To the Devs: PvP Reward Ideas. [Feast Season Rewards]

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Originally Posted by Grimmel

AFKing in matches is a reportable offense, so this won't be an issue.

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It is ppl can q as heal make whole team die and lose the difference between a afker and someone who cant heal isn't clear.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

It is ppl can q as heal make whole team die and lose the difference between a afker and someone who cant heal isn't clear.

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From what I know you get kicked automatically after being afk for 2 minutes. And someone running circles at the spawn is pretty obviosly trying to pull down the team.

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Originally Posted by Rakiria

From what I know you get kicked automatically after being afk for 2 minutes. And someone running circles at the spawn is pretty obviosly trying to pull down the team.

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We talking about feast afkers can auto run to enemies and your team lost. In frontlines u can kick afkers before match ends but as soon as u have no healsin feast or just 1person less u lost also you cant get a replacement in feast

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

We talking about feast afkers can auto run to enemies and your team lost. In frontlines u can kick afkers before match ends but as soon as u have no healsin feast or just 1person less u lost also you cant get a replacement in feast

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The whole point of this thread is to request that Feast Season rewards eventually be added to the Wolf Mark vendors. IE, that we don't have to be top 100 or 30 ranked in the end of a season.

Wolf Marks can be obtained from ANY PvP oriented duty. Not just the Feast or Frontlines. Knowing that the rewards are on the wolf marks vendor people won't rush to get them and may take their time. They can form their own groups to ensure no AFK'ers or people who would purposely loose.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

It is ppl can q as heal make whole team die and lose the difference between a afker and someone who cant heal isn't clear.

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It's easy to tell apart someone who's AFKing and someone who doesn't know how to heal. Someone AFKing will not be giving out heals and run around aimlessly casting a regen ever so often despite heavy healing needed. Someone who doesn't know how to heal will be casting anything and everything without knowledge of when to use what and which cure to use instead of another.

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Originally Posted by Grimmel

The whole point of this thread is to request that Feast Season rewards eventually be added to the Wolf Mark vendors. IE, that we don't have to be top 100 or 30 ranked in the end of a season.

Wolf Marks can be obtained from ANY PvP oriented duty. Not just the Feast or Frontlines. Knowing that the rewards are on the wolf marks vendor people won't rush to get them and may take their time. They can form their own groups to ensure no AFK'ers or people who would purposely loose.

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You must have never met afk healers in feast before who ust spam medica/succor until their team is dead. Why should it be ever rewarded for wolfmarks thats like saying I should get my a12s mount with lore (pve tomestones that arent capped). Exclusivity isnt wrong it gives stuff a value sure SE can just put everything in casual dungeons but no one would care about the minions/mount. Did these so called "collectors" ever collected smth irl or so? So many ppl collecting cards even though they can never get all of the cards does it stop them from collecting? No. If SE decided to make a pvp tournament with prizes would you complain too? Do you complain about exclusive rewards for ranked pvp/tournaments too? shh Inequality isnt wrong.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Why should it be ever rewarded for wolfmarks thats like saying I should get my a12s mount with lore (pve tomestones that arent capped).

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Once the current raid season ends (when the expansion releases) you'll be able to get your a12s mount for far less effort and time spent than it'd take you to get 20-100k tomestones. It's already the case with the a4s rewards, from 2 seasons ago. So why shouldn't people be able to do something similar for the high end PVP rewards?

You must not have actually read a single post made in this thread, how else could you have made this comment? I'm honestly just baffled. Like... have you tried T5/T9/T13 recently? A4S?

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Originally Posted by Watachy

You're selfish as hell dude.

Hardcore raiders put a large amount of time learning mechanics and clearing fights. Yet the raid rewards are obtainable by everyone ?
Here we go again: why the pvpers (0.5/1% of the community ?) should have some exclusive items ?

