Jump Potion...again

Not everyone will go for the potion. And I hope they price it higher than 18$.

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Originally Posted by Celef

If they want to skip story fine, there mistake but don't give them a lvl 60 toon OR, give us a way to identify them so we are not forced to play with people who won't have a single idea of what to do, there already is too many currently

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Segregation, what a thoughtful approach. I'm sure SE will do well with that.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Not everyone will go for the potion. And I hope they price it higher than 18$.

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My guess is they may include a free one with the expansion itself. Either way, the price will probably be $50-60. Same price WoW charges for theirs. I do hope they make Hall of the Novice/Intermediate mandatory though.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Segregation, what a thoughtful approach. I'm sure SE will do well with that.

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It's a fair request. A lot of the players who pay their way through content are going to be...less than stellar to put it mildly. WoW is an excellent example of that - players paying to skip large swathes of content only to have very little grasp of the game outright or simply beyond the end game content.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Segregation, what a thoughtful approach. I'm sure SE will do well with that.

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So basically i'm expected to play with player not knowing what to do because they did not want / did not see it relevant to take the time to learn their job and just be happy about that ?
We already have too many people no knowing what to do, why should I be happy about SE giving us more of them ?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

A lot of the players who pay their way through content are going to be...less than stellar to put it mildly.

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A lot of players already are less than stellar >_>

Wouldn't it be more efficient to measure people's performance and then give them the tag depending on how they perform regardless of how they got to endgame? If performance is a concern, the criterion should be performance, not the assumption of a certain performance.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

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Well, yes - it's a mixed bag at the moment though the majority of my runs are largely very smooth with a few bad apples here and there. It was much the same when I played WoW. Then, when the equivalent of a 'jump potion' was added there the quality became less of a mixed bag and more a case of bad apples being far more common.

A lot of us - myself included - invested a lot of time and effort into WoW or other similar MMO's. FFXIV serves as a breath of fresh air because it hasn't yet gone down a similar path. WoW didn't become like it is in the present day over the course of a single night, it happened steadily over time. Some of us are well aware as to what such a slippery slope entails. Do you really believe that, if a 'jump potion' becomes a thing there won't be other paid advantages added in the future? It pretty much shifts the Mog Station from being 'cosmetics only' to something more dubious.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a fair request. A lot of the players who pay their way through content are going to be...less than stellar to put it mildly. WoW is an excellent example of that - players paying to skip large swathes of content only to have very little grasp of the game outright or simply beyond the end game content.

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No, it isn't. Ironically, it's the same elitism people accuse hardcore raiders of. Should I assume all people who aren't clearing Savage suck? After all, I'm almost through A12S. And everyone who has already cleared should look down on me as a complete scrub they wouldn't dare play with.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

No, it isn't. Ironically, it's the same elitism people accuse hardcore raiders of. Should I assume all people who aren't clearing Savage suck? After all, I'm almost through A12S. And everyone who has already cleared should look down on me as a complete scrub they wouldn't dare play with.

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There is a difference between being elitist and expect people to take some times to learn their job. Those people will ding 60 and probably try dungeons asap without reading their spells -_-
If I encounter someone having difficulties I always try my best to help if I know the class (and even if I don't I try speculate with him and take the time to try things) but if I encounter someone who skipped it via a potion AND has difficulties...han han, sorry but he had it coming.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

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People have the right to screen players as they see fit though. I can't recall the exact phrasing used but in dungeons it's perfectly acceptable to kick players for 'differences in playstyle' if there's a problem with their performance. Elitism isn't necessarily always a bad thing- I'm generally pretty easy going and will do my best to help people through a dungeon even we wipe again and again so long as they're trying. Others won't be so patient, however - and I don't blame them given how valuable free time can be. A player who seeks to skip large swathes of the game's content to only focus on the end game isn't...really somebody I want to interact with.

