ratgE/8472e991bf.png

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What is this BS? so basically you are telling me SE has no clue in balancing PvP nor program the game? I.. I hear you say protect does not effect pvp.. and i am sitting here.. saying.. REALLY??? are you sure?

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

What is this BS? so basically you are telling me SE has no clue in balancing PvP nor program the game? I.. I hear you say protect does not effect pvp.. and i am sitting here.. saying.. REALLY??? are you sure?

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Yeah any skill that says "Increases the Defense of target/self" (As well as the defense/Magic defense stat on your gear) has no effect in PVP zones. New players don't know this and it is not explained anywhere at all except for old patch notes.

The only thing Protect and Foresight are good for is making "Fake Buffs" .
For example if you have protect up and a Astrologian uses Retrogradation on you to remove one of your buffs, there is a chance it will remove protect instead of one of your helpful buffs.

There are a lot of other things as well, like what Sherufanir said above me about Ranged DPS distance, or the fact that Magic Damage does 50% less damage to the Ice in Shatter mode than Melee or Ranged DPS.

I would of listened to feedback in my feast runs, but I wasn't met with anything useful. I just got called gay slurs, and told to heal, but no one helped me specifically when I was messing up.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I would of listened to feedback in my feast runs, but I wasn't met with anything useful. I just got called gay slurs, and told to heal, but no one helped me specifically when I was messing up.

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They actually ban pretty quickly for calling people gay slurs. If people reported those slur slingers wouldn't have their account for very long.

Maybe a compromise of allowing chat in premade but not for solo feast because that's where all the toxicity is.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

Maybe a compromise of allowing chat in premade but not for solo feast because that's where all the toxicity is.

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You shouldn't have to compromise on this.

Chats are essential to RANKED modes. Solo, or not. Communication is too important to just dump. Just because a few individuals went ham on people, doesn't make SE course of action right.

Solution is simply handle the those who cannot control their tempers. Blocking chat is moronic.

It's kinda dumb to ban chatting in PvP just because they don't want people to bash each other.

If someone can't stand trash talking, it means they're not tough enough for PvP to begin with.

It's hard to communicate and almost impossible to turn the tide when you can't talk.

i have never actually cared about or even noticed people insulting me but the onus isn't on the people being mistreated to not be bothered when people are offensive.

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Originally Posted by DWARF_INTENSIFIES

i have never actually cared about or even noticed people insulting me but the onus isn't on the people being mistreated to not be bothered when people are offensive.

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I agree. People who are insulted or mistreated have every right to be upset about it and complain to a GM. But, to blanket ban everyone from chat because there were several toxic players was the wrong decision.

Right decision:
Implement a better faster method for reporting abusers.
First time abusers should receive a 3 day ban from feast.
Second time abusers should receive a 3 day ban from the game.
Third time abusers should receive a permanent ban from feast for that season and a 7 day ban from the game.
Fourth time abusers should receive a permanent ban from all future feast seasons.

That's more than sufficient a punishment system and directly addresses the problem instead of side-stepping the issue with a blanket chat ban.

Dev Team:

Thankyou OP for your request for a defenitive answer regarding the removal of the chat feature in Feast. This has been a largly debated topic, with both sides making respectable observations. Thankfully, after much debate, we have finally been able to come up with a decision regarding speech in feast:



Shhhhhhhhhhhhh!



We hope this decision will continue to facilitate your individual enjoyment of FFXIV. thanks again.