/p Blood Price used, WHMs do not use Holy for 15 seconds <se.1>

I play as war and i don't get what is the situation, but i don't see often Whm spam holy at pull, but often later,
i say the same the healer dps is high, maybe get the hate with unleash and use later Daing AD +blood price to finish the mob
Even if i think many whm think the same and use Aoe spamming in time to get the mob killed, just because it mean, i swap to cleric stance and if i do this i don't get to heal again because the mob is died.

Your problem is certainly to know if your whm will dps in cleric stance ,clear the cleric stance and heal or the other case: he will heal and use cleric stance to finish the mob.
Not all the whm act the same, don't use your maccro ask to the whm if he will dps early after pull or to achieve the mob.
try also to push dps later, when the whm dps early on pull

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

From a WHM PoV :

for your precious blood price".

---

Bold was uncalled for, but I'll bite.

This all assumes YOU are the WHM. I have no idea if the healer is going to do these things or not. It is such a mixed bag, where as DRK even the bad ones will be using bloodprice because they want their MPs back. lol

And I have no idea if people were arguing about AD vs Holy damage, cuz honestly I don't give two craps or a toot about the DPS there, if Holy damage is determining the speed of a run(Damage wise) by more than a min or 2 then the party has larger issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

I admit I'm not intimately familiar with the inner workings of a DRK, so I gotta ask :
Can it not be done the opposite as well? DRK chill on his MP, while let us WHMs unleash holy on Earth on those mobs?

Any WHM worth his/her salt will be able to pace themselves nicely and have sufficient MP for every single pull (and we don't have to rely on outside factors as well!! Unlike the problems you DRKs seem to be having where Holy = No MP = sad DRK).

---

Drk can indeed chill on MP besides the nonstop drain of darkside unless they turn it off, which they shouldn't because the little damage boost helps with enmity generation. Every aoe coming out of dark costs MP though. And blood price is the best/fastest way to get the return. Basically I think they meant for dark to have a "FEED ME" vibe to it. BRING THE PAIN BRING THE DARKNESS etc.. that just my interpretation of how it plays though.

Communication is key no?
Do you not ask your party whether to go for speed runs?
Why not go the extra mile and ask the WHM what's he's gonna do?
Performing SRs without proper communcation will often result in disaster, so "I have no idea if the healer is going to do these things or not" is due to lack of communcation, and should be treated as a separate issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Communication is key no?
Do you not ask your party whether to go for speed runs?
Why not go the extra mile and ask the WHM what's he's gonna do?
Performing SRs without proper communcation will often result in disaster, so "I have no idea if the healer is going to do these things or not" is due to lack of communcation, and should be treated as a separate issue.

---

LOL have you tried talking to people in DF? half the time I'm lucky if I get a "hello" let alone communication. (maybe im just unlucky)

also this wasn't a speed run that I was referring too, it was library, for my specific example.

As far as speed runs go I always run with my wife on healer and me on tank because both of us can't stand the randomness, of coarse with our luck we always get bad dps then we change to dps and we like get the worst tank or healer in the world lol

Then once in a while, just every so often we get a really good group and im like "ah... GLORIOUS!" at the end of it.

If it's not SR, don't tanks do what tanks do normally do when pulling small packs? You AoE a few times to establish aggro, then start comboing, and I'm pretty sure a DRK should have something like Riot Blade from PLD to recover MP no?

Anyway my initial response is not aimed directly at you, its to inform the general public of my opinion why it's better for a WHM to Holy earlier rather than later.
Somebody else mentioned as well, Holy stun lasts 7 seconds, why not just pop your Blood Price after those 7 seconds are up?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

If it's not SR, don't tanks do what tanks do normally do when pulling small packs? You AoE a few times to establish aggro, then start comboing, and I'm pretty sure a DRK should have something like Riot Blade from PLD to recover MP no?

