Insane Theory: Are YOU a Primal?

I certainly hope not!

Being sort of a god wouldn't be that bad, but I feel so mistreated during the entire story that I have a hard time imagining I am THAT important.

I had a similar theory a long time ago.

the wod and wol are the same being just split like yin and yang so yep primals are us.

We are not primals. If you listen to the story that would make no sense whatsoever when people around you have ways of detecting aether. The only thing I can say is you are on your way to god level of strength but not a primal. This topic has been spoken about so much and there are things in place where that won't be possible.

We are beast tribes

http://oi65.tinypic.com/dy7av.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dgsoil

Your character may have come out of the aether, but I come from the Coeurl tribe. [...]

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Did you :3 or are you just a manifestation/shadow of someone who did? (No, I'm not really challenging your opinion of who your character is, just offering some food for thought ^^)

Also: Hi, fellow tribe member! o/

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Originally Posted by Nestama

We're pretty much Hydaelyn's Ascians (which also have the Echo).

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Don't think that's too far off, no ^^ And... pretty much goes hand in hand with the whole "'tempered' by Hydaelyn" business. Even if they wouldn't admit it, and whatever the term would be, I'm fairly confident the Ascians are 'tempered' by Zodiark. Hence the whole fanaticism, even if they don't all express it the same way.

After all, in 3.1, it's mentioned that all 'warriors of light' have a crystal in them (IIRC), the same as the Ascians have the dark crystal in them, same as that one we found when we banished our first Ascian back at level 15 or so.

Actually... speaking of which, when an Ascian dies, s/he goes to that place in between life and death, then comes back and manifests a new body (or possesses someone else's -- not sure if it's always possession, or if it's that both are possible). So... basically what a Primal does. Except we Ascians don't need tons of crystals for it; they have their Zodiark crystal instead. 0=)

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

No. The WoL is not a primal. Primals literally drain the land of aether simply by manifesting in a physical form.

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Hm... How did that work with Bahamut, who spent quite some time being manifested? And the Warring Triad, who I'm assuming are in a similar state of imprisonment rather than non-existence. (No, I'm not asking to be contrary, I'm honestly curious.)
Also, would the aether currents move differently if our primary (pun not intended) draw of aether was from within, via the crystal within us? Could that be different enough that we'd escape notice? Hypothetically, I mean.

On a random note, I wonder if the Allagans examined/experimented on 'warriors of light/darkness' when they built the Ultima Weapon. You know, like how we gained those hexagram crystals with each primal we defeated, Ultima also absorbed power from defeated primals. Manifesting said power quite a bit differently, but hey... can't expect too much from warriors of light, eh?

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Originally Posted by Remus

We are not primals. If you listen to the story that would make no sense whatsoever when people around you have ways of detecting aether. The only thing I can say is you are on your way to god level of strength but not a primal. This topic has been spoken about so much and there are things in place where that won't be possible.

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Maybe they view us as a nessacary evil at the moment. (I know, I don't believe it, just sayin.)

They don't seem to have too much of an issue with sending us to almost certian death time and time again.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Actually... speaking of which, when an Ascian dies, s/he goes to that place in between life and death, then comes back and manifests a new body (or possesses someone else's -- not sure if it's always possession, or if it's that both are possible).

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The exact rules are a bit foggy.

Nabriales clearly reformed his body, poof! Right out of mid-aether. I do not believe he had a host in the first place. Moenbryda seemed to be capable of seeing his reformed body, too. I believe this is the form they choose to take, with an added tint of the whole "appearance based upon expectations" bit, which explains the inconsistency in Igeyorhm's form. We have Lahabrea's PoV at the end of 2.0, where she speaks and we're shown with her hood down. She is clearly a Midlander female with her less broad chest and breasts. But then she is also hostless (clearly, she had to be to make Ascian Prime) at the end of 3.0 and she appears male; your expectations of male Ascians are influencing your perception of the female. So basically, she prefers a female form, but your experience tells you to expect a male, because Laha/Nabri/Eli are all males, and therefore see her as male.
Bonus Edit: Igeyorhm comparison demonstrating the model differences: http://i.imgur.com/keZ4maA.jpg

Otherwise, for hosts, the general trend is: for those "without the Gift or knowledge" (as Elidibus puts it), Ascians need a host for mortal interaction. If you have the Echo or have the knowledge of Ascians, like the Scions, they should be able to see them just fine. However, I believe this rule might be bent; if the Ascian does not wish to be seen by the non-Gifted/knowledgeable mortals, they won't. If they do wish to by seen, they can be, and may initiate interaction this way. You might consider XII's Venat as a comparison, as the Ascians are clearly very similar to the Occuria.

Ascians remind me a lot of the Mazoku from Slayers. Their only real stated goal is to return the universe to its original nothingness, by rendering chaos from order and returning it to the Lord of Nightmares. (Ironically, the Lord of Nightmares used a human as an avatar and told them to cut that shit out.)

