Link to this?Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
All what i know is that it will not be able to overmeld with main stats anymore, but still with secondary stats.
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11-13-2015, 02:49 AMFelis
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11-13-2015, 02:49 AMDerio
The time it would take in there to get full 210 is insane. So I dont know what the OP is talking about with people gearing up full 210 within 2 weeks.
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11-13-2015, 02:54 AMFelisMaybe with a daily premade 5 hour grind party, with very strict drop rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derio
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11-13-2015, 02:57 AMFyceHow much "time and investment" does it take to gear 8 people with full Diadem gear (implying "better stats than Gordian/Eso")?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude
The fact is that there's a chance that you might never get something from the Diadem better than what you can have with Gordian/Eso. You might never be able to fill some equipment slot with that pink gear, no matter how much "effort" you put in farming. Therefore, speaking of Eso/Gordian as becoming irrelevant because of the Diadem is completly false.
You absolutly cannot make BiS predictions accounting Diadem gear since you can't guarantee getting it for 3.2 at all. The safest bet is still to get the Gordian BiS to be sure that you'll have the best reliable thing for the next raid tier.
Besires, AS is 5 months old. If you don't think it's was worth it for the achievement, title, mount, minion and best gear 5-months exclusivity, then it comes down to a subjective argument where your felling of "being worth it" will varies greatly from someone else who might think that their special snowflake time has lasted long enough. -
11-13-2015, 02:57 AMzosiaGo check the live letter where they talked about melding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
Even with 5 grade V materia, you will not be able to overcome some of the stat rolls on diadem gear. There is also stat caps on meldable gear, so putting this hope on sockets re-balancing everything is just snake oil unless SE states otherwise.
It's not even about that. Raiders always prep for the next content patch that includes an actual new raid. I hate feeling like I HAVE to grind diadem to be competitive in the next raid patch. The worst part is that it is all RNG based, so there is no guarantee that my effort will buy me any advantage and the luckiest raid group will be able to do so much more in terms of performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyce
Pull your head out of your butt and understand that people care about this for a myriad of reasons. Go put that poor strawman in the closest, it needs a break. -
11-13-2015, 03:03 AMAlkimiStop looking at those brd pants, they're not even real. The amount of secondary stats you can have on diadem gear is capped and come 3.2 anything 210+ with even 1 materia slot will be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
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11-13-2015, 03:06 AMzosiaI don't even need to ref those brd pants ( and I never ref them) to make my argument. There is plenty of proof of diadem gear having more stats than any other gear in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkimi
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11-13-2015, 03:16 AMKallera
Im glad, we all have things to do in Diadem, i would hate to have alex savage be the only endgame content people refer to for 8 months. The current trends of gear being only one set of identical stats needed to be blown out of the water, imo.
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11-13-2015, 03:25 AMMaero
Actually some of the Diadem gear is bis, and better then eso. Then again much of the eso gear does not have good stats at all. But good luck with the rng.
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11-13-2015, 03:30 AMFyceThe fact that you have to farm the Diadem absolutly doesn't invalidate my point. If you don't get your Diadem gear, i210 Eso/Gordian will still remain the best, therefore, there's still is an incentive to go raiding if you want to keep a safety net for 3.2.Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
Besides, the part you bolded in the quote was to answer to the "it's not worth it for 5 months exclusivity only", so it has nothing to do with your answer. I have no idea why you bolded that part if you're not gonna answer on the matter. As you said "people care about this for a myriad of reasons", and that bolded part was to comment on one of them.
Good job completly failing to properly answer and still asking me to "pull my head out of my butt" while saying that I was putting a strawman. -
11-13-2015, 03:31 AMrappa
For bards, any neck or ring with crit is better than eso/gordian.
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11-13-2015, 03:32 AMXairos
Don't we all have many different, horizontal options for endgame gear now?
Alex ; Void ; Eso Upgrades ; Diadem
And of those, isnt Alex still the most reliable?