Anyway my initial response is not aimed directly at you, its to inform the general public of my opinion why it's better for a WHM to Holy earlier rather than later.
Somebody else mentioned as well, Holy stun lasts 7 seconds, why not just pop your Blood Price after those 7 seconds are up?

---

Yes they do, usually on a smaller pack its like unleash twice and go full on into MP combo and soul eater.

Very similar to other tanks. (Well... at least pld, flash / riot.) blood price is basically drks equivalent to pld's sheltron only more potent because they spend more MP and minus the block bit.

Only using DA with DP or the like when you have the MP to spare, the problem is really isolated to larger packs or if your DPS out gear you which is where Holy would come into play, but you are right absolutely right it is a communication thing or a lack of knowing the other classes from the other player that usually causes these issues. In my specific situation, i had an antsy WHM and I was never able to recover fully from the MP starve ,they kept just running on in ahead of me (which i know is not normal) basically forcing me into spending more MP when I never had a chance to recover.

You can totally pop it after holy, I was more referring to if it is already up there is no reason not to wait or just not holy if it looks like the DRK is low on mp. The whole party can see the MP bar and the buff from bloodprice, so my point was , why would you intentionally stomp it. I know when I'm playing healer at least my eyes are mostly glued to that list.

It is kind of like as a tank why would you intentionally pull another pack if your healers MP is starved? (and god i know some of them do) I know when I play as tank personally I try to like pause if I'm worried about the healers MP and ask if its ok to keep going (in random groups) Like wise now that I have played dark I would try to watch for if the drk was having problems.. god off topic but that is the glorious things about playing all these jobs is you get to see that stuff when you play it and remember it for later when your playing with that roll.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

I admit I'm not intimately familiar with the inner workings of a DRK, so I gotta ask :
Can it not be done the opposite as well? DRK chill on his MP, while let us WHMs unleash holy on Earth on those mobs?

---

I do have a geared DRK on my alt so can answer this.

The entirely of DRK AoE threat generation is dependant on MP. While it''s not particularly hard to grab a lead on emnity against a healer, please also remember that a DRK may well have to DA an Abyssal Drain or two during the Holy Spam if they have a Caster that wants to win a Darwin Award. I've had a particularly obnoxious Summoner that required me to be using Abyssal Drain on packs of 3 purely for the extra emnity, because I had to deal with the AoE spam while empty on MP because the WHM in turn was also spamming Holy like a lunatic and I must have found that one bloody Bard that realised you can have Foes' and Minuet up at the same time.

Of course the above is all solved with effective party communication, or even switching composition (because let's face it, queuing even Experts solo is an exercise in frustration). It is also rendered completely redundant in endgame anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rahal

I do have a geared DRK on my alt so can answer this.

The entirely of DRK AoE threat generation is dependant on MP. While it''s not particularly hard to grab a lead on emnity against a healer, please also remember that a DRK may well have to DA an Abyssal Drain or two during the Holy Spam if they have a Caster that wants to win a Darwin Award. I've had a particularly obnoxious Summoner that required me to be using Abyssal Drain on packs of 3 purely for the extra emnity, because I had to deal with the AoE spam while empty on MP because the WHM in turn was also spamming Holy like a lunatic and I must have found that one bloody Bard that realised you can have Foes' and Minuet up at the same time.

Of course the above is all solved with effective party communication, or even switching composition (because let's face it, queuing even Experts solo is an exercise in frustration). It is also rendered completely redundant in endgame anyway.

---

Off topic : LOL this is the exact reason I am afraid to get my SMNs 200 weapon. Even with quelling I peel crap all the time just doing normal rotations. (in DF groups) Well that, and I don't raid with my SMN so no point in getting a better one. Least not yet.

honestly this shouldnt be a big issue if your doing a big pull just go in start abyssal spam should have enough mp for 5-6 of them (carve and spit should be used for mp in aoe after your at around 2k mp throw on blood price by then the healer should stop any holy reguardless whether they have room for it or not as its more mp efficent to either heal or aero 3 stone 3 at that point and should have no trouble ending every pull with roughly 4k mp which is more then enough to get back to full mp for the next pull or boss.

that being said if a healer decides hes gonna screw a drk out of mp cause he wants to holy when he wants i for one have no trouble wasting time after the pull to get enough mp for the next pull which in the end will take MUCH LONGER.

