What if I don't WANT skills on my bar?

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Look, I'm not arguing that I don't have space. I get that.

Why am I forced to have them on my bar?

Thats my question.

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The counter question is why do you care, since you're not hurting for space?

I currently only ever use my first bar. Everything else is macroed in. This will not affect me in the slightest.

what if i dont want the bar all together the one with the skills on it?
I just want to use macros...

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Originally Posted by Ruinaru

I know you get that. I'm illustrating a point. Their presence isn't hurting you in any way, so why do they need to be removed completely? Why are you so opposed to them being there?

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Why should they be equipped if we're not going to use them?

Some people are minimalists, and just don't want "clutter" on their bars, even if that clutter is well out of the way. . .

Seriously, another mountain out of a molehill thread. If the spot is going to be there whether there's an ability slotted or not, why does it matter? The bar will always be there if you bring it up regardless of the picture in place. This is pure whining for the sake of doing it.

What if I want 5 bars with 6 skills on them instead of 3 bars with 10 skills ?

I should have the freedom to do so.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Why should they be equipped if we're not going to use them?

Some people are minimalists, and just don't want "clutter" on their bars, even if that clutter is well out of the way. . .

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I hate that I have to have an action bar and that they're going to incorporate multiple bars shown at once, I'm also one of these minimalists, however the fact we're getting skills trimmed and rebalanced there's a reason for it, much like the reason they threw in sidequests on a buggy game foundation was to get the system itself in and adjust it later.

Though no matter what SE does there will be complaints about it.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Why should they be equipped if we're not going to use them?

Some people are minimalists, and just don't want "clutter" on their bars, even if that clutter is well out of the way. . .

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Just seems silly to me to rule something out completely. Everything has some use some times, and I'm of the opinion that it's better to have access to as much as you can, just in case.

But if that's your opinion, you're free to have it. I'm in no position to say otherwise.

For me, it comes down to how I organize my bars.

I separate the actions on my bars with an empty space.

1-3 Standard attacks
4 empty
5-8 weaponskills
9 empty
0 Featerfoot

11-14 self buffs
15 empty
16-19 situational
20 Empty

21-23 single target taunts
24 empty
25-28 aoe taunts
29-30 empty


New system does not allow this because my bars will have actions I can not remove.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

For me, it comes down to how I organize my bars.

I separate the actions on my bars with an empty space.

1-3 Standard attacks
4 empty
5-8 weaponskills
9 empty
0 Featerfoot

11-14 self buffs
15 empty
16-19 situational
20 Empty

21-23 single target taunts
24 empty
25-28 aoe taunts
29-30 empty


New system does not allow this because my bars will have actions I can not remove.

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You have it arranged with the skills we have available now. I would say wait until next week to see how they will change. then with the five remaining slots available separate them across your three bars? ;p

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

For me, it comes down to how I organize my bars.

I separate the actions on my bars with an empty space.

1-3 Standard attacks
4 empty
5-8 weaponskills
9 empty
0 Featerfoot

11-14 self buffs
15 empty
16-19 situational
20 Empty

21-23 single target taunts
24 empty
25-28 aoe taunts
29-30 empty


New system does not allow this because my bars will have actions I can not remove.

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Hmmmm... strange! Do you have fat fingers or you just like empty spaces? And are you a mouse-clicker? I'm a minimalist but that just seems wasteful to me... that poor 4 key.

I lol at this thread...and what a weird system you got there, look like you are not a macro fan right ?

ninja edit: key 4 is my favorite key for bad situation :x

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

I lol at this thread...and what a weird system you got there, look like you are not a macro fan right ?

ninja edit: key 4 is my favorite key for bad situation :x

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I macro everything on bars 2 and 3.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I macro everything on bars 2 and 3.

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..... then what is the point of the blank spaces?

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Originally Posted by RemVye

..... then what is the point of the blank spaces?

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My sanity.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

For me, it comes down to how I organize my bars.

I separate the actions on my bars with an empty space.

1-3 Standard attacks
4 empty
5-8 weaponskills
9 empty
0 Featerfoot

11-14 self buffs
15 empty
16-19 situational
20 Empty

21-23 single target taunts
24 empty
25-28 aoe taunts
29-30 empty


New system does not allow this because my bars will have actions I can not remove.

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i'm not going to bash your system, if it works for you great. but it does seem a little rigid to me. anyhoo i'm guessing that system uses a lot of cross-class abilities. i'm guessing cross-class abilities won't be used quite as much, or as useful as they are now. so you will be forced to change your system anyway

honestly the implications bother me more than the reality, but there really is no logical reason why you should HAVE to do it. The only gain to having to place every skill is its slightly easier for noobs, but i think customization of your skill bar outweighs this.

