Heavensword 2* Red Scrip Crafting Rotation

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Originally Posted by MN_14

I think you should be fine with those stats (up to 470 CP with food). There's going to be a bit of rng involved (ideally 2 good procs when SH2 is up), but most times you should be able to use precise touch once or twice, or maybe some basic touches to reduce rng. If you can use tricks of the trade early, you could potentially get some very good results.

With enough starting quality, the requirements for an HQ aren't particularly stringent, so both rotations should work quite well, provided that your CP is high enough.

Edit: I think it should be noted that there is a chance for a "catastrophic failure" if too many rapid synthesis attempts miss while ingenuity 2 is up. The risk is fairly small, but with the game's streaky rng, it will happen a bit more often that you'd expect.

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Ah ok thnx lol kinda wanna try it lol

Dunno if it was said but, hasty touch is CUL 15, not ALC 15.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

snip regarding muscle memory

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I used to use MaMa but I swapped to MuMe because of the CP . Sounds a bit odd but somehow it works better for me. my whole rotation goes a bit like this but it starts like : MaMe WWW CZ IQ SH2 WN HT all the way to 10/70 then CZ MM2 SH2 HT all the way to 40/70 (GS Inno Bb) then IN2 RS RS CS2 (this is the bit when it gets interesting) use WWW to gain +2 durability and with a bit of luck I should finish the item.

I might of missed something in my own rotation but that's how I play it and I use the specialist stacks (9 6 3 ) whenever they are up. So you get an idea

Thanks Foxy, that was a last min add since I never list it as required for my macros (which is where my template is from) but hasty is technically required.

And no I concur Mature MuMe = some extra CP left over. Likewise I find ToT procs are easier to access. I'm also finding MaMa is annoying when doing 1 star goods. Its not bad bad, but the progress ends in an awkward spot personally.

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Originally Posted by Mature

I used to use MaMa but I swapped to MuMe because of the CP . Sounds a bit odd but somehow it works better for me.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

And no I concur Mature MuMe = some extra CP left over. Likewise I find ToT procs are easier to access.

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Everything else aside, this should not be the case. When you use MaMa for 1 star or 2 star you get in a free CZ, which essentially reduces the cost to 6. There shouldn't be any extra CP cost associated with its use in 1 or 2 star crafts. MaMa>CZ>FS>CZ>IQ

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Originally Posted by Rath

Everything else aside, this should not be the case. When you use MaMa for 1 star or 2 star you get in a free CZ, which essentially reduces the cost to 6. There shouldn't be any extra CP cost associated with its use in 1 or 2 star crafts. MaMa>CZ>FS>CZ>IQ

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The difference in CP use from Mama vs the MuMe I proposed is actually in using three vs four SH. That's where the extra CP is saved. Don't get me wrong I've used both rotations and both have their ups and downs. I can easily see why people would prefer Mama. For instance one unlisted benefit of MaMa is if you accept being short on your flawless synths (and need to use an extra Careful synth) which tends to occur if you load up on ToTs during your flawelss synths (picking up one or two). I find myself doing this in 1 star synths when using MaMa.

I flip back and forth between the two trying to find if I fundamentally find one more successful than the other and I haven't seen much difference.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

For instance one unlisted benefit of MaMa is if you accept being short on your flawless synths (and need to use an extra Careful synth) which tends to occur if you load up on ToTs during your flawelss synths (picking up one or two). I find myself doing this in 1 star synths when using MaMa.

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This is one of the places our thinking differs. I generally take at least 1 ToT during my flawless synths. If I take two toT and fail 2 FS, I will just use one PT/BT and change my cs2 into SS. This allows me to keep all 11 HT in my rotation.

The only time I actually drop a HT is if I fail 3 FS and get 0 ToT procs prior to my last HT. So far this has not happened. Doesn't mean it will not, but I have planned for its eventuality.

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Originally Posted by Rath

The only time I actually drop a HT is if I fail 3 FS and get 0 ToT procs prior to my last HT. So far this has not happened. Doesn't mean it will not, but I have planned for its eventuality.

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No your logic is great on what you're applying. Unfortunately my experience so far has been if I take one ToT proc I have always managed to end up with 8 or less FS... so I've been accepting all ToTs I can get. This could be rotten luck though. So my personal experience has been either take the ToTs or go for the 9 successes.

