Anima Weapons

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Originally Posted by MaeIsMean

Here's the thing.... effort vs reward has absolutely ZIP to do with whether or not an item is considered mandatory or not. The fact is, the effort vs reward on this is skewed, by alot. Not just a little. Yes, it is currently the best you can get (or one of the best? Not sure as I'm still rocking my 180s). But the sheer amount of time required to complete this is astronomically higher than any other means of attaining a similar weapon. And that isn't even taking into consideration the cost. There's grinding, and there's this. It needs to be adjusted. It can STILL be difficult, time consuming, expensive and grindy without requiring 400 dungeon runs.

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I think you are sorely underestimating the time and difficulty of beating AS4, let alone having it on farm status. How many people have you met that have downed it? I think the difficulty of obtaining a 210 Gordian/Eso weapon is well balanced with the time and effort required to finish a Anima.

Step one, the new "atma" crystals: I am not bothered too much by this one after taking a look at the drop rate. It can be skipped by trading in a Zeta, so there is also that. It will simply take time to complete, but that's about it. Doesn't bother me much, but it really bothered many people.

Step two, dungeons: I like this one, its actually fun to undersize the old dungeons and new dungeons aren't that terrible so its not a bad step. Again, it will just take time. Pray you don't get brain dead people on DF and kidnap a friend for extra fun.

Step three, item hell: Let me really take a good look at this... OK, so its a really long grind for items. There are lots of ways to go about it? Nice gesture, split the process across the board and you will be done after a time. It will still take a really long time, perhaps more time that what we are all willing to give. Not the smartest of moves.

But... wait, what is that?! They want 1-star HQ specialist items that require other specialist items as components? And 4 of them per set? Oh boy, that was not a smart move. The relic weapon is supposed to be the weapon casuals that don't raid shoot for, right? Its supposed to be a weapon you "buy" with time. If you are not a high end crafter then you have to get these items with money. You can bet the items are going to be ridiculously expensive for weeks (maybe months depending on server), effectively walling casuals of their relic.

Just my view of the subject anyway. Not the smartest way to start the relic quest line. I just hope that, since we are doing these things now we don't have to suffer from anything like this again during the new relic quest line.

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Originally Posted by Kohji143

(My first post)
Ffxi at its finest time took 2 real life years to complete the relics.

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Not even remotely comparable. Relics in XI were The Weapon, if you spent the time to get one you were set for literally years. You'll be replacing your 210 anima weapon in the next raid tier, like you did with your novus.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

If you aren't planning on seriously doing endgame, there is no reason, at all, beyond pure ego that a person needs a 210 weapon.

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If you want to get technical you can't acquire a 210 weapon until you beat end game, so it's not even required for that. And if 2.x is a benchmark weapons were the choke point on your item level and were not easily upgraded unless you did the relic quest. Relics aren't supposed to be what you think they are. They are equivalent weapons that can be acquired by non-raiders. And people constantly going to the argument of "you don't need it if you don't raid" completely invalidates the entire mechanism of this game and can/will drive players away from this game. It sounds good to you, but trust me you do not want a dead game. This quest is unacceptable busy work to use old content rather than devote resources to creating something new, and it should not be defended unless this is what you want patch after patch.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

i really don't understand the level of complaints over the new relic weapon quests

i mean comparing the Anima Weapon (FFXIV) to the Aeonic weapon (FFXI) quest line

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People need to stop bringing up FFXI. Relic weapons and other weapons like them were a P.I.T.A. to get......but they lasted FOREVER. Gear in a vertical progression MMO has a shelf life of maybe 3-5 months. These two games can't even be compared accurately. If you can compare this game to another game WoW is as close as it gets.

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Originally Posted by Nulah

to get the weapon you would need 8 pages which means 8 weeks of farming which means 2 months, and this weapon will take about the same time to get sooo you want something thats good you gotta work for it equally as everyone else dont expect to get everything handed out to you just cause, imo this is not that bad.

