RIP WHM

WHM is still #1 at both Hot heals and Aoe heals.. So no.. Nice try ^^

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Why would we? Scholar is not just about adlo and succor.
He have a fairy and her buff, we have Aetherflow stack and strong instant heal (indom,lustrate), eye for an eye, deploiement tactic, a lot of dot, energy drain to get some more mana...
It's a different gameplay. We don't have the same skills. And it's the same for WHM.

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Sorry, I probably should clarify. I wasnt saying SCHs should be crying over it, or that succor and adlo is all they do. (im a sch myself) my point was mainly that WHM is far from dead IMO. I agree that any healer combo will work, and hopefully itll let ASTs get to use thier other stance. Sorry for the confusion

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Originally Posted by Lulu89

WHM is still #1 at both Hot heals and Aoe heals.. So no.. Nice try ^^

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Utility is what threatens WHM. Healing can always be met by the other healers.

No, don't worry, there was no confusion.
I understood why you said that.

I was only arguing precisely why scholar 'don't cry' about this Noct.Ast buff. ^^

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Utility is what threatens WHM. Healing can always be met by the other healers.

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Mostly "utility" along FFXIV lines is "ability to DPS" or "ability to buff group's DPS", sadly, but this is pretty much the right of it. They can't design content around requiring a WHM's maximum output of healing, and that's the only real thing it has going for it ATM. In an ideal world, a WHM would just make things "easier", but when we're talking about groups at the max level of play pretty much all of them will be able to slot a DiAST in as a the main heal role, and when they do that, that WILL have a trickle-down effect into more casual/midcore statics, just like when AST and MCH were being excluded from content during 3.1.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Fixed.
Hello fflogs.

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Patch 3.4 notes:

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Alexander (Savage)


Alexander (Savage) can only be accessed via the Raid Finder.
* Item level restrictions do not apply when registering as a full party.

Level Requirement
Disciple of War or Magic level 60
(Two or more of the same job is not permitted)

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Honestly, as someone who used to main WHM, and now mains PLD, I can understand where people come from on WHM being "Dead". I too, felt threatened by AST, but more than that, it's the fact that WHM was no longer unique...

When it comes to threads like this, the OP arent complaining so much about other classes being buffed as WHM continually being "Not Special". AST has cards, SCH, has its pets, WHM has....

Many parallel WHM with PLD in its reliability, but even PLD has a shield to make it feel special. WHM just has "slightly better heals... kinda", and that's not very rewarding to a lot of players.

Square could do a lot of things to make WHM stand out again, perhaps give it more surviveability? Bring back Wands and Healer shields for WHM. Make them useful and effective; a healer that can spend more time healing others because it doesnt have to worry about healing itself kind of thing. Or perhaps enhance WHM Resurrection capabilities by negating/reducing Weakness - building on its current moniker of a "Learning/Forgiveness/Safety" Party Healer. There are likely much better ideas, but these are just off the top of my head.

White Mages just want to be able to do something other healers can't; they want to bring something to the table that others aren't capable of. Every other class has their own gimmick that makes them special/unique, what does White Mage have?

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Cure III, Assize, Asylum, Benediction.
It's like some people in this thread forgot that these skills still exist and are the reason why WHM remains a superior healer able to answer to more situations than the AST.

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Assize is fantastic.
Cure III is seeing quite a bit of action in HW and is a very welcome skill.

But ill need to disagree with the other 2.

Benediction is the worst insta-heal. Once the potency is large enough for a save, its all about the accessibility. Benediction is easily outclassed by ED and lustrate, and I'd rather have CU or SS over Asylum.

At the end of the day though most WHM skills and the playstyle are very similar. Stat differences are the biggest thing separating the two, and this has even been acknowledged by the devs back when AST was terrible:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3128545

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Q16. In regards to the effect of Protect and Stoneskin, can you add some type of advantage, similar to pre-patch 3.0, for white mages?

A16. As I mentioned previously, we made adjustments to actions that were largely based on stat percentages, and due to this the identity of each job was lost when using these abilities as additional actions. I apologize for this.

However, to compensate for this, we've added in a great deal of healing power.

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As AST gets buffed, that "great deal of healing power" becomes a little less great, and the WHM identity, a little more lost.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

what does White Mage have?