If that mentality becomes the norm then it will very likely lead to old content being left to stagnate. This is, to some extent, inevitable - but it could cause a major shift in development to the point where only the end game matters and little else; much like what WoW succumbed to in its later years.

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Originally Posted by Celef

There is a difference between being elitist and expect people to take some times to learn their job. Those people will ding 60 and probably try dungeons asap without reading their spells -_-
If I encounter someone having difficulties I always try my best to help if I know the class (and even if I don't I try speculate with him and take the time to try things) but if I encounter someone who skipped it via a potion AND has difficulties...han han, sorry but he had it coming.

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Because he doesn't enjoy the story and didn't want to spend 60+ hours spamming esc/numpad 0? Once again, that sounds like elitism. I joined a static with members who have cleared A3S before any nerfs despite having no prior raid experience. My only clears at the time were A9S and A10S. They still took me and the raid leader offered some constructive feedback. Comparing this your statement, I should have been shunned away because I wasn't good enough. You're assuming someone is trash because they skipped story-- in the same manner elitist players assume people who haven't cleared equally challenging content are also trash. Would you judge Mizzteq? She's openly admitted to having skipped all the cut scenes and basically plays only for endgame raiding or to make her guides for the community. Or what about my quote earlier? I leveled through potd and fates. So what exactly did all those dungeons teach me? I didn't even level my two current mains through any of them.

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Originally Posted by Celef

If I encounter someone having difficulties I always try my best to help if I know the class (and even if I don't I try speculate with him and take the time to try things) but if I encounter someone who skipped it via a potion AND has difficulties...han han, sorry but he had it coming.

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And that's elitism... the same as to expect a new raider who 'skipped' A1s-A8s, now starting with their first raid ever in A9s, to do the other ones (including level 50 synch Coils). Because how should they have learned raiding without that and why should they allowed to learn raiding in current content?

I rather teach someone with an empty head, than someone with a head already filled with the most stupid things... like teaching a new lvl 60 healer to get used to dps right away without him saying "I did 150h of playtime fine with doing no damage in dungeons."

I rather teach someone new than someone who still didn't got all those things MSQ supposedly teaches a new player according to you. Still, after 168h of playing.
And you're concerned about player quality? Then kick those scrubs...

You rather help such a person than a blank sheet?

Definitly like Bourne say.
I know MOST people just skip the story and lvling only in fates.
Back in 2.0 I knew a lot of people lvl 50 without touching any dungeons.
I see a LOT of people that have done dungeons and still doesn't know any BASIC of the job.
TBH the jump potion is not a problem, like really. The only thing that gonna do is helping people that only care about end-game and don't want to spend times in useless quests.

edit: I have read EVERY quest in the game (MSQ not all side quests) and sometimes that was REALLY boring. A lot of them are filling quests for exp only.
The story isn't bad but all these filling quests really ruin it.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

People have the right to screen players as they see fit though. I can't recall the exact phrasing used but in dungeons it's perfectly acceptable to kick players for 'differences in playstyle' if there's a problem with their performance. Elitism isn't necessarily always a bad thing- I'm generally pretty easy going and will do my best to help people through a dungeon even we wipe again and again so long as they're trying. Others won't be so patient, however - and I don't blame them given how valuable free time can be. A player who seeks to skip large swathes of the game's content to only focus on the end game isn't...really somebody I want to interact with.

If that mentality becomes the norm then it will very likely lead to old content being left to stagnate. This is, to some extent, inevitable - but it could cause a major shift in development to the point where only the end game matters and little else; much like what WoW succumbed to in its later years.

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Except that isn't what is being discussed. You're advocating for segregation on the basis someone who purchased a skip potion would automatically be a terrible player, unwilling to learn. Celef outright admittedly they wouldn't even help them; instead gloating over their inexperience because, and I quote, "they had it coming." I'll reiterate once more, how does someone who skipped differentiate from someone who leveled through potd or fates? Guess we shouldn't interact with them. After all, they missed out that oh so valuable dungeon experience. That same dungeon experience where I'll be spamming Impulse Drive or Fire/Blizzard 1 until level 30. Riveting, by the way.

