FFXI's gear swap was like having extra skills.

Funny how some people whine about jumping somehow ruining their immersion, but blinking and instantly swapping gear every few seconds doesn't. I wish they'd admit they just want the game more like XI.

In a way, not having gearswaps will be a more strategic method of gameplay than having them. In FFXI you used to have a gear set for every situation, where as in FFXIV you have to weigh up the bonuses to each aspect of the fight to consider which piece is best for the overall DPS. I'm sure in the future when haste and other stats are added, as well as a better understanding of damage mods and stat bonuses that it will become even more critical to choose the best combination of gear to suit all situations.

Of course another bonus of this method is there's less space required to store multiple gear sets. I didn't mind gear swapping in FFXI, and I don't mind not having gear swaps in FFXIV, but I can see that each method has its pros and cons.

The materia system is great for simply having a player be able to 'personalise' their own equipment, it removes the static gear sets and clone problem that FFXI had, where everyone wore the same things because they were tested to be 'best in slot'. @OP while it is true that if you are lucky and rich you'll most likely end up with the best equipment, but making money is part of the game and you can't call that an unfair advantage. Luck always plays a part, a game without luck is a boring one.

All in all I think the OP raises a good question about why FFXIV was made without gear swaps (one of the issues being the server), but then goes on to rant about personal experience and trails off into 'I'm a little bit mad about having some bad luck'. I don't think swapping gear is a necessity to the game, it's just something they didn't think they needed when the game was created, so it's not in it.

who needs gear swaps when you can do everything with crappy equip effortlessly >.>

Dear lord, no thanks. Carrying like 60 items just for my Blue Mage was annoying as hell.

new system that works like gear swaps without all the space, make them like materia, u collect them the same as gear from drops,nm, dungeons what have you. but instead of adding them to gear, u add them to your spells. long as u get the right ones it turns to key item that u can then turn it active to any spell. kill nm > drops dark element materialwanabemat > now can activate it to any spell or move > turn it on for u'r stun!! > done. same thing little less of the work an hastles and no blinking or making long macros lol.

Gear swap is/was ridiculously stupid. I'm glad XIV has taken a stance to prevent this kind of player exploitation of game mechanics this time around and I hope they always continue to do so.

Im not for this at all, gear swap in a middle of battle is stupid and wanted only for power playing. We have enough blinking like that, we dont want more.

The rich being the strongest is only sensible, same with crafters being the richest and so on. And as for the u/u gear they allready stated they would make it possible to equip materia on it a t a later date.

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Originally Posted by Lebannen

The rich being the strongest is only sensible, same with crafters being the richest and so on. And as for the u/u gear they allready stated they would make it possible to equip materia on it a t a later date.

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I'd like to see where that was stated.

God no .. so is that what they meant by blink tanking when he kept flashing and i lost target on him whilst trying to heal. /sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

Funny how some people whine about jumping somehow ruining their immersion, but blinking and instantly swapping gear every few seconds doesn't. I wish they'd admit they just want the game more like XI.

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Well said.

gear swaps is a terrible game mechanic. It may have made ff11's slow paced battle system more interesting but id like 14 to focus on things that have more imagination then simply switching your gear for every skill.

I would say yes only if they are able to get rid of the blink redraw.

but it is pretty annoying getting gear for everything...=/

I like gear swap.

I don't want gear swaps in XIV, who the hell changes clothes/pants while fighting a ferocious, humongous, and massive monsters anyway?

Nvm. 10/ch..

Dear f*cking lord no to gear swaps. I don't want to carry god knows how many sets of gear for one class because of that piece of sh*t system.

No, F'n way. I'm tired of this backwards thinking way stuck in the mindset of everyone. That's just dumb. Boo for that and boo for anyone who supports that idea.

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Originally Posted by Manafont

Wanted more tp? switch to haste/tp gear set, wanted this weapon skill to do more dmg? Switch to the set you had for that, etc, etc. That is one of the things FFXIV is missing. Gear that makes a difference and quick gear swaps like FFXI had. Materia should have been limited to a set number and kept there instead of this testing your luck to mod 3-4 materia into gear making things you had to work for useless. Basically the rich become the strongest and dungeons? what about them? why do them when you can meld HQ gear to be the best thing in the game period?