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The great abilities to whine every time Astrologian get buffed.
And it's annoying.

Nocturnal Ast can shield better than scholar, scholar don't cry.
Diurnal Ast can put regen, Whm cry because this and that.

We'll end up being tired of repeting again and again what WHM have the other don't.

Things are good as they are now.
Play your whm and stop feeling threatened for nothing.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

The great abilities to whine every time Astrologian get buffed.
And it's annoying.

Nocturnal Ast can shield better than scholar, scholar don't cry.
Diurnal Ast can put regen, Whm cry because this and that.

We'll end up being tired of repeting again and again what WHM have the other don't.

Things are good as they are now.
Play your whm and stop feeling threatened for nothing.

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I... don't think you read my post at all, but thanks for your constructive contribution?

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

The great abilities to whine every time Astrologian get buffed.
And it's annoying.

Nocturnal Ast can shield better than scholar, scholar don't cry.
Diurnal Ast can put regen, Whm cry because this and that.

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You pretty much contradicted yourself here. Earlier you made a post stating the exact reasons why Scholars do not cry about shields. It's because our gameplay comes from a combination of the fairie, mitigation and DoTs.

White Mage, on the other hand, does not really have anything else going for it. So when a competing job gets buffed, they have every right to be worried. For the billionth time, it is not advantageous to have extra healing power when the game simply does not require it.

Everything can be made viable, but there is no doubt that d.AST/SCH is going to be the best composition in 3.4.

White Mage isn't going anywhere. Too quick to jump the gun and supposed to wait a few days for ppl to test it out to see how the meta game is.

Did you guys forget the fact that AST is retarded braindead boring and is just a abomination copy/paste fail hybrid of WHM/SCH?
Even with the meta, I would rather uninstall the game than to pick up an AST.

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Originally Posted by Yona87

Did you guys forget the fact that AST is retarded braindead boring and is just a abomination copy/paste fail hybrid of WHM/SCH?
Even with the meta, I would rather uninstall the game than to pick up an AST.

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Somebody sounds a little angry.

AST is now a considerable flex pick. I still think DiAst is better than NoctAst since being able to extend duration of regens is ridiculous for being able to DPS as an AST. Noct Ast is just better able to replace a SCH in fights where you absolutely need that shield for tank busters but I don't think the extra 10% healing makes up for the double regens, though I do think someone did the math and Aspected Benefic is almost as MP Efficient as a normal Benefic in situations where the target isn't already shielded, so you can use Aspected Benefic almost exclusively for healing when the tank isn't getting busted.

Also 10% AoE damage boost on the group is ridiculous.

I can see AST being a lil boring due to the changes in the cards cause it's going to make ppl focused on getting the balance more than ever. Was happy, but then thinking about it it doesn't make sense. For the bole buff I can accept, but the balance? I can see alot of ppl just go crazy asking for it especially w/ either AoE, Extended, or Enhanced w/ Time Dilation or CO. The Spear buff to me is needed cause no one don't really use it like that.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Patch 3.4 notes: (Two or more of the same job is not permitted)

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That's only for Raid finder, isn't it?
That, or all these people are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

That's only for Raid finder, isn't it?
That, or all these people are wrong.

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"Alexander (Savage) can only be accessed via the Raid Finder."

I will assume double teaming on one class is a thing of the past.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

I can see AST being a lil boring due to the changes in the cards cause it's going to make ppl focused on getting the balance more than ever. Was happy, but then thinking about it it doesn't make sense. For the bole buff I can accept, but the balance? I can see alot of ppl just go crazy asking for it especially w/ either AoE, Extended, or Enhanced w/ Time Dilation or CO. The Spear buff to me is needed cause no one don't really use it like that.

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You're losing more time and opportunity baiting à balance than using all card of your deck
Except for spire every card are useful and provide good support you just have to learn how to use and maximise it in a split second each draw

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I think there is no limit if you go in a pre-made team

Going for Balance (with Arrow as a consolation prize) is the only logical way to go now. The buff to it is pretty much the message SE's sent out. Tanks don't map out CDs on the basis they'll get Boles, so that increase is merely a bonus than something you plan your playstyle around.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Utility is what threatens WHM. Healing can always be met by the other healers.

