Fighting spam is an important issue, and isn't just a problem MMO players are faced with. However, when implementing measures against spam, you always have to weigh how much those measures actually hinder spammers versus how much they impact legitimate users. If your measure impacts legitimate users more than it does spammers, it's very likely a very bad idea - and region locking servers would be such a case.
There's way simpler methods SE could implement to fight RMT spam, and which would not or only very slightly affect legitimate players. One, for example, would be to give players better control over who they want to be able to receive /tells from (currently, we only have the "nuclear option" - disable all tells with /busy). If you could select whether you want to be able to receive only tells from Friends, your FC, people in your party, the Novice Network, and/or from people in Linkshells you are in (ie, a whitelist approach), this would already go a long way to basically remove RMT /tells without impacting legitimate players in a noticeable way.
As a side note, I don't know how bad it is on other servers, but Cerberus has, at least in my experience, barely any RMT spam currently. It used to be worse, but nowadays, I get an average of one or two RMT tells a week, and usually at like 4 in the morning when the server is pretty deserted anyway. The only other common RMT spam I see is the lone bot who hangs out in front of the MB in Limsa and drops a line in /say every few minutes, which I barely notice anymore.
Region Locking servers to stop RMT?
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03-20-2016, 02:15 PM_slowpoke_
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03-21-2016, 03:47 AMFelisOr to BalmungQuote:
Originally Posted by Hayward
Ragnarok is also nice. Only 1 RMT spam each week -
03-21-2016, 04:00 AMKosmos992k
Region locking can be defeated by using proxies and VPNs.
SE would have to invest in technology and people to enforce region locking like that. Having tried to prevent spam on forums as a forum admin and mod, I can tell you, it's not as simple as blocking Chinese and russian domains or IP ranges. Just regular trolls are apt to use proxies and/or VPNs tpo mask their true IP, so any organization already treading the edge of the rules will have no qualms about circumventing regional lockout.
The way to defeat RMT is to make it so undeesireable that no one buys from them. One way to do this would be tpo be a little more aggressive with player bans, and possibly even create a jail, with the locaktion 'jail' where player characters who's account has been suspended could reside for the duration of their ban. any search for the player yields the result that they are in jail. Who wants that? Already in most countries local newspapers can publish the names of offenders found guilty of traffic offenses, mis-demeanors and felonies. I don't see why we could not do this in-game. It would not take long for the message to get around that people will know who you are when you engage in RMT. -
03-21-2016, 04:29 AMNektulos-Tuor
Without a decent way to make money and gil without throwing your face at a wall there will always be easier alternatives.
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03-21-2016, 06:05 AMRoth_Trailfinder
You want to get rid of Gil selling spam?
Then get SE to produce an in-game item that gives you 30 days of paid game time. Make this item tradable (and thus sell-able), but also make it only initially available through the Mogstation. IE - you want Gil, buy one of these and sell it on the board. Someone prefers to spend Gil instead of cash on their subscription? That person buys your subscription item and uses it.
Once that is done, market forces (supply and demand for this item) will force the Gil sellers out of FF14 somewhere else. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen. -
03-21-2016, 07:19 AMBladesingerThis, on so many levels is the soul cause of why the G spammers're out of business in WoW and no longer fill the chats with their incessant badgering - Yoshi mentioned a while back that he loves the idea but would like some time to monitor WoW to see how successful it is before implemeting here..Quote:
Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder
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03-21-2016, 07:33 AMColorfulIt's been keeping WoW's subscribers numbers afloat during their drought of content and it's kept EVE alive for so long, so it has definitely been successful. The last time it was suggested it got a negative response by the English community though, so who knows? Maybe I'd actually level my crafters if it meant I could pay my subscription that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesinger
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03-21-2016, 07:50 AMBladesingerAmen - hopefully, they're close to something. At the very least, implement an Anon status so we can't be queried in a zone by zone search and harassed in whispers..=\Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
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03-21-2016, 07:53 AMNektulos-Tuor
This can all be solved by doing a few things:
- Remove the current word filter that makes your emotes some times vanish into the abyss and hurts roleplayers and does nothing to stop RMT.
- Add the option for people to make custom word filters. -
03-21-2016, 08:06 AMAshkendorThe first option doesn't solve anything to do with RMT. This thread isn't about RP'ers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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03-21-2016, 09:03 AMDyvidAnd how is this going to stop RMT? Just turn off your /tell and live life much happier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward
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03-21-2016, 09:07 AMHaywardYou might have something here. If Yoshi is thinking of going in this direction, I'd support it with no reservation. The question then lies with people who are looking to sell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder
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03-21-2016, 11:59 AMJanhyua
Did a check on the amount of money we are dealing with
And the numbers are shocking
The number of RMT been ban or replaced about 4000+ weekly that's like 20 usd each for each ban they make
They have to buy a new game to come back weekly thats 80,000 usd on average consider 4 weeks a month that's like 320,000 usd
Implementing in-game time sub and allowing it on the market board
What se fear is that the number are not enough to be even worth the implementation
Noting will change even if it implemented because RMT are expert in marketing and will alway undercut the server price acordly
They won't be sendin as much tell to avoid even more losses but they are still there for sure -
03-21-2016, 12:10 PMMomomiMomiI supported this last time this was brought up. I still support it now. Please, give us this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder
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03-21-2016, 12:17 PMJanhyua
What se actually fears is that they break the market board what happen when some one used all their money to buy shit tons of Gil and completely destroy the market board and that's not the worst part
Since this will be legit and se can't ban him for destroying the market board -
03-21-2016, 12:22 PMLaraul
Chinese don't typically have UK mailing addresses...
