[Spoilers] The general crackpot and head-canon thread

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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That would be freaking hilarious. We really need more closure on the 1.0 story lines. And as someone who started in Limsa on my 1.0 character, I'd love to see what happened with Travanchet after he disappeared. I'm also curious about what rank he would've been.

And also, what the hell was that freaky skeleton looking Ascian from back then? An improper fusion between two lesser Ascians or something?

And about the Neurolink thing...that scene has been stuck in the back of my mind since I first cleared T5.

I've considered that it's a botched fusion, but first I question why Lessers would need to initiate that fusion. Not just anyone is going to be able to stop an Ascian, even a singular Lesser Ascian, so why would they need to merge in the first place? The entire point of Ascian Prime was so that Lahabrea and Igeyorhm could overcome the limitations of their aether-flesh.

Unless fighting someone as strong as the WoL, they're not going to need something like that - so why try if it carries risk and limits their overall ability to interact with the Spoken, hindering their duty?

That being said, Ascian hierarchy is definitely going to be important going on, hence that whole bit on page 1-2 about the differences between Elidibus and the black-robed Overlords. We just don't know enough about it, with Nabriales' lines and SE's multiple translations of it furthering our confusion.

Maybe they're lesser asciens and the 1st mortal-to-ascien Lahabrea experimented with? Maybe it was necessary due to it still being an Astral era; hence they could not exists unabated while Hydaelyn was healthy?

Being of "this world" might allow Lahabrea and Elidibus to ascend people into Ascien-hood? As it stands, they're the only Asciens that have underlings.

The idea that Eli and Laha are somehow different (which we do know, via Nabriales' dialogue) and it's what allows them to take servants and not the others is also something I've toyed with. It also explains why it's Nabriales and Igeyorhm overlooking their assigned Primals where Lahabrea has his group of Lessers dealing with the Beast Tribes in the Ex primal quests.

But at the same time I feel like we can't make any solid conclusions. It's just 'here's a phenomenon, here's my logical thought pattern on why I think it happened. Evidence? What evidence?'

I'm hesitant to draw conclusions just because we haven't seen the other Overlords' Lessers. Just because we've not encountered them doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist.

But that's why it's perfect for a thread like this, really.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Leaving void-crazy Nabriales aside, Lahabrea's big expodump in the Praetorium seems to indicate that the planet can continue to exist just fine without Hydaelyn, which wouldn't be possible if she were, or was crucial to, the upkeep of the planet itself. It's also not a distinction he would have any reason to make if ending the planet itself was his objective.

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My pondering wasn't really about the her being crucial to the upkeep of the planet, but rather whether or not the existence of aether is tied to her existence. I think it's us mortals who are responsible for the upkeep of the planet, using or abusing aether as we do.

Still, cutscene #11 in the Unending Journey, right? The part where he calls her a "parasite that must be burned out if the planet is to recover"? He does believe the planet can continue just fine without Hydaelyn, but in the sense that they need Zodiark instead. Interestingly, he also talks about imbalance and that if "it is permitted to worsen, the very laws of existence - both aetheric and physical - will be warped beyond all recognition" and goes on to claim that Hydaelyn is the source of that imbalance (hence his belief that she needs to be replaced with his own god, and an early echo of what Hydaelyn tells us, that Zodiark was the cause of the imbalance and that she excised him).

That being said, I think that expodump just indicates that Lahabrea believes the planet can exist just fine without Hydaelyn, and since part of that belief is Zodiark replacing her (in fact he says Zodiark's return is necessary to excise her completely) I don't think what he's saying quite reaches the level of indicating that the planet's existence (aether included) is independent of either being.

The scene really only goes so far as to say he believes she needs to be replaced and leaves the question of whether either one is necessary wide open and unanswered.

Also possible that it's among the things Lahabrea is wrong about, according to Elidibus' comment, and Lahabrea's knowledge of what is and isn't necessary for the future of either the planet or the deities could be quite lacking.

Basically I'm not inclined to believe Lahabrea as a source of Word of God information, not at the present time anyway.

Not sure how crackpot this is, but let's see:

Each rejoining matches pretty accurately with the events of its associated number Final Fantasy entry. (Earthquake/Cloud of Darkness -assuming Cloud of Darkness would've caused it anyway if the earthquake hadn't happened- for the third; Meteor/Dalamud for the seventh; War of the Magi for the sixth). So the next umbral era should be caused by Time Kompression, or something like it. Alexander bends time. Eighth umbral era confirmed?