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Except that those two methods of obtaining a weapon aren't remotely equivalent. It might take ~2 months of killing A4s to get a gobdip or the gordian weapon, but the content to acquire either of those is one-and-done. Every week it resets, and you go kill it and then you're done until the next week. The relic weapon requires day in, day out, all day, every day farming of old content to get the items. And even if I dump that much time into farming content and getting all of the non-tradeable items I still have to deal with buying the remaining items from the market board and that's the crux of why this is bad. I know a lot of players who never have more than like 800k gil on them at any time and just one of these items now are floating between 1M and 4M gil, and they're not things you can craft yourself. They're specialist recipe items made with other specialist recipe items and you can only have 3 specializations. This will not end well and the prices won't go down far enough for far more than 2 months. It would probably also be cheaper to just buy an A4S clear to get a 210 weapon.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

until yesterday i had no real objective to playing this game, now i do!! (i'm doing the Crystal grind even though i can skip it)

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I feel you there. I never really considered quitting until I hit step 3 of the relic on Wednesday.

People talk about the crafting part of the quest as if it was absolutely impossible for a player to level up a crafter to craft the items. It's not, and you can do it very fast if you're willing to do it. You can't have all specialists, but that's true for everyone and a lot of people are willing to trade. I saw a crafter on PF today in my server and he was asking to trade crafted items with other crafter to complete his relic. Not hard at all. If a player is not willing to do that, just do what you're supposed to do in a game like FF XIV: make friends, join linkshells and a free company. Done. There are several players that are willing to craft those items for a reasonable price if you provide the mats. Leveling up a gatherer to 60 doesn't take longer than a week. Yes, a week. I've done it myself. So any casual player should be able to do it to gather whatever is needed for the relic, and to be honest the items are not high tier and shouldn't require any melded gear. You can do it with Red Scrips, which are fairly easy to get.
The relic is not supposed to be given for free and it should require work. It will only take longer than a month to casually grind it (hardcores can do all the steps in a week, since the Alexander grind part is as fast as light farming with an average PF group), so there's absolutely no reason to complain. And yes, SE should make players do old content, otherwise new players won't have anyone to do content with. Try playing WoW or FF XI (and yes, I'll compare) and you'll see what I mean. In FF XI, you basically won't stumble on any players in the starter areas and playing it can feel very lonely. I started meeting people in FF XI when I managed to get to Jeuno, and that was it. There was no one to play with, because all the areas suited to a starting player don't give anything good to a veteran player. I depended on Trust NPCs to level up.
Unless the developers force us to play with new people, most of us won't and their experience will be crap. You guys think that this grind will drag people away from the game, but it's quite the opposite: it prevents people from buying FF XIV and then quitting after their first month expires. If an easy grind like this one is scaring you guys, I can't imagine how you would play old school games like Ragnarok Online. You'd give up in a week.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

Not hard at all.

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I'm pretty sure that nobody is really arguing that getting the crafted items is hard. It's time consuming? Yes. It will keep us busy? Yes. It's annoying? Yes. You can have your opinion that the crafting part is fine, but I personally do not agree with this direction. I would rather farm more dungeons or do more fates. Hell, I would settle with RNG, and I hate RNG with a passion. But crafting? If it really is their only way to bring crafting in the spotlight, they need to rehaul the entire base upon which they started building the expansion from.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

so there's absolutely no reason to complain.

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There is ALWAYS a reason to complain. Everybody plays and pays for this game, we all have our right to express our opinion.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

A wall of text

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you my dear sir need to do a little research

for starters I'm not comparing to relic weapons i'm comparing to Aeonic weapons (while it is in the same class as relic weapons)

the Aeonic weapons quests have ONLY JUST COME OUT as of the last patch to FFXI and due to FFXI getting NO NEW CONTENT the weapon is pretty much useless right out the box but has an even worse grind than Anima weapons

at least Anima weapon have 1 month life to them.

so in short I feel my example holds up

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

the Aeonic weapons quests have ONLY JUST COME OUT as of the last patch to FFXI and due to FFXI getting NO NEW CONTENT the weapon is pretty much useless right out the box but has an even worse grind than Anima weapons

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No. The weapon just came out and so did the final patch, so the weapon literally will last for the rest of the game until the servers shut down. Something like that should have a grind. This weapon will last at most 2 or so months before it gets replaced or the next quest for this comes along and another horrible grind is tacked on top to get to the next phase.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

The relic is supposed to be grindy and hard to get. If you're a casual player, the i200 is more than enough, or even the Thordan weapon. If you want a i210 weapon, work for it. People who bitch about grinding things have never played MMOs in their lives. Grinding is a part of any MMO.