The Blood Price/Holy debacle should really only be an issue for the first pull.

If I pop Blood Price and see the WHM start their Holy spam, I chide myself because the healer is going above and beyond providing DPS. I typically wait in the future pulls for the stun lock before throwing it on, and avoid using too many AD's or DA for for the 10ish seconds it takes for stun resist to form on the mobs.

Alternatively, if I'm on WHM, I tend to swap out to Blizzard II if I notice the DRK is going to pull with Blood Price regardless of the fact I'm trying to DPS.

The real message here is: Be flexible. It's not about whether Blood Price is more important than Holy or vice versa. It's about being a good team member.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carbonx

It's not about whether Blood Price is more important than Holy or vice versa. It's about being a good team member.

---

Exactly, thanks for putting it into better words than I.

Responses/questions in bold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

From a WHM PoV :
It is way easier to start an AoE pull with Holy compared to "wait 15 seconds for your precious Blood Price" then Holy. I'm sorry you had a bad experience in the DF with a DRK. I've had a bad experience in the DF with literally every job in this game at one time or another. It'll pass.

At the start :
1) You have stoneskin up. With you maybe, but not every WHM in the DF. I've even met WHM's that refuse to SS because "lol it'll just fall off" yet I'm not judging you for the dregs of the folks that happen to have rolled the same job. Not every WHM in the DF even uses Holy consistently. Not every WHM uses Holy a handful of times at the start and then shuts it off like a faucet. Some drop it once, then again 15 seconds later. Its pretty erratic. Which is to be expected- you're a healer, and shit can happen that diverts your attention from a DPS rotation. But I will ALWAYS use BP. Its part of my job to keep it on CD unless there's only 2 or 3 mobs left that are close to death, or saving it a couple seconds for a unique situation like Living Liquid or the first boss of Fractal that can hit you many separate times in quick succession. Stun locking things at every opportunity is great, normally, but with me, it can waste a cooldown.
2) Most tanks pop mitigation during the end of the pull, right before the AoE hell is unleashed. Yes, as do DRKs. Between this and AD self-heals I'm typically able to survive without everything being AoE stunned. I know this because WHM is not the only healer in this game and SCHs/ASTs have been able to keep me alive with no problem through similarly large pulls without immediate spamming of an AoE stun.
3) With proper timing, Holy will land the moment everything is gathered (means those mobs lagging behind won't have a chance to attack the tank and is stunned straight away). So now there's a stray stunned out of my melee range, I'm tanking 7 other things that the DPS are going ham on, and unable to AoE... this won't end poorly at all.

After "15 seconds for your precious blood price" :
1) No more stoneskin. I appreciate the Stoneskin, but I don't think I'll be dead instantaneously without it.
2) No more mitigation (You can pop more, but good luck with the next pull!!) In A2S I have at least 1 CD up for almost 100% of the latter half of the fight. I think in a dungeon with 10-20s of downtime between the last kill of the previous pull and me gathering the mobs into position for the next, I'll be just fine.
3) Everything and its mother is hitting you at full force. Actually no. Any experienced DRK would not inflict that on his healer. We've got your back- After AD spam/self-healing during which I have BP and usually Shadowskin/Wall up, the very next thing I do after BP falls off usually is pop DA DD and/or DA DP and start dodging everything, plus maybe something piddly like Foresight or Awareness if stuff isn't close to dying just yet. This is assuming I had BP up for that time, and I'm usually left with close to full MP if I've been tanking a large pull and thus have the MP to DA those CDs, and who am I doing that for? Why, you, that's who. The MP isn't just for me, you see, but for you as well.