Bonus: We'll get a surprise fifteenth rejoining only if FFXV manages to come out before then.

To be fair, I'm not really well versed enough in the other calamities to know whether this makes any sense. Just seems convenient that those three examples line up fairly well.

Hopefully everything will eventually be explained!

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Also possible that it's among the things Lahabrea is wrong about, according to Elidibus' comment, and Lahabrea's knowledge of what is and isn't necessary for the future of either the planet or the deities could be quite lacking.

Basically I'm not inclined to believe Lahabrea as a source of Word of God information, not at the present time anyway.

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Well, sure, but if you wanna rule out Lahabrea entirely, there's nothing stopping the rest of us from throwing out everything Louisoix has ever said, too. Or are the Good Guys just naturally always right?



My strongest theory is still inferring from what Ramuh said about how light and darkness were as one before man. Moose-senpai has taken this to mean that mankind was born after or during the split, but I take it at face value: mankind split light and darkness.

We start with a planet and a Source. Mankind evolves on its own, not by the will of a creator, and once it reaches a certain level of self-awareness, it does what every good fledgling civilization ever has done: creates a god. This isn't really an issue until they come into contact with the Source. Rather than throwing their own creation myths aside, they take their encounter with this fount of aether as proof of their god's existence. And then they worship it, pouring in all their belief in a greater good for all humanity, and a creator that loves them and shields them from all the evils of the world.

Faith + Aether = Primal, and Hydaelyn is born from the Source. As a consequence, or perhaps as the result of worship from another sect, Zodiark is born at this time as well to represent the abstract "evils" Hydaelyn is opposed to. Two gods, one of light and one of darkness, created to believe they were the creators. Eventually, Hydaelyn splits the Source to banish Zodiark, and the rest is history.

For a story that, at it's core, involves a lot of killing the gods of unwashed tribals, this would be perfect. It would require our band of enlightened merry men to face the realization that they've only been serving a god of their own making as well, and tie the primals into the themes of our ongoing struggle, rather than just as our go-to setup for 8-man bosses.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Well, sure, but if you wanna rule out Lahabrea entirely, there's nothing stopping the rest of us from throwing out everything Louisoix has ever said, too. Or are the Good Guys just naturally always right?

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Not believing him as a source of "Word of God" level information is hardly throwing him out entirely, it's just recognizing that for the time being he's as fallible as any of the other in-game sources of information.

That being said, it's really only a side point to the rest of that post, which is talking about what the expodump mentions and how I don't think it serves as strong evidence for the idea that Hydaelyn isn't necessary to the existence of the planet, since it's really only Lahabrea talking about replacing her with Zodiark. That is its entire focus, and any additional conclusions as to how it relates to what is and isn't necessary for the existence of the planet are interpretations with little to no evidence for or against. Basically, your conclusion (which could still be absolutely right) is outside the scope of the limited information given in that expodump.

The inference from what Ramuh said...now that's an interesting one, and I can't think of anything outside of what Hydaelyn and some of the Ascians have said that serve to contradict it, and I don't consider those to be "Word of God" level either (despite Hydaelyn being a goddess - more a case of irony, since the phrase refers to authors and not in-universe deities usually - I don't consider her an omniscient one, so she's as capable as being wrong as any other character).

Reading your post Fenral, has given me a new crackpot theory.

We are going to get a keyblade, and be Keyblade Masters. We'll have a nice back2back with either Sora or Riku as well. It will be awesome.

What if the vision we saw in the beginning of the game truly did happen? Like what happened with the WoD in the flash back scene, we were alone? That whatever happened there our "original" bodies disintegrated ... leaving only our echo/soul which managed to posses the Adventurer in the cart?

Krile did say that every echo user's abilities can be different, what if ours can possess people ala Sahagin priest?

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Originally Posted by myahele

What if the vision we saw in the beginning of the game truly did happen?
Krile did say that every echo user's abilities can be different

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Ooh I have something crazy on that -
While our Echo has been shown to be 'catch all' and definitely not specialized (translation, past viewing, ability to enter soulspaces rather than just break their barriers, so on), we've also, apparently, used it to see the future on one occasion. The very first scene in ARR is Lahabrea.

But what if it's not the future we saw?

After all, we haven't seen the future since. That's not to say it was our past, mind you, it could be just that things are cyclic or it occurred in a different reflection.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

We start with a planet and a Source.