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Having the swap gear during battle was the most unnatural, un-fantasy, retarded crap I have ever seen in a video game. Sure it had it's uses but having to swap whilst fighting was stupid, there is no if, and or but about that either. BTW I have several people in my LS who haven't even leveled a crafting class and started 1.19 with less than 5 million gil who have some of the best socketed gear on the server. They are not rich, they went out and turned gear into materia and got lucky drop from Materializing an item and got lucky getting those said items double or triple socketed. So I apologize if this post seems like some sort of attack but it is just someone saying you don't need any of the crap you mentioned to be the best. Where there is a will there is always a way.

Personally, I refused to gear swap in FFXI out of protest over a ridiculous notion. I never liked the idea, and I continue to not like it. In fact, my gear goal in FFXI was to build one well-rounded set for my job/role. Another fact: nobody ever gave me grief about it. Yes, I did spend at least a couple years in end-game.

God forbid we have something to do in this game by collecting more gear.

This community's silly lack of reasoning and general laziness/anti-anything difficult is what will drive this game into the ground.

They've already made the game's gear system next to worthless with the silly attribute system in place.

As much as I want this game to succeed, they have given the community too much input into the direction of the game. The majority of the community who cries to the developers are casual players who want everything stream lined to them by only playing 5 hours a week. Not that there is anything wrong with advancing your character by playing a couple hours a week; but where does that leave players who want to play their job/class to it's potential?

The current materia system even in theory is an awful system of endgame gear. Does anyone actually like the idea of progressing your class by blowing up gil at incredibly low success rates? The current system in place pretty much makes this game "Farm Gil for Gear XIV".

At the end of the day gear swapping is pointless right now anyways until/if they fix or scale stats.

How could someone honestly like setting up a thousand macros to change it every other WS? Seriously, leave that to FFXI...

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Originally Posted by Montijin

God forbid we have something to do in this game by collecting more gear.

This community's silly lack of reasoning and general laziness/anti-anything difficult is what will drive this game into the ground.

They've already made the game's gear system next to worthless with the silly attribute system in place.

As much as I want this game to succeed, they have given the community too much input into the direction of the game. The majority of the community who cries to the developers are casual players who want everything stream lined to them by only playing 5 hours a week. Not that there is anything wrong with advancing your character by playing a couple hours a week; but where does that leave players who want to play their job/class to it's potential?

The current materia system even in theory is an awful system of endgame gear. Does anyone actually like the idea of progressing your class by blowing up gil at incredibly low success rates? The current system in place pretty much makes this game "Farm Gil for Gear XIV".

At the end of the day gear swapping is pointless right now anyways until/if they fix or scale stats.

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Real question is does anyone not like it? You are literally the only person I have yet to see complain about it. Gave the people of FFXIV the ability to actually be able to spend their gil on something worthwhile. The system still needs to be tweaked it is not been perfected yet. I play probably about 30-40 hours a week and I want the game more streamlined because it is original state it sucked in literally every way possible. This game needs certain streamlined features to succeed and if you cannot see that you must know nothing about MMORPGs. Even FFXI was steamlined over the years to accommodate for new players etc. Level Sync etc and many other features.

tl;dr ..to bad read and stop posting the same argument.

this thread reminds of the one made a year ago about this, same arguments and same process of everyone probably not even reading any posts in it and just raging with a NOOO for reasons that make no sense since none of them problems need to be added to the system. it seems like everyone is avoiding reasonable and sensible arguments and just raging with what was wrong with the old system. and on top it is more for opposite reasons like to lazy to collect more gear. cause even without this system u should be technically gearing up other pieces that might help even if there isn't gear swaps. this actually is less work in the long run in my opinion.

fact, gear swapping in it's simplest form does only 2 things, 1. gives you much more gear to collect 2. allows you to strengthen your spells for the few times they are actually needed.

none of the arguments need to be in place for this system to work, it doesn't even need to be gear swaps. i added this a few pages ago as well and it seems everyone steam rolled passed it. but we have a materia system for gear, a simple materia system for spells and moves that work like key items would fix every argument.

