How would you feel if they scrapped the current "classes"?

Wouldn't mind if they redid all the classes. There isn't really any difference between them so it wouldn't be any real lost.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

How so? What are your views? The only things you have posted so far was "No Thanks" and a link about FF jobs. Would you care to expand on your small but extremely valuable contribution so far to the thread as I can not wait to hear more of your valued insight into what this thread is about.

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Again! I'm sorry to do this to you, Alexia, but.......... THANK YOU!!!!!!!

There's only one problem. That idiot doesn't have a statement that has anything to do with this game. He's basically like the real liberal republicans.

"He tryin' to take yur guns!" Or!!!!!

"Dey took our jubs!!!"

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

Gifthorse let me tell you something. Who cares about you? I will play this game regardless of change. The only way I'll quit is what I typically do with ANY game. I beat it, or just grow tired of it.

Now I remember seeing a post about how a class is a "weapon's specialist" and I say fuck being limited to one damn weapon. What the hell was so damn wrong with wielding different weapons? I loved the fact that a Samurai's main weapon of choice was a Great Katana, but yet I could equip a Polearm or Bow for certain tasks. Let me wield a couple of axes on my Marauder again. Hell, give me a Great Sword for my Gladiator.

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

Amen, brother. Let me help you out here with this point about freedom! Let's take the United States Constitution!

Freedom of Speech is part of the 1st Amedment! NOW! Freedom HAS LIMITATIONS! What, you want an example? Here you go. It's so funny and now really old news, but...........You can't yell BOMB! on an airplane.

Now shut up, you diaper wearing adult babies. The Armoury system is too loose in the goose. There needs to be a little more limitations in there. If you can't handle that truth, then go back in the crib and suckle your bottle. Mommy will be in there soon to slap some baby powder on your bottom before you chafe.

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

THANK YOU!!!!!!

Up yours again, Gifthorse!

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Seems I was right, the baby can't handle the simple truth of a concept. Now go lay on your back so mommy can spackle some powder on your sore ass!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

How so? What are your views? The only things you have posted so far was "No Thanks" and a link about FF jobs. Would you care to expand on your small but extremely valuable contribution so far to the thread as I can not wait to hear more of your valued insight into what this thread is about.

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"Full of Fail" Hard to have an intelligent discussion with people running rough shot on anyone with different views. Nothing against you Alexia.

Okay. Here, Dyvid. I will stop smashing your mouth for the rest of the thread. You tell us all your opinion. If I could actually get an intelligent one from you, I would gladly sit down, put on my serious face, and list my opinion as well.

Starting now.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

"Full of Fail" Hard to have an intelligent discussion with people running rough shot on anyone with different views. Nothing against you Alexia.

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I have to say, I really struggle to keep myself composed on these forums at the minute, and I am not normally like that ever. I think it's because people really want this game to succeed but everyone has a different idea of what it need's to do that so it makes it very easy to get angry at someone with a different opinion, especially when they refuse to see things from the other side of the fence.

These forums are supposed to be for discussion not flame wars and I hope we can get back to the discussion as you never know we may come up with a solution that suits everyone ^^

So anyways...

A warrior can still wield all the melee weapons in the game under the armory system if you want it to.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Now when you level your BLM you could add you cure's from WHM, Provoke from WAR, BOOST from MNK and so on to create your ridiculous BLM tank hybrid class that you want so bad.

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But then you still run into the same "problem" that people are having, which is the perceived lack of class uniqueness(which I'm sorry to say still sounds like a load of bullocks to me).

Will changing the names of classes REALLY change your(not speaking about you individually) perceptions of the game? Calling the 7 current combat classes by their "traditional" names isn't going to change the fact that there are only 7 combat classes, and I'm sure Shakespeare had something to say about names...

I'm not sure I'm understanding the OP though. It also sounds like you may just want to have the game "remember" your previous class set up. Well this is something they should have the game do as opposed to me having to set a macro for it.