Didn't we ask for more gameplay options since people were unsubbing because of just needing to do Savage? -
11-13-2015, 03:42 AMMasamuneBranfordI think the main problem with this game is that it is an absolute FACT that certain gear is the bis for ALL situations. Everything is based on stats. If the weapons / armor had perks (in which Diadem gear had unique perks, raid gear had unique perks, pvp gear had unique perks and so on) and those perks made a particular piece of gear the best piece of gear in a SPECIFIC situation - then there would be incentive to play everything. But being that the weapons are purely stat based - it's logical that people will only go for the best stat gear. It's the biggest flaw this game has. This game NEEDS perks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xairos
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11-13-2015, 03:47 AMKeluBehemoth
If you wanted to put Diadem on Farm I can tell you it would take probably as long to get a good 210 piece as it would to get something to drop in Savage. Which is guaranteed.
Ive obtained about 3-4 210 pieces and 2 for my main class. I threw away one of them and the other I would replace in a heart beat with an upgraded Eso Ring.
Getting something with decent stats is one thing but getting something thats going to trump raid gear is going to be a huge gamble.
Either way, I like that this is a fun way to grind tomes, offers the "possibility" of gaining something good so theres that little bit of a "oh it could be this time", requires organization and overall is pretty fun.
I hope they continue to build on the Diadem system and dont make it dead content by offering useless sub par gear. -
11-13-2015, 03:58 AMKhemorex
/wayne :P still have better stuff to do then to farm the diadem all the time ^^
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11-13-2015, 04:05 AMNoxifer
So far, I've gotten a couple of i180 pieces better than the upgraded Law (potentially on par with or better than the i190), but of the i210 pieces that I've seen drop, only two have been worth keeping, other than to possibly up your ilvl for requirements (but it'd feel like cheating just as much as putting tank accessories on my caster just to get higher ilvl). One of those had more substats than the eso or AS gear, but I don't remember the numbers on each substat, so it might not be as OP as it looked at first glance.
This has been the FC normal mode, though. It might be that you get more i210 drops in hard mode, and that the odds thus get better to get something worthwhile per run, but it still takes a lot of grinding ^^; -
11-13-2015, 04:25 AMMeridaQWhen the new meldable raid gear drops it will be i230+ just with the primary stats it will be significantly better than any i210 diadem gear, even w/ the secondary stats being bad. Then on top of that doing any melds for useful stats will make them exponentially better than any diadem gear. So don't worry too much, it's normal for gear progression yes this makes our eso and Alex gear less valuable, but it's also 5 months old.Quote:
Originally Posted by zosia
FYI diadem gear is random, BUT capped on the secondary stats equivalent to the upgraded eso/Alex. I.e 210 gear across the board has only a set member of stat points given. Example 210 earrings give 47 dex, 30acc, 44ss. Diadem dex would give 47 dex and 74 of any other secondary stats in total and each stat is capped on what you could normal get from 210 eso. So if you got SS you could only get 44 at max and 30 stats would be allocated elsewhere. -
11-13-2015, 04:36 AMWelsper59
I look at it as a positive change from what we're used to in an effort to promote more activity when it comes to horizontal progression, something this game somewhat lacked. It's patch 3.1. Ignoring the extended period between 3.0 and 3.1, there would have been a decent amount of time for people to beat AS1-4, and those still doing it can use Diadem as a possible means to help them along the way. If you'd rather forget about AS and simply spend all your time farming Diadem, then that's fine too. I think the devs understand that point, given how small of a percentage of players can actually complete Savage anything between raid tiers. Savage is/was generally not meant for the majority of the playerbase, even though people delude themselves into thinking it is.
Without Diadem, we have VA for guaranteed i200 gear that is rather useful, we have tomes for i200 weapons/armors readily available, KotR for i205 weapons, and we have upgrade items to make those i200 into i210 easily available (weapons being an exception to the upgrade), all readily here without stepping into AS and more or less along the lines of what we would have called "normal" from ARR. The existence of Diadem is not as detrimental to AS as people seem to think. I think the fact that so many people failed was proof that many people simply do not belong there initially (as in right off the bat of patch release). YOU might, but it doesn't mean your raid members do. A lot of people need the gear to give them that edge. Without it, and the failures to come, you'd have just given up anyway, leaving AS to rot... just like "the sky is falling" attitude about how Diadem affects AS. It's just how it works.