And for those that believe your AD spam > Holy Spam damage, that's nonsense and any non mathematically challenged person can see that. No one said that, or at least I didn't. However I can spam AD for about 6-8 casts. I dunno many WHMs that drop that many Holys. But more power to you if you do. Forget about random DF twits. My question to you is, if I am otherwise tanking a dungeon with you, expertly, (big pulls, stuff is dying fast, CDs are being popped, hate being kept, I'm not dying, you're able to DPS) and I'm pulling a huge wad of trash (using stuff that costs MP) and getting it into position whilst sitting on about half my remaining MP, and you see me pop BP, to start regenerating that MP to do AoE damage and maintain hate and self-heal and just generally manage the core mechanic of my job why would you practically spit in my face and start stunning everything, putting your brief (though admittedly powerful) AoE burst over my ability to play my job optimally in every sense- resource management, enmity, damage, self-healing, and mitigation?

---

As for "precious blood price" I'd say it is pretty precious seeing as its half of our MP management while tanking (the other half being Syphon Strike) and thus an essential ingredient to playing the job properly. Holy is awesome, but you aren't breaking your job's gameplay to hold off on it for a short period of time. All this is to say BP is far more of a mechanically pivotal skill to DRK than Holy is to WHM. If the DRK is putting BP up and then you start stunning everything, who's the one being deliberately antagonistic in that scenario? Every DRK with even the feeblest grasp of their job's mechanics is going to do this and no tank is going to assume every WHM is going to use the same Holy burst rotation if they use it at all, which varies greatly depending on people's gear and the size of the pull whereas the usage of Blood Price is consistent in every scenario.

But alas, as the post above mine states, this is in fact about working together as a team, and this entire thread only has relevance in dungeons, not in any meaningful content, so the adjustments people make for each other are honestly the most miniscule of sacrifices.

ermm just turn off darkside between pulls if mp is low.

yeah blood price is important to mp regen and aoe but if you aren't thinking about ending the pull on or towards full mp then you are running dungeons wrong.

or

last couple of mobs left just use syphon strike a few times dropping soul eater from the combo, use carve and spit and if up use soul survivor. click of darkside on last few hits to help on mp regen if needed then as approaching new pack click it back on just outside of next pulls first target.


there is zero need to restrict anyone's dps, and there is no way you should have enmity issues against the threat being generated even with grit off.


and yeah no need for more annoying macros in this game,

Lol derp knights

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chidarake

if you aren't thinking about ending the pull on or towards full mp then you are running dungeons wrong.

---

Is this even possible on DRK? lol

It is one thing to blow your MP when you see stuns going off and expecting bloodprice to save you next pack.

It is another entirely, to be in the middle of spending MP while BP is up and then having someone come interrupt when you have just spent the MP. (leaving you in a pretty vulnerable situation, since now you are low, siphon might not be enough to hold off those casters etc..) If I just did a DA AD with BP up, and that process is already going through and someone comes in and stuns at the exact moment when it is spent. That just sucks, especially considering all the information is available on screen at that time VIA Party list -- MP and Buffs. (and just to clarify, at least in my example C&S was not available at level 59)

Your points are valid though, under normal circumstances.

But ya, on topic, no macros please.

Might as well add in what happens on BLM (My main) with the typical Pick Up Group Holy Spammer. I have to change my rotation to this:

Fire III > Quelling Strikes > Begin AoE rotation > Stun resist kicks in > Return to start because the WHM is still spamming Holy and thinks thier Personal DPS is more important than the Group DPS > watch the DRK and WHM bicker over who "caused" the wipe and try to get each other kicked > Leave and use the 30 mins to go play MGVs for a bit then return to queue as healer.