As for the Armory system and the class names themselves, I think the names are pretty cool. I like the classical naming style as well as the idea that "gladiator" and "pugilist" represent a a weapon user and not an actual job. A Paladin or a Dark Knight could be a gladiator, since they use swords, a Berserker or a Beastmaster could be a Marauder because they use axes, etc. The classes form a base, and I like that.

The armory system itself is a pretty streamlined(in my mind) version of the job system from Final Fantasy V/Final Fantasy Tactics. Mix and match any ability to create your own unique character or choose from your own "Load outs" to fit the situation as it presents itself. I don't really want them to scrap anything as much as I want them to expand upon it.

Like I keep pointing out in my other friends, I just want the devs to stick to their guns and try to deliver the most fun they can, but I'd be disappointed if they "scrapped" anything.

The only thing I wish they hadn't done was give gladiators the ability to use daggers from the get go. That should have been reserved strictly for some type of Rogue/Assassin/juggler class.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

So anyways...

A warrior can still wield all the melee weapons in the game under the armory system if you want it to.

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That's not what we're trying to say, Gifthorse. It's not about wielding every weapon. The weapon's are just the tool. What I would like to see is Role Specialization's.

You know, when I first heard about Weapon Specialization's long before the Alpha-Beta tests, I was under the impression that you would start out with a weapon of choice and use your experience to upgrade the weapon. Now what I mean by this is that on every job they would hand you your starter weapon. There would be no more, "The next best thing!" as far as new weapons were concerned. I thought that as you progressed your character through battles, quests, and missions, your weapon would grow more powerful and take shape as your character did. It's sort of like the weapons in Final Fantasy XIII. You would have a starter weapon and could upgrade it through the course of the game.

I was thinking that would be such a hell of an idea. Sadly I was mistaken as to what he was saying. ; ;

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

So anyways...

A warrior can still wield all the melee weapons in the game under the armory system if you want it to.

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A warrior can't use both a spear and a bow at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

That's not what we're trying to say, Gifthorse. It's not about wielding every weapon. The weapon's are just the tool. What we want is Role Specialization's.

You know, when I first heard about Weapon Specialization's long before the Alpha-Beta tests, I was under the impression that you would start out with a weapon of choice and use your experience to upgrade the weapon. Now what I mean by this is that on every job they would hand you your starter weapon. There would be no more, "The next best thing!" as far as new weapons were concerned. I thought that as you progressed your character through battles, quests, and missions, your weapon would grow more powerful and take shape as your character did. It's sort of like the weapons in Final Fantasy XIII. You would have a starter weapon and could upgrade it through the course of the game.

I was thinking that would be such a hell of an idea. Sadly I was mistaken as to what he was saying. ; ;

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Oh... well that's more your own fault than the armory system's fault.

Most people don't play MMOs to be given everything. They like the idea of individual progression and expression. The armory system provides a basis for that, and also a basis for developing your own role.

Regardless of the weapon you choose to specialise in, you can choose a role independent of that. So although some people say that the armory system is boring because each class has only one weapon, that's incorrect, since each role can have all the weapons. It's all up to you.

The areas in which the armory system falls short (for the meantime) concern the fact that there is no way to enhance your role beyond a series of roles. For instance, if you want to be a DD magic-user (BLM), you are just as effective at healing (WHM). So even if you want to be a BLM, there's nothing differentiating you from a WHM. So most parties will insist you just heal.

If there was a way to enhance your role, both in demonstrating it visually to other players (AF gear etc), and also in bonus attributes, then the armory system could improve greatly to allow for greater role specialisations. Which, incidentally, is the thing you're complaining about.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

A warrior can't use both a spear and a bow at the same time.

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Hmm, I can't even picture that.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Hmm, I can't even picture that.

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Ranged weapon slot. I don't like being confined to throwing weapons as every class but archer.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Ranged weapon slot. I don't like being confined to throwing weapons as every class but archer.