And you don't even have to be good, just an entire list of people win trading for you :)

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If the item level for get in the raids will be limited forever, you can say this no problem

Again, in my 900+ matches I never see win trade
Yes this is not my main character if you wanna ask how a 56smn do that

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Originally Posted by Grimmel

Unless you're posting on an alt.. a lvl 56 SMN cannot participate in Feast Ranked matches. Your join date is also October 2016. I'm not discriminating, but it looks to me like you've never been a part of Feast Seasonal Ranking as you have to be lvl 60 to participate. So unless you have a higher main somewhere on a different account, your claims of having done "a lot of PvP" and knowledge of knowing that "getting in top 100 isn't hard" is pretty much just lying as you haven't done it.

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So do I need to write "I do have 3 characters for pvp and this is not my main character" every time I post something?
Btw what the join time shows is when the character(you use in this forum)r created, not your account thx

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Originally Posted by solracht

Only as backwards as the rest of the game, which does things like rewarding non-raiders with raiding rewards as long as they wait.

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It is true yes but most of the tome gear is garbage 80% of the time there's only a few pieces that you get and the rest from Savage but ever since SCOB/BCOB the rewards have been declining rapidly that I won't disagree with as it's the truth. The problem though is you can't do 1 thing for 1 group and do the same with another there has to be incentive for each and sadly for raiders there's not much, hell there's no titles or minions (besides normal Alexandria A12) for this final raid tier why?

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Originally Posted by solracht

As I have been saying, I mainly ask for consistency. Either handle PVP rewards the same way PVE rewards have been handled for the past 3 years, or make it very clear that PVE is going to get timed exclusive rewards from now on, just like PVP. Either option is fine with me, I can't speak for everyone else.

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I'm not speaking for the PvP community as a whole but rewarding people the same way they do content and reward PvErs and people who experience old content later then the raiders with no effort and trying to put that into PvP with no effort/AFKing isn't the way to go. I could que all day and sit there spamming Succors or auto attacking and sprinting while getting the same rewards as a hardcore PvPer that to me isn't right at all there should be exclusive items for PvP and PvE but they need to balance it, and how they'd balance it is just too tricky at the moment. On one hand there's the A12S mount and the A4S mount there's 2 you can get via raiding but only 1 via PvP so the ratio is different as they just started adding rewards in PvP this expansion.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

The issue i have is that will not always be the case, right now only the top PvEers will get the mount but Savage content when it's outdated will get echo added meaning everyone can then get the mount for little effort, so in all fairness the mount should be made easier to get once the season ends.

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So everyone should be allowed to que in the Feast and AFK until they get 20k seals? That isn't balanced at all it requires less thought and actions then actually DOING old content that isn't even that dated compared to Coil. That's why I don't agree with all this it's the bigger picture of killing PvP and creating that negative image of players and lumping them all together as lazy and want instant gratification now and they'll do it by doing something mundane as AFKing in a match getting something that someone else worked hard for.

Meet halfway: Keep older season rewards obtainable however you must still meet the intended achievement at some point. Reach Top whatever in a later Season and you can pick the older top whatever season rewards. However, you can only pick 1 reward, either the new one or one old one, but not everything.

Those who rank constantly will have more of the stuff than someone that is new and ranks so it rewards playing seasons as they happen.

Discontinue the trophy/equipment since no one seems to care about that but only the mount/minion.

This is assuming they are going to roll with this each season and there will be a new mount/minion each season.

It stays as a prestige award, it's still obtainable later and it isn't reduced to a token grind that could potentially ruin off season matches with people that don't want to be there.

That seems like a better way of doing it instead of throwing it on a vendor and calling it a day.

I know if I placed for the mount and it was tradable, I probably would post it for sale and make a killing (as I bet a good bunch of other Pvpers who dgaf about a mount). On the accusations of win trading, the current system really rewards spamming quantity of games over quality since you don't really lose sufficient points for losing a match. Hence an average player that wins about 50 percent of the time, but queues for twice the amount of games as everyone else, is going to have way more points than even other people who play above replacement level at 60+ percent win rate.