1. no macros to make, just click once to trigger it on for the move after you collected the piece from where ever it came from ..nm/dungeon what have you.

2. no blinking since it's not gear, this removes the "immersion" argument as well as the blinking problem even though even if it was on gear ...the system in 2012 doesn't need to blink.

3. space? it's a key item like materia that works like materia ..only difference maybe is u have option to turn it on or off, and maybe turn on a stronger one or something. what have you.

don't think i see any other arguments other then too much work to gather all this gear? well that i can only say is don't, u don't' need to do the materia system now and u don't need to for spells, it just makes it more efficient and gives players with time to ..to enjoy it. from more nm's to kill to doing dungeons more often. don't ruin a good system out of your own laziness and worry of what others will say think or react to it. this was a great system in ffxi and would be even greater in a mmo in 2012. take diablo3 not really a mmo but every one of there moves and spells can have other strengths added to it too. it works in this day in age the same as it did back then.

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Originally Posted by Anima

I don't want gear swaps in XIV, who the hell changes clothes/pants while fighting a ferocious, humongous, and massive monsters anyway?

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If the monster is that ferocious, humongous and massive maybe you need a change of pants .. /shrugs

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Originally Posted by weeble

new system that works like gear swaps without all the space, make them like materia, u collect them the same as gear from drops,nm, dungeons what have you. but instead of adding them to gear, u add them to your spells. long as u get the right ones it turns to key item that u can then turn it active to any spell. kill nm > drops dark element materialwanabemat > now can activate it to any spell or move > turn it on for u'r stun!! > done. same thing little less of the work an hastles and no blinking or making long macros lol.

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This is right on the money. Gear is kind of a terrible design space for slowly but surely increasing the potency of every single one of your available abilities - different sorts of gear are there to accommodate different play style or let you prepare for challenges you know in advance. Mid-battle gear swapping is silly.

If all you really want if for there to be a time consuming way to buff up the entirely of your ability pool set, that's what you should be asking for; quests or drops or whatever that upon completion/acquisition increase the effectiveness of the specific abilities themselves.

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Originally Posted by Icecylee

This is right on the money. Gear is kind of a terrible design space for slowly but surely increasing the potency of every single one of your available abilities - different sorts of gear are there to accommodate different play style or let you prepare for challenges you know in advance. Mid-battle gear swapping is silly.

If all you really want if for there to be a time consuming way to buff up the entirely of your ability pool set, that's what you should be asking for; quests or drops or whatever that upon completion/acquisition increase the effectiveness of the specific abilities themselves.

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This. A thousand times this. I'm a long time player of XI and I actually enjoy what the retarded baroque gear system allows you to do, I just think it is so far from optimal that we should not be even considering implementing it again. There are better, more interesting ways to explore that design space!

NO NO NO NO

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Originally Posted by Montijin

This community's silly lack of reasoning and general laziness/anti-anything difficult is what will drive this game into the ground.

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Oh, please. I bet most of us who feel very strongly against implementing mid-battle gear swaps carried tons of macro gear in FFXI. Heck, I went out of my way to farm rather expensive DD gear for leveling PLD so I could not only macro it for WS but also just wear it while tanking if the healer was having trouble spending his MP. So, it has nothing to do with laziness.

Then you play the lack of reasoning card, which is pretty hilarious considering we've posted several extremely good reasons for not allowing it. Let's look at the pros and cons, shall we?

Pros:
- allows for a potentially wider range of sidegrades to be desirable

Cons:
- clutters the inventory with unnecessary items
- is conceptually ridiculous
- constantly changing gear looks silly even if it didn't blink your character
- having to macro all your abilities is unnecessary
- lets you have your cake and eat it too, which turns choices into no-brainers

The choice seems pretty easy, no?

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The current materia system even in theory is an awful system of endgame gear. Does anyone actually like the idea of progressing your class by blowing up gil at incredibly low success rates? The current system in place pretty much makes this game "Farm Gil for Gear XIV".