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Well you can switch to using a bow when you need to use a bow.

You have to disengage the mob in order to do so, but in FFXI it drained your TP to zero too, so it's not like you weren't sacrificing anything in that situation either.

There is nothing wrong with the classes or the class names. The problem is class roles.

^ and lack of identity.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Well you can switch to using a bow when you need to use a bow.

You have to disengage the mob in order to do so, but in FFXI it drained your TP to zero too, so it's not like you weren't sacrificing anything in that situation either.

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In FFXI I could just shoot it with my bow, then melee it when it got close, without losing TP. As SAM/RNG I could use the TP building abilities and melee weapon skills of Samurai combined with the great ranged abilities and powerful bow weapon skills of Ranger. I can't do that in XIV.

You've made it clear that you never played FFXI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Oh... well that's more your own fault than the armory system's fault.

Most people don't play MMOs to be given everything. They like the idea of individual progression and expression. The armory system provides a basis for that, and also a basis for developing your own role.

Regardless of the weapon you choose to specialise in, you can choose a role independent of that. So although some people say that the armory system is boring because each class has only one weapon, that's incorrect, since each role can have all the weapons. It's all up to you.

The areas in which the armory system falls short (for the meantime) concern the fact that there is no way to enhance your role beyond a series of roles. For instance, if you want to be a DD magic-user (BLM), you are just as effective at healing (WHM). So even if you want to be a BLM, there's nothing differentiating you from a WHM. So most parties will insist you just heal.

If there was a way to enhance your role, both in demonstrating it visually to other players (AF gear etc), and also in bonus attributes, then the armory system could improve greatly to allow for greater role specialisations. Which, incidentally, is the thing you're complaining about.

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Thats not exactly true, I could not be a sword wielding THM in this as by equipping the sword my usefulness as a Mage diminishes greatly. However if the system was changed and not made dependant on the weapon but an actual class I could still be a fully functional THM with a sword as opposed to a "sword user" who can cast some spells.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

The areas in which the armory system falls short (for the meantime) concern the fact that there is no way to enhance your role beyond a series of roles. For instance, if you want to be a DD magic-user (BLM), you are just as effective at healing (WHM). So even if you want to be a BLM, there's nothing differentiating you from a WHM. So most parties will insist you just heal.

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This is basically what I'm talking about. To me there are not seven, but two different classes. War & Magic. At this point you can basically be either Disipline of War class and be the same, only with a different weapon in your hand.(Maybe a shield.) The same goes to Disipline of Magic. Both can heal or cast elemental magic. Where's the specialization in this system?

In XI, (Please don't misread. I'm not saying to put this in 14. Only a reference.) What made each job special was it's own unique way to instill a purpose of it's role. Now I'm not going to list them all, just a couple.

I. Paladin - Most plainly put was it's purpose was to distract the monster's attention and take the damage so it doesn't run rampant on the rest of the squad. It could also heal itself, but was never directly related to a White Mage generally because MP and actions dictated his role of keeping emnity.

II. Warrior - Not at first, but down the line's, a Warrior's purpose was to deal critical damage to the enemy and help defeat them. Now also, like the Paladin, it was also played with the sub job Ninja.(Not stating Ninja. It was a freak in XI and can't be placed.) A Warrior never resembled a Ninja, only implementing a couple abilities from the Ninja(Utsusemi, and Dual Wield) to further it's place as a DD.

III. Thief - Now this one has a unique purpose in itself. Illusion. It's purpose for, not all, but many a great deal in terms of group work was to give the illusion of emnity to another. That, as well as it's very high evasion, were sole purposes of these jobs.

Now I know what you're thinking, a lot of these traits could be shared. I know! What I'm trying to get at is that this current implementation has a very loose restriction as to what abilities and traits can be shared. A Warrior could give away his Berserk ability, but did it mean that the one who used it as a sub job would gain ALL abilities? No. Only up to a certain point.