http://i.imgur.com/j6CVMQN.png -
03-21-2016, 12:41 PMTinyMonsterI support this 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder
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03-21-2016, 12:42 PMMilesSaintboroguhDon't most RMT operate on stolen accounts anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Janhyua
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03-21-2016, 12:56 PMJanhyuaNot all of them if did they probably all banned by now unless they hack the server for more account to steal which is impossible the only way for RMT to get a account for free is by using people who buy power levelling which not many people doQuote:
Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh
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03-21-2016, 12:59 PMMilesSaintboroguh
There's also RMT that yank accounts via keylogging when the victim unwittingly uses the URL provided.
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03-21-2016, 01:03 PMJanhyuaHmm haven gotten any such URL from my email or Ingame so far on tonberry over the course of 2 years so I hardly doubt itQuote:
Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh
In fact haven gotten any tells since 2.2 -
03-21-2016, 01:10 PMLaraul
The simplest and quickest solution right now is too make it easier to block and report SPAM RMT messages. A 'Report and Block User' subcommand menu item to quickly add a person to a temporary blacklist as well as report the user would go a long way in making these SPAM tells a lot easier to deal with. Right now, reporting users for RMT spam is cumbersome, and takes to much time to actually bother with doing.
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03-21-2016, 01:23 PMLaraulDo you have anyway of backing this up this claim with a credible source? Or are you just trying to spread fear that clicking a URL will infect your computer?Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh
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03-21-2016, 01:42 PMKhalitharOn paper? No. However, for what it's worth, there was an old issue of keyloggers and other malicious URL's posted on the wow forums. Players there reported similar keyloggers when the RMT would send emails to players claiming they were blizzard entertainment, players that clicked the links in those URL's would often end up getting a keylogger even if they didn't enter their account information. There have also been reports in other games that a lot of goldfarming is done on hijacked accounts, many of which were from those malicious URL's and websites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraul
What he's saying is absolutely true and has happened in other games. Besides it's good advice even if it seems like common sense, never ever go to any URL that those RMT send you. Additionally, while false emails from SE seem to not be a thing here, always pay attention to what you click. -
03-21-2016, 03:14 PMColorfulThe URL is usually a direct download to an .exe file masked as an image extension (or anything else really), it's a very common method to steal accounts, especially on Steam. If you have an up to date Windows Defender, say Windows 10 where it forces you keep your definitions up to date it will take care of the problem before you know what hit you, but a surprisingly amount of people either don't update on older Windows because "It's annoying", find a way to disable automatic updates on Win10 because again, "it's annoying". Sometimes they disable Windows Defender without using a viable alternative, because it interferes with an application they use and they won't bother to learn to use the whitelist. The majority of hijacked accounts are due to the carelessness of the players, and that isn't something SE can fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraul
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03-21-2016, 03:21 PMKosmos992kThe numbers are actually really minor when you math it out, the idea that revenue from RMT accounts is somehow significant is laughable. Self serving iDeas about in-game items that provide sub time are not a solution. People buy gil to buy in-game items, not subscription time. Making it possible for players to pay their subscription without using real money helps nothing, and if anything, it provides RMT with a lifeline that costs them nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janhyua
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03-21-2016, 03:43 PMMykll
I don't agree with region blocking, but, to be fair, to everyone that is saying that the bots can fake IPs with VPN and such, En Masse also has this to say:
http://support.enmasse.com/tera/will...ased-on-region
So enough bots using the same VPN and such will probably end up getting that VPN blocked for everyone.Quote:
What About Proxies?
Services that promise to improve your ping and decrease lag may sound promising, but they are frequently used by hackers and criminals who want to remain anonymous. Although we do not block them by default, a proxy or server host will be blocked if it becomes a popular tool for criminal behavior.