I don't think the WoL is a primal - the fact that we all have the lore tools needed to build a backstory for our character means we're real, flesh and blood. We're one of Hydalaen's chosen, of which there were many in both 1.0 and now 2.0. (Man, my poor 1.0 path companion. He was a jerk and he didn't want to have the Echo. He probably died during the Calamity. Poor guy.) Ysayle was a real Elezen, too.

My theory on our characters is that WE summoned THEM into the world of Eorzea. As stated in on the 18th floor, avatars from this world can cross over into Eorzea via various means. To a person in Eorzea, the humans on Earth would have nearly god like powers as somebody who can create an avatar, replay events in time over and over again until we get the desired results, immortal as we cant really die (we always come back), etc.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Actually... speaking of which, when an Ascian dies, s/he goes to that place in between life and death, then comes back and manifests a new body (or possesses someone else's -- not sure if it's always possession, or if it's that both are possible). So... basically what a Primal does. Except we Ascians don't need tons of crystals for it; they have their Zodiark crystal instead. 0=)

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Wasn't it explained (2.3?) that Primals go back to the Lifestream when defeated or something? only to return when called upon.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

My theory on our characters is that WE summoned THEM into the world of Eorzea. As stated in on the 18th floor, avatars from this world can cross over into Eorzea via various means. To a person in Eorzea, the humans on Earth would have nearly god like powers as somebody who can create an avatar, replay events in time over and over again until we get the desired results, immortal as we cant really die (we always come back), etc.

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I like this theory.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

I know, I know, don't think about it to deeply. But I can't help but wonder then, what is accepting a raise via you're home Aetheryte? It is obviously a step different from "Hey, this raise spell is basically me waking you up from a K.O. Never mind those angel wings from Ascend!"

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That actually has an explanation, provided via the Lore Lowdown segment of a recent Duty Commenced live stream. Basically, when you hit that point of unconsciousness your body essentially casts return out of a sort of subconscious reflex as a means of self preservation. You return to your home Aetheryte because, so long as it is your home Aetheryte, it's the one you're most closely attuned to and so your body finds it easier to get to than any other.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

My theory on our characters is that WE summoned THEM into the world of Eorzea. As stated in on the 18th floor, avatars from this world can cross over into Eorzea via various means. To a person in Eorzea, the humans on Earth would have nearly god like powers as somebody who can create an avatar, replay events in time over and over again until we get the desired results, immortal as we cant really die (we always come back), etc.

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Eeeh. All I'm reading from this is that you played Ar noSurge recently, because you basically just spelled out its entire plot.

(I believe Ascians controlling a host is similar to that game's Interdimend, though; once the host realizes something is wrong, it's too late to do anything about it. The only way you're getting them out is via external influence or destroying the body entirely unless they get bored and feel like relinquishing it. You even have a scene essentially beating the host's mind into submission).

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Originally Posted by Berethos

That actually has an explanation, provided via the Lore Lowdown segment of a recent Duty Commenced live stream. Basically, when you hit that point of unconsciousness your body essentially casts return out of a sort of subconscious reflex as a means of self preservation. You return to your home Aetheryte because, so long as it is your home Aetheryte, it's the one you're most closely attuned to and so your body finds it easier to get to than any other.

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Oh nice. Thanks for that.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Well, even that is extremely ambiguous, especially as Derplander and his friends have long been used as player stand-ins during trailers, dating waaay back to before even 1.0 was released...

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That's a fair point. I think that Derplander and crew were originally intended to be stand-ins for player characters but it's possible that they've been reinterpreted to be canon characters instead of stand-ins. The reason I say that is because of the echo wherein the Warrior of Light sees into the past of the Warrior of Darkness during their first encounter. In the past the WoD and crew appear exactly as they appear in the trailers. They have the exact same color palette from the trailers and they're attempting to kill an Ascian. So it appears to me that they are the characters from the trailer who used to be fighting against the Ascians before being changed somehow or convinced to work for them.

Whatever we are, we existed long before the moon began to descend -- we were around when Cid took off in his first airship years ago. Heck, we even gave him his first set of goggles ...

Primals temper their victims, er, worshipers ... we inspire admiration.

Primals demand more and more from their subjects ... we provide comfort to the dying, medicine to the ill, compassion to those less fortunate than ourselves, aid to the weary -- I suspect that from the viewpoint of the many western religious traditions, we are more akin to angels than to gods.

Then again, my favorite Martian spoke thus: "Thou art God".

Yea the primal of fluff :3

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Whatever we are, we existed long before the moon began to descend -- we were around when Cid took off in his first airship years ago. Heck, we even gave him his first set of goggles ...

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I've wondered about that comment he made before, and figured I must have missed something. Does anyone have any clarification on it? Is it a 1.0 referance?