If any of this seems rather hazey, I'm truly sorry. I'm just trying to show my side of the story. We need a firmer grip on abilities and traits that can or can't be crossed over to another class.

I seem to remember in XI that jobs were still bound to a single weapon because one was always optimal over the others and if you were, say, a warrior using anything other than a great axe you were generally blacklisted from group activities by the population at large.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Demacia

In FFXI I could just shoot it with my bow, then melee it when it got close, without losing TP. As SAM/RNG I could use the TP building abilities and melee weapon skills of Samurai combined with the great ranged abilities and powerful bow weapon skills of Ranger. I can't do that in XIV.

You've made it clear that you never played FFXI.

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Weird, whenever I played THF and meleed and then switched to crossbow, my TP went to zero. It's kind of beside the point anyway.

You have to separate the two systems, FFXI and FFXIV. It would be cool if you could switch between multiple types of weapon specialities without having to lvl them to a state of equivalent proficiency. For example, if you are a R50 Gladiator and R30 Archer and you switch between the two, obviously there will be a drastic change in your effectiveness.

I think the Physical Lvl system was supposed to counteract that, but obviously it has been diluted down a lot to give people the sense of progress they needed with the classes we have.

All in all, I think sacrificing the strategy of using a sword and switching to a bow is something I would be willing to make to maintain the armory system. But if you can think of a way for them to coexist...

Perhaps if you could uses macros such as /equip main "instert weapon here" during combat, then the system would be more functionaly. Obviously you'd need to level both weapons to an equivalent lvl to be worthwhile, but FF games were never easy, were they?

And in real life, being proficient in two weapons requires a lot of practice.

Even in FFXI you had to grind the ranged skill up anyway, unless you were using ranged weapons since lvl 1.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Weird, whenever I played THF and meleed and then switched to crossbow, my TP went to zero. It's kind of beside the point anyway.

You have to separate the two systems, FFXI and FFXIV. It would be cool if you could switch between multiple types of weapon specialities without having to lvl them to a state of equivalent proficiency. For example, if you are a R50 Gladiator and R30 Archer and you switch between the two, obviously there will be a drastic change in your effectiveness.

I think the Physical Lvl system was supposed to counteract that, but obviously it has been diluted down a lot to give people the sense of progress they needed with the classes we have.

All in all, I think sacrificing the strategy of using a sword and switching to a bow is something I would be willing to make to maintain the armory system. But if you can think of a way for them to coexist...

Perhaps if you could uses macros such as /equip main "instert weapon here" during combat, then the system would be more functionaly. Obviously you'd need to level both weapons to an equivalent lvl to be worthwhile, but FF games were never easy, were they?

And in real life, being proficient in two weapons requires a lot of practice.

Even in FFXI you had to grind the ranged skill up anyway, unless you were using ranged weapons since lvl 1.

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You never switched to crossbow because you could have both a melee and ranged weapon equipped at the same time. Quit lying.

I don't mind grinding if it means I can have actual freedom to play as I choose. The armory system does not provide that. I'd rather have several ways to play unique classes than have several "unique" builds that fill the same roles regardless of the weapon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Thats not exactly true, I could not be a sword wielding THM in this as by equipping the sword my usefulness as a Mage diminishes greatly. However if the system was changed and not made dependant on the weapon but an actual class I could still be a fully functional THM with a sword as opposed to a "sword user" who can cast some spells.

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With automatic MP regen nowadays, you can still function well enough.

Anyway, there is another thread on these forums on the distinction between roles/classes where we are discussing how the implementation of a template, label, or other bonus could help facilitate people to make the class they want. If you want to be a sword-wielding mage (like a RDM or something) as your role, then there is still the possibility to do so under the current armory system with the addition of aforementioned templates.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

This is basically what I'm talking about. To me there are not seven, but two different classes. War & Magic. At this point you can basically be either Disipline of War class and be the same, only with a different weapon in your hand.(Maybe a shield.) The same goes to Disipline of Magic. Both can heal or cast elemental magic. Where's the specialization in this system?