People underestimate just how ridiculously easy it is to pull aggro from any tank as a Caster. There are three other party members in the group. Just talk to each other and communicate. The DPS would like both of you to stop your e-peen flailing contest and do your jobs properly. It's nearly up there with DPS running parsers in trivial content with "Obnoxious things to do in a dungeon".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rahal

Might as well add in what happens on BLM.... *snip*

---

:O have you actually experienced people bickering over this during a run? If so that's a bummer. :(

Wish people could come play with my wife and I , just bring the deeps, we get it done. lol (Lol sorry kinda bored right now, usually playing at this time.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imoen

Is this even possible on DRK? lol


It is one thing to blow your MP when you see stuns going off and expecting bloodprice to save you next pack.

It is another entirely, to be in the middle of spending MP while BP is up and then having someone come interrupt when you have just spent the MP. (leaving you in a pretty vulnerable situation, since now you are low, siphon might not be enough to hold off those casters etc..) If I just did a DA AD with BP up, and that process is already going through and someone comes in and stuns at the exact moment when it is spent. That just sucks, especially considering all the information is available on screen at that time VIA Party list -- MP and Buffs. (and just to clarify, at least in my example C&S was not available at level 59)

Your points are valid though, under normal circumstances.

But ya, on topic, no macros please.

---

I guess I should clarify heading towards full mp at beginning of next trash pack rather than finishing on full mp. which is totally doable in all circumstances barring personal screw ups and burning unnecessary mp at the end of the fight which I have done a few times.

also 3-4 unleashes is enough threat to hold of casters enough to not worry to much but I agree getting blood price nullified for potentially the first 10secs of it isn't great but it isn't enough to worry about in my experience as it doesn't take many hits to get your mp back to a reasonable amount so the last 5secs is usually enough when followed up by the suggestions I mentioned above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chidarake

SNIP````*Adding extra text because apparently it isn't enough pre edit!*

---

Indeed, under normal circumstances it isn't an issue like I said.

Stuff does happen though, and unfortunately I've been in a few of them. After running PLD, holding hate on DRK felt so much easier to me, even EASIER on WAR... well war and drk are pretty close for the "feel" of enmity generation. DRK mp does scare the crap out of me, doesn't take much to put a wrench in it. In my example run; people were rushing me through before I could recover MP darkside down etc...(I wanted to generate before next pulls, just the outgoing demand of threat from the aoe dps + stun spam left me in a really crappy spot.) We got through it though, no bad words or ill will, no death, just wasn't a pleasant DRK experience.

I was mostly coming at a stance of "why the hell would you intentionally stomp on someones toes when all that information is right in front of you?" Plus I think it is good to know the rolls as much as possible, and in this case DRK is heavily reliant on mp and BP is a major generator for resources, like equilibrium (tp or hp) and less so - sheltron (mp)

Again if you see a DRK struggling with MP for whatever reason why would you go out of the way to make it harder? Know what I'm saying?

Just seems like a basic "common sense/ general battle awareness" thing to me, much like making sure your healer can handle large packs or making sure the healer has mp, or that the dps have enough tp, or dodging aoes, watching debuffs etc...

Your points though, like I said are all valid.

(just bored and making conversation) lol

Have you heard about the SMN/SCH/Bard complaints b4?
Where they think you have pulled everything and settled on a spot, so they cast their AoE DoTs on those places, only for you to suddenly move away? Now they sigh and have to recast their Shadow Flare, or in a Bard's case, cry.

It's pretty similar for a WHM, before any Happy Holy Days, majority of us will Divine Seal Regen + Asylum the MT, and in my personal case, Swift Cast and start raining Holy Hell.

So imagine I divine Sealed Regen + Asylum you already, and then you popped Blood Price, guess I should just sulk and spam Cure I on you then =\.

The point I want to make is, we have our own preparation to perform before Holy Bomb can commence, it's not as simple as some of you make it "just delay your holy bombs if you see Blood Price!!".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

a bunch of really bitter text

---

Who exactly are you addressing here?

