Changes to Gear Dying

Hate to be a spelling nitpick OP, but it's spelled Dyeing, not Dying. Gears don't die. :P

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Originally Posted by Bahn

Hate to be a spelling nitpick OP, but it's spelled Dyeing, not Dying. Gears don't die. :P

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unless you try forbidden materia...DUN DUN DUUUUUUN!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Airget

Though that does lead to another question, will dyeing actually be a synthesis process or will it be automatic? If it's a synthesis process that means if you synthed a Felt Robe (increases Attack Magic Potency) +1 but decide you wanted it to be green, you would have to risk losing the +1 just for the ability to customize how it looks.

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But you would have a chance to make it +2, too
The best solution would be to make sure that finished gear don't downgrade in the process. That +1 wouldn't be turned to +0.
Isn't the HQ changes (100% HQ chance if all mats are HQ) coming with 1.20, too?

Good to see this happening, I'm dying all my red cobalt gear back to white if it's doable after the patch, so I can get back my paladin-y look.

Anyone else pleasantly surprised at how quickly this came in? From the look of Yoshi-P's initial response to the raging at the dyeing system, I thought it would be so technical it'd take 6 months to actually implement the system, but instead it's in the next major patch.

So when is 1.20 patch supposed to be coming again?

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Originally Posted by Senkimekia

I hope in 1.2 we will be able to use ALL of the base colors for ALL of the items and not just the colors currently restricted to each item currently in place minus stats post patch. (ie. a lot of the new recipes currently only have 1-3 color options) There was no mention to this fact in either direction so it makes me worry... I don't want to have to wait until 1.21 or beyond to have full color choices available :(

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This was a few pages ago but I'm guessing we can use any color on any gear. The article on the lodestone front page had a Blue Cobalt Cuirass which currently does not exist.

@ Sorel: Late Nov - Early Dec.

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Originally Posted by OJtheLIONKing

Good to see this happening, I'm dying all my red cobalt gear back to white if it's doable after the patch, so I can get back my paladin-y look.

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You can't redye gear until 2.0 :(

Am I the only one surprised the title of SE's post wasn't something like "Gear Changes You Were Dying For"?

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Originally Posted by OJtheLIONKing

Good to see this happening, I'm dying all my red cobalt gear back to white if it's doable after the patch, so I can get back my paladin-y look.

Anyone else pleasantly surprised at how quickly this came in? From the look of Yoshi-P's initial response to the raging at the dyeing system, I thought it would be so technical it'd take 6 months to actually implement the system, but instead it's in the next major patch.

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Basically the way they -want- to eventually do this is different than the way they're implementing it right now; this is a stopgap because there was a huge backlash against stats and requirements being linked to gear colour, as I understand things.

I don't get it...why not leave the gear alone and just let the whole dyeing system not have anything to do with stats. Everyone knows as much as we want it to be easy its not going to be. Felt Robe will still have only 1-2 colors instead of the 8 different dyes available.

Felt Robe + Red Dye = Felt Robe (Red)
Felt Robe + Green Dye = Felt Robe (Green)
Felt Robe + Pink Dye = Felt Robe (Pink)
etc etc etc...

Leave the stats alone, thats what materia is for.
If anything just have two completely different body pieces.

Felt Robe gives you MND while Felt Cowl gives you MATT while Felt Bliaud gives you MACC or just have one piece gives you a little bit of each appropriate mage stat. It will be easy to identify. If you see someone wearing a cowl there is prolly some sort of MATT build going on there. A robe will probably be a WHM and then just use the dyes to mix up the colors a bit so not everyone looks the same. Blah blah blah my head hurts again....

Uh... they are separating stats from color. There will be an intermediate step now that will give the bonuses that were previously given by color, so you could, for example, upgrade your Felt Robe into the Magic Attack or MND version and after that dye it to whatever color you like.

If the Blue Cobalt Cuirass in the picture is any indication we will have free reign to use whatever colors we like.

As long as my Felt Green Robe still has the attk magik potency on it after patch I am ok with it. If I lose those bonus stats from my dyed gear, I want my materia back SE.

Can you make up your mind SE? I swear, sometimes i think they sit around a table and roll dice. The one who wins the dice roll decides what get's implemented and how. Then after it's live and is a disaster, they fix it.

If this continues we will not see 2.0 before 2020.

A simple Yes or No answer from the Devs would be nice since it is still unclear.

Question: Will we be able to dye ANY undyed gear to ANY color we want?