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03-21-2016, 03:53 PMKhalitharThere's that to, so many folks posting "oh they'll just get around it" when the fact is that EME's system (while not perfect) has kept TERA practically RMT free since it came out so long ago, even before it went free to play and started selling sub time, the game still manages to keep nearly every single one of them out. As I said prior, sure you can't keep the RMT out but their presence in TERA has always been near non-existent because of EME's region block/VPN blocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykll
You can honestly play for weeks or months even on the low pop and never see an RMT. I never personally said I'm for the region block, but TERA has proven that it can work and be ridiculously effective as well. -
03-21-2016, 04:16 PMIlitsaignorant people with "great" ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrhn
No. Region locking NEVER helps anything. It's just all around bad and you're looking to split friends for no reason. Yes, the RMT situation sucks, but they need to be addressed directly (somehow, I don't claim to have any ideas here), rather than band-aid fixes being applied. -
03-21-2016, 04:31 PMZariNo no you see that wasn't what they meant with the idea. It isnt just an in-game item you can buy for gil. You HAVE to buy it from other players but they get the sub item that they are selling to you from the mogstationQuote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
Essentially, they are paying money to sell something in game for gil while the person who provides said gil gets the sub. It is a solution because if players would legally be able to "buy" gil then RMT would have no market -
03-22-2016, 08:18 PMaesteval
That sounds like an incredibly terrible idea that will have no positive result and do harm.
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03-22-2016, 10:19 PMUltear_Milkovich
Israeli player reporting in;
With that system im not sure i would be able to play anymore;
Also im sure that (unlike me) jvdds jffffgv would be able to bypass it within 24h with some VPN.
Bad idea, sorry :) -
03-23-2016, 02:21 AMKosmos992kYou know, I just have got to say something to this. I just don't understand anyone who says there is no decent way to make money. There are gil fountains in the game, you just need to make use of them. I would go so far as to say that if you can't make enough gil, you're neither patient, nor trying very hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
I don't raid, and I don't even have a level 50 crafter yet, I have a level 50 Botanist and my miner is finally closing in on 50. I most definitely do not "throw my face at a wall" to make gil though. But, I do sell materials, and lower level intermediate crafts, I sell drops from levelling dungeons, and have reasonably good fortune with my two retainers above level 50 bringing home nice things. I've been fortunate enough that either myself or my wife has obtained seasonal or event items that later on became sell able on the MB. I run my beast tribes, FATEs, roulette and the occasional levequest. I pay attention to and use my Challenge log to gain the most benefit from my play time whether that be gil or MGP. I'm absolutely not a hardcore player, though I may have a lot of hours in the game.
In the end though, Kos has a house, nice furnishings, nice glamours, and everything she could possibly want for her main jobs. Guess what though, there's been no throwing my face at a wall to get there, just long term play and patience. As far as the MB is concerned when it comes to selling intermediate crafts and materials, I'll just say that HQ is your friend.
OK, I understand that, thank you. However, that is still a self serving idea and honestly, given the ability of gil sellers to make gil in the game through botting, They'll be among the most frequent purchasers of game time resulting in free subscription time for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zari
What I mean by self serving is that in my opinion and experience, when this subject comes up for discussion, the most vocal proponents of sub items that can be purchased in-game are those who are also boasting of how it would allow them to finance their subscription entirely in game, ultimately leaving other players to foot the bill for their subscription and those of the folks buying the sub items. In essence this bolts on a free to play model for players that wish to exploit it because for those who make gil and purchase sub items, their play time is actually free. Yes, I know they must spend some time acquiring the gil with which to buy the sub items, that that is accomplished by...playing the game. Hence they are playing the game without spending hard cash which means it's free to them. -
03-23-2016, 03:57 AMConradusAnd of course, Chinese gold sellers never lie, either. Though they do get points for the UK phone number as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraul
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03-23-2016, 04:16 AMRoth_TrailfinderWhich means that instead of getting cash for their Gil, they get game time. SE gets the cash for the sub item, and the person that bought the sub item gets the Gil. I'm not sure where the Gil-sellers are deriving a profit from that. Can you enlighten us?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
That whole "work in game to pay someone else for sub time, rendering the game free" is the main reason I don't see SE going along with the idea, honestly. Even though SE is still getting its money (because they are the only originator for the items), and the only difference is the identity and time of the actual payment for that game time. Actually, the presence of people willing to put forth the effort to make enough Gil to buy the things, and use the things, is what makes it work. Eventually the prices stabilize at a point that the Gil-sellers cannot compete (remember, they are in it for cash, not for game time) and they disappear. Even if the Gil from selling the item is somewhat less than the amount of Gil that one would get with an equivalent amount of money going to a Gil seller, people will tend towards the Mogstation to buy the sub item rather than buy Gil from the sellers because of the inherent safety involved - they will feel they can trust SE, and all the horror stories that abound on the web show that you can't trust the Gil sellers.Quote:
What I mean by self serving is that in my opinion and experience, when this subject comes up for discussion, the most vocal proponents of sub items that can be purchased in-game are those who are also boasting of how it would allow them to finance their subscription entirely in game, ultimately leaving other players to foot the bill for their subscription and those of the folks buying the sub items. In essence this bolts on a free to play model for players that wish to exploit it because for those who make gil and purchase sub items, their play time is actually free. Yes, I know they must spend some time acquiring the gil with which to buy the sub items, that that is accomplished by...playing the game. Hence they are playing the game without spending hard cash which means it's free to them.
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03-23-2016, 05:39 AMCelestePinke
That would ruin the game, my in game husband is in Australia and I'm in the US. So you are saying to heck with him even though I have played with him for over a year. SMH.