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Been thinking about this some more, mostly wondering how the Gerun Oracles might connect to the theory. About to go full crackpot mode here.

"In the beginning, before myth and legend, before Light and Dark, there was but the sea."

My first instinct was to think that this meant before the existence of the planet...but that may not be the case. Based on the continued reference to the sea - "there was but the sea" and "the sea sundered in fourteen" and "To the seas She cast Her children" and "to the seas He cast His doom" are all almost certainly references to where mankind is currently found. It being the "sea" could be a reference to how aether seems to flow through the world, so it could certainly still be talking about the planet as a whole, aether/Source included.

"In the beginning, before man and hist'ry."

Before man...before our current mortal forms, and before the start of recorded history. The Ascians speak of a time before...what if the ancestors to all mortal races came from the time before as well...

And what if they were sent into particular realm of existence, this particular shard out of the 14, by the being they created that unfortunately split, banished one side, and then tried to protect those that had created it because it was created to be a protecting mother of sorts...with some supporting the other side of the split and being caught up in the aftermath of the split, unable to attain what they had before but likewise unable to fully manifest in the new state of existence and ever seeking a return to what they had before?

So our ancestors were once enlightened beings of a different existence, who through their creation led to the first true Calamity...the one that created the world as we know it today.

To add some crackpot, from the themes I see in the game, I came to think that Light vs Dark is less about Good vs Evil, but more about selflessness vs selfishness. Dark themes constantly are about seeking power and freedom (freedom being a generally accepted good thing), while Light themes generally involve helping and protecting others, but also sacrifice for the "greater good".
This also means a "balance between light and dark" can manifest in multiple ways: High sacrifice to gain power and order, or helping others while remaining free.

This also can be applied to consider what Hydaelyn is about.. she is a manifestation of selflessness, and therefore is willing to sacrifice herself to protect her children, even if that would mean she loses the power to protect later (or even ceases to be), that falls in line with that Hydaelyn keeps getting weaker and weaker, and is now (and maybe for a longer time already) weak enough she has to pick specific people to protect that can in turn protect others, rather than intervening on a larger scale. Without a bit of selfishness, she won't gain any of the power she spent back unless someone directly gives it to her (like Minfillia did in 3.2, ironically by sacrifice).

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Originally Posted by Vulcwen

This also can be applied to consider what Hydaelyn is about.. she is a manifestation of selflessness, and therefore is willing to sacrifice herself to protect her children, even if that would mean she loses the power to protect later (or even ceases to be)

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And if she does turn out to be the cornerstone of our reality, that would be capital-B Bad. It's ultra-cheesy (this is Final Fantasy), but somehow I think this is ultimately going to be less about resigning ourselves to the cold reality that no amount of power can enable one person to save everyone, and finding some way instead to ensure that everyone has just enough power to save themselves.

As my last alt approaches the sick, sad ending to the Vault in the MSQ, I had a thought as certain characters ended up standing next to each other. I guess it belongs here because I'm makin' it a goofball headcanon until proven otherwise.

First, the facts:
Aymeric - Bastard by Thordan VII and an unknown elezen woman
Haurchefant - Bastard by Edmont and an unknown elezen woman

Also a fact, later in the MSQ, Edmont mentions that he sees much of Haurchefant in Aymeric, despite his actual son standing right there. What if that means they shared a mother? They don't really look alike, but no one looks like Aymeric. I doubt the realm could handle two elezen with a resting bedroom-eyes face. Rawr. Ahem. Anyway, based on the hereditary features missing from the known fathers, we could reasonably assume that this mysterious elezen woman had silvery hair and pale blue-ish eyes. Now who else does that sound like...

Isayle's parentage is completely unknown, but when she is standing near Haurchefant for that brief bit of the quest line, I thought they looked passably related. Which started this backwards train of thought and ended with the idea that Haurchefant, Aymeric and Isayle all share a mother. Plausible or way off base?

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps0tiatzbc.jpg

I wonder...

Sounds plausible to me (I don't think the ages contradict it, unless Ysale and/or Haurchefant are 32 as well).

Here's my way off base addition - the painting of the dark haired Elezen woman you see in the Void Ark quest line? That's her.

http://i.imgur.com/VMphoMi.png

I always thought that was Leofard's mother :O

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Sounds plausible to me (I don't think the ages contradict it, unless Ysale and/or Haurchefant are 32 as well).

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I thought there was some lore somewhere that pointed to Ysayle's age, but I can't find it.