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And you know what? I'm starting to think those people who have never played an MMO in their lives are better off doing so. The grind isn't fun, and it never was fun. It's simply a lazy way for the devs to keep subs by making arbitrary gates.

I know alot of people have been complaining about bad choices and poor design on the devs, and I'll say that the quest line was very lazy and lackluster. But on the flip side, they may have done some things right.

The crystal grind was not something new to us, a lot of us have done this before, and good on you if you got to skip this step. While some are okay with it, others hate it. But what if it was done on purpose and not just to recycle content, but to maybe actually get people out of idyllshire and their housing district and make the zones come alive with players to help newer players level? Maybe this was their plan, much like 2.0 atma. Newer players flooded into the game due to its launch on the PS4 at the same time.

Dungeoun step is very easy, and like other people have said, its fun to blaze through the older dungeouns in unsynched parties. The newer dungeouns are a bit longer, but like I said previously, maybe this was the plan all along. Get an influx of people into these early dungeouns to curb some of the long que times to help others level.

The last step is where it gets tricky. Its quite a doosey, and will take quite some time for people to complete. On the surface it looks like a lot to do all at once, but in fact, like others have said, there are many ways to get the items you need. Law, Poetics, Alex normal tokens, Treasure Maps, Beast Tribe quests, old hunt marks. While some people don't see this as an ease on the system itself, it is refreshing to have all of these avenues to get tokens. If you get bored doing one thing, you can go on to another. Don't want to run alex normal anymore? Go hunting! This quest might be more of the same song and dance, but it was designed in such a way, that its only as grindy or as annoying as you make it.

As for crafting items needed? This isn't the first time this has happened. But in a previous step it also threw in a brand new thing at the same time, much like the specialty system. Previously, it was desynthing. It was kind of their way of shoe-horning it in, and trying to make it relevant, cause who was actually really looking forward to leveling it when it came out? Same thing with specialtists. It isn't needed by crafters to do the already exsisting recipies, but its forcing them to do something they may or may not have done already to help with your or their own relics.

In conclusion, like many have said in this thread, this quest chain is completely optional. Its not something you have to do. You have to want to do it. It is lackluster, and void of any real challenge, and could use some fresh content to spice it up, but for reasons unknown, we didn't get it and it was put out. Is it bad? I don't think so. It does what it needs to do, and thats fill the void of playtime people that are logging in might have. Thats not to say that it doesn't need improvement, and hopefully we will see something with future patchs, but we just have to take what we have atm. If its not your thing, you can opt out of doing it totally. All you can do is voice your opinion on what you would like to see changed, and hopefully they will see what is being said.

TL : DR - The quests aren't as bad as you think they are. They require quite a bit of time, and might be the same old song and dance, but maybe, just maybe, the devs designed it this way with other motives in mind. Only they know the truth. If you don't like it, the whole thing is optional, and I suggest leaving it alone if you don't enjoy doing it. (sorry for any grammar errors lol)

I read and read and all I see is "I'm entitled! I'm entitled!". No. You're. Not.

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Originally Posted by Sareal

There is ALWAYS a reason to complain. Everybody plays and pays for this game, we all have our right to express our opinion.

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You pay to have access to the game. You don't pay to get content that's made to adapt to your tastes and/or sense of entitlement. You don't pay to have a say in what the devs choose to do. You don't own the game, SE does. You're not the boss of SE, no one here is. Again: you pay to have access to the game. You have access when you pay. You got what you paid for.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

If you want to get technical you can't acquire a 210 weapon until you beat end game, so it's not even required for that. And if 2.x is a benchmark weapons were the choke point on your item level and were not easily upgraded unless you did the relic quest. Relics aren't supposed to be what you think they are. They are equivalent weapons that can be acquired by non-raiders. And people constantly going to the argument of "you don't need it if you don't raid" completely invalidates the entire mechanism of this game and can/will drive players away from this game. It sounds good to you, but trust me you do not want a dead game. This quest is unacceptable busy work to use old content rather than devote resources to creating something new, and it should not be defended unless this is what you want patch after patch.