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Originally Posted by Ruinaru

Just seems silly to me to rule something out completely. Everything has some use some times, and I'm of the opinion that it's better to have access to as much as you can, just in case.

But if that's your opinion, you're free to have it. I'm in no position to say otherwise.

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Well, let's take the example from the same dev post. WS1 is your base, WS2 is +enmity, WS3 and WS4 are +damage. Now, if that's on a class that I only ever play to farm mats or to DD on bosses, WS2 is useless to me. Like, completely useless. Yeah, I could try using it for just plain damage, but why do that when a combo with WS3 and WS4 will do significantly more damage?

Conversely, if this is the class I tank on, WS3 and WS4 are almost useless, unless maybe we're on a burn phase of the fight and my enmity has a solid lead.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I macro everything on bars 2 and 3.

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then skill dont need to have space between em and what s with the "sanity" reply ?

keep in mind guys, these changes are still in their feedback phase, so dont be afraid to disagree NOW, the question is what do you gain by HAVING to have all abilities equipped no mater what? I dont really see why even code this in.

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Originally Posted by Physic

honestly the implications bother me more than the reality, but there really is no logical reason why you should HAVE to do it. The only gain to having to place every skill is its slightly easier for noobs, but i think customization of your skill bar outweighs this.

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I think the reasoning behind it is in the text before these changes are enumerated:

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Furthermore, no differentiation is currently being made between setting an action learned through the current class and one belonging to another. This has rendered it difficult for each class to retain its uniqueness.

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In other words, it's completely doable to populate your skill bar with ONLY abilities from other classes and absolutely none from your own. This new system forces you to have all of your abilities equipped, thus forces you to play your own class.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

then skill dont need to have space between em and what s with the "sanity" reply ?

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So one of his followers can give him thumbs up for no reason... ofc


If action bar 2 and 3 are macro'd you should never switch to them ever... and if that's the case the order or arrangement of either bar is pointless.

You're just complaining to complain at this point. I typically agree with you Mog but this is a very petty argument.

I am fine with this. Just move the ones I don't want at the end. We should see what abilities they are giving us before we start making complaints that we don't want something on the bar.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

the bar is 30 slots, you can only equip 25 skills, put the ones you dont like on the bottom

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This, there's also going to be 5 job related quests (30, 35, 40, 45 and 50). Even if each one would give you a job related ability you won't run into a problem where you can't fit all the allowed abilities on your bar.

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Originally Posted by Reliquia

This, there's also going to be 5 job related quests (30, 35, 40, 45 and 50). Even if each one would give you a job related ability you won't run into a problem where you can't fit all the allowed abilities on your bar.

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Jobs also have a limited set of abilities you can equip, if any, from other classes. I'd assume for PLD for example you can only equip Glad and Mrd skills (going by their example). And possibly only a select few MRD skills.

Wait and see is always the best answer.

Out of curiosity, has anyone discussed the implications of this topic beyond level 50? I see so many comments focusing on the 'right now', and very few of the 'when the level cap is increased and we have more stuff forced onto the bar'. I for one would like to know what they have in mind when this becomes a reality.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseLallaise

Out of curiosity, has anyone discussed the implications of this topic beyond level 50? I see so many comments focusing on the 'right now', and very few of the 'when the level cap is increased and we have more stuff forced onto the bar'. I for one would like to know what they have in mind when this becomes a reality.

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They could potentially increase level by 10 and still have enough room. They aren't considering anything about level cap increase until post 1.21 and they may decide to wait until 2.0 so that there isn't "a wide gap in levels" as they put it. In 2.0 they stated they plan to have drag and drop abilities.

I think this is a non-issue for the time being.

Come on guys, it's not the end of the world... yet! xD

S

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Im not discussing the fact that I can have everything on my bar.

I am discussing the fact that I CANT take anything OFF the bar.

Why the hell do I need every single action on my bar ALL THE TIME?

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Its best if we can't take them off, this will ensure that people have the necessary abilities to fullfill class uniqeness and role for combat. If you take stuff players will ask you to put it back on.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseLallaise

Out of curiosity, has anyone discussed the implications of this topic beyond level 50? I see so many comments focusing on the 'right now', and very few of the 'when the level cap is increased and we have more stuff forced onto the bar'. I for one would like to know what they have in mind when this becomes a reality.