I suppose this is better than the alternative, because a truly competitive elo system would lead to a lot more matchfixing for fear of a loss. That being said, for people who can't play a lot they are going to have rely on playing a lot better and getting markedly higher win percentage because atm quantity of matches is the name of the game (don't afk and play at replacement level with an approx 40-50 percent win rate).

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Originally Posted by Watachy

And you don't even have to be good, just an entire list of people win trading for you :)

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I'm gonna shoot this down right away. There are far more players that legitimately fight and earn their place on the leaderboards than the few who try to cheat their way onto it. Don't you dare even claim they all wintrade. I am telling you now as someone who knows them that they do not.

As for raid rewards being available, that's not even a valid point. Raids - PvE content at the highest challenge/difficulty - will always eventually become easier with time. People know this and will game the system by just waiting til time, new levels, and new gear makes it easy. But no matter what, you have to fight for victory in PvP, whether lv. 50, 60, or eventually 70.

The ONLY difference is far too few want to actually try for the reward. Sorry, no waiting here. You fight for it or you forfeit it. It's not special treatment, it's competition.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

As for raid rewards being available, that's not even a valid point. Raids - PvE content at the highest challenge/difficulty - will always eventually become easier with time. People know this and will game the system by just waiting til time, new levels, and new gear makes it easy. But no matter what, you have to fight for victory in PvP, whether lv. 50, 60, or eventually 70.

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Except they can add a different PvP source for the hellhound without it being faceroll easy. Just like every single PvP mount that's currently ingame, the ones that involve winning x matches in y game mode, something that still requires the player to fight for it, because they're not getting progress towards it if they lose.

They could add this at some point after the next two seasons, if you want to keep the hellhound a more prestige mount for a while. I just don't see why PvPers deserve a time-exclusive mount, when no other mount has been like that.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

As for raid rewards being available, that's not even a valid point. Raids - PvE content at the highest challenge/difficulty - will always eventually become easier with time. People know this and will game the system by just waiting til time, new levels, and new gear makes it easy.

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PVE content gets easier over time due to gear and leveling, yes. However, on top of that, the developers of this game also go out of their way to make everything easily obtainable - a point which many of you keep on ignoring. Echo is added, fights are nerfed, lockouts are removed, droprates are increased, raid skins and rare drops are added to new sources. Many of these things either don't happen other games, or they happen at a much slower pace.

To compare, WoW raids from ten years ago are still on weekly lockouts and many mounts/achievements were removed (or lowered to 1% droprates) after the raids stopped being current.

If PVE content mostly remained untouched and it only became easier via natural player progression then you'd have a point, but it doesn't. The devs make a very conscious effort to hand rewards out to everyone. Why should PVP ones be excluded? Again, we either make PVP rewards work like everything else in the game, or we make the rest of the game work like the PVP rewards.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

But no matter what, you have to fight for victory in PvP, whether lv. 50, 60, or eventually 70.

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Since you're saying the goal remains the same, then make the same rewards available every season, rather than removing them after 1-2 seasons, and simply keep on adding new rewards every season. Now, make it so that people have to choose which set of rewards they get: recurring season champions would pick the newest ones (as they already have the old rewards) and new champions have the option of picking the newest rewards or some of the older ones (but not both within the same season).

That would be a compromise. Many people would still have issues with that system (no equivalent in high end PVE), but be assured there'd be a lot less noise over it, as people would at least have endless chances to go after the rewards (while allowing them to remain rare).

Within the context of FFXIV, the exclusivity of the Feast rewards simply went overboard. There's room for a lot of adjustments that would still keep the rewards exceptionally rare without making their exclusivity so over the top compared to literally everything else that exists in the game.

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Originally Posted by solracht

The devs make a very conscious effort to hand rewards out to everyone. Why should PVP ones be excluded? Again, we either make PVP rewards work like everything else in the game, or we make the rest of the game work like the PVP rewards.

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Truthfully, I have no issue with old rewards being made available after the fact. But I DO hold issue with the possible idea of "Allow these rewards to be available on a vendor later so we don't have to make the original effort for them". If the current mount becomes a "Win X amount of Y games", then fine, whatever. Buying it for wolf marks earned via minimal effort later? Nah.