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I don't remember saying that 210 weapons were required to complete AS4. But they do help. But, we'll just go with your whole point of they aren't "needed" for anything at all. In which case there is even less reason to do them than I even made them out to be. And I dunno why you came to the conclusion that relics aren't what I think they are, because "They are equivalent weapons that can be acquired by non-raiders" pretty much sums up what I think they are in a nutshell.

Furthermore, I don't believe that the argument of you don't need it if you don't raid, invalidates anything about the mechanics of the game. This is a progression based game, but progression in this context doesn't mean "You must be the best of the best no matter what you do!" It just means to advance until you are where you need to be. That's the way I see it at least. And I'm gonna be honest, if a single questline, for a single optional item is going to catastrophically destroy the game with a mass exodus as you say, then honestly, so be it. But I think you are grossly overestimating how many people are actually going to quit over this silliness.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

You pay to have access to the game. You don't pay to get content that's made to adapt to your tastes and/or sense of entitlement. You don't pay to have a say in what the devs choose to do. You don't own the game, SE does. You're not the boss of SE, no one here is. Again: you pay to have access to the game. You have access when you pay. You got what you paid for.

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Alrighty "white knight" let me break this down for you. As a paying subscriber, we each own a part of the game. If this game was a buy and pay once, or F2P game, what you said would hold a candle, however, this is a subscription based game. Without our money, there would be no more gaming, period. We all have a right in expressing our opinions about the current content, as well as our view on how things should be. Can everyone be happy, of course not. This game would not exist without a player base, and there would be no reason to develop any more content unless there is a constant player base that plays the game.

"Got what we paid for" is exactly what people are complaining about. We did not pay for rehashed content, we did not pay for a copy paste of content that was not fun before, and we are not paying a monthly fee to be hushed by people like you. It's not an "entitlement" issue, it's an investment issue. Many people here, myself included, are not happy with how our investment is hashing out, and are only continuing to support said investment for hopes that it will get better. Given the current trend, we are voicing our opinions before having to speak from our wallets.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

I read and read and all I see is "I'm entitled! I'm entitled!". No. You're. Not.

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^ feels entitled to tell ppl they're entitled. The irony here is that you have no right to tell anyone how to use the forums. Thats SE's job. Your sense of entitlement is disgusting lol.

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Welcome to Forum: Quests!
The purpose of this forum is to provide a place for players to discuss various quests in FINAL FANTASY XIV.

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^ this gives them a right to express their opinions about quests no?

This forum is a place where you may discuss quests. You seem to want to discuss ppl. Why not continue discussing the quests? I'm sure there will be interesting quest-related discussions to follow!

I expected an annoying grind and just plan on doing this all casually over the next couple of weeks. With real life (work, family, holidays, etc) and other games to play, 800 Alex runs AIN'T HAPPENING. LOL. For my summoner (my main) the weapon is not BIS so I'm even less motivated to go through with the whole quest. There really isn't any rush. I'm just a little salty over the lack of innovation with the quests and the crap stats on some of the weapons.....and the crafting component of step 3. But, it is what it is. I still need to take down savage and Thordan Ex....just because. :-/

As an omnicrafter myself, I have to admit that when I heard there was crafted stuff to sell I was pretty excited to start price gouging. But after seeing what exactly the quest is asking for, I can't help but feel bad for the players without crafters that want to get a relic. One of each would be pricey enough, but 16? I can't believe the dev team thought that was in any way acceptable--especially with items locked behind each and every type of specialist craft.

Furthermore, while I don't mind a grind, they delayed this relic faaaaaaar too late to be asking for a whopping 620 alex nm runs. Why wasn't this introduced in 3.0 or 3.1 like originally intended? Surely it couldn't have taken long to come up with the sparse dialogue and tokens reusing old models that this had to be delayed by 6 months. By the time most people complete this thing it'll be like a week from 3.2 and all that effort will have been for nothing. I love what they did with the first two steps, and I definitely appreciate the neat glam options from the i200 weapons, but I think I'll be holding out until the live letter to see their future plans with this before continuing on with the third step.