The Diadem gear simply gives people that additional edge to gearing up in a catch-up patch. That's it. Whatever you do with it is up to you. If you are/were progressing through AS, then it's up to you and your raid to decide if you want to just give up because it's too hard, or actually finish what you started. Most people, realistically, would just give up. Likewise, most people delude themselves into thinking obtaining the BiS is a guarantee or high probability, which it isn't... at all. RNG is not your bitch, quite the opposite actually, and unless you craft or gather, I suspect you'll learn that soon enough. I mean think about it, the likelihood of getting the BiS version of Diadem is rather small... as in you'd probably luck out penta-melding a ring without a single failure more often than you would get that BiS, much less be decked out in the stuff. Even if, by some miracle, you do get decked out in BiS Diadem stuff within a week, chances are practically no one else on your server is, because that's how RNG works in this game. There is still reason to do AS, and it's hardly any different than it was before Diadem gear. Diadem is simply horizontal progression gear with a insignificant chance of being BiS. It's content to cater to everyone until 3.2. When 3.2 hits, with those materia changes, well... we're in for something new again most likely. -
11-13-2015, 04:40 AMAlahra
I wanna get into some of these groups getting multiple 210 pieces per run. So far I've only seen 1 or 2 per run, though I haven't been farming it nonstop or anything.
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11-13-2015, 04:44 AMSpookyGhost
People are completely missing the point of why Diadem is broken. It's not that you can get extremely good gear from it if you get super lucky on the secondary stat rolls. It's that you can get i210 gear without a weekly lockout. Why raid? Why do Void Ark? Why do dungeons or cap Esoterics? Just farm Diadem and you'll find yourself in full i210 in no time.
Besides Diadem, the only relevant content is Thordan EX and A4S due to the weapon drops. But once the relic comes out or the weapon upgrade thing is added to Void Ark, that content is invalidated too.
Diadem basically has the original Hunt problem, but to a larger degree. I posted this in another topic but apparently that topic got deleted or something. -
11-13-2015, 04:58 AMKalleraQuote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
"No time" assuming the rng is gracious in the chest, the loot, which slot, the stats, your roll...and there will likely be better regardless.
You're looking a lot of 90 minutes, and a patient party to get bis everywhere. Even more so if you are going in pick up groups. If you are at that point with esos and perhaps a1s, mixing diadem gear with other 200,210 gear would be just as good to get you ready for 3.2's scene...which will also have activities to get people raising their ilvl and ready for raiding in 3.2, so why worry? -
11-13-2015, 05:01 AMIagainstihttps://media.giphy.com/media/c4IJ3zPP5CA1O/giphy.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
/who cares have fun -
11-13-2015, 05:10 AMNekodar
Diadem is fun if played in a party rather than joining a zerg for chainpulling...
And it does not invalidate other content at all, unless the only thing you want is the chance to get BiS gear.
What do you even want the BiS gear for?
I'm doing diadem mainly for esoterics, pegasus and fun with my fc. If I happen to get Mistbreak gear that is better than what I wear currently, that's just a bonus. -
11-13-2015, 05:26 AMMutemutt
Honestly, I do find it a bit discouraging how easy it is to get really good gear from there compared to everything else in the game.
I wonder if it really needed i210 gear in the first place. I mean, I'd still want to run it for materia, the mount and gathering materials. -
11-13-2015, 05:28 AMWhiteroomProbably wanted good gear because the design is about as boring as they could have made it. Good drops is the only reason to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutemutt
I really hope someone discovers some hidden thing that people can work togeather using both combat and gathering skills to spawn a super boss or something. -
11-13-2015, 05:36 AMDerio
Considering the amount of time you are in there, most groups are in there the full time or close to it while void ark and others are less than 45 minutes assuming no wipes. Perhaps void ark and crafting will come into play better once 3.15 hits with relic weapons.
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11-13-2015, 05:36 AMStouterTaruHell what's the point of this expansion at all? Just unsub for a year or so until the next expansion. The level cap will be higher and they will hand out better gear than anything from 3.x in the MSQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by rappa
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11-13-2015, 05:40 AMAlmalexiaYou don't press a button for 90 minutes and walk out with full i210. You have to wade through vast swamps of undesirable trash before you attain a piece of gear that meets or exceeds gear of comparable ilvl for a job you even care about.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
You're overselling this if you think it's a replacement for stat-locked items. Only no-lifer, haado core, elitist jackoffs like myself will get full i210 in a week and declare the game dead. -
11-13-2015, 05:46 AMFevelle
I'm loving to see all the rage towards Diadem. First people raged towards Alex NM gear, then raged against the Void Ark items to upgrade Eso and now they are raging at Diadem gear. This only serves to prove that some of the high-end players don't have the minimal consideration towards the casual playerbase.