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WHM has always been raw healing power. If it got tons of utility too why would we even have three healing jobs? WHM is #1 at what it does. Not all raids/content are going to cater to what it excels at (for obvious reasons).

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

... just like when AST and MCH were being excluded from content during 3.1.

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AST has been excluded from a decent amount of content either because it still has the stigma from the original release, or because many people believed it was not on par with WHM. So, I just find it interesting that WHMs suddenly feel threatened. As far as I'm aware WHM has always been needed/preferred in the past. Why shouldn't AST be favored for once? (And who is to say it will even be preferred? The patch just came out today.)

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

WHM has always been raw healing power. If it got tons of utility too why would we even have three healing jobs? WHM is #1 at what it does. Not all raids/content are going to cater to what it excels at (for obvious reasons).

AST has been excluded from a decent amount of content either because it still has the stigma from the original release, or because many people believed it was not on par with WHM. So, I just find it interesting that WHMs suddenly feel threatened. As far as I'm aware WHM has always been needed/preferred in the past. Why shouldn't AST be favored for once? (And who is to say it will even be preferred? The patch just came out today.)

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White Mage has the least amount of raid utility of all the healers and hasn't been "needed" in savage since the 3.07 buffs. The job doesn't offer anything more than raw healing power and instants, which is perfectly okay. That is why raids take a Scholar as the off-healer for mitigation.

It's even a fallacy to think White Mage is a "safer" option than Astro. Diurnal Astro has better raid mitigation utility, up to 20% with Disable and CU.

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Originally Posted by technole

Diurnal Astro has better raid mitigation utility.

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Why are you comparing mitigation with raw healing?

Anyways.
The only issue that makes WHM lackluster on this raid patch is that there isn't enough damage going off that needs to be healed asap like there was for gordias and midas and some trials like nidex, does that invalidates WHM? No. It only makes fights more prone to be solo healed later on and/or gives both healers more space to dps. Either way like i pointed out on the rip sch thread, nobody cares about party composition other than world 1st groups and even those went with both whm/sch and ast/sch.

I do agree that they need to do something about WHM healing too much, mainly if they're going to make raid bosses hit like wet noodles, but saying a class is dead is just plain silly. Though do say WHM is dead, i want my holy back to 240 potency without damage fall off and hundreds of mp regen ticks like ast got over the past year.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

Why are you comparing mitigation with raw healing

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They go hand in hand.

Mitigation lowers the amount you have to heal. So an AST/SCH comp can mitigate more than a WHM/SCH comp and as such, don't need as much raw healing.

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

They go hand in hand.

Mitigation lowers the amount you have to heal. So an AST/SCH comp can mitigate more than a WHM/SCH comp and as such, don't need as much raw healing.

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Exactly, and considering the amount of darkness damage we had to deal with in Midas, Disable was many times better than Arcanist Virus. White Mage has nothing mitigation wise for this kind of damage like Swindler Bio, Justice's J-Kick, etc. Therefore AST making healing much less, in a sense also making up for our lower regen potency.

Combined mitigation couldn't be more prevalent in A8S. Many WHM/SCH groups used tank LB3 to mitigate the heaviest J-Kick during progression. AST/SCH mitigation with CU, Disable, Adlo Spread, and Soil negated such use.

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

They go hand in hand.

Mitigation lowers the amount you have to heal. So an AST/SCH comp can mitigate more than a WHM/SCH comp and as such, don't need as much raw healing.

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But it's also true if a buster doesn't go over your hp pool, mitigation won't be necessary. Main reason i miss 2.x raiding where stuff actually forced us to meld vit and mitigation on busters. Even t11 which was in the easiest coil tier needed virus, adlo and stoneskin to survive the phase swap after adds.

We're at the point that if a WHM is absolutely needed, AST/SCH won't be able to heal the fight. But because yoshida wants all healers to make part, we'll always have fights that don't work like 2.x ones where you needed mitigation just to survive and then raw heal to be topped off before the next buster. 3.0 and the bad decisions concerning healers is what put us in this situation.