And you made a very good point that really needs to be said: When PvP starts getting the same amount of attention and updates as the rest of the game does, sure, go ahead and give the rewards the same treatment.

Wolf Marks were just an idea thrown in this thread. Personally I have no special attachment to the idea, it's just the first thing suggested that would get the job done. Like I said at the end of my edit, there are a lot of options and a lot of room for change. I'd be fine with 100+ seasonal wins instead (long after the season where the rewards originally debuted).

Perhaps it'd be helpful for the discussion if the OP was edited to simply ask for a way to make the rewards available at some point after each season, rather than specifically through Wolf Marks?

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Originally Posted by solracht

Wolf Marks were just an idea thrown in this thread. Personally I have no special attachment to the idea, it's just the first thing suggested that would get the job done. Like I said at the end of my edit, there are a lot of options and a lot of room for change. I'd be fine with 100+ seasonal wins instead (long after the season where the rewards originally debuted).

Perhaps it'd be helpful for the discussion if the OP was edited to simply ask for a way to make the rewards available at some point after each season, rather than specifically through Wolf Marks?

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I like how you've explained it better than I have so I went an included one of your messages in the original OP.

Tfw you're both a hardcore pve'r and a pvp'r.

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

Tfw you're both a hardcore pve'r and a pvp'r.

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How does this relate to the thread topic? :\

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Originally Posted by Grimmel

How does this relate to the thread topic? :\

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I could say the same. :cool:

This thread is just ridiculous, in a bad way lol

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

I could say the same. :cool:

This thread is just ridiculous, in a bad way lol

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Right so I should just ignore you. Good to know I guess? Thanks for the thread boosts though.

can we just have them appear again in future seasons? please and ty. that way we appeal to both crowds. i mean this is such a simple fix imo. you still have to place in the season and can get previous season rewards, but only one. satisfies the pvpers by not handing out their precious rewards so easily and satisfies casuals that one day you'll get what u want, maybe.

Forget what the actual Rewards ARE for a moment. Let's think about who would even earn them in the first place.

I legitimately don't understand the logic behind an "incentive" being just adding exclusive rewards to a timed/ranking based PvP mode- especially when said mode has it's OWN progression track that cannot be bypassed/ignored.

If we eliminate the possibility of win-trading, how in the actual fluff is a rank 0 PvPer trying out the mode for the chance at the reward have ANY realistic shot against a team or a solo rank 50 player who has been PvPing for a respectable amount of time? Please explain this logic to me. I genuinely do not understand. As far as I know, a rank 50 player has an inherent advantage over the rank 0. in knowledge, ability, AND statistics... not to mention, they might actually have the right synced gear for the mode to begin with.

As far as I can piece in my head, the only people who will even be candidates for these rewards would be ACTUAL PvPers (with POSSIBLE "carries"?).... and win-traders. I cannot Imagine some curious PvE player with dreams of a hellhound will have any chance at netting it- or even coming close. So what's the incentive, really?

And will any of these fresh PvPers stick around when they discover this? when theyre either hopelessly outclassed or just can't compete with win trades?

I think PvP, or rather Feast specifically, is on the right track, but I'd like it to be an even playing field for everyone to have a chance before there's TRULY exclusive rewards.

I'd rather have a Vendor with "locked" items based on your current feast rank, much like how Beast Tribes work. At the very least, some random joe just trying out feast and dedicated to earning that top 10 can walk away with SOMETHING

Seems PVPers have bigger epeen then raiders do. SE wants to add exclusive stuff to PVP hey go for it that cool. Make is buyable with wolf marks, or need to do X amount of matches or X amount of wins, but not the way they doing it where you can only get it during certain season to the very top players and never again after that.

Feast sucks. Please make seasonal Frontline competition.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Seems PVPers have bigger epeen then raiders do.