In XI, (Please don't misread. I'm not saying to put this in 14. Only a reference.) What made each job special was it's own unique way to instill a purpose of it's role. Now I'm not going to list them all, just a couple.

I. Paladin - Most plainly put was it's purpose was to distract the monster's attention and take the damage so it doesn't run rampant on the rest of the squad. It could also heal itself, but was never directly related to a White Mage generally because MP and actions dictated his role of keeping emnity.

II. Warrior - Not at first, but down the line's, a Warrior's purpose was to deal critical damage to the enemy and help defeat them. Now also, like the Paladin, it was also played with the sub job Ninja.(Not stating Ninja. It was a freak in XI and can't be placed.) A Warrior never resembled a Ninja, only implementing a couple abilities from the Ninja(Utsusemi, and Dual Wield) to further it's place as a DD.

III. Thief - Now this one has a unique purpose in itself. Illusion. It's purpose for, not all, but many a great deal in terms of group work was to give the illusion of emnity to another. That, as well as it's very high evasion, were sole purposes of these jobs.

Now I know what you're thinking, a lot of these traits could be shared. I know! What I'm trying to get at is that this current implementation has a very loose restriction as to what abilities and traits can be shared. A Warrior could give away his Berserk ability, but did it mean that the one who used it as a sub job would gain ALL abilities? No. Only up to a certain point.

If any of this seems rather hazey, I'm truly sorry. I'm just trying to show my side of the story. We need a firmer grip on abilities and traits that can or can't be crossed over to another class.

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I know what you're saying, but improving the armory system so that it can facilitate players into making those classes is better than removing altogether and substituting it for those classes.

The classes in FFXI and any other game are about balance and sacrifice. A Paladin sacrifices its DD abilities in order to be a better tank. So if there was a way to simply apply something like a "Paladin template" to your character which gave your character more defense but less attack, then it could exist within the confines of the armory system.

It's not mutually exclusive is what I'm trying to say.

And back on topic (i.e., back to what the OP was saying), im still not in favour of changing the name of the classes to the names of roles because that still doesn't make sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I seem to remember in XI that jobs were still bound to a single weapon because one was always optimal over the others and if you were, say, a warrior using anything other than a great axe you were generally blacklisted from group activities by the population at large.

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That's not true. Although you mostly seen a Warrior dual wielding axes, and a Samurai using a Great Katana, it was mostly used for Leveling/Meriting. In truth, at the endgame scene of the spectrum(Not HNM.....) you would see a wide variety of weapons used. Especially in such area's as Sea in the CoP expansion. For instance when trying to get the pop items, a lot of the NM's were immune to certain types of attacks, (Blunt, Slashing, Piercing) and you would always see different weapon usage for different enemies.

Back in the day of Sky, I always remembered Warrior/Thief using a Great Axe over Axes because it dealt far more damage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

I know what you're saying, but improving the armory system so that it can facilitate players into making those classes is better than removing altogether and substituting it for those classes.

The classes in FFXI and any other game are about balance and sacrifice. A Paladin sacrifices its DD abilities in order to be a better tank. So if there was a way to simply apply something like a "Paladin template" to your character which gave your character more defense but less attack, then it could exist within the confines of the armory system.

It's not mutually exclusive is what I'm trying to say.

And back on topic (i.e., back to what the OP was saying), im still not in favour of changing the name of the classes to the names of roles because that still doesn't make sense.

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Never said anything of scraping the entire armoury system. Just needs some redefining features to make things less of a big ole pot of scrambled eggs.

Also I haven't even been talking about the OP. I think changing names won't change anything. That's like going from Nazi to Neo-Nazi. Same shit, different diaper.