No one is asking for mitigation tools for WHM. The problem here is that with the current buff, even on progression, having a healer capable of putting HPS numbers close to WHM and adding to the raid DPS is better than bringing a WHM just for "safety". Once a fight is on farm, there is absolutely no reason to bring a WHM.

Our class lacks 'flavor' - and this is a problem since Heavensward released. WHM has always been a plain job, but by taking away exclusive traits they made it TOO plain.

Also I want to add that the argument about "WHM is a basic healer in every FF game" is not entirely true. White Mages had acess to spells like Arise (a full-life raise) and Reraise (auto-raise) that, if implemented (even in a nerfed form) could totally change the current situation.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

But it's also true if a buster doesn't go over your hp pool, mitigation won't be necessary. Main reason i miss 2.x raiding where stuff actually forced us to meld vit and mitigation on busters. Even t11 which was in the easiest coil tier needed virus, adlo and stoneskin to survive the phase swap after adds.

We're at the point that if a WHM is absolutely needed, AST/SCH won't be able to heal the fight. But because yoshida wants all healers to make part, we'll always have fights that don't work like 2.x ones where you needed mitigation just to survive and then raw heal to be topped off before the next buster. 3.0 and the bad decisions concerning healers is what put us in this situation.

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HP mitigated is HP that doesn't need to be healed. Just because it's not necessary doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

If raids are such that heavy mitigation is needed, it would be WHM/SCH who would have trouble not AST/SCH. The only way WHM will become mandatory is if there is an encounter that requires Cure 3 to survive.

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

HP mitigated is HP that doesn't need to be healed. Just because it's not necessary doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

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I didn't said it had no value, i said that it works both ways around. As long damage doesn't go over hp values and there is no incoming damage in the next 2 gcds, any healer can outheal any buster.


Lets assume every no-tank party member has 20k hp and no crits (lets leave rng out of this, values slightly bloated to take fairy in consideration).

Aoe buster drops in and deals 18k dmg.
SCH uses deployment and shields everyone for 4k hp. +Adlo +Deployment tactics
That's 14k that still needs to be healed. +Emergency tactics +Succor +Indomitability +1 aether stack
Roughly 9k hp got healed in 2 gcds, lets have the co-healer/fairy/hots handle the rest.

Adlo+deployment precast for 4k mitigated + 9k healed in 2 gcds for 2386 mp + 1 aether stack and 5 skills used. (energy drain has a rough 900 mp return so we can consider 3286 mp was used)

Again the same buster drops in and deals 18k dmg.
WHM uses divine seal + cure III.
8k damage healed. 10k to go. +Divine seal +Cure III
8k damage healed. 2k to go. +Cure III
Hots/cohealer/fairy can handle the rest

16k damage healed with 3 skills, 1 precast, 3358 mp used.

Literally the same thing, mitigation can only be considered superior if we have a party with 20k hp and buster deals 22k damage for example. Also not doing for AST cause id have to do for diurnal and nocturnal. Should be pretty similar to both above anyways.

This is also what kills WHM, SCH shouldn't be able to heal a buster in 2 gcds even though it uses more ogcd skills and then we have the fights that give you 3 more more gcds to top everyone off even making the heal check more lax to non whm healers.
This was actually balanced on 2.x since succor wasn't able to heal everyone off (no ET), indo didn't exist and you couldn't shield everyone off in 2 buttons.

Whm may have higher healing potencies but Ast has something far more desired and that's dps hence world first clears with Ast,Sch

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Originally Posted by mp-please

I didn't said it had no value, i said that it works both ways around. As long damage doesn't go over hp values and there is no incoming damage in the next 2 gcds, any healer can outheal any buster.


Lets assume every no-tank party member has 20k hp and no crits (lets leave rng out of this, values slightly bloated to take fairy in consideration).

Aoe buster drops in and deals 18k dmg.
SCH uses deployment and shields everyone for 4k hp. +Adlo +Deployment tactics
That's 14k that still needs to be healed. +Emergency tactics +Succor +Indomitability +1 aether stack
Roughly 9k hp got healed in 2 gcds, lets have the co-healer/fairy/hots handle the rest.