It was purely metaphorical - as someone mentioned our Echo effectively removed his amnesia and thus it was symbolized by us appearing in an Echo scene of Cid when he fled from Garlemald, using the goggles as a metaphor for 'giving his memory back' so to speak. FF games are full of symbolism and metaphor and thus you can't always take everything you see and read in them at face value - you actually have to think about it and 'read between the lines' to see what they're really meaning.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

It was purely metaphorical - as someone mentioned our Echo effectively removed his amnesia and thus it was symbolized by us appearing in an Echo scene of Cid when he fled from Garlemald, using the goggles as a metaphor for 'giving his memory back' so to speak. FF games are full of symbolism and metaphor and thus you can't always take everything you see and read in them at face value - you actually have to think about it and 'read between the lines' to see what they're really meaning.

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While the thought did cross my mind, (it's not really that deep.of a metaphor.) Or that we may have just filled in for jane/john doe, there is also a great amount of lore and backstory in the game. The things people like Moose know, and that have actually be created in the first place blow me away sometime. So I always assume that while something could be purely symbolic, there could also be a reason or story behind it. It's one of the things I feel makes the game great.

Tbh, the only reason I hadn't brought that comment of his up before is because I was more interested in his "Keeper of th Seventh Gate" comment.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Hm... How did that work with Bahamut, who spent quite some time being manifested? And the Warring Triad, who I'm assuming are in a similar state of imprisonment rather than non-existence. (No, I'm not asking to be contrary, I'm honestly curious.)

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I didn't see this answered yet, but the Allagans found a way to force Primals to stay formed but bound. I don't remember all the details (nor where I ran into them. I'm thinking Coils), but they made an artificial means of keeping the Primals fed with aether and the required 'prayer', then turned around and used them for power. I Imagine Ifrit made sure everyone's house was warm.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

I didn't see this answered yet, but the Allagans found a way to force Primals to stay formed but bound. I don't remember all the details (nor where I ran into them. I'm thinking Coils), but they made an artificial means of keeping the Primals fed with aether and the required 'prayer', then turned around and used them for power. I Imagine Ifrit made sure everyone's house was warm.

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Just used Aether Generators to feed them enough to keep them summoned while syphoning off most of their stored power. Kinda like FF7's Shinra Corp sucked power from Planet Gaia.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Just used Aether Generators to feed them enough to keep them summoned while syphoning off most of their stored power. Kinda like FF7's Shinra Corp sucked power from Planet Gaia.

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Thank you. I couldn't recall the exact wording used, so my memory of it was a tad fuzzy.

I still like the idea of Ifrit forced to heat people's houses in the winter.

Did they ever try to summon multiple of the same primal at the same time? It would seem possible based off what we know. If you have a method of using a primal for energy, and can "force" a summon, could they not just summon mulitple of an easy to contain one?

Not a clue if the WoL is a primal, but the one thing that stuck with me was always the final quote after the Thordan fight:

"What are you?" - Yup. Exactly! You had a thousand years of prayers, almost unlimited power, ate Ascians for breakfast, the coolest moves ever.

And somehow I still defeated you? SE already said that Thordan Ex was supposed to be the final battle of HW, then it got toned down for obvious reasons, but even then.
Its no secret that we're almost a godlike being at the moment and I wouldnt really wonder if someday we might turn evil or get some kind of choice?
Gaius mentioned it very often in the 2.0 Finale, he even asks you why you are actually fighting for them, you can give an answer but I found none of them really appealing.

Most of the time the City States are only caring for their own stuff, Ishgard is still a mess and even if they are ur cool bros at the moment, who knows what they might hold? And dont forget the final most ambiguous piece ever in the whole Story - Midgardsormr.

I dont see him as my enemy, its clear that he's there to help and cares somehow. But I am still not that fond of the fact that he sealed my powers once, is still very secretive about basicially everything, and while I dont think he's trying to put a knife into my back - I really wonder about his true agenda, still not buying the "ALL FOR PEACE" stuff.

Just my 2 cents. ;3

My theory hydalan and zoidark was once one and the wod and wol are one and its a battle for what takes control hydalan or zoidark depending on what primal obsorbs the other meaning wol and wod are primals or rather a ancient elder primal split in too cause of whatever happened to hydalan and zoidark in the past.

So wol physical manifestation of hydylan and wod physical manifestation of zoidiark.

Honestly we don't even know the nature of our echo at this time. We've seen in various other characters that while the echo grants all users the ability to see past events, it also presents itself very differently in what other boons it grants a user. The fishback priest presented with an ability to force his soul inside others as soon as his previous body died, and Krile's gift is universal understanding of all sapient beings as she put it more or less in her own words at Matoya's cave.

It's also worth noting in that same cutscene with Krile, she mentions that champions of Hydaelyn on the cusp of an Umbral age are given a single crystal to augment them. Ysayle as an example had one and used it to manifest herself as a primal she mistakenly thought to be the actual Shiva. The WoL has a few more than that at this time.

We are not primals, we are tempered by Hydaelin! Brainwashing us and using us to be her ultimate soldier.

(Become a lalafell know, we got more resistance to that because master race)

or just cook and eat lalas to become strong :P

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ast-a-Lalafell

some tasty recipes in that thread :P uhh now im hungry.... lf lala friends :)