It's been really disappointing the last few months with how content has been going. Thordan Ex was absolutely perfect, but it's not enough to make up for the long content lull we've been experiencing. Hopefully Yoshi-P and his team can turn this around in 3.2 before it gets any worse

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Originally Posted by winsock

^ feels entitled to tell ppl they're entitled. The irony here is that you have no right to tell anyone how to use the forums. Thats SE's job. Your sense of entitlement is disgusting lol.

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5th grade logic. Pretty.

People are not debating the quests. People are bitching. No one here owns a part of the game. It's like saying I own a part of The Coca Cola company just because I bought a bottle the other day. What you pay for subscription covers server maintenance; it hardly covers the hour wage of a single member of the dev team. No one heres own shit, and people have to start dealing with it. The grind is not painful, it's normal relic stuff; it feels big because they added three steps at the same time. The old relic started i80, then we got another upgrading option afterwards and months after we got Atma. Some people spent months trying to farm the 12 pieces, in a grind that was way more painful than anything people have now, and after that they had to do books to match the stats of the i95 weapon from coil (you could only do 4 books at launch of the animus questline). If you don't feel like doing it, just farm Thordan. It's a good weapon as well. If you can't farm Thordan, if you don't raid, if you can't craft, if you can't gather and if you can't save the gil to buy items, what are you doing with your time in the game?

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

If you can't farm Thordan, if you don't raid, if you can't craft, if you can't gather and if you can't save the gil to buy items, what are you doing with your time in the game?

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I don't have anything to add. I just really enjoyed this. Kudos.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

you could only do 4 books at launch of the animus questline

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This is wrong. People simply misinterpreted the line stating that "There were nine books in total. Of which, only four were available at first" All that line meant, was that you only had four books to choose from at the start, then the other books became available as you completed the previous ones.
Aside from that though, you bring up good arguments.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

The grind is not painful

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^ the only difference between this opinion and the ppl who disagree with you is that this opinion is yours. Your opinion is no better or worse then anyone else commenting here. Its just hard to see that from atop a pedestal.

Personally, Im not a fan of RNG progression.
Grinding for hours and not being any closer to the end goal blows.
If you're to player part of the player base that enjoys this kind of content and want to voice your opinion about how much you enjoy it, that's fine.
I don't and ill voice that opinion.

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Originally Posted by winsock

^ the only difference between this opinion and the ppl who disagree with you is that this opinion is yours. Your opinion is no better or worse then anyone else commenting here. Its just hard to see that from atop a pedestal.

Personally, Im not a fan of RNG progression.
Grinding for hours and not being any closer to the end goal blows.
If you're to player part of the player base that enjoys this kind of content and want to voice your opinion about how much you enjoy it, that's fine.
I don't and ill voice that opinion.

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The grind is, however, 100% optional. This is not an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

The grind is, however, 100% optional. This is not an opinion.

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True. Not sure how that applies to the argument at all though. The entire game is optional. At what point are players allowed to give negative feedback or criticize the game in your opinion?

Well, it's like, it's not something that needs to be done. It's required for nothing. It's basically a trophy piece. Nobody is being forced to do it. Not doing it won't have any negative impact in your gaming experience at all. Yet, people are throwing out words like "unacceptable" and "insane" and threatening to unsub over this quest. Personally, I feel like this brand of "feedback" is just unhelpful. The only thing it showcases is how thin skinned the playerbase is.

Further, the grind really is only as painful as you choose to make it. Choosing to grind hunts or Alex all day, every day, is also optional. You can do the weapon at as intense, or leisurely of a pace as you like. You could honestly do nothing but your beast dailies every day, and literally mark on your calendar the exact day you'll get your relic.

I'd like to remind people that sometimes the best response, is to not respond at all. Everyone can give their opinion, wether its good or not is how you want to look at it. I would also like to say that more meaningful feedback would get the thread more publicity. If you don't like something, say what it is, why you dislike it, give comparisions, maybe even give idea's on how to fix it. Either way, lets try to keep on topic :D

You know SE, 80/16 for the items turn in is an incredibly awkward number to have on hand... why not make it 100/8? Those numbers are much less awkward! And hey, 8 is perfectly symmetrical to boot!

