How2LNC the Carraway Way

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hachiko

Would it be worth it to put together a heavy Dex set, e.g.:

Complete Control I & II +15 Dex
Cobalt Coif (Red) +2 Dex (Or Woolen Turban w/ +3 Dex)
3x Amythest Rings (or 4x Fluorite) +21 Dex (+20 Dex)
Tortoiseshell Scale Mail +6 Dex
Cobalt Plated Jackboots (Red) +3 Dex
Cobalt Vambraces (Red) +3 Dex
Raptorskin Subligar +4 Dex

That would be ~+53 Dex, Would that be enough to test the impact it has?

Also, I think Steel Tassets might be worth mentioning for waist slot. It's less defense than the other belts being only level 32, but it's the only belt with + attack, and seems like a viable option compared to Penance, for now.

---

When testing individual stat impact, you need to make sure that the control has as close to the same amount of non-tested stats as possible. If you can achieve that, test away. A margin of ~53 is more than healthy enough.

I hadn't noticed Steel Tassets, but I don't really see a reason to recommend them. Too much of an in-between measure -- if survivability is an issue, Peisteskin Hunting Belt wins because you can attach tier 4 materia to it. If you're shooting for maximum contribution to DPS, Penance wins.

Great write up, I see only 1 problem though. Craftable items with 1 materia would beat out the Ifrit lance. I would just change your weapons to Hart lance +123 > Ifrit weapon > others.



There are almost no rare/ex gear at 50 that beat out craftable with materia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Serdapi

Great write up, I see only 1 problem though. Craftable items with 1 materia would beat out the Ifrit lance. I would just change your weapons to Hart lance +123 > Ifrit weapon > others.

Second Penance would not beat out most belts with a materia attached.

There are almost no rare/ex gear at 50 that beat out craftable with materia.

---

Penance is the only belt with a +STR modifier, although you can throw + HP onto a crafted belt, if you don't have survivability issues Penance is hands-down the way to go. You have to keep in mind things like +STR/+Att/+Crit materia can only be attached to certain slots, and belt is not one of them.

Ya you caught me I forgot that till right after I posted. But the weapons are meldable with +str/att/crit.

Also re-reading Life Surge applies the lifesteal bonus to all attacks. When soloing Life surge > speed surge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Serdapi

Ya you caught me I forgot that till right after I posted. But the weapons are meldable with +str/att/crit.

---

Yes, but I believe Ifrit's Harpoon is still better up until two materia? No idea to be completely honest, but I think that's the case. I still have yet to get my Harpoon. I haven't even gotten anything I didn't want yet. :/

Melded +2 Hart Guisarme (142 base damage) definitely does not beat Ifrit's Harpoon. Base damage is by far the most significant attribute on a weapon, point-for-point.

You must be talking pure spike damage from a ws. Or you have yet to test out Hart NQ +crit materia. Since your WS can crit now a crit Doomspike II with Hart will do less damage but you will crit more often BY FAR. I'm guessing you haven't tested the hart+crit and ifrit.

If you have I'd like to see documented evidence. I do believe you that big numbers are fun and might lead you to believe something is better but if you are doing big numbers but crit hitting like 20% less than somebody with hart+crit then you are still doing less damage.

I'm not saying you're wrong exactly I would just like to see documentation. I know lots of people that think rare/ex items from "big" fights are/should be the best so they gloat that they are because they have them. Just making sure this isn't the case.

We've parsed strongholds and hundreds of Ifrit fights with melded Hart NQs, +1s, and a +2 vs. Ifrit's Harpoon. Base damage far outweighs any benefit from one Savage Might materia. Inflated crit rates during Ifrit fights occur due to player choice as to which WS they apply Blindside to; regular variance also applies. Savage Might definitely does not boost crit rate by 20%.

Neat were can I see these parsers docs?

Also is this only on the Ifrit fight? If thats the case then the lance might be the best for that fight but not xp/other nms/other fights? correct?

I was unaware that your post was meant purely to the Ifrit fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Serdapi

Neat were can I see these parsers docs?

Also is this only on the Ifrit fight? If thats the case then the lance might be the best for that fight but not xp/other nms/other fights? correct?