Adlo+deployment precast for 4k mitigated + 9k healed in 2 gcds for 2386 mp + 1 aether stack and 5 skills used. (energy drain has a rough 900 mp return so we can consider 3286 mp was used)

Again the same buster drops in and deals 18k dmg.
WHM uses divine seal + cure III.
8k damage healed. 10k to go. +Divine seal +Cure III
8k damage healed. 2k to go. +Cure III
Hots/cohealer/fairy can handle the rest

16k damage healed with 3 skills, 1 precast, 3358 mp used.

Literally the same thing, mitigation can only be considered superior if we have a party with 20k hp and buster deals 22k damage for example. Also not doing for AST cause id have to do for diurnal and nocturnal. Should be pretty similar to both above anyways.

This is also what kills WHM, SCH shouldn't be able to heal a buster in 2 gcds even though it uses more ogcd skills and then we have the fights that give you 3 more more gcds to top everyone off even making the heal check more lax to non whm healers.
This was actually balanced on 2.x since succor wasn't able to heal everyone off (no ET), indo didn't exist and you couldn't shield everyone off in 2 buttons.

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Putting AST in a similar situation, we don't have a cure 3 heal bomb. We also currently don't need one. We can just mitigate it and heal less (compared to a WHM), but accomplishing the same thing as a WHM. This is done by relying on a combination of healing and mitigation rather than pure healing.

So in using your example:
18k raid wide damage to non tanks.
Disable + Collective reduces that to 14.4k damage (3.6k mitigated).
Synastry + Helios x 3 = 12.3k healed.
Collective HoT 2 ticks = 3.6k healed. (sometimes could get a 3rd tick is timed right)
Total healing done = 15.9k

3 skills used, 3180 MP used (note: basing this of my ilvl which is 247).

I think that's right, but do check my math if it doesn't look right.

There's also sustained AoE healing to consider. SCH cannot sustain heal and in certain fights like A11S, it proper cycling of mitigation and healing is needed.

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

So in using your example:
18k raid wide damage to non tanks.
Disable + Collective reduces that to 14.4k damage (3.6k mitigated) precast
1st gcd Synastry + Helios = 4.1k healed. 10.3 to go
2nd gcd Helios = +4.1k healed, 6.2k to go which can be covered by fairy/hots/cohealer
+Collective HoT 2 ticks = 3.6k healed.
Total healing done = 15.4k, 2.6k heal that can be covered by fairy/remaining CU hots/cohealer
5 skills used, 2 precasted with 2120 MP used

There's also sustained AoE healing to consider. SCH cannot sustain heal and in certain fights like A11S, it proper cycling of mitigation and healing is needed.

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My math wasn't too precise either, just changed some stuff so it's similar to what i've done (mainly the 2 gcd part since you had a extra helios cast that wasn't needed), but yea it's within what i was expecting of ast. And what you've pointed out is also true about SCH, there is no DT or ET after a rotation like the one i've pointed out.

So yea it's easy to see how all that whm has on it's favor is how readily available it is to heal burst damage. AST still needs disable+CU, SCH still needs ET+DT while WHM doesn't need exactly need DS to cure III spam but this kind of burst healing isn't exactly necessary on this patch due to it's lower difficulty nature.
If 4.0 raiding is similar to the creator, WHM will definitely need some major changes, not because it's bad, but because it's way too good.


Edit: Meanwhile a year ago.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

The main issue about white mage is that burst healing starts becoming irrelevant as more people learn the fight and get overgeared for it, we could say burst healing is negatively proportional to overgear. Now it's not noticeable because back on ARR 2.0-2.1 required a lot of burst healing, but some months after SCOB got released together with soldiery tomestones people were so overgeared that burst healing became irrelevant and so the "sch can solo heal everything" began and that kept going to fcob because yoshida didn't stop and think "damn, i130 might be a bit too much for this kind of instance".

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Originally Posted by mp-please

Cure III
(...) However like i said before the usefulness of cure III is negatively proportional to overgear and this game has history of throwing unnecessary gear levels to people to the point FCOB was being solo healed a month after it's release. We'll eventually get again to the point where a single medica II does the job and currently astrologian can do that with negligible losses. To add up they even gave scholars the ability to burst aoe heal with indomitability.