Honestly, good. There comes a time when old content needs to die. I've only played since last year and am already a little tied of being dragged back into old Primals or dungeons. I can only sympathize with people who have stayed subbed for three years. I either want all the EX Primals bumped up to 70 to reassert their challenge or leave them be for new content. Keeping old content alive is nice, but it eventually just becomes a bore.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a fair request.

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I don't consider segregation a fair request as player skill will always be an issue as it comes down to the individual player's willingness.

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Originally Posted by Celef

So basically i'm expected..

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You are expecting a Corporation to Segregate and Label it's consumers. What about these ppl that already do not know what to do now? How do you want SE to handle them as well since it is your main argument in every thread?

Outside of normal DF, you have friends, FCs, Linkshells, Party Finder and Raid Finder in which you can setup basic requirements. Then, you can weed out players even further to tailor your needs. We all deal with this.

Unless you want the targeted audience to be even smaller and filtered which comes with a heavy price.

Like I said, do not care about them skiping the MSQ, having issue with them being given a lvl 60 toon with just a click.
How many more ice mage will we get ?
How many more SMN that do not manage their pet ?
How many more strenght WAR ?

Edit : i can't believe you'r actually happy about that

I can understand seasoned players finding low level content 'boring' yet they really need to think back to the days when they, too, were new and everything was fresh and exciting. If it wasn't ever fresh and exciting for them than that raises questions as to why they invested in the game to begin with. Adding a 'jump potion' for players who have already completed the 2.0 and 3.0 story wouldn't be terrible - it'd allow people to invest more in alts and still ensure that the developers make an additional profit without compromising the game to the extent they would if they were to add a way for new players to skip everything.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Edit : i can't believe you'r actually happy about that

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I just don't care, why someone is bad. I have to deal with bad players all the time, just go alex normal and almost no one plays on a level even remotly close to an 'advanced or more professional level' you should expect after 100, 200 or 300 hours of playtime...

Right now they could have bought the account or overtook it, been carrried through everything unsynched or they could just not learn anything on purpose or they played 'till 60 as tank and switched to healer/dps right after and leveld this job with fates and PotD.

You can't tell the difference and I don't care.

But I assume fresh players are more willing to learn than players who adapted bad habits for more than 100h.

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How many more ice mage will we get ?

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Same percentage of players who already do the Ice Mage thing.

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How many more SMN that do not manage their pet ?

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Same percentage of players who already don't know how to manage their pets.

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How many more strength WAR ?

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The same percentage that-Actually, no, all three of these examples were absolutely terrible. Seriously? You bring up the Ice Mage thing as a legit example? AND the WARs who purposefully would stack STR? Are you actually trying to make valid points or are you just another person you sits around on and kinda hears people mention things and echos them because you just don't understand?

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Edit : i can't believe you'r actually happy about that

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There are only so few who are truly ecstatic about the pots. The rest of us don't care or are thinking how people and players actually function in this game. "Suddenly all the games populations will be the bads and not do things right!" What makes a person good at what they do is how much they actually care. Dragging through 100+ dungeon runs won't make someone care anymore or less. Main Story sure as shit aint gonna do that either. If someone is actually conscious about doing things right, they'll make sure they are ready, how they got there be damned.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

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Oh and could you tell me why my examples are bad considering you seem to have noticed something I did not ?

The 60 levels act as a filter imho, if someone is interested enought he'll take the time and put effort in leveling his toon. With an insta potion, everyone, even the guys who saw light and decided to give it a try without caring about anything will join duty. Some may be and probably will be good but how many ? It just looks like a new cash grab in my eyes

No, it won't be the 'same percentage' at all. Let's not be dishonest about this. Yes, there's players at the moment who don't pay attention to their rotation or mechanics. Nobody is contesting that - the concern is that inevitably players skipping large portions of content will result in more players having a poor understanding of the game. Say what you will about the levelling process but it does, at least, encourage players to learn something during their journey. Buying their way into the endgame scene doesn't.