I was unaware that your post was meant purely to the Ifrit fight.

---

See:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carraway

We've parsed strongholds and hundreds of Ifrit fights with melded Hart NQs, +1s, and a +2 vs. Ifrit's Harpoon.

---

/10char

I don't save my stronghold parses because lol, strongholds, but:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1...111020kill.jpg

This is by no means representative of the best we can do, but it's an average Ifrit kill with an average amount of Crimson Cyclones. Blindside is the predominant factor in determining overall crit rate because you can force crits on all of your Chaos Thrust hits. The Harpoon that placed lower than Hart +2 is due to player error, not the weapon. I'm using this parse simply to demonstrate that Hart +2 does not magically have insanely higher crit rate or overall damage output just because it has materia in it. Going from zero Savage Might to one Savage Might III/IV does not boost crit rate by an observable amount, nor does going from one to two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carraway

I don't save my stronghold parses because lol, strongholds, but:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1...111020kill.jpg

This is by no means representative of the best we can do, but it's an average Ifrit kill with an average amount of Crimson Cyclones. Blindside is the predominant factor in determining overall crit rate because you can force crits on all of your Chaos Thrust hits. The Harpoon that placed lower than Hart +2 is due to player error, not the weapon. I'm using this parse simply to demonstrate that Hart +2 does not magically have insanely higher crit rate or overall damage output just because it has materia in it. Going from zero Savage Might to one Savage Might III/IV does not boost crit rate by an observable amount, nor does going from one to two.

---

Question, but when you reference Blindside, I assume you mean the II version? I've noticed lackluster impact with just regular Blindside (Mind you this was 1.18 Darkhold runs rockin' an ARC), or has the ability changed much in 1.19?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belial

Question, but when you reference Blindside, I assume you mean the II version? I've noticed lackluster impact with just regular Blindside (Mind you this was 1.18 Darkhold runs rockin' an ARC), or has the ability changed much in 1.19?

---

After 1.19, Blindside I and II both force a crit on your next active attack. For Chaos Thrust, it affects all hits of Chaos Thrust.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carraway

After 1.19, Blindside I and II both force a crit on your next active attack. For Chaos Thrust, it affects all hits of Chaos Thrust.

---

See that little tidbit wasn't post in patch notes so I was oblivious. Thanks though, I assume that the second tier has a higher crit strength? Time to level PGL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carraway

We've parsed strongholds and hundreds of Ifrit fights with melded Hart NQs, +1s, and a +2 vs. Ifrit's Harpoon. Base damage far outweighs any benefit from one Savage Might materia. Inflated crit rates during Ifrit fights occur due to player choice as to which WS they apply Blindside to; regular variance also applies. Savage Might definitely does not boost crit rate by 20%.

---

If all that Savage Might does is boost your crit% (not power) then how do the Sipahi Gloves hold up?

If Savage Might is a marginal gain, a what point would you consider wearing the Gloves over say Cobalt Mitt with +atk or +str?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

If all that Savage Might does is boost your crit% (not power) then how do the Sipahi Gloves hold up?

If Savage Might is a marginal gain, a what point would you consider wearing the Gloves over say Cobalt Mitt with +atk or +str?

---

The crit materia available is for +Crit Attack, the Sipahi Gloves are for +Crit Rating. Personally I choose the Sipahi Gloves because they're currently the only option that provides Crit Rating. Whether or not that stacks well against gloves with +STR/+Attack isn't known to me. I'm sure it's similar to other situations where it's better than some, but 2, 3, 4 materia slotted may be better?

Extremely preliminary and inconclusive testing on L53 watchwolves in Natalan:

Without Sipahi Gloves: 7 out of 100 autoattacks were crits (7%)
With Sipahi Gloves: 8 out of 112 autoattacks were crits (7.1%)

No other changes in gear, stats, etc. No buffs used.

What this tells me is that 15 Crit Rate is not significant enough to be immediately observable with a small sample size. I'll do further testing with hundreds of attacks on L50 Amalj'aa Drubbers later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carraway

Extremely preliminary and inconclusive testing on L53 watchwolves in Natalan:

Without Sipahi Gloves: 7 out of 100 autoattacks were crits (7%)
With Sipahi Gloves: 8 out of 112 autoattacks were crits (7.1%)

No other changes in gear, stats, etc. No buffs used.