Just a straight yes or no please (from the Devs). It will end speculation and possibly kill dreams >.>

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Originally Posted by gahoo

The dyeing fix is good, but the name really needs to change when a synthesis action is performed on an item and the stats change. Please don't call it "Felt Robe (increases Mind)" - just call it "Astute Felt Robe" or something. That way we don't have "Felt Robe (increases Mind) (Green)" - which is a mouthful and confusing if there are only 1 or 2 variants.

If SE were to introduce an augment system where the players could tweak with a whole list of added stats it would be one thing, but if there are a discrete number of recipes creating different items they should have distinct names.

EDIT: also - what if there are 2 different stats? macro /equip body "Felt Robe (increases Mind) (increases Attack Magic Potency) (Green)" anyone?

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Spot on! This needs to be considered

Erm... your "what it should be" is what the 2.0 dyeing sounds like, they just won't be able to do it with how the game handles items currently. And the 1.20 dying system isn't that far off, just missing the "being able to dye already-dyed items". They haven't finalized the naming system of the stat-boosted items so we would probably see them get their own names.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

Can you make up your mind SE? I swear, sometimes i think they sit around a table and roll dice. The one who wins the dice roll decides what get's implemented and how. Then after it's live and is a disaster, they fix it.

If this continues we will not see 2.0 before 2020.

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They do what we wanted
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ecific-classes.

It will be nice having a little variety in gear as opposed to the 2k melees running around with a Cobalt Hauby (Red) all the time. And definitely have an augment prefix to the gear name. That will help make it easier for macro sets.

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A Word of Caution

Due to the game's data structure, it is not possible at present to dye an item more than once. After Version 2.0, however, players will be able to dye an item multiple times.

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This is confusing. It's just a recipe. Just add the recipes of 'Colored item + dye => New Colored item'. Yes, it makes the recipe list bloat a bit, but not much compared to what we already have.

I dont think they will have all of the colors for the dyes quite yet, until they introduce the Color ID system. If that system was already finished, then dying it a different color after it has been dyed would not be a problem, but for now, each different stat + different color = multiple items. So instead of

Felt Robe
Felt Robe Green
Felt Robe Red

We have:

Felt Robe
Felt Robe (Magic Potency)
Felt Robe (Mind)

Felt Robe (Green)
Felt Robe (Green) (Magic Potency)
Felt Robe (Green) (Mind)

Felt Robe (Red)
Felt Robe (Red) (Magic Potency)
Felt Robe (Red) (Mind)

etc.
All of these are separate items, which would cause a clutter in memory usage if they continue to do this. Now if they waited until the color ID system to be done, we could make it plain and simple:

Felt Robe (Color ID)
Felt Robe (Magic Potency) (Color ID)
Felt Robe (Mind) (Color ID)

With the Color ID System, less memory would be used since the Felt Robe wouldn't be considered as a separate item for every single color, which was previously announced to be around 32 colors. :O

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Originally Posted by WintersMoondancer

A simple Yes or No answer from the Devs would be nice since it is still unclear.

Question: Will we be able to dye ANY undyed gear to ANY color we want?

Just a straight yes or no please (from the Devs). It will end speculation and possibly kill dreams >.>

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Not a dev but I believe that's a no for now. I know Yoshida said they eventually want to have everything in every color but because of how the game sees items of different colors, it's a bit complex. Essentially right now two of the same items in different colors are treated as completely different items. I think the point they're trying to get to is where the color information doesn't designate them as completely different items, but still allows them to be different colors.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Now if they waited until the color ID system to be done, we could make it plain and simple:

Felt Robe (Color ID)
Felt Robe (Magic Potency) (Color ID)
Felt Robe (Mind) (Color ID)

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Nooo. Why are we equating dye and stats. Dyes just change something's color. That's it. That's all it should do. As someone said somewhere, red cars don't go faster.

The dying process should be like the NPC repair. Go to NPC, trade a dye and an item (and/or gil), receive item back with a new color. Use it as a gil sink. Have different costs for different levels of gear if you want (but not for different colors).

When an item it placed on AH/wards it should lose whatever color is attached, leading to simplified AH listings and more/better supply.

Separately, when an item undergoes a synthesis process, and changes stats in any respect - give it a new name, not a parenthetical. The parentheticals on colors, stats or gems should all be removed. It just sounds/looks terrible. Absent someone saying there is a backend issue, this would seem to be a simple issue of localization/renaming stuff. Rate up my post at #6 in this thread on this point.