This has probably been covered but:

It doesn't really matter what the correct way to go about it is, a WHM is going to Holy spam at the start of the pull if they plan to Holy spam at all. Just delay your Blood Prince a bit to see what your WHM is going to do and then go from there. As mentioned, it takes some prep work before Holy spam starts, so a macro at the start of the pull isn't going to help - I'd recommend just telling them at the start of the dungeon.

Wouldn't be surprised if half of the white mages don't even know what blood price is or how it works. Passive aggressive rage won't help in that sort of situation. If you have to go with macross though, instead of using it on the regular bind, make the message a separate macro you can toss out if you notice the other party is stun locking your mobs. And maybe in form "please don't stun lock enemies while Blood price is up. I need to be hit to get MP from it." Yes, this sounds coddling but the chances are you have people who have no idea of DRK skills. Barking orders tends to be received badly, while givin a reason can lead people to think the request is not unreasonable. For those who knew of it and don't care anyway it's one and the same what you say, while those who didn't know of it learn something new. Then it's up to them how to use the knowledge.

I don't even care. All I care about is holding aggro so I pop blood price during the clumping phase of the pull. WHM can holy whenever they want and I just want to get through the alwaysreap with minimal effort. It's more important to me that the completion time is normalized. If I pop blood price at the start, in most expert roulettes the next blood price is ready for a second cast without clipping into the next pull so I'll do it even if whm behind with holy spam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sida

Wouldn't be surprised if half of the white mages don't even know what blood price is or how it works.

---

That's sort of the heart of the problem here. People are too lazy to learn the basic abilities of the tanks they're healing, so they can be better at healing them. Too many idiots jump into DF going, "LOL, tank's health is ok. Let's dps* for 5 seconds." without no regard to things like Blood Price. It's not like it's hard to get on Google and look up a few things, though. People are just LAZY.

*Note: Most of those idiots don't even switch to Cleric Stance for a few either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralvenom

People are just LAZY.

---

It's actually very lazy of you to not adjust your Blood Price timing. For WHMs, initiating Holy spam at the beginning of the pull is most effective because you can throw regen up, hardcast or swiftcast your first Holy before initiating the spam and mitigate 100% of the incoming damage for about 10-11 solid seconds with full mana. Cleric stance or no, Holy is WHM's strongest mitigation tool, and is also stronger than any CD you possess on DRK.

If you literally cannot wait 10s to pop Blood Price without going OOM or losing aggro, you're probably not playing your class effectively. I try to adjust my play on WHM when I'm with DRKs around their BP usage, but ultimately, that's what my point was. You need to be a good teammate and be flexible because you can only control what you do.

Making passive aggressive macros or forcing other people to adjust to your playstyle is lazy and entitled.

Or DRKs just wait for the stuns to end and use Blood Price then, but hey! Its always the other people

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralvenom

That's sort of the heart of the problem here. People are too lazy to learn the basic abilities of the tanks they're healing, so they can be better at healing them. Too many idiots jump into DF going, "LOL, tank's health is ok. Let's dps* for 5 seconds." without no regard to things like Blood Price. It's not like it's hard to get on Google and look up a few things, though. People are just LAZY.

---

Here's an idea, instead of activating BP and wasting while the mobs are stunned you drop grit and activate Blood weapon, you're free to dps to your hearts content and get MP back while doing it. it simple enough that afterwards you just reactivate grit and use BP to continue your damage and any good white mage will be activating shroud to drop the hate they've just created and get back their MP.