The grind doesn't bother me in the least, the crafted turn ins do.

I made 7 zeta between my main and my now unsubbed alt account but I am not making a single anima weapon. Those crafter requirements make me refuse to do even 1. Not when it will just become a glamour item in 4.0 anyway

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Originally Posted by Zophar

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Yeah, I mean, and I can agree with some of that. Like, something perceived as negative occurs and you have ppl who criticize the game like the world is somehow coming to an end lol.

Not to say that I support their delivery of said criticism, but I do think they have a right to be upset and to criticize. Yes the quest is optional, but so is every part of the game when you get down to it. Savage and Thordan are optional. Dungeons are optional. Fates are optional, etc. Is there anything that's really mandatory?

The reason I bring this up is because the 'required' stuff is relative to the goals of player. No one needs to be max level or have the best gear necessarily. If you cant dedicate a scheduled time to practice savage with a static and your goals involve maxing out a character, this quest is your only option. Many players are faced with a dilemma of giving up on their goal (and possibly unsubscribing because they can no longer progress towards their goal) or possibly spend a huge amount of time participating in content they dont enjoy.

The kicker is that it didnt need to be like this. SE could have created an adequate time sink while giving players the option to sink their time into what they enjoy, rather than forcing them into fate grinding / crafting / money making for an indeterminate amount of time.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

The grind doesn't bother me in the least, the crafted turn ins do.

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Same here, since that part it the only one which made me go wtf, at this moment they are so expensive and since people will continue to need them I don´t see that changing in a long time. So for now the only ones that will get the relic are crafters, clear-sellers, gil buyers and those who in some other way have managed to get enough gil.
But my biggest fear is that this will be christmas eve for all who sell gil... gg SE, gg.

like i said in a other tread there are 2 reason why it's expensive :
1) the high demand
2) diadem item XD, a lot of the mat is coming from diadem, i don't think DOL is farming diadem right now, the same players is certainly doing the relic too.

The main problem with this type of system is the current economic structure of ARR. This game has one of the worst economic structor I have ever seen in a MMO. Items massively deflate in a matter of moments due to over supply. SE was told since Alpha-1 this type of system would destroy this games economy. Instead you get all these white knights say "its a good system" having clearly never playing other MMO's to compare it to. What this system does is called a economical implosion. The games economy isn't growing, its implodeing. SE quick fix is to dump thousands of new item into the economy in order to stablelize it. The problem with that approach it just stacks onto the orginall problem making matters worse. Then you get the same problem all over again. People use the argument of supply and demand, that only applies to a certain degree and cannot be the foundation to a economic structure. The economy as a whole need to have a balance in order for it to function.

Cant have the scales tip vastly on one side and then the other. This game economy can best be described as a teater toter. "World of Warcraft " had a great economic structure,Final Fantasy XI online, Aion Online,Warhammer Online, Phantasy star online I,and II. I can go on and on. This type of system does not work or will never work in a MMO all youll get is the same thing over and over again. Ihad crafts in FFXI and WOW that I used for years will very little deflation. Final Fantasy XI economy was stable for a good part of a decade. Se should of drawn from other MMO's to come up with a economically sound structure. A lot of the Alpha-Beta Testers oppsed this type of system because we knew this would happen, the excuse was "it will get better" its been more then 3 years and the economy is still as bad as it was at lauch and there is no excuses for this type of lazeness. And I hate to say this but the player -base is to blame for this mess

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Originally Posted by Montlee

As an omnicrafter myself, I have to admit that when I heard there was crafted stuff to sell I was pretty excited to start price gouging.

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And this is why requiring high quality crafted items in these quests is a horrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Montlee

One of each would be pricey enough, but 16? I can't believe the dev team thought that was in any way acceptable

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The development team makes this stuff with the belief that the playerbase is generally good and won't price gouge each other and will instead work together to complete these things. They're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Montlee

--especially with items locked behind each and every type of specialist craft.