I used to use my crossbow mid fight all the time in FFXI on DRK and I never lost my TP, in fact when someone pulled the mob I would often shoot it on the way to camp to gain some extra TP before we started the fight.

I am trying to understand what you are getting at here Gifthorse but I can't. What we are suggesting is that you separate weapons defining the class to making actual classes that can use different weapon's.

For example in FFXIV if we take MRD and separate it from being an axe user to an actual class, MRD in this case then the MRD would still have all the abilities that a MRD would learn but it would be able to equip a G. Axe and any other weapon it choose but then tie the weapon skill's to the weapon to make each weapon class unique as well. They would then have to implement a skillup system for weapon's to level your skill with the weapons to have better ACC and learn weapon skill's with it.

With that you still have a MRD but now it is not confined to a G. Axe and in fact creates even more options to build a class.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

And back on topic (i.e., back to what the OP was saying), im still not in favour of changing the name of the classes to the names of roles because that still doesn't make sense.

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We are not suggesting something as simple as changing the name of CON to WHM to please people. We are suggesting a complete re-evaluation of the system to remove the current system of weapon=class to implementing actual classes ie Split CON into 2 classes WHM and BLM both completely independent with their own skills and abilties.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Demacia

You never switched to crossbow because you could have both a melee and ranged weapon equipped at the same time. Quit lying.

I don't mind grinding if it means I can have actual freedom to play as I choose. The armory system does not provide that. I'd rather have several ways to play unique classes than have several "unique" builds that fill the same roles regardless of the weapon.

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Well it hurts your TP if your changing your ranged slots for different weapons. Or something. Obviously I quit like 4 years ago. Not everyone plays outdated MMOs still.

And the armory system doesn't have to be the wayit is if you bother to look for solutions instead of shooting everything down.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

And the armory system doesn't have to be the wayit is if you bother to look for solutions instead of shooting everything down.

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Which is what we are trying to do by separating the class from weapon ><

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Well it hurts your TP if your changing your ranged slots for different weapons. Or something. Obviously I quit like 4 years ago. Not everyone plays outdated MMOs still.

And the armory system doesn't have to be the wayit is if you bother to look for solutions instead of shooting everything down.

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Yeah, if you change from one crossbow to a different one, it drops your TP, but you can still change your ammo freely. What's your point?

The funny thing is the "outdated" MMO is more streamlined than the new one. The armory system is a step backwards from the subjob system, the maps in XIV are a major step backwards in quality, market wards are a step backwards from an AH, and battle regimens are a step backwards from skillchains and magic bursts, XIV in general is just a gigantic step backwards from FFXI. Am I saying turn it into FFXI-2? No, but I am suggesting that maybe the new game should not be way worse than the old one.

The game started on a bad foundation and if those foundations are scrapped for better ones I will gladly support it.

Exactly I would like them to spend the time fixing the mechanic's of the game or even redoing entire system's before they start adding content on top of a bad foundation.

One of the major gripes that lost this game a lot of players is that this game does not feel like a Final Fantasy game, by reintroducing traditional classes and familiar systems that will go a long way to bringing the Final Fantasy feeling back.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Which is what we are trying to do by separating the class from weapon ><

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The thing is, there's a difference between class and job. THM and WHM aren't jobs, they are classes. There is a distinction in the sense that one should find his or her job within the boundaries of the classes. The classes are left vague so that we can take our own direction within them.

Renaming and giving each class a specific direction is in opposition to what the armory system stands for. I already said this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I used to use my crossbow mid fight all the time in FFXI on DRK and I never lost my TP, in fact when someone pulled the mob I would often shoot it on the way to camp to gain some extra TP before we started the fight.

I am trying to understand what you are getting at here Gifthorse but I can't. What we are suggesting is that you separate weapons defining the class to making actual classes that can use different weapon's.