(...)
Once again overgear is a huge concern of mine as nobody cares about healing numbers as long healing is done and in a few months nobody will care if white mage heals for more than everyone else because that heal bonus will only result on overheal. All people will care will be "can the healer dps while it doesn't need to heal?"
SCH does their job as the summoner lite that they're, AST has no issues in maintaining the DoTs and buff everyone with their cards that has absolutely no mp cost and then we have WHM with the best single target dps that has to spend millions on melds just to hit stuff with their "best" dps which result on a huge mnd, pie and det loss compared to full i210 accessories.

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It's like clockwork.

From my experience, healing in A9S and A10S is light, but A11S ramps it up. Especially this early into progression. However, I can see in a few weeks with more gear, the margin of error will be much higher. Haven't been in 12 yet but I would imagine it would be similar to 11 if not harder to heal.

But yea, the point I was getting at is that AST can match the raw healing of WHM by using a combination of mitigation and raw heals. In the case of WHM with better gear making excess healing, I don't think there is much to be done about it other than the content, like you said, being more requiring of the raw healing. Though, I disagree with the notion that AST/SCH comp won't be able to keep up.

RIP WHM
mmm, now where have I seen this kind of thread?
ah, here we are:
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20747424787
http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17612943974
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=...i-p-fire-mages
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749196305

Thought I recognized the familiar smell.

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

AST has been excluded from a decent amount of content either because it still has the stigma from the original release, or because many people believed it was not on par with WHM. So, I just find it interesting that WHMs suddenly feel threatened. As far as I'm aware WHM has always been needed/preferred in the past. Why shouldn't AST be favored for once? (And who is to say it will even be preferred? The patch just came out today.)

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What is with this mindset of "buzz off, WHMs had their turn, it's AST's time now"? Are you really that petty? ALL compositions should be viable, that's what I'm trying to express. I say this as an AST main, even, who used to get quite the stigma from the parties I grouped with. I still remember how every Vault wipe was my fault, and every Thordan EX wipe was my fault. (I never even cleared that one because I got tired of the anti-AST bias with parties for it.) I STILL don't want WHMs to be left out in the cold of favor of ASTs. I want SE to fix their crappy healer balance, and work on designing future healing jobs to have unique playstyles and fill different niches, not just a "burst or mitigative" healer trend.

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AST has been excluded from a decent amount of content

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i dont know about your server but here in tonberry i never see anyone straight up "pointing" AST is bad and then rage quit or immediately vote kick at the party/raid pre 3.4, hell i never even see a general chat talking about "this class is bad" type of talk, and i mostly spend my time idling in major town.

i DO however notice a decent increase of AST in my server now, doing a lot of DF and i rarely see WHM this day, no change on SCH though.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

What is with this mindset of "buzz off, WHMs had their turn, it's AST's time now"? Are you really that petty? ALL compositions should be viable, that's what I'm trying to express. I say this as an AST main, even, who used to get quite the stigma from the parties I grouped with. I still remember how every Vault wipe was my fault, and every Thordan EX wipe was my fault. (I never even cleared that one because I got tired of the anti-AST bias with parties for it.) I STILL don't want WHMs to be left out in the cold of favor of ASTs. I want SE to fix their crappy healer balance, and work on designing future healing jobs to have unique playstyles and fill different niches, not just a "burst or mitigative" healer trend.

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That's because a lot of ASTs accuse WHMs of being salty. But then anyone would be salty.

SE literally took WHM toolkit and handed it over to AST with lower mp costs and higher mp regen regardless AST having ewer. 3.2 AST mp regen was already higher than SCH but someone on SE team decided that wasn't enough so they gave ASTs yet more LA ticks for 3.4. And that was before counting with ewers.

SE constantly balances dps with brd/mch nin/mnk to keep the classes balanced, but when AST got buffed nothing was done to SCH/WHM.