Note I run into a similar problem when I'm greedy with my MuMe rotation and use precise touch during the Rapid Touch sequence (just don't do it).

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But on the bright side using both rotations and proper HQ components I still haven't NQed a two star end good. (I do need to stop being lazy on my 1 star synths though... using no HQ ingredients and then having super terrible synths).

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

But on the bright side using both rotations and proper HQ components I still haven't NQed a two star end good. (I do need to stop being lazy on my 1 star synths though... using no HQ ingredients and then having super terrible synths).

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Heh, I forgot to IQ and failed...I got to 26% due to an ex on my GS advanced touch...but ya...don't forget your IQ lol. At least it was only a ring.

Also, with MaMa..do not take a ToT after PbP until SH drops. This guarantees 3 of your FS.

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Originally Posted by Rath

Heh, I forgot to IQ and failed...I got to 26% due to an ex on my GS advanced touch...but ya...don't forget your IQ lol. At least it was only a ring.

Also, with MaMa..do not take a ToT after PbP until SH drops. This guarantees 3 of your FS.

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I pulled that same IQ mess on a Thav top... and frowned after. And yup I fumbled up two of my MaMa doing exactly what you listed, ToTing during SH (actually my ding dong butt was precise touching without IQ up). I'm so used to Precising during those early procs I slipped right too it lol. Good tips none the less ;-)

I started looking at some interesting rotation possibilities at higher gear requirements. This one is essentially a modification of Jade's brand approach but requires 774 craftsman (748 base and HQ Baked Onion Soup), 695 control and 444 CP (396 base and HQ Baked Onion Soup). To do the Precise/Basic touch you need 18 additional CP or 414 Base CP.

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=vi...3dVWjBWUU5zNG8

The key to the approach is having enough craftsman that the final Careful Synthesis II can be done without Ingenuity II. This allows the rotation to be adjusted to be completed with only three SHII. The required Craftsmanship is 774 which is possible without any red scrip gear + Baked Onion soup (but the melds are fairly hard core). This is probably not sane until you have at least one two star piece of equipment already.

The rotation has a 100% progress rate with 10 hasty touches, while one can be substituted with a precise/basic. I ran this today with good results, crafting my Boltmasters Dreadnought HQ. Likewise my synths were TERRIBLE but I was still able to comfortably HQ the end item.

Its also interesting to note you could swap to Ingenuity 1 and complete this rotation with somewhere around 842-850 Craftsmanship. You could then save 8 CP which might allow someone to max CP at 472 with HQ Seafood and get another Precise/Basic touch. Also all classes get access to all key skills including Innovate and Reclaim, except goldsmithing. Goldsmithing looses access to Reclaim. PS: Hats off to Jade for proposing a Name/Brand rotation.

Hi there, I've been seeing a lot of different 2-Star rotations and I wanted to share mine as well. It's a slight variation of the rotation that I've already shared here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...list_crafting/

http://i.imgur.com/N38Yk2C.png

This rotation has 12 SHII buffed HTs and can be done at the absolute minimum stats provided you have 443 CP, although with minimum stats if an FS is failed or replaced for a ToT an extra BS/SS/CSII will be needed.

For classes that cannot fit all the cross-classes needed (Such as BSM) you can substitute Innovation/CSII for the other necessary skills. Additional CP gained through MMrk phase or from having 461+ to start with can be used for a Precise Touch and the rotation is quite flexible on where you can use ToT. Keep in mind that if you choose not to use Innovation you will be short 8 CP for Byregot's phase due to the leftover CZ stack.

It is worth noting that while I do have multiple overmelded 2-Star items I can reliably 0%-100% 2-Stars at a 95% rate provided I have no more than 3+ failures. My stats (With Seafood Stew) are: Craftsmanship 838 Control 813 CP 472. I typically get at least 1 Good during MMrk phase which allows me to use 2 Precise Touches should more Goods pop up or end with 2 BTs before BB phase.

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Originally Posted by Sollux

This rotation has 12 SHII buffed HTs...