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they do they really do. my true opinion would just be get a certain amount of wins. But im trying to appease both sides. As a raider i understand the frustration of having a raid nerfed to the ground so casuals can just walts in and farm it after you take so much time just to clear the thing, and how pissed i get when people i know on my server who dont even pvp get pvp gear just for glamour. but this is stupid. making an item not only limited to 130 people per data center but ALSO making it ONE TIME ONLY. you guy understand that never again u get 2 tries man(second season after new rewards) after that your out! nope you cant get Helldogo. but as i see it more cool stuff they put up like this in pvp the more ppl yell. just waiting till SE listens. they always listen to casuals.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Feast sucks. Please make seasonal Frontline competition.

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Feast sucks but Frontlines is fun and competitive??? Is it because how disgustingly easy it is to be carried in Frontlines because individual skill is no where near as valuable as it is in Feast.

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

Feast sucks but Frontlines is fun and competitive??? Is it because how disgustingly easy it is to be carried in Frontlines because individual skill is no where near as valuable as it is in Feast.

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This is why we need rated FL's so the quality of FL matches would go up aswell, currently its way too common to see pure TDM in there.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

If we eliminate the possibility of win-trading, how in the actual fluff is a rank 0 PvPer trying out the mode for the chance at the reward have ANY realistic shot against a team or a solo rank 50 player who has been PvPing for a respectable amount of time? Please explain this logic to me. I genuinely do not understand. As far as I know, a rank 50 player has an inherent advantage over the rank 0. in knowledge, ability, AND statistics... not to mention, they might actually have the right synced gear for the mode to begin with.

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Just gonna say the whole not being ranked 50 thing doesn't really matter placed on an alt top 100 season 1 with a better win rate than my main lol and he went into the first few matches without the level 60 spell and sprout

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

At the very least, some random joe just trying out feast and dedicated to earning that top 10 can walk away with SOMETHING

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If you want to get into the Feast and be competitive, I invite you to come down to the Wolves' Den Pier where a bunch of us are working together now to duel and setup custom Feast matches to learn more about our main jobs, and other jobs we're interested in playing in PvP. We're often there later in the night (most work/school reasons). I personally can't do more than teach the basics and share my own personal experience, but nothing beats practical application, and custom matches/duels allow that without the burden of ranked competition. Furthermore, we would love to further build up a playerbase of interested PvPers on Goblin. A good number of people are interested but never tried or are hesitant, and we openly welcome you.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Seems PVPers have bigger epeen then raiders do.

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You have no idea, i criticized how PVP works vs it's popularity and one pvper got really miffed at me, giving me the ol "who are you, fight me!" response, they REALLY take it little to seriously, for something so unpopular.

Tfw the act of one or few people of an entire community defines all them at its whole.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Seems PVPers have bigger epeen then raiders do. SE wants to add exclusive stuff to PVP hey go for it that cool. Make is buyable with wolf marks, or need to do X amount of matches or X amount of wins, but not the way they doing it where you can only get it during certain season to the very top players and never again after that.

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As someone earlier stated; it is unfair that PvP'ers get exclusive goodies while PvE'ers do not. I'm hoping they go the route of adding the Feast seasonal rewards eventually to the vendors instead of the other way around and add exclusive rewards to PvE content that has a time and limit constraint.

This whole thread is a disgrace.

The top PVPers put in hundreds, if not thousands of hours to practice and become as good as they are, and then spend the time to climb to the top of the leaderboards, and you people want it handed to you on a silver platter.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

This whole thread is a disgrace.

The top PVPers put in hundreds, if not thousands of hours to practice and become as good as they are, and then spend the time to climb to the top of the leaderboards, and you people want it handed to you on a silver platter.

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Hardcore raiders would like a word with you especially those who compete in the world first race, yet they do this knowing the rewards they get will be handed out like candy in as little as 3 months.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

Hardcore raiders would like a word with you especially those who compete in the world first race, yet they do this knowing the rewards they get will be handed out like candy in as little as 3 months.

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Just because they don't, doesn't mean they shouldn't. Most other games have exclusive titles or some other sort of "pride" reward linked to server/world first achievements.