What this tells me is that 15 Crit Rate is not significant enough to be immediately observable with a small sample size. I'll do further testing with hundreds of attacks on L50 Amalj'aa Drubbers later.

---

I wonder if they are just not designed for a Lancer. To me the gloves seem more for Archer/Pug
We don't know what the innate crit rates are, but I have to assume they are not the same per class.

We do know that Mrd and Pug have weapons that have a crit rate bonus on them like the gloves, but I would hope they are better then your first test results have shown.

Updated the guide with slightly detailed notes on a few things, like various abilities and how stats work.

Still don't have any hard damage/stat formulae, and I haven't had a chance to do further testing on crit rate and STR vs. ATK, but for now, valuing STR:ATK at a 2:3 ratio seems sound based on limited parsing, testing, and just looking at the materia boosts.

Someone posted on ffxivpro that Hart Guisarme +3 is 145 base damage, falling in line with the boost from +1 to +2. With that being the case, I feel even more confident in stating that Ifrit's Harpoon is the better choice. My conjecture is that Hart +3 would need at least 3 materia to be on par with Ifrit's Harpoon, not counting the additional effect of fire damage.

This guide helped me out a lot! ^^

Target mob: L50 Amalj'aa Drubber

Without Sipahi Gloves: 200 attacks, 20 crits (10.0% crit)
With Sipahi Gloves: 200 attacks, 22 crits (11.0% crit)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carraway

Target mob: L50 Amalj'aa Drubber

Without Sipahi Gloves: 200 attacks, 20 crits (10.0% crit)
With Sipahi Gloves: 200 attacks, 22 crits (11.0% crit)

---

so depressing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carraway

Target mob: L50 Amalj'aa Drubber

Without Sipahi Gloves: 200 attacks, 20 crits (10.0% crit)
With Sipahi Gloves: 200 attacks, 22 crits (11.0% crit)

---

Are those AA swings or is this with weapon skills as well? I feel Crit Rating may benefit weaponskills moreso than AA? I've only had visual comparisons though which, as we all know, means jack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belial

Are those AA swings or is this with weapon skills as well? I feel Crit Rating may benefit weaponskills moreso than AA? I've only had visual comparisons though which, as we all know, means jack.

---

Auto-attacks. I mean, Crit Rate will disproportionately affect weaponskills since you do less of them and any kind of upward swing will skew the numbers more, but with enough samples, it works out the same way. I actually performed around 75 Moonrise IIs per 200 autos and ended up with like 6.7% without Sipahi vs 7.8% with Sipahi.

Further testing of STR vs. ATK

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...7f5e000621.jpg

No buffs used except for Speed Surge II, Bloodbath II, and Keen Flurry.

Another great thread Carraway, I'll be reading the guide shortly after this post.

Sipahi seems to be 1.5% crit from what I've been reading here and there, and your parses seem to back that up.

On your 2:3 ratio I just want to make sure I'm clear on my understanding.
2 str == 3 attack?

Quick question for you guy.

I got 2 pair of cobalt Gauntlet: one with strength +26 or the other with att power +44

Wich one you think is better??

well if it's 2 str == 3 att
26 str would equate to 39 att, and 44 att would be roughly 30 str

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akuun

On your 2:3 ratio I just want to make sure I'm clear on my understanding.
2 str == 3 attack?

---

Yeah, at least against L50 targets. Haven't done any testing on anything over L50. I'm also not sure if the curve changes with lower-level targets; been busy testing Skyrim instead.

Skyrim is win

Yay!!! Another thread promoting cookie-cutter model characters...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jason33w

Yay!!! Another thread promoting cookie-cutter model characters...

---

If you have a better way of playing as Lancer, let's hear it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jason33w

Yay!!! Another thread promoting cookie-cutter model characters...

---

wait what?

cookie cutter is a term used when describing certain builds for games that allow you to spec, this game is not one of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jason33w

Yay!!! Another thread promoting cookie-cutter model characters...