When AST skillset got equalized to WHM in potencies, either AST mp costs should've increased as well or WHM mp costs decreased. Nothing was changed
When CU got buffed, stoneskin II should've been allowed in combat at 0mp cost as well (w/ cooldown ofc) so all 3 healers had a 10% shield, either that or add it up to asylum. Nothing was changed
When proshell and graniteskin got homogenized for all healers and ast given disable, supervirus and enhanced E4E should've been as well. Nothing was changed.
When, somewhere in development, someone decided to remove accuracy on healer gear WHM should've had accuracy changes to either cleric or to at least aero dots. Nothing was c... actually one thing changed, they gave more offensive spells to WHM to miss their targets. I don't mind the extra dps but this is a good example of the saying that god gives nuts to men without teeth.
When AST was equal to WHM in terms to mp regen but yet given more mp regen capabilities, WHM should've shroud buffed as well or at least freecure proc more often than 15%. Nothing was changed.

The changes above would've been nice, not really needed but they would make pretty good QoLs. After all if they really wanted to homogenize all healers, WHM would have at least supervirus, enhanced e4e and a aoe 10% mitigation.

And to add to the salt, people seem to like to trashtalk WHM for some reason, since SCH got buffed on early ARR that WHM was always labeled the worse healer because it heals too much, but damn, AST definitely needed to be buffed. But the other 2 healers also required a follow up that didn't happen and WHM suffered the most with it to to how specific the job is. I didn't mentioned anything about SCH but dissipation never got addressed.

And then there's the actual role/function.
WHM is supposed to heal lots of damage in short amount of time with cure III, with 3.4 that isn't needed anymore due to overgearing and mobs hitting like wet noodles even on raids. WHM also has the highest dps potential of all 3 healers both in single target and aoe, but due to mp issues and being called to main heal everytime that "title" is completely thrown out the window.
So yea, i said this a year ago and i say it again, the hell does yoshida want to do with WHM?

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Originally Posted by mp-please

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The bigger problem, IMO, is that XIV's content design so far hasn't really allowed for any flexibility within the healing meta. You have three healers ATM, but only two raid spots for either of them. The game's content at the raid level is designed around requiring some kind of shielding or mitigative barriers to survive what would otherwise instantly wipe a full-health raid, so the content is physically IMPOSSIBLE without having a healer that does one of those things. To balance that, the devs made it so that shields don't stack, ensuring that a burst/reactionary healer has its place in the content design, but what this results in is that every healer will be burst or mitigative, and they'll all be judged in that vacuum. "How does a Noct AST stand up to a SCH?" "How will DNC compared to DiAST/WHM?" "Can GEO heal as effectively as SCH while still doing decent DPS?" These are the kinds of questions that people will be asking, and they're not questions present in other games ATM, because the content design is much better. In games with shield/barrier type healers, that concept IS their healing - they don't recover damage, they literally exist for the most part around preventing it (Discipline Priest in WoW). Burst healers might have SOME barrier or defensive type abilities, much like how shield healers have SOME method of recovery healing, but their kits don't overlap and thus, the developers don't feel the need to design content around requiring one or the other so that "everyone belongs".

This MIGHT be a self-correcting issue, where the wider spread of healing jobs we have makes up for the "burst or mitigative" niche that each one is shoved into, but I'd rather the devs work on fixing their restrictive content design and class homogenization over anything else. I'd love a HoT-based healer, and a channel healer, and a melee healer, but the game devs have absolutely got to drop that reliance on insta-gib raid/tank busters without healer mitigation and instead make SCH/Noct AST's playstyle an optional playstyle based on preference, not on necessity.

Just my 2 cents.

The way I see it in terms of overall healer balance. Anyone should be able to play whatever healer they want and not be a burden. Currently all healer comps are viable and that's how it always should be. Yes, there are optimal comps but optimal does not mean necessary and never should. In light of that, the current healer balance is fine, although I feel like they still need to fix some of ASTs cards (Spear/Arrow) and make certain abilities not be useless in Noct (Time Dilation).

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

The way I see it in terms of overall healer balance. Anyone should be able to play whatever healer they want and not be a burden. Currently all healer comps are viable and that's how it always should be. Yes, there are optimal comps but optimal does not mean necessary and never should.

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Yea I agree. Though to be fair we need another midas tier to actually test each composition, the creator is a tid too easy to consider any healer dead.

I like how in this game the healer is the hot topic/competitive discussion.

Usually in other mmo its always the dps (the salt, the cry, the hate, the kicked nominee) but last time i check the dps forum, everyone over there just chill and being firendly like gentleman lol.