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This I've ranted about several times, though. The materia system is actually very poorly implemented due to it being a complete crap shoot where money eventually trumps over all else even though money is mostly just a function of time spent in the game (or real money spent at the RMT shop) while player skill only gets you useless U/U junk.

@Frein- The only thing that needs to be changed about the materia system is some of the specifics such as only being able to put this materia in this set piece of gear. The only boundary for materia should be level but you should have the freedom to put what materia in what piece of gear you want and not be limited to them holding your hand. Other than that it is a sound and solid system where anybody who puts in the time can get the best piece of gear the same as the guy who has 1000000000000000000 gil. He put in his time before to get that much money from crafting or whatever before so those people actually now have something worthwhile to spend gil on.

Gear swap should not come back. Condemned to the dustbin of history. I Prefer tactical gear decisions, not "carry everything."

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

How could someone honestly like setting up a thousand macros to change it every other WS? Seriously, leave that to FFXI...

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Started with S and ended with T my friend. Regardless, at the end of the day Materia is merely a system that allow people to dedicate time and energy (gil) into being better than everyone else. Having the ability to do mid-fight gear changing is not all that much different. You can settle for 1 materia/gear instead of striving for multiple and that is OK. Likewise you can settle for having only 1 gearset and in most situations that will be perfectly OK too. Some of us, however, do actually enjoy ways to maximize our capabilities in game.

What is "tedious work setting up macros" to you is "striving to be the best" for us. Its kind of synonymous with the word "overachieving" and last time I checked that was rarely a bad thing. Speaking of which I feel like that is most people's gripe with gear swapping. You don't have to make multiple gear slots, just like you don't have to slot multiple materia. But some people's motivation is to prevent the people who will make multiple gear sets from doing so because then the parser would begin to frown upon them. And everyone likes to be a winner easily, yes?

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Originally Posted by weeble

none of the arguments need to be in place for this system to work, it doesn't even need to be gear swaps. i added this a few pages ago as well and it seems everyone steam rolled passed it. but we have a materia system for gear, a simple materia system for spells and moves that work like key items would fix every argument.

1. no macros to make, just click once to trigger it on for the move after you collected the piece from where ever it came from ..nm/dungeon what have you.

2. no blinking since it's not gear, this removes the "immersion" argument as well as the blinking problem even though even if it was on gear ...the system in 2012 doesn't need to blink.

3. space? it's a key item like materia that works like materia ..only difference maybe is u have option to turn it on or off, and maybe turn on a stronger one or something. what have you.

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I think we're all guilty of that at some point or another. I skimmed you first post but I was busy debating with someone else so I did "steam roll past it". But I do like your idea, any concept that gives more freedom to the player in the light of ways to customize/perfect their play style I welcome wholeheartedly.

Personally I don't care for the 20% success rate on the second Materia because all-or-nothing gambles aren't my cup of tea but I respect those people who do test their luck because their drive is simply a desire to be the best. While I do agree with many people and I myself honestly wish for more tactical gameplay-- we aren't playing a hacknslash RPG like Diablo or Vindictus so theres only so much "tacticallity" that this game can incorporate without becoming an awkward hybrid. Part of having a statistical based game (which XIV is and almost all RPGs are to an extent) is finding ways to maximize your statistical advantage. Call it whatever you like, stat allocation, Materia, gear swapping, immersion, whatever; its all designed with the same concept of gaining the highest statistical advantage you can get.

Gear swapping is the one thing I hated most about xi.

It looked silly when players would undress and dress inbetween weapon skills, like think about it hahahaha lol.

I hope this is never implemented in xiv

FFXI gear swap was more like a crutch I was forced to use because of SE's terrible way of itemizing gear, making me invisible 80% of the time just because they don't know how to put good stats on one piece of gear. And even if they did implement it without my character going into seizures, I do not want to be forced to have a full inventory constantly when there are so many classes in the game, and I'm forced to carry all this just because I'm expected be trying to maximize my damage. Main class that comes to mind, BLM. Do. Not. EVER. Want.