Also, for the record, my friends and I would still aim for the top spots even without the rewards (we regularly PVP'd in wolves den back when PVP had no rating system.) However, there is little incentive to PVP in this game, considering the skill gap between novice and expert is more astronomical than just about every other game I've played(which leads to a harsh learning curve), in addition to the previous lack of rewards.

Having exclusive PVP rewards is a good thing for PVPers.

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Originally Posted by Grimmel

it is unfair that PvP'ers get exclusive goodies while PvE'ers do not.

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I noted elsewhere before that PvPers really are the last to get anything, and that's certainly not fair to us. The Feast was added in what, 3.2? Along with i230/240 Lore gear, and what did we get? I205 gear, STILL with the long-defunct Morale stat, materia slots that do us no good as materia bonuses are ignored in PvP, and it gets synced to i150 anyways! Minimum time and effort will eventually earn you the marks for the gear, and at best, it's nothing but glamour, and pretty much was on implementation.

PvE gear levels skyrocket while any unique gear we have is almost invalid on arrival. You can't possibly complain about what PvPers get when everything else gets far more and better.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

This whole thread is a disgrace.

The top PVPers put in hundreds, if not thousands of hours to practice and become as good as they are, and then spend the time to climb to the top of the leaderboards, and you people want it handed to you on a silver platter.

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No; we aren't asking for it to be handed to us on a silver platter. You're assuming that's what we want. We want these rewards to be just as hard for Top scorers to get as for the rest of the community.

There have been many proposal's brought up in this thread that could potentially make it to where it's fair and I've recently come up with a new one that may better sate your anger and nullify your assumptions.
Let's take an example: Beastmen Dailies. It takes upwards to 30 days or more to get max rank in a single beastman tribe. So what could be done is a token system that requires time in order to reap the rewards. And people can totally do this at their leisure. Let's say you can gather up to 20 Tokens per day. These Tokens are on a daily cap. You can gather 1 a day or up to 10 but the cap stops at 20 for the day. Let's put a reward up now, say the Hellhound: It requires 1500 Tokens to purchase.

These tokens can only be obtained via any type of PvP content. These tokens come from doing certain types of things based on the content people are running. Say from the Fold or Feast unranked it comes from defeating players. Each player defeated awards a token. In Frontlines it could come from capturing an objective.

So assuming we can get up to 20 tokens a day for a mount that would cost 1,500 Tokens. That would be 75 days to get that mount which is pretty much 2 and a half months worth of grinding 20 tokens a day. So it would essentially equate to nearly a full season of the feast. So yes; we would have to work just as hard with this particular system.

For all that, why not just participate in Feast?

This isn't a casual prize, so a casual approach is undue and disproportionate. And I'm not talking about players when I say casual, just to clarify. I'm referring to the effort vs the reward.

To put it in perspective, I don't consider the Fenrir mount to be a casual prize for the Gold Saucer. However I don't make more than a casual effort to play Gold Saucer games and earn MGP, thus I don't have a Fenrir mount, and I'm okay with that.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

For all that, why not just participate in Feast?

This isn't a casual prize, so a casual approach is undue and disproportionate. And I'm not talking about players when I say casual, just to clarify. I'm referring to the effort vs the reward.

To put it in perspective, I don't consider the Fenrir mount to be a casual prize for the Gold Saucer. However I don't make more than a casual effort to play Gold Saucer games and earn MGP, thus I don't have a Fenrir mount, and I'm okay with that.

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How is it "undue and disproportionate" to simply have the Hellhound as a reward for winning x matches in y game mode? Y'know just like every single other PvP mount. Those mounts haven't seen the same amount of complaints as the Hellhound does, and for a good reason. PvP rewards like this can be exclusive without being limited to a specific time period, just look at how many players actually obtained the original ADS, the recolor, or the airship thing.

Besides, and I'll probably step on some toes saying this, the main focus of the game has always been PvE. The clear majority plays this game for the PvE content, clear because the PvP side would otherwise see much more activity.
I do think the PvP side should get a bit more focus, but both sides will never get equal attention.