---

Hey, no one is telling you how to play the game. This is a thread created to help those who enjoy min/maxing their character, which is a chore for some who don't have the playtime to test every facet of the game. Carraway is just a dedicated enough player to provide others' with his information & testing, which not everyone is willing to do.

What have you provided the community? What "unique" build can you suggest which is comparable in DPS output? (btw, good luck with that one considering the Armory System. Most of us have multiple classes 30+, most are 40+ since 1.19's implementation, and unless you can pull some sort of secret skills out your ass, you've got nothing that's not factored in already.)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...764#post449764

We keep Chaos Thrust, but with lower accuracy and, if used in a combo, increased crit.

LNC's Surge mechanic is changed to a stacking self-buff, and loses the package deal of HP return and another bonus; haste is replaced by what is essentially Berserk Surge.

I'm looking forward to seeing exactly how powerful combo bonuses are in 1.20; I really hope that they're significant enough to warrant consistent usage, even while trying to move around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carraway

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...764#post449764

We keep Chaos Thrust, but with lower accuracy and, if used in a combo, increased crit.

LNC's Surge mechanic is changed to a stacking self-buff, and loses the package deal of HP return and another bonus; haste is replaced by what is essentially Berserk Surge.

I'm looking forward to seeing exactly how powerful combo bonuses are in 1.20; I really hope that they're significant enough to warrant consistent usage, even while trying to move around.

---

Yea, the combo system is what has me really interested, the ability revisions I can work with easily enough. I'm actually extremely excited to see what kinda traits they implement, these may recover some of the losses from abilities I'm thinking.

Oh I didn't see this thread but nice write up Carraway.

Krausus I posted that originally at the very start of 1.19 when there was even less of a clue what stats did to help people decide gear short term to get the boost to kill ifrit. Since Ifrit is a special mob where AA's don't account for much of your overall damage (10% or less) it did much more to find out how to boost your WS damage.

Btw if this is of any help, we had someone do ATK and STR testing but the gear he swapped around wasn't in any Particular rate like 2:3.
----------------
100 unbuffed 3000% doomspikes on 47-49 wildhogs and roughly 550 normal hits per build. was parsing the influence of str and atk while farming boar hides.
***********
build1 140DMG 352STR 493ATK

normal attack
min 206
max 264
avg 233

critmin 275
critmax 354
critavg 312

doomspike
min 1105
max 1383
avg 1236

critmin 1250
critmax 1846
critavg 1639
**************

build2 140DMG 288STR 584ATK

normal attack
min 225
max 288
avg 255

critmin 296
critmax 391
critavg 337

doomspike
min 1142
max 1452
avg 1288

critmin 1568
critmax 1752
critavg 1680

**************
build3 140DMG 306STR 559ATK

normal attack
min 221
max 282
avg 247

critmin 293
critmax 374
critavg 325

doomspike
min 1145
max 1435
avg 1263

critmin 1491
critmax 1926
critavg 1723

Testing is always good, but my concern with those test results is what was the exact spread of L47, L48, and L49 hogs per test. If any of the builds' test results skewed toward one end of the level spectrum, then the results are mostly invalidated because of the relatively unquantified effects of dLVL (level correction, or difference in level).

seems like it has become rather obvious that str converts over to attack (which is in line with that dev post made by a community rep), wish it would show on the stats pane in game I too am now just gonna stack str.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

seems like it has become rather obvious that str converts over to attack (which is in line with that dev post made by a community rep), wish it would show on the stats pane in game I too am now just gonna stack str.

---

It does not, and has been stated as such in Rep replies on stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

In regards to the questions of "how much STR do I need to increase my attack?" and "Well, in FFXI this is how it worked!" type of comments; FINAL FANTASY XIV works entirely differently and doesn't use the same system where (for example) 2STR = 1 attack. STR+ X is used to calculate your damage output so you won't see a change in other parameters by simply adding on more STR.

---

It is used in calculating damage, as is attack, but we don't yet know the formulas or have any rough hypothesis to the formulas.

As for the parsing done here, it's a very very small sample, and I've seen parses that show attack to be the greater.
My personal thought is that both are important and damage will suffer if you ignore either for the other.