This exact same situation has already played out within WoW anyway. Thus why a lot of us feel so strongly about it. We've seen the effects, the slippery slope it leads to and the apathy of 'it doesn't affect me'.

Just to be sure everyone know it.
The jump potion is to be lvl 50, not 60.
If someone want to learn the job it's the perfect lvl to try out a rotation.
Before lvl 40 there is litteraly nothing to learn, like really. I haven't learn anything before being lvl max in 2.0 except basic stuff you already know from any games. (if you spend a minute to read the desc skill)
Like you say "Let's not be dishonest", except if someone is new in games in general (not especially in MMO or FF, just games), there is no differences how a game work.
I see a pack of mob. I have an aoe skill. I gonna use it. (after checking if it's worth it on that amount of mob obviously)
I see I have a 24s buff if I use that skill; I use it and I'll refresh it later. Check the potency, is that dot worth it if the mob gonna die in 10sec? Probably not, use the normal combo.
This is basic, you have these basics stuff in every games. (please let's not compare "snake" on phone and ff, that's not work except "avoid the ball/aoe" in some snake game)

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Originally Posted by Celef

Oh and could you tell me why my examples are bad considering you seem to have noticed something I did not ?

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Because you are actually trying to legit tell me someone is playing a BLM and ONLY using Ice Spells because they don't know any better? You are seriously saying that at any point they played BLM they never once looked at their tooltips and their traits or used a fire spell? That they never once did anything but use Ice spells out of innocent curiosity? No, they truly never thought no other abilities existed. And you are saying that this is 100% the only thing that can happen if a person uses a jump pot?


These are tremendous leaps and bounds of logic here.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

No, it won't be the 'same percentage' at all. Let's not be dishonest about this. Yes, there's players at the moment who don't pay attention to their rotation or mechanics. Nobody is contesting that - the concern is that inevitably players skipping large portions of content will result in more players having a poor understanding of the game. Say what you will about the levelling process but it does, at least, encourage players to learn something during their journey. Buying their way into the endgame scene doesn't.

This exact same situation has already played out within WoW anyway. Thus why a lot of us feel so strongly about it. We've seen the effects, the slippery slope it leads to and the apathy of 'it doesn't affect me'.

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You aren't contesting the fact but you sure do like to put it to the wayside when it doesn't favor your argument. If the leveling process were a perfect system and ensured everyone capable and willing to perform at their best all the time, then you'd have an argument. But it doesn't, and so you don't. There is absolutely no guarantee that the pot will ensure a player is bad, especially if they come with experience from another game that has any resemblance of a concept with the trinity or enmity and dps generation.

WoW always had terrible players, but you would deal with them and move on. Only when changes to the game made you realize that not every player was the best did those bad players suddenly become a lot more noticeable, and harder to ignore. Because you suddenly had this one thing you could tie in to why there were bad. This magical scapegoat that appeared that possibly had no relation to their inferior skills whatsoever! Of course you wouldn't know that, but it was out in the open and advertised so you latched onto to it and now suddenly every terrible player clearly was because boosts and poor balancing.

If a player turns out bad at a game, they were always going to be bad. It doesn't make someone who's good suddenly worse.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Because you are actually trying to legit tell me someone is playing a BLM and ONLY using Ice Spells because they don't know any better? You are seriously saying that at any point they played BLM they never once looked at their tooltips and their traits or used a fire spell? That they never once did anything but use Ice spells out of innocent curiosity?

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How could they if they ding 60 and insta queue to do the end game content ?