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It's their mechanism to make specialist crafting work after all the complaints about it. It's also a way to more or less force players to diversify their crafting instead of everyone specializing in the same 3 crafts the same way that the zeta quest items required different desynth mats forcing a diversification of desynthing skills.

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Originally Posted by winsock

^ the only difference between this opinion and the ppl who disagree with you is that this opinion is yours. Your opinion is no better or worse then anyone else commenting here. Its just hard to see that from atop a pedestal.

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Atma grind in 2.x: random fate drops in 12 different areas that required you to have your weapon equipped. The drop rate was very low.
Atma grind in 3.15: random fate drops in different areas. You don't have to be in the job you're doing the relic for, so you can level up alts while you do it. The drop rate is higher than 2.x atmas.

Dungeon grind in 2.x: you had to do one dungeon and five trials to start your relic, you had to grind 27 dungeons for Animus, and then grind 16 dungeons for Zodiac, which would drop some item at a low chance.
Dungeon grind in 3.15: 10 dungeons, from which 6 you can do undersized.

Light farm in 2.x: 2000 light points. Average light per minute was 2, with bonus. Required you to have a relic equipped.
Token farm in 3.15: you can grind stuff with alts. Maximum number of runs is less than 800.

Crafted items in 2.x: 16 HQ crafted items which required melded crafted gear and access to special books and desynth mats.
Crafted items in 3.15: 16 HQ crafted items which require specialists in evey job. Base mats are easier to gather by level 60 gatherers.

But it's just my opinion when I say the grind is not painful. I have 0 knowledge of this game and I haven't done the previous relic without nerfs (irony)

And yes, I named several different steps for the 2.x relic, and all of those are present at the start of the 3.15 relic. However, it took more than one patch for the old relic to match the Binding Coil weapon, and the 3.15 relic is doing it at its default state, so we're talking about a condensed version of three stages of the old relic.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

I read and read and all I see is "I'm entitled! I'm entitled!". No. You're. Not.

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that's not what is being said at all. And you know something? Paying a subscription DOES entitle me to being able to post here and say whatever is on my mind. Go away, you <insert derogative here> you.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

But it's just my opinion when I say the grind is not painful. I have 0 knowledge of this game and I haven't done the previous relic without nerfs (irony)

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Honestly, pre-nerf 2.0 relic was way worse than this stuff. Of course, I skipped the first quest.. 3 times *cough* for 3 differant relics *cough* (I'm sorry lol). I beleive people are making a moutain out of a mole-hill as far as difficulty. The only thing I have problems with, is the lack of actual interesting content. Many people have said this, and that, to me is the only thing missing from the quest chain. No Hydra, no Chimera, no other trials.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

It's their mechanism to make specialist crafting work after all the complaints about it. It's also a way to more or less force players to diversify their crafting instead of everyone specializing in the same 3 crafts the same way that the zeta quest items required different desynth mats forcing a diversification of desynthing skills.

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All I've ever seen on the crafter forums are people complaining that specialist skills are useless, not that they want more specialist crafts. All this is really doing is encouraging high prices by reducing the number of people that can undercut to bring prices down to reasonable levels.

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Originally Posted by Montlee

All I've ever seen on the crafter forums are people complaining that specialist skills are useless, not that they want more specialist crafts. All this is really doing is encouraging high prices by reducing the number of people that can undercut to bring prices down to reasonable levels.

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Only suggestion I have to fix the specialist being useless is just release multiple high leveled crafted battle set that requires specialist skills to make, ones that if geared out in the right materia will be more powerful than the current BiS armor pieces. You know, like the crafted sets we had back throughout the 2.x patches.

I'm done with this game.

I've been bored even before 3.15 and I thought the anima weapon quest would rejuvenate the game for me. Little did I know that it would be another broken promises with another copy-paste massive grind fest that was almost identical to the original relic. I don't know if SE would even bother reading this, but FATE forced grind is an archaic requirements that needs to be dragged out and shot. I'm voting with my wallet and I have better things to do than this stupid messed up quest design. I hate FATE to begin with and just reading through stage 3 requirements...yeah those are not my idea of fun.

And to think it was delayed for 5 months only to be given this garbage. Great fucking job Square...you wanted to make relics more accessible than before and you ended up alienating your mature working player base.