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Well that is a really strange but interesting rotation. I guess the primary downside is you have to be prepared to adapt to RNG. I suppose with 465 CP you could SH 1 the start of your rotation. That would make your FS work almost every single time. With that said as you mentioned extra craftsmanship will progressively remove one or two FS from needing to complete. I guess my curiosity with the rotation is how flexible the FS portion becomes as craftsmanship increases. Thanks for posting this one, I don't follow reddit and hadn't seen a combined MaMa/PbP/Rapid

I just put this in the calc and realized you need at least 828 craftsman just to nip the flawless down to 9/12 So at the minimum stats you basically have to hit all of your FS. Or plan on doing a Careful Synth II and 11 SHII HTs. So I would say at min stats this rotation isn't super enticing but as your stats scale it becomes interesting.

Also that last SHII can be SHI. And Inner quiet would be cast best behind the second CZ.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

Well that is a really strange but interesting rotation. I guess the primary downside is you have to be prepared to adapt to RNG. I suppose with 465 CP you could SH 1 the start of your rotation. That would make your FS work almost every single time. With that said as you mentioned extra craftsmanship will progressively remove one or two FS from needing to complete.

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With the extra ~12 steps in the rotation thanks to MMrk you have the flexibility to ToT a Good should it show up. If you're able to do this you can replace a HT with a PT essentially getting 2 guaranteed IQ stacks instead of an 80% chance at 1. This opens up the ability to give up 1 of the 12 HT and replace it with a BT/SS/BSII to make up for any failed/missed FS. Even if for some reason you don't get another Good the entire rotation you can still use the extra CP to guarantee a stack near the end.

As for whether this is viable with the absolute minimum stats I honestly cannot say. For anyone wishing to attempt it I suggest testing on a cheap 1-Star as the Progress/Quality gains aren't much different. If you find yourself with excess Progress/Quality you'll have a better idea of whether you want to use it on a 2-Star.

You're also correct that the last SHII can be SH which would make the total cost 440 CP. You're also right in that IQ can be used before the second CZ, however I recommend using it early if you get a Good during MMrk as it will allow you to ToT a second Good if it pops up and only miss out on 1 CP.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

I just put this in the calc and realized you need at least 828 craftsman just to nip the flawless down to 9/12 So at the minimum stats you basically have to hit all of your FS. Or plan on doing a Careful Synth II and 11 SHII HTs. So I would say at min stats this rotation isn't super enticing but as your stats scale it becomes interesting.

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I don't think it's really suitable for minimum stats because in all likelihood, you're not going to land all of your FS. So in effect, it'll turn into an 11 HT rotation, removing some of it's benefits.

Also, the pbp is used without SH, so there's a 10% chance of it missing. Each miss represents a loss of 15 CP, meaning that you'll want a higher base CP stat to absorb the loss or use tricks of the trade somewhere to compensate for it.

Since the odds of landing all FS are stacked against you anyways, I'd probably recommend using tricks of the trade during the flawless synth phase as there don't appear to be many opportunities to use it until WN2 has worn off. However, you still need 9 FS to complete progress, so you have to keep that in mind too.

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Originally Posted by MN_14

I don't think it's really suitable for minimum stats because in all likelihood, you're not going to land all of your FS. So in effect, it'll turn into an 11 HT rotation, removing some of it's benefits...

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Since I had yet to come up with this rotation until after I was well past the minimum stats I cannot speak on how reliable it would be at the bare minimum. I only claim that it is possible to do with the minimum stats and at lest 440 CP (Assuming you use SH for BB phase and not SHII like I have in the image). That being said, I do not recommend this rotation to those who cannot be flexible.

Even if you are forced to replace a HT with a BS/CSII this still leaves you with 11 buffed HT and only 2 RS as part of your synthesis. Every ToT and +18 starting CP you can get changes that ratio to 1/2 guaranteed stacks and 10 HT chances, increasing in stability with more CP.

As for the use of PbP, personally I feal a 10% failure chance is acceptable compared to wasting 1 MMrk step and 22 CP to be able to use SH for PbP. Should PbP fail then yes, you will need to use more CP and 10 more Dura however this rotation is 42 steps total with only 12 steps that cannot use ToT (WNII and BB phase). It is highly likely you will make up that CP with a ToT in that time. Also, compared to an INGII rotation this is much cheaper and more reliable.