you all are so quick to say whm should wait but instead learn to adapt geez

Not reading through this train wreck of a thread entirely so sorry if its been said but fact of that matter if you want to spam holy get right in there and do it dont wait 5-10 seconds for your tank to pop any CDs they want because as so many of you whms like to say we're just getting our ass beat(funny thing that a TANK gets hit and that the healer conplaims about it) then get in there and AOE stun and idk maybe ive never seen a whm spam holy long enough but ive never seen an enemy reach the stun immunity threshold even after 5+ holys. That and ive seen far too many WHMs spam holy outside of CS and proceed to let me die. DPSing is fine i do it when i heal too but fact of the matter is youre a healer your card plate is green not brown, do your job before you do anothers
Edit for spelling

Here's the thing, drk can and should pop bp upon settling with a pull in a party with sch or ast, and whm should holy at the same time with pld or war. It boils down to communication and who'd rather be a decent person as one of them is going to have to deviate from optimal play to coddle the other. Whms in this thread are talking about expert level whm play which is the exception in the df, not the norm. Unless communicated otherwise by a whm i'll continue to bp when i normally would with either of the other two healers. =/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syzygian

snip

---

every whm should just convert to AST, cards and gravity spam! wooo!

kidding

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

Love that someone posted "git gud" in response to warrior macros being obnoxious as hell. With the right skillspeed you're only losing 1 gcd to pacification. Instead of crying to your healer to babysit you because you're scared you'll lose aggro, how about *YOU* "git gud"?

---

Warrior Main here< I have never had a chat macro for Pacification. By the time they read it, stop doing damage to esuna me, I might have 1 second left. Waste of time and a hotbar slot. Real Warriors save either Mercy Stroke or Brutal Swing while they wait for 3 secs XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ViDare

Here's an idea, instead of activating BP and wasting while the mobs are stunned you drop grit and activate Blood weapon, you're free to dps to your hearts content and get MP back while doing it. it simple enough that afterwards you just reactivate grit and use BP to continue your damage and any good white mage will be activating shroud to drop the hate they've just created and get back their MP.

you all are so quick to say whm should wait but instead learn to adapt geez

---

Okay so by that its completely fine for MCH to use Blank(something im completely fine with as i can adapt) but yet everyone bitches about that.
Edit for spelling small phone big hands op

Pacification is 5 seconda and macros can be combined to have the skill and message in one. That being said i do have a berserk macro that says Pacification in 20 seconds prepare accordingly. Im not afraid ill lose aggro one unchained berserk enmity rotation and i can switch to dps stance for the rest of the fight usually but if my healers do see that, they can esuna me, and i can keep doing damage or if youre a smart dps and you see youre about to take aggro(unlikely unless im in the middle of new content and im undergeared to hell compared to the dps) or adds spawn just as i get pacified it lets people know to either ignore adds a few seconds or expect to get hit some. But then again theres less than 5% smart dps in this game it seems. Kudos to the actual good ones there that arent super tryhards and actually listen. On that note why must 90% of dps wait until the LB will one shot the boss to use it. Such a waste.
Edit for spelling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LlamaOfLag

Okay so by that its completely fine for MCH to use Blank(something im comlletely fine with as i can adapt) but yet everyone bitches about that.

---

what in the world does this have to do with anything? if you're fine with it youre fine with it good on you for being a tank who doesnt mind, granted it's not as annoying as fluid auro since the mob isnt bound so they gradually move back into place so i dont see why other tanks would complain as long as you dont hit the mob the tank is targetting

Haha! Some tanks have seriously become so entitled that now a healer who dpses with a stun that prevents incoming damage is considered bad. Before people used to be happy if healers did any dps. Now these special tanks want healers to adapt rotations to them.

This is why tanks should never have been changed to focus on dps. They care only about themselves and want everyone to play a support role for their dps.

Be happy the healer is doing any dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

Haha! Some tanks have seriously become so entitled that now a healer who dpses with a stun that prevents incoming damage is considered bad. Before people used to be happy if healers did any dps. Now these special tanks want healers to adapt rotations to them.

This is why tanks should never have been changed to focus on dps. They care only about themselves and want everyone to play a support role for their dps.

Be happy the healer is doing any dps.