Finally, and really as an aside, because of how we got to where we are, the equipment is a total mess. While I can understand not wanting to scrap all old items in order to not have people lose items, to have what are essentially 2 different armor systems side-by-side with different naming conventions and rules is, in the long run, going to confuse the user-base, and especially new users coming in at 2.0. I would prefer a full-blown phasing out of the "dated" gear and other poorly defined, poorly named, poorly stat'ed 1.x gear. Just list it all and give the users the next 12 months (pre-2.0) to convert it to materia, sell it to NPCs, and move to the newer gear that will be used going forward.

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Originally Posted by gahoo

Nooo. Why are we equating dye and stats. Dyes just change something's color. That's it. That's all it should do. As someone said somewhere, red cars don't go faster.

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I think you misunderstand >.> Im saying that there are three different files for that same item because of the different stats. Color ID is a separate system.

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Originally Posted by gahoo

The dying process should be like the NPC repair. Go to NPC, trade a dye and an item (and/or gil), receive item back with a new color. Use it as a gil sink. Have different costs for different levels of gear if you want (but not for different colors).

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I even think this is too much hassle, they should copy Rifts dye system, right click the dye, click the item you want to dye, choose which part you want to dye. (obviously in 2.0)

Supposedly Yoshi-p has been playing Rift so he has no doubt seen how it works.

Posted this on the JP side - imo they should separate Dying and Crafting all together.

1. Crafters make the base equipment
2. Gatherer collects the color items
3. Anyone can Dye the equipment through system like:
   1. Going through NPC
   2. From item screen choosing the equipment and have new option to dye (I prefer this one personally)

And have a screen like this one (sorry it's in JP jut says dying, dye, cancel, required color items)



http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...ONipNvSAhY.png


This way it wont interfere with materia attached to the equipment or HQ/NQ quality of the equipment.



Kind of dumb how NQ equipment can become HQ item just by dying imo, at same time the equipment shouldn't lose the materia attached because of dyeing.

Love all these ideas and agreed, I wish it was separate from crafting aside from crafters perhaps being able to create certain color combinations and such.

new update from JP rep regarding Gear Dying.

copy/paste from my translation thread
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Now this is good news :)

Regarding dying
*note they didn't answer about current people with red gear changing color... sorry

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Originally Posted by Triairy

皆さん、こんばんは。
Good evening everyone,

たくさんのフィードバックありがとうございます。
いくつかのご質問に関してお答えします。
Thanks for the many feedbacks.
Going to answer few of the questions asked.

まず、HQ装備／マテリア装着した装備の着色加工についてですが、
どちらも着色加工を行っても、元の装備の状態を引き継ぎます。
+3の装備を着色加工すると、+3の着色された装備ができ、
マテリア装着を行った装備を着色加工すると、マテリア装着したままの着色された装備ができます
First off, regarding HQ equipment/materia attached equipment's dying; which ever you dye the original stats will be carried over.
If you dye a +3 equipment, it will create a +3 dyed equipment, if you dye a equipment with materia attached, it will keep the materia attached and dye the equipment.

また着色加工は、メニュー「製作」から素材とカララントを選択し、
製作を開始すると、製作作業の工程をスキップし100％成功します。
Also for dying when starting craft by selecting required material and coloring dye it will skip the crafting process and will succeed 100%.

そして、NPCにて着色加工を行えるようにしてほしいという件についてですが、
新生において、着色加工が繰り返し可能になったタイミングで、
基本カラーはNPCで着色が可能に、レアカラーはクラフターで着色が可能になるよう検討を行っています。
Also regarding wanting NPC to be able to dye, with 2.0 when dying can be done multiple times, we are looking into making basic color dyes possible through NPC and rare color dyes to be done by crafters.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

new update from JP rep regarding Gear Dying.

copy/paste from my translation thread
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まず、HQ装備／マテリア装着した装備の着色加工についてですが、
どちらも着色加工を行っても、元の装備の状態を引き継ぎます。
+3の装備を着色加工すると、+3の着色された装備ができ、
マテリア装着を行った装備を着色加工すると、マテリア装着したままの着色された装備ができます
First off, regarding HQ equipment/materia attached equipment's dying; which ever you dye the original stats will be carried over.
If you dye a +3 equipment, it will create a +3 dyed equipment, if you dye a equipment with materia attached, it will keep the materia attached and dye the equipment.