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Because you are actually trying to legit tell me someone is playing a BLM and ONLY using Ice Spells because they don't know any better? You are seriously saying that at any point they played BLM they never once looked at their tooltips and their traits or used a fire spell? That they never once did anything but use Ice spells out of innocent curiosity? No, they truly never thought no other abilities existed. And you are saying that this is 100% the only thing that can happen if a person uses a jump pot?


These are tremendous leaps and bounds of logic here.

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I've met plenty of ice mages. Not a single one that I spoke to was out of sheer ignorance. They were all willfully bad. People that don't care will never start caring. People that do care will put in their homework. Jumps don't change this.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Edit : i can't believe you'r actually happy about that

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From having played MMOs for 16 years I've dealt with plenty of change. I adapt to certain things and move forward. I've achieved many things before they were changed in the future. The accomplishments themselves, some taking multiple years, don't change. Other players didn't get the experiences, challenges, and memories I have.

• In XI, there were plenty of ppl that bought their way to a relic or cleared CoP after its initial systems and mechanics changed.
• In 1.0, I experienced things 2.0 players will likely never see.
• My 1.0 Legacy items have meaning and memories behind them, not just simple glamour or bragging rights.
• 2.0 - 2.5 I helped many new 2.0 and returning 1.0 players of various skill as much as their were willing to learn with HM/EX to coil on 2 characters.

I do not get worked up on changes, especially with so little details so far. With the potions its no surprise to me, as I expected them at some point with the way the industry has been changing.

The point is, for 16 yrs I've dealt with different player skills. My like-minded and skilled friends and groups I've met along the way were there. I have even more in-game tools and systems at my disposal now than I ever did for specific content needs.

There is skill in the job/class you are playing, but also the learning of the content thrown at us as well. I have always helped ppl willing to learn. For players I can't help for various reasons, I have a ToS to follow and utilize properly.

The reason why I brought up specific experiences and meaning, is that is what matters to me. A new jump potion player will never have those.

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Originally Posted by Celef

How could they if they ding 60 and insta queue to do the end game content ?

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The jump would be implemented for 4.0. They would jump to 60, endgame content starts at 70. This was clear in the interview translations. They would have to still go through the 4.0 patch MSQ and content before even touching lvl70 endgame.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

This game doesn't become MMO until you hit the current content. Before that, it's a single player RPG with a sub. Jumping will be necessary to get new players eventually.

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The biggest difference is a great deal of WoW feels like dead weight right now. I can actually still play and enjoy older content in FF14. If a Jump Potion ever became necessary, it honestly feels like that'd best be reserved for later on. There's a margin of bias in my words, naturally as I'm against this, but it feels too early for it either way.

The more time I spend on this forums the less I understand the community.
Everytime someone says relics takes too long to do or craft takes too long to lvl (in there opinio) they are called lazy and here, we are basically arguing regarding and insta gratification potion ^^"

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Originally Posted by Celef

The more time I spend on this forums the less I understand the community.
Everytime someone says relics takes too long to do or craft takes too long to lvl (in there opinio) they are called lazy and here, we are basically arguing regarding and insta gratification potion ^^"

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It's the unfortunate Achilles Heel of MMO(RPG)'s overall. Everyone has their own pace of gaming, and it is for the company's favor to adhere to the pace. It's this very favor that can work against the company however, if not balanced properly. Either way, there's no winning in the eyes of the people, as there's is no such thing as something that fits the pace/preference of every customer. Though, it's neither the customer or company's fault.

ive posted this in the last 7 threads this week but im personally against them.

ive seen people level up entirely in potd...and then have no idea what the hell they're doing...especially with the last boss that requires some resemblance of tactics

so..the idea of "let's make it worse to drink the stuff and ding 60?"

naw

Definitely not against jump potions, and really do hope they are added one day :)

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Originally Posted by Celef

How could they if they ding 60 and insta queue to do the end game content ?

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1. They can't do endgame content, that's level 70.