Haurchefaunt is (was) 28, according to the third Tales from the Dragonsong War.

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Originally Posted by Draxis_Fallspear

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That actually makes a lot of sense.

4th Umbra Era would be some semi-alien force threatening the existence of the world\\'s inhabitants, likely with some sort of massive robot.

5th would have been a power mad sorcerer who sought to return the world to nothing. Maybe the ancient civilization of Mhach? Void Ark related?

As for my own stuff....why is no one talking about how Mid apparently can travel through space, and that he did so bearing seven eggs? Tbh, that seems a bit Lavos-like to me, only Mid ended up more of a symbiote with Eorzea instead of the parasite Lavos was.

But that implies that, somewhere out in space, there lies the broodmother of Mid\\\\'s children. Shinryu perhaps? Why did she not come with Mid when he left where ever he came from? Why did he leave? Why did he make a "covenant" with Hydaelyn? Mid seems less like a servant and more like an equal partner to Hydaelyn. That implies a good deal of power, but also an understanding that, in some ways, Hydaelyn is a good thing. Or at least better.

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Originally Posted by Quor

As for my own stuff....why is no one talking about how Mid apparently can travel through space, and that he did so bearing seven eggs? Tbh, that seems a bit Lavos-like to me, only Mid ended up more of a symbiote with Eorzea instead of the parasite Lavos was.

But that implies that, somewhere out in space, there lies the broodmother of Mid\\\\'s children. Shinryu perhaps?

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You're forgetting FF's own sapce-parasite broodmother: Jenova.

Don't dragons reproduce asexually? No broodmother necessary.

I mean, he's specifically the father, so even in a seahorse-mating scenario, the eggs would have had to come from a female or he'd technically be a mother. Not that I want to deny him his right to gender self-identification.

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Originally Posted by Quor

4th Umbra Era would be some semi-alien force threatening the existence of the world\\'s inhabitants, likely with some sort of massive robot.

5th would have been a power mad sorcerer who sought to return the world to nothing. Maybe the ancient civilization of Mhach? Void Ark related?

As for my own stuff....why is no one talking about how Mid apparently can travel through space, and that he did so bearing seven eggs? Tbh, that seems a bit Lavos-like to me, only Mid ended up more of a symbiote with Eorzea instead of the parasite Lavos was.


But that implies that, somewhere out in space, there lies the broodmother of Mid\\\\'s children. Shinryu perhaps? Why did she not come with Mid when he left where ever he came from? Why did he leave? Why did he make a "covenant" with Hydaelyn? Mid seems less like a servant and more like an equal partner to Hydaelyn. That implies a good deal of power, but also an understanding that, in some ways, Hydaelyn is a good thing. Or at least better.

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wait? im confuse what are you talking about the umbral calamities.

4th umbral we know exacly what happened
5th? are you talking about the 5th calimity or the 6th? Let you remember that the 5th was an ice age, and there were no mages beacause magic wasnt re-discovered yet. Was during the 5th umbral time that was discoved on desesperate ways to survive the cold weathers.

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Originally Posted by Rocl

Don't dragons reproduce asexually? No broodmother necessary.

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Considering we have multiple cases where we see dragons having mating partners Id say no.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Considering we have multiple cases where we see dragons having mating partners Id say no.

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From a Dengeki interview about Sohm Al lovingly translated by one Anonymous J. Moose:

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We know that Tioman is Nidhogg's consort, but what is she other than a dungeon boss? What kind of background information exists for her?

We should start with the fact that dragons don't have a traditional concept of gender. They can reproduce alone, aesexually. And after a dragon is born, over the course of a long life, their form changes radically.

For creatures such as these, a "mate" doesn't mean "a partner for reproduction" like it does for other organisms. It's more of a deep and spiritual bond. Even in the bond between the dragon Hraesvelgr and the human Shiva, the spiritual connection is what is important.

In the same vein, even though Tioman is presented as a "female dragon" that is Nidhogg's "consprt," this means that she is the most important being in his life, spiritually. It's still slightly different from a human concept like "marriage." These terms will probably be explored in the game, as well, as relations between man and dragon improve.

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Emphasis mine, obviously "can" may not mean "always" but I'm not sold on the necessity of a breeding pair of dragons

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Originally Posted by Rocl

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I must of entirely missed that interview. The Shiva thing was something I suspected.

Still, this confirms to me that dragons are really, really weird.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I must of entirely missed that interview. The Shiva thing was something I suspected.