For example in FFXIV if we take MRD and separate it from being an axe user to an actual class, MRD in this case then the MRD would still have all the abilities that a MRD would learn but it would be able to equip a G. Axe and any other weapon it choose but then tie the weapon skill's to the weapon to make each weapon class unique as well. They would then have to implement a skillup system for weapon's to level your skill with the weapons to have better ACC and learn weapon skill's with it.

With that you still have a MRD but now it is not confined to a G. Axe and in fact creates even more options to build a class.



We are not suggesting something as simple as changing the name of CON to WHM to please people. We are suggesting a complete re-evaluation of the system to remove the current system of weapon=class to implementing actual classes ie Split CON into 2 classes WHM and BLM both completely independent with their own skills and abilties.

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I am just going to make a comment on the weapon point. I do not mind MRD picking another weapon to use other than G.Axe, but not EVERY weapon. Only a select few others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

The thing is, there's a difference between class and job. THM and WHM aren't jobs, they are classes. There is a distinction in the sense that one should find his or her job within the boundaries of the classes. The classes are left vague so that we can take our own direction within them.

Renaming and giving each class a specific direction is in opposition to what the armory system stands for. I already said this.

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And what we've already said is that we want the armory system to be reworked or removed.

Everyone keeps forgetting that the majority voted for drastic changes. DRASTIC. Not tweaks here and there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Demacia

And what we've already said is that we want the armory system to be reworked or removed.

Everyone keeps forgetting that the majority voted for drastic changes. DRASTIC. Not tweaks here and there.

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Well the majority play WoW, so...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Well the majority play WoW, so...

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Just because a vocal minority support the systems in place doesn't mean they're good. WoW is NOT a game I enjoy but I'd be stupid if I said it was a BAD game. Major difference between facts and opinions. Having player levels doesn't support the armory system. Battle regimens don't support manual attacks. Those are facts. Everything in the game is a mess and just poorly thought out in general.

This is why everyone wants to see big changes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Well the majority play WoW, so...

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Oh that's just complete horse shit. I was an avid FFXI for seven damn years. I'm part of that majority that wants to see changes to bring back the spirit of Final Fantasy.

Also I tried to play WoW for 30 minutes and flung it in the trash.

personally i think class names should be reserved for higher then basic classes that way for end game players can proudly show off their class not just their rank... using the classic classes we love so much as basic classes would be down grading the class. basic names should be basic and work into classic names.

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Originally Posted by Chibino

personally i think class names should be reserved for higher then basic classes that way for end game players can proudly show off their class not just their rank... using the classic classes we love so much as basic classes would be down grading the class. basic names should be basic and work into classic names.

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This seems to be what everyone wants, including me. Keep the the current classes as basic classes and introduce the traditional jobs as advanced classes.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

This seems to be what everyone wants, including me. Keep the the current classes as basic classes and introduce the traditional jobs as advanced classes.

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Which I wouldn't mind but how would it work with the current mish mash of classes? Do you take CON to R50 then it stops, then you can branch off as a BLM or a WHM or do both? Or if you unlocked BLM at R30 and levelled it as a separate class to CON what would be the point when CON has pretty much all of BLM's spells.

I just think the current system has made a real mess of traditional classes and it will be hard to separate them or give you a reason to level them over the hybrid mish mash classes at the minute, but I would still like to hear what options people can give on this as it is something I am very interest in.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Which I wouldn't mind but how would it work with the current mish mash of classes? Do you take CON to R50 then it stops, then you can branch off as a BLM or a WHM or do both? Or if you unlocked BLM at R30 and levelled it as a separate class to CON what would be the point when CON has pretty much all of BLM's spells.

I just think the current system has made a real mess of traditional classes and it will be hard to separate them or give you a reason to level them over the hybrid mish mash classes at the minute, but I would still like to hear what options people can give on this as it is something I am very interest in.

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I think the only issue is figuring out a way to reimburse the players who already ranked up to 50 and allowing them to be equal in a reworked class system. All of the current classes' skill sets need to be redone.

I have a feeling, if they go the specialization route, that split will happen at 50.