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Originally Posted by Sollux

Even if you are forced to replace a HT with a BS/CSII this still leaves you with 11 buffed HT and only 2 RS as part of your synthesis. Every ToT and +18 starting CP you can get changes that ratio to 1/2 guaranteed stacks and 10 HT chances, increasing in stability with more CP.

As for the use of PbP, personally I feal a 10% failure chance is acceptable compared to wasting 1 MMrk step and 22 CP to be able to use SH for PbP. Should PbP fail then yes, you will need to use more CP and 10 more Dura however this rotation is 42 steps total with only 12 steps that cannot use ToT (WNII and BB phase). It is highly likely you will make up that CP with a ToT in that time. Also, compared to an INGII rotation this is much cheaper and more reliable.

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1.) If you save IQ until after the FS are done you have an additional FS and a useable ToT chance as well. Not like you will use PT before then anyways.

2.) Although I think your rotation is better then the one you linked to in reddit (honestly think that rotation is worse then almost any other I have seen), I think it is not very good for the CP required. You have 2 80% and 1 90% progress action. To me that feels like every second synth attempt with this rotation will always drop you down to at least 11 max HT. Then 2 average HT failures puts you at 9 HT on average.

3.)Then you require 11 FS to succeed in order to keep your progress at 4 moves as well. With that being the case you can just use the rotation I posted with 437 CP required and base 2 star stats required. As it has 100% progress and can go to 12 HT (with 445 CP and 738 craft) if you get all of your FS as well, with 3 FS at 100%.

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Originally Posted by Rath

1.) If you save IQ until after the FS are done you have an additional FS and a useable ToT chance as well. Not like you will use PT before then anyways.

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MMrk uses 20 CP. PbP uses 15 CP. CZ will return 14 CP. The entire MMrk section uses 21 CP total meaning if you get more than 1 Good it will essentially be a waste as it isn't worth using ToT for 1 more CP. Using IQ early brings the total cost of the MMrk phase to 39 CP meaning you can ToT 2 Goods and will only lose out on 1 CP, AND pay for IQ at the same time. Yes you only benefit from using it early IF you get a second Good however you can hold off on using IQ until you've already gotten your first Good. Either way you do not have to use IQ during MMrk and can just delay it until afterwards.

Assuming I'm looking at the right rotation our rotations are VERY similar however yours is much more limited in flexibility:

1. Your rotation has 9 more steps than mine where ToT is not advised due to your large reliance on 9 FS being successful.

2. This in turn makes it much more complicated to fit in a PT (Assuming you didn't start with 455+ CP).

3. You mention the CP cost of my rotation, however if you don't plan to use INN then the cost is only 422 CP, 15 CP cheaper than yours.

4. Without additional stats (445 CP and 738 craft) and a perfect MMrk phase your rotation only has 11 HT compared to my 12, then 2 average HT failures puts you at 9 HT on average. Combine that with limited places to ToT and consequently PT and you have much less likelihood of reaching 11 stacks.

Your rotation is more stable than mine Progress-wise, but Quality-wise it has much less flexibility. Mine also gets more flexible the higher your stats are where yours stays relatively the same, save for an extra PT with 455 CP to start.

MAMA is a means to fish for precise touch procs .......... using this process for anything but is absurd. Any how please take into consideration what IngenuityI does with rapid... i have no set rotation it adopts but ing+rapid with 800 area crafts ... that is roughly 375 progress. Ignoring this is foolish

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Originally Posted by Sollux

MMrk uses 20 CP. PbP uses 15 CP. CZ will return 14 CP. The entire MMrk section uses 21 CP total meaning if you get more than 1 Good it will essentially be a waste as it isn't worth using ToT for 1 more CP. Using IQ early brings the total cost of the MMrk phase to 39 CP meaning you can ToT 2 Goods and will only lose out on 1 CP, AND pay for IQ at the same time.:

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Your rotation requires 12 FS, you will never be able to take those 2 ToT and still have 12 HT. Taking even one of them means you must spend that extra CP on either buffing your CS2 or SS.

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Originally Posted by Sollux

1. Your rotation has 9 more steps than mine where ToT is not advised due to your large reliance on 9 FS being successful.

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Yours should not be advised as stated above.