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I would like to know as well, but it does not bother me. To worry about what will be done when cap is increased is not my job.

I.. yeah I'd want to be able to remove certain skills, too.

Honestly you lot bang on about standard MMO features being lacking from this game and the importance of player choice; guess which one's been a standard since.. well, did Ultima Online have the ability to choose what you want and don't on your action bar? What about Everquest? God knows Ragnarok Online did, and that's one of the big three early MMO's anyway.

Sure it's no massive issue, but why make it mandatory at all? If nothing else it's just annoying, and any small way to reduce annoyance is something any sane developer should be leaping on.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

They should bring back menus *pause for outrage and cries of 'this is not ffxi-2'*

No seriously... Give us a menu that fills with our class abilities and allow us to populate it with cross class abilities, then allow us to drag those abilities into the action bar.

The menus should be accessible during combat so we can still use abilities that aren't in our action bar and furthermore we should be able to place macros directly in the action bar as well.

My bigger concern is going to be the nature of DoM with the severely limited 15 actions per class.

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Sorry to bump my own post... but it seems to largely have been missed in the hubbub. Or perhaps no one has any opinions on it.

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Originally Posted by Answa

I think the reasoning behind it is in the text before these changes are enumerated:



In other words, it's completely doable to populate your skill bar with ONLY abilities from other classes and absolutely none from your own. This new system forces you to have all of your abilities equipped, thus forces you to play your own class.

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Its fine to seperate out in job skills and cross class skills into different categories but there is virtually nothing gained by making your bar HAVE to have every skill on it. Im not saying we should be able to eq whatever we want im saying, if you only want 10 of your 15 abilities on your bar, why should you not have the option? Essentially as has been said action bar customization is one of the oldest things available in MMOs, even if your skill pool is limited, the action bar is the UI not the system mechanics. It essentially the skills people want to see, and where they want to see them, there is no reason to make it non customizable.

As a different issue i dont think they should commit to having only 15 basic skills in existence, even if you have to choose 15 skills to have at one time, but thats a different issue.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

Sorry to bump my own post... but it seems to largely have been missed in the hubbub. Or perhaps no one has any opinions on it.

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menus suck for fast paced fighting imo. I didnt want to hate on your idea, but it just seems like a pretty bad idea to me.

That's only if you are forced to use the menu exclusively. but the menu does still allow access to all of our abilities and give us complete freedom to set up our action bars however we want.

i understand everyones point in that you cant run out of space and this personally doesnt affect me all that much, however, is there an actual reason for forcing it on us?
i dont understand why its being forced. is it a programming issue that just makes it easier for them or something? again whats the point of forcing it?

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Originally Posted by Ferth

That's only if you are forced to use the menu exclusively. but the menu does still allow access to all of our abilities and give us complete freedom to set up our action bars however we want.

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I see, so you are saying they are forcing allocation so that people have access to all skills of that job through some means.

In that case i wouldnt mind it.

then keep action bar as your own personal choice for your UI. maybe even make it more customizable. I would be down with that, but i dont know if thats the reasoning behind it.

So SE want's to allow us to mod ui in v2.0 but now forces us to equip skills? I see a contradiction here in design philosophy...

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Originally Posted by Ferth

That's only if you are forced to use the menu exclusively. but the menu does still allow access to all of our abilities and give us complete freedom to set up our action bars however we want.

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That would be fine, in my opinion. I just don't understand the philosophy of wanting to remove a skill that could come in handy, just because you don't think you'll use it. If you have it at your disposal, why not keep it at your disposal, even if you don't use it?

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Originally Posted by Physic

Its fine to seperate out in job skills and cross class skills into different categories but there is virtually nothing gained by making your bar HAVE to have every skill on it. Im not saying we should be able to eq whatever we want im saying, if you only want 10 of your 15 abilities on your bar, why should you not have the option? Essentially as has been said action bar customization is one of the oldest things available in MMOs, even if your skill pool is limited, the action bar is the UI not the system mechanics. It essentially the skills people want to see, and where they want to see them, there is no reason to make it non customizable.

As a different issue i dont think they should commit to having only 15 basic skills in existence, even if you have to choose 15 skills to have at one time, but thats a different issue.

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The language is kind of ambiguous as to those being just levels at which you get abilities or levels at which you get one ability.

OP ... for not wanting extra skills available ( or just bad because brain can't process 30 skills on bar ), other people arguing AGAINST being able to remove skills at will are ..., as customization is always a +.

OP is less ... for being on the side of customization. Argue for customization instead of for being ....