Still, this confirms to me that dragons are really, really weird.

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They're not weird, they're just alien. The asexual reproduction would be pretty useful for a naturally spacefaring species that spends long periods of time traveling between the stars.

The fact that they remember the past as vividly as the present would help them keep their sanity while traveling alone through space. They don't even need to depend on eating, since they could hibernate for thousands of years, while their eyes naturally gather energy to sustain themselves; their diversity of forms and chronic mutations would also allow them to adapt to any planetary environment. They're the ideal spacefaring species.

I wouldn't be surprised if dragons had already colonized other worlds in the galaxy of FFXIV; the dragons and the Ascians, if not the Garleans talk of Hydraeyn as 'this star,' which implies knowledge that the stars in the heavens are worlds as well.

Do we actually know that they're aliens, though? I feel like so much of what we've heard in their origins is ambiguous in how literal it's meant to be interpreted, especially considering how flowery the English localization likes to be.

Well we don't know if they literally travel through space (I think). It's quite possible they travelled through other means such as through the Void from another world.

More to the point I'm not just talking about their breeding habits. Asexual reproduction is one thing but they can literally turn other creatures into dragon hybrids. The only other creature I can think of in FF14 that can do that is Voidsent. Further we have a Padjal compare draconic essense in spiritual presence to the Elementals, purely spiritual beings.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Well we don't know if they literally travel through space (I think). It's quite possible they travelled through other means such as through the Void from another world.

More to the point I'm not just talking about their breeding habits. Asexual reproduction is one thing but they can literally turn other creatures into dragon hybrids. The only other creature I can think of in FF14 that can do that is Voidsent. Further we have a Padjal compare draconic essense in spiritual presence to the Elementals, purely spiritual beings.

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I may be wrong, it's early, but wasn't Tioman Nidhoggs broodmother and partner?


Also, does this mean Dragons are an invasive species to the planet, or were their other dragons before Middy there?

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

I may be wrong, it's early, but wasn't Tioman Nidhoggs broodmother and partner?


Also, does this mean Dragons are an invasive species to the planet, or were their other dragons before Middy there?

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The implication I got from Middy is that Dragons aren't native but Midgardsormr cut a deal with Hydaelyn for the dragons to live on the planet. Dragons seem very closely linked to Aether so I suspect that the deal was Hydaelyn nurtures Midgardsormr's children and in return Midgardsormr stands guard over the physical location of the Source.

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

Do we actually know that they're aliens, though? I feel like so much of what we've heard in their origins is ambiguous in how literal it's meant to be interpreted, especially considering how flowery the English localization likes to be.

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I just want to clarify that it isn't only the English localization here. Without exception they all refer to "the beginning of time," "a time before time," and "the beginning of everything" and mention Midgardsormr travelling to the 'this planet' (or star, which is a rather archaic usage of the word that means the same thing)
As for this being evidence of them being extraterrestrials, I am highly suspect.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

I may be wrong, it's early, but wasn't Tioman Nidhoggs broodmother and partner?

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Zero evidence to support Tioman being Nidhogg's mother. Potential for a "daughterwife" though, imo. Dragons are weird and I'm not going to judge their weird relations.

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Also, does this mean Dragons are an invasive species to the planet, or were their other dragons before Middy there?

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It seems to me that the dragons, at the very least, share a space with both Voidsent and Elementals in the Raimdelle Codex. Beings so intrinsic and unique to our understanding of life on Hydaelyn it's difficult to place them in the Bloodborn categories. I'm curious to see if scalekin end up actually being related to dragons or not.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Well we don't know if they literally travel through space (I think). It's quite possible they travelled through other means such as through the Void from another world.

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You know who could clarify this and answer it with one hundred percent accuracy? Midgardsormr. Do you know who conveniently refuses to manifest himself in front of Hraesvelgr, Nidhogg, and leaves us high and dry after the Singularity Reactor? Midgardsormr. What the hell, man. Midgardsormr needs to come back and give me the infodump I've earned after nearly six years of watching him fall at the Battle of Silvertear Skies!

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Originally Posted by Rocl

Zero evidence to support Tioman being Nidhogg's mother. Potential for a "daughterwife" though, imo. Dragons are weird and I'm not going to judge their weird relations.

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I meant, the mother of his children, not his mother.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

I meant, the mother of his children, not his mother.

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Er that makes substantially more sense. Whoops.