2. Who do you think will be a better player soon and be content to hear to advice? A player playing this game all the way to SB over 2 years who I give advice. Or a player just picking that game up and having a bit rough time in their first dungeon (whichever not-endgame dungeon that is and after whatever prerequisites for queuing into group content there are), who I'll give advice?

3. If willingly to learn and having fun: Perfect. Bam, on friendlist. A few weeks and he will be a passable player, who I'll gladly show all the old contents, too. If he wants to.
But sticking with a leaf all the 168h? Way more unlikely and now, with SB coming out and HW counted in in it's more likely 250h, especially in the 2-3 months SB is new and already subbing people are more concerned about the new stuff and neglect level 50/60 roulette (and especially MSQ roulette even more than now) in favor of doing SB MSQ and unlocking new stuff.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Do you really believe that, if a 'jump potion' becomes a thing there won't be other paid advantages added in the future?

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You mean...like paid retainers? Level potions aren't exactly the first step of the slippery slope, they're already the second.

That aside: It's fair game to be concerned about player quality - the thing is just that if you want some means of quality control, all players should equally be subjected to it, not just the people who jump, because the non-jumpers can be bad apples as well and jumpers can also not be bad apples. Instead of generalizing, you should check each player individually.

In other words, you'd need skill checks. Mandatory Stone, Sky, Sea can work well for DPS, but you'd also need something more sophisticated for Healers and Tanks. You'd then get rated based on your performance and get matched in duty finder with players of similar performance - redo the test if you want to improve your rating. A concept that's fairly similar to Elo in PvP games.

And I'd be the first to consider purposely botching up the test to make my queues a little bit less horrible, because I know if I gave it my all, I'd suffer 30+ minute queues for something as simple as expert >_>

No problem you jump the MSQ. Even without the potion, you can skip the cutscene anyhow. The problem is jumping the leveling, which indeed breaks the balance and harms the game.
Somebody has already suggested, a better solution is SE adjust the MSQ into a shorter one. But obviously, SE won' t do it until it is urgently necessary, for this may cost too much.

I'm against it. If the cutscene skipping and rushing is bad now, I can imagine it will be even worse then. And FFXIV isn't a single player at all during the early levels. It doesn't have to be coil to count as multiplayer. Early dungeons do serve to help new players get the grip of the workings, rather than jumping straight into endgame content. In any case, what really bothers me is that skippers often come across as very little welcoming to others. Not to group everyone in a box, but that's my impression.

I'm of two minds on the subject of a jumping potion:

On the one hand, I appreciate this game for its story and I think that it's an important aspect of player retention and creating enfranchised players. On top of that, the MSQ spends a lot of time slowly introducing new players to the various aspects of the game. Taking real world time and "running reps" of certain skills as you go through the game DOES make a difference in how people play. I have a few FC-mates that I play with who leveled alt jobs primarily via Palace of the Dead and it shows in how they play. They've admitted it themselves, even. Thankfully, they also went and took the time to learn how they should be playing in the "real" world.

On the other hand, I have had several experienced MMO players who wanted to play FFXIV (my brother included) who ended up dropping out due to the tedium that is inherent in the 2.0 story. It's a common complaint among new players in my FC. As I'm going through the story again on an alt, I've realized that it's really not THAT good. It's better than most MMO stories, but it's not so crucial that skipping 2.0 would be the end of the world. Anyone skipping would miss out on a lot of lore and world-building, unfortunately.

One of the biggest arguments I've seen against the jump potion is the idea that it will swarm us with new and inexperienced players. I can't argue against this, as that is exactly what would happen. I just don't think it's the end of the world. I'd rather encounter someone who is "bad" because they're new and open to feedback/help, which has been my experience with most new players, than encounter someone who is "bad" and has multiple (or all) 60's and should know better.