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Hi Reinheart,

Thanks for the translations again. :) This is *great* news.

Great to know we can change the color of our HQ Items without worry that we lose the HQ status on a 2nd "synth" (coloring). :)

So glad to read this. I never thought color should = stats. Color should be cosmetic only. Stats should be by item type plus enhancements like materia.

I know this is a fantasy game and perhaps the dye was magic or something, but it didn't make sense that if I dye a Linen Coatee blue, it suddenly bestowed upon its wearer Control: +8.

Wow, this is a relief. However doesn't it make hq Dye useless?

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Originally Posted by Vorn

Wow, this is a relief. However doesn't it make hq useless?

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how so? with armor HQ only increases defense, with weapons it increases damage, HQ doesn't do anything to stat bonuses.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

how so? with armor HQ only increases defense, with weapons it increases damage, HQ doesn't do anything to stat bonuses.

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Guessing he's talking about HQ dye materials?

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Guessing he's talking about HQ dye materials?

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ahh quite possible yeah guess HQ dye would be useless, hmm small price to pay imo.

Yea oops dye +3, dunno how I left that out

And I'm ecstatic and relieved on the change! Thought SE would screw me for sure having to re meld gear in a dif color

Hopefully we can clear up a few of the concerns that came up after the announcement was made.

In regards to dyeing HQ gear and materia-melded gear, dyeing these items will have no adverse affect on their stats. If you dye a +3 gear item, you’ll produce the same +3 gear but in a different color. If you dye gear with materia melded to it, you will have the same gear with the same materia but in a different color.

To dye equipment, simply select the materials and the desired dye from the synthesis menu. Once you begin synthesizing, the synthesis process will be skipped, and dyeing will succeed 100% of the time.

Regarding player requests to have NPCs handle dyeing equipment, we plan on allowing NPCs to dye equipment basic colors and crafters to dye equipment rare colors in version 2.0.


/happygalago

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

To dye equipment, simply select the materials and the desired dye from the synthesis menu. Once you begin synthesizing, the synthesis process will be skipped, and dyeing will succeed 100% of the time.

Regarding player requests to have NPCs handle dyeing equipment, we plan on allowing NPCs to dye equipment basic colors and crafters to dye equipment rare colors in version 2.0.

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The second part heavily implies it, but is there a minimum level requirement for a crafter to dye something? The first paragraph almost seems that since the dye process is guaranteed to succeed, you could do it at a significantly lower rank and have no problems.

If there is a minimum rank, are you able to tell us what it is?

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hopefully we can clear up a few of the concerns that came up after the announcement was made.

In regards to dyeing HQ gear and materia-melded gear, dyeing these items will have no adverse affect on their stats. If you dye a +3 gear item, you’ll produce the same +3 gear but in a different color. If you dye gear with materia melded to it, you will have the same gear with the same materia but in a different color.

To dye equipment, simply select the materials and the desired dye from the synthesis menu. Once you begin synthesizing, the synthesis process will be skipped, and dyeing will succeed 100% of the time.

Regarding player requests to have NPCs handle dyeing equipment, we plan on allowing NPCs to dye equipment basic colors and crafters to dye equipment rare colors in version 2.0.


/happygalago

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RUKKIRII I LUV YOU LOTS

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Originally Posted by Powercow

The second part heavily implies it, but is there a minimum level requirement for a crafter to dye something? The first paragraph almost seems that since the dye process is guaranteed to succeed, you could do it at a significantly lower rank and have no problems.

If there is a minimum rank, are you able to tell us what it is?

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I would assume yes, in terms that while they will allow basic colors to be dyed by NPC, if you want more "fancy" colors you'll need a crafter of the proper level to do it for you. It wouldn't make much sense if you could just put on a level 1 craft class and dye it yourself lol.

Think of dyeing like the current repair system, if you can repair it it's 100% success rate, if you can't repair it then you'll be unable to perform the task. Hopefully when they release the dyeing concept they'll allow people to seek dyeing through bazaar without having to trade to others in the same manner that they plan on allowing people to have melding happen through bazaars lol.

so that elusive fushsia hauby is crafted only, alrighty then. Will it show as a different item in the market search?

Now my only question is, will we be able to dye our already dyed-materia sets or will we have to start from scratch again with undyed and buy new materia for it?
For those who already have 2-3 melds on a piece of gear but hate the colour (red cobalt anyone?), will they be able to dye it when the change comes to say green without having to redo their gear and materia?