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11-13-2015, 05:47 AMCosmicKirbyIf Alex Savage 3 and 4 weren't so absurdly difficult, I'd agree. As it is, I think a disproportionately large amount of groups will find that grinding time in Diadem will be far preferable to grinding attempts on A3S and A4S. The gear could possibly be better, it's far easier, it takes about about the same amount of time, and it's far more lucrative for most players, being able to sell materia and mats for money and not having to worry about potions/food.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xairos
I certainly like the option, I just feel that there needs to be more benefits to Raiding if this model continues in the future, (which I hope it does). -
11-13-2015, 05:53 AMSpookyGhostI guess everyone took "no time" literally then. I remember now why I stopped arguing in that other thread. I'll be on my way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almalexia
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11-13-2015, 05:58 AMMeridaQYes that is true, but that is also kinda of what we wanted. We wanted explorations to be fun and relevant, also most of the "relevant" content is 5 months old. I will still be raiding because it's fun to play with my friends, as for the whole be i210 really quick. First why not? Content still has mechanics and hard fights will still be hard. Explorations were not designed for the elite raiders it wad designed for everyone. Two a lot of people don't play to get their ilvl up, the appeal to do content for many is the experience. I think diadem is great and will run it for the fun, mats and to round out my gear. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
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11-13-2015, 06:24 AMRadiantRay
I don't know as a person who actually raids and is still trying to progess through Savage Alexander I feel that the diadem gear is a bit discouraging to continue running previous tiers of Alexander you've already beaten for gear that almost always never seem to drop. I can't really form an opinion yet on diadem since I never ran it before yet (yeah I know :c), but if what people are saying is true then I really don't mind grinding diadem instead of previous tiers of Alexander I already beaten and just go straight to practicing A3S with my static instead. I just need to try diadem for like a month to see how rare these godly 210 drops are but the weekly lockout on Savage drops (even if you don't even get anything) is just.....ugh I can't even put in words my disgust with this system.
Also what's up with some people in this thread assuming all raiders are elistist bad people anyway? -
11-13-2015, 06:33 AMMature
If you don't do savage what is the problem of getting 210 somewhere else? I still remember when people cried when twinecoat was introduced into hunting... People cry and cry and cry over the fact that casuals could get this higher upgrades without doing coil.
This time is a different story. Alex savage is OPTIONAL so you don't have to do it unless you really want to. The Diadem is fantastic way to carry on raiding for something that is accessible to EVERYONE. -
11-13-2015, 06:38 AMIagainstiQuote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
https://media.giphy.com/media/Vc5x1pG5RFH3O/giphy.gif -
11-13-2015, 06:58 AMLadonBecause you don't need those kind of stats to do the content and this just introduces a bigger problem with power creep that they are already struggling with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mature
No only that but it just introduced more redundancy while they complain that they don't have the dev resources to do things in the game they would like. Taking steps to remove that redundancy would be a better direction to take the game, not add even more. -
11-13-2015, 06:59 AMAlmalexiaIf I got lucky enough, I could walk out of Alexander Savage with full i210 in 2-3 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
If I got lucky enough, I could walk out of Diadem with full i210 in "no time."
What are you getting at? -
11-13-2015, 07:00 AMFevelleThe ones who have to decide if we need or not need good equips are the devs and ourselves. Not the raider playerbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladon
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11-13-2015, 07:00 AMMeridaQNot really sure what you are meaning here. No one is saying elite players are bad, unless I missed something. My comment about elite raiders was just stating a fact elite skilled players were only a part of the group considered when designing the diadem. This doesn't mean they are bad, that would be self deprecating because I raid too. I am glad they added more content more options for everyone because slushy man is a jerk and it's refreshing to do something else. Can't wait to get my i205 axe. Diadem doesn't feel grindy the 90 minutes flies by, so have fun. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantRay
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11-13-2015, 07:02 AMDenebPunkinProbably because you got caught and couldnt face the shame of being wrong =D.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
^_^. We arent mind readers... we can only base our understanding on what you wrote.. and using "no time" the way did resulted in people responding accordingly.