Getting an influx of new players isn't going to kill the game. Playing with people who "haven't paid their dues" isn't going to kill this game. What very well *might* kill this game is for it to be come too daunting a task for a new player to come in and be able to play the current content (even though the old stuff is still plenty of fun) in a reasonable amount of time. I don't think we've reached that point, but by the end of 4.0, I feel like we absolutely will have. They'll either need to provide a streamlined experience (which would be a shame for those people who really want to experience the story) or provide a jumping potion and if the player becomes invested in the world, let them go back through the story on an alt or something.

I do not see what the big deal is about adding jump potions. This is a large game that has only gotten larger with content, and will continue to get larger as time goes on with expansions and patches. The MSQ is getting unreasonably long to go through for new players and also veteran players with alts.

As enjoyable as the story is and the cutscenes used to tell it, I think the average person does not enjoy HOW you progress in it. What I mean is having to read or skip a bunch of text and the constant talking, travelling, and teleporting that almost seems endless. Its not so bad when we did it, but you have to remember that by the time Stormblood is released, this game will be almost 4 years old. Thats 4 years of patches and additions that new players are going to be forced through. I am willing to bet that a lot newbies would get bored of it before even getting to the expansion.

A jump potion would also be a welcome addition to veterans who want to make an alt. I do not know about you all, but I have have leveled 2 characters to 60, and perhaps I would like to have a third character, but I am not going to do the MSQ for a third time. I am sorry. That second time I did in on my alt was a chore.

Honestly, I think jump potions are a good idea. Would it create a large high level noob population? Maybe, but this could be countered with making the players go through a tutorial before they are thrown into the game at high level. Something a bit more robust than the ones we have now at level 15 that would teach players rotations. And if you already have a character at 60 or more, you can skip the tutorial. Either way, the pros of jump potions outweigh the cons.

I think some of the opposition to this is upset more because this makes newbies obtain something instantly that they worked hard for. Probably the same kind of crowd that gets upset when old content gets nerfed and made easier for players trying to catch up. If that is the case, you need to get over yourself and not pour so much of your pride in game. Unfortunately, that is the nature of MMOs. They keep getting bigger and bigger, and nerfs and boosts are needed to keep casuals and newbies interested.

If you are still against the idea of jump potions, we can at least agree that something has to be done to make the MSQ and leveling process faster, right?

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Originally Posted by Celef

The more time I spend on this forums the less I understand the community.
Everytime someone says relics takes too long to do or craft takes too long to lvl (in there opinio) they are called lazy and here, we are basically arguing regarding and insta gratification potion ^^"

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You made a hyperbole and thus people argued against you. You assumed a player would automatically be bad at the game, despite having no idea if they would actually take the time to learn how to play the Job (and then you assumed learning the Job would take a long time. It doesn't. Depending on the person, it can take up to a week or so, or just a few days or less. Thanks PotD). There's also the chance that the person using the potion may also be playing on an alt and can not be bothered going through the levelling process again. You then came up with the idea that is pretty much a blacklist target for players who simply assume a jump potion user is bad without even giving them a fair chance.

Don't make assumptions. Some players who skip may be bad, but at the same time, some will take the (in some cases, very short) time to learn how to play the game and Job.

I don't mind a leveling potion. It's not my business of telling people how they like to play. Some people might want to play alts on other servers and don't like to redo their whole character but don't wanna pay the extra money to upgrade to a other account or transfer their main character.

There could be plenty of reasons for it, I don't think that skipping level 1-60 makes much of a difference, sadly to say that most of the content is none relevant and can be undersync'd or fully skipped. Therefore the argument of saying that people need these levels to learn their class or content/mechanics of content is somewhat not important anymore.

I mean SE could make some requirements if others feel better, some could be : have to have at least 1 level 60 character on the account, has completed the main scenario's (whatever we wanna put here) or specific amount of time played. I don't know whatever the requirements could be, at the end a leveling potion is coming, if not with 4.0 than with any other expansion.

Looking at other games, these potions are always available and if it's just for skipping the MSQ after you reached max level. I don't think it's a good or bad thing, both parties have their advantages and I think any player should decide on their own if they like to use a potion or if they don't.