---

DRKs are making the same concession for you by waiting for you to stop holying before they can partake in a proper AoE DPS and threat burst and oh yeah, the main resource management mechanic of the job. I don't have to make that concession for a SCH, for instance, and yet they generally kill stuff faster.

Why is the onus of sacrifice on me for your job's mechanic but not ever the other way around? If I'm asked, I'll always make concessions, but otherwise, I'm going to play my job as it was intended (particularly in piddly content like dungeons), which is big pulls, high AoE DPS and self heals, resource management, and epic threat gen. I have to play my entire job sub-optimally by waiting for you to get done holying, or waiting for you to start holying at all (how do I know you even intend to DPS at all? This is the DF after all). Considering how many WHMs in the DF never even touch Holy, I surmise that the sacrifice you'd make would not be quite so jarring.

I lurk on the healer forums quite a bit, I never see tanks pop in there and speak with such gobsmacking condescension towards healers. As a tank that otherwise goes out of his way to make concessions for his healers and encourages fellow tanks to do the same, this thread in which a tanking job is getting lambasted for asking a TINY (10-15 seconds tiny) concession in return is seriously depressing.

Here's the thing. I go into every DF group fully expecting a group of drooling, useless morons and hope to be pleasantly surprised. I'd also fully expect a decent tank to do the same.

I love Holy bombing a trash pack, and will gladly go all out once Blood Price is gone. If BP is already active, I still have Aero 3, Assize, Aero 2, and Stone 3 spamming, plus the remaining countdown on BP to prep another solid HoT strategy on the tank before mashing the Holy button. I assume that, if the tank is good, they'll see my strategy and adjust their BP usage accordingly. If they're having aggro problems because they refuse to adjust their rotation to fit with mine, I'd rather restrain my DPS combo to 50-80% of its potential and finish the dungeon up without incident than go all out.

I will however refuse to compromise on the first trash pack in the last room of Fractal. That set of dolls was designed for my damage fantasies, and you can regen your tank mana on the run to the trampoline.

LOL I don't know how many times I have to say it in this thread.... I'm personally not asking healers to wait to cast holy , I'm asking them to be aware of the damn bar they are already staring at to begin with...

IF key word here "IF" a DRK is having problems with MP.... don't go out of your way to make it miserable for them... it really is quite that simple. I don't know why everyone else assumes that no one else has played the other jobs it really is quite simple to watch the information that is right there in front of your face, and make an informed choice on all things healer or not... like if you should lay off DPS or lay off on HOLY or slow down pulls etc...

The mp bar is right next to the hp bar on the party list and guess what is next to that? the buffs! amazing right!? (Yes I know some of them get cut off)

I don't know - Maybe watching the things you are already watching and making informed critical decisions based on party composition, player skill level etc... on the fly is too much to ask. LOL yet people ask for random fights... right.. its clear people want to fall into habitual habits and not think and make on the fly decisions.

Oh and by the way, half the whms I run into on DF don't know how to holy bomb worth a damn, stun resists and they keep on keeping on until I die more often than not. There has only been a few WHMs I have run into ever that can actually handle DPS + Healing. Usually it is one or the other, either all the do is heal, or all they do is DPS and derp sorry wasn't paying attention to your health. RARELY do both well.

The ones I have run into that can do this well, props to you guys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syzygian

Who exactly are you addressing here?

---

Obviously not to you if what I wrote sounds like "bunch of bitter text" to you.

I am addressing people like Imoen etc that states, see BP? Don't holy.
I just state that WHMs have to prepare before a Holy Bomb, if you pop your BP before I done my preparation, then its fine I can hold it off, otherwise I will not be able to do anything else once your BP finishes.

P/S: Please work on your reading comprehension, in my previous post I stated "With proper timing, Holy will land the moment everything is gathered", and then you went off a tangent stating "derrrp now there's a stray add being stun locked away from the pack".