The materia system is so we destroy more gear and make the crafters more needed to make more for us

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Originally Posted by Frein

Cons:
- clutters the inventory with unnecessary items
- is conceptually ridiculous
- constantly changing gear looks silly even if it didn't blink your character
- having to macro all your abilities is unnecessary
- lets you have your cake and eat it too, which turns choices into no-brainers

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- clutters the inventory with unnecessary items
Which is something I addressed in my post you quoted by adding additional storage or inventory.

Other mmos have started to implement inventory macros where you enter your storage container and click an inventory pre-set of gear that automatically swaps them for you. This eliminates spending forever getting a different set classes gear out.


- constantly changing gear looks silly even if it didn't blink your character
Which is why I suggested that you should be able to lock a certain gear style in place.


- having to macro all your abilities is unnecessary

Again, this is something that is fixed with pre-set binds that are linked to abilities; similar to what spellcast did.



Anyone who seriously says the materia system in place is a legit 'endgame' gear system is delusional or trolling. The only thing the current system encourages is farming gil or buying it so you can keep crunching away at low percentages for gear.

It is without a doubt the worse system I've ever seen. SE might as well sell us gear at this point, because all you're going to end up doing to get gear is crafting hours and hours a day.

There is no cool instance/NM fight to get the best gear for your favorite job. The closest thing to a fight you can get into for your gear is grinding the same damn mob in the strongholds for materia over and over and over.

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Originally Posted by Montijin

- clutters the inventory with unnecessary items
Which is something I addressed in my post you quoted by adding additional storage or inventory.

Other mmos have started to implement inventory macros where you enter your storage container and click an inventory pre-set of gear that automatically swaps them for you. This eliminates spending forever getting a different set classes gear out.


- constantly changing gear looks silly even if it didn't blink your character
Which is why I suggested that you should be able to lock a certain gear style in place.


- having to macro all your abilities is unnecessary

Again, this is something that is fixed with pre-set binds that are linked to abilities; similar to what spellcast did.



Anyone who seriously says the materia system in place is a legit 'endgame' gear system is delusional or trolling. The only thing the current system encourages is farming gil or buying it so you can keep crunching away at low percentages for gear.

It is without a doubt the worse system I've ever seen. SE might as well sell us gear at this point, because all you're going to end up doing to get gear is crafting hours and hours a day.

There is no cool instance/NM fight to get the best gear for your favorite job. The closest thing to a fight you can get into for your gear is grinding the same damn mob in the strongholds for materia over and over and over.

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lololololol (10chars)

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Originally Posted by Frein

Oh, please. I bet most of us who feel very strongly against implementing mid-battle gear swaps carried tons of macro gear in FFXI.

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QFT. My inventory was at 75/80 for most jobs I played - I think only SAM had a few pieces but it wasn't a job I used much; more of a piss around thing. I even had to spend time strategically figuring out what gear was actually worth carrying around depending on what I was doing, which was mostly solo/lowman things. And I was quite happy to have that system in XI.

However, now (in XIV) I am very much enjoying the fact that I have to think what particular gear I want to wear simply because I cannot change it to have every single ability get maximum effect. It's all about being mindful of what you're responsibility is and how best to achieve that within the confines of the system. You can't simply have everything at maximum potential without sacrificing something somewhere and I'm fine with that. It isn't about being lazy; it's about considering what's important for the current situation.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

@Frein- The only thing that needs to be changed about the materia system is some of the specifics such as only being able to put this materia in this set piece of gear.

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Isn't this what the maximum caps are designed for? Considering you can only get ~200HP from materia bonuses (apparently, I've yet to really test the caps out; I just remember reading them) that should be what is taken into account, not which slots you can and cannot put them in. I understand the extra restrictions being put in place to stop a player from becoming over-powered but it would think it can be (and is somewhat already) balanced out with well designed/thought-out caps and smaller bonuses from individual materia. Also, the terrible success rate for attaching multiple materia makes this already a good system at preventing too much power on a single character.

no, just no. gear swaps in XI were rediculous and should never have been possible.