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Originally Posted by Sollux

2. This in turn makes it much more complicated to fit in a PT (Assuming you didn't start with 455+ CP).

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Your PT comes at the cost of your 12th HT unless you take a ToT in the same places advised in my rotation, which also allow for a PT under those same circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Sollux

3. You mention the CP cost of my rotation, however if you don't plan to use INN then the cost is only 422 CP, 15 CP cheaper than yours.

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You can also drop the SH in mine and reduce the cost by 22 as yours already drops that SH in favor of a 90% PbP this is no different then your rotation I just add it in to guarantee the progress.

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Originally Posted by Sollux

4. Without additional stats (445 CP and 738 craft) and a perfect MMrk phase your rotation only has 11 HT compared to my 12, then 2 average HT failures puts you at 9 HT on average. Combine that with limited places to ToT and consequently PT and you have much less likelihood of reaching 11 stacks.

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Read all of the above as yours, as is, is an 11 HT rotation unless perfect RNG happens on FS and your progress.

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Originally Posted by Sollux

Your rotation is more stable than mine Progress-wise, but Quality-wise it has much less flexibility. Mine also gets more flexible the higher your stats are where yours stays relatively the same, save for an extra PT with 455 CP to start.

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I do not see much felixibility in your rotation due to the above reasons. At higher craftsmanship both rotations allow for less needed FS and higher CP helps everyone always. I am not saying the rotation is bad, I just do not think it should be posted as a 12 HT rotation as it requires a perfect run in order to do so, unless your stats are much higher then shown in your screen shot of the simulator. I had a very similar RS rotation around somewhere (to reduce progress to 40 dura) and came up with the same results pretty much. I will dig it up, but I believe it used 2 PbP and 1 RS.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...202%20star.png
Your rotation with your posted stats. 9 FS shown as that is the minimum required for your synth.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...0and%20PbP.png

Same stats but with an altered rotation. 8 needed FS (7 if you gained 3 more craft). This is what I had been working on previously, but without very high stats it was not something I planned to post as these threads tend to have people with much less stats then this. I also did not have craft set this high and it required 9 FS when I first worked on it, think it was 812 as my bsm had that amount at the time. As you can see that innovation gives you only 900 quality and is not really needed. You could save the CP and use it for a PT. Just move the CZ back a step as done in my synth to prevent the clipping and add the last HT to your finisher instead.

Now, if I did have your stats I wouldn't use either of our rotations as I have a 3 progress RS ingen 2 rotation worked out (the reason I tossed out my PBP/RS rotation) which has 13 HT and allows for 2 failed FS. Even if 1/2 the RS fail it only drops down to 12 HT.

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Originally Posted by Rath

I do not see much felixibility in your rotation due to the above reasons. At higher craftsmanship both rotations allow for less needed FS and higher CP helps everyone always. I am not saying the rotation is bad, I just do not think it should be posted as a 12 HT rotation as it requires a perfect run in order to do so. I had a very similar RS rotation around somewhere (to reduce progress to 40 dura) and came up with the same results pretty much. I will dig it up, but I believe it used 2 PbP and 1 RS.

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I can see your point in that it isn't necessarily a 12 HT craft without a perfect run but my point is that it has the POTENTIAL to be a 12 HT craft with minimum stats.

If you plan for it to be 11 HT from the start and allow for 1 or 2 FS to be given up for ToT you can turn that CP around into either 1 or 2 guaranteed stacks. It removes the worry of "Can I ToT yet?" during MMrk phase and allows you the freedom to do so. This extra CP also gives you the ability to use a PT should a Good pop up during WNII where you would have had to HT it otherwise.

Every time you're able to use PT you're effectively gaining 20 Durability worth of IQ stacks in 10 Durability which frees up that extra 10 Durability to either account for a failure or be used for something else, such as more Progress if needed. If we assume my rotation will require an extra CSII for completion dropping it down to 11 HT, we can look at potential IQ stacks as such:

No Goods during MMrk
11 80% IQ stacks, room for 1 HT/RS failure

1 Good during MMrk
10 80% IQ stacks, 1/2 guaranteed, room for 1/2 HT/RS failures

2 Goods during MMrk
9 80% IQ stacks, 2/4 guaranteed, room for 1/3 HT/RS failures

Also concerning higher stats, I agree that higher stats will help in general however your rotation relies on 1 more PbP leaving less room for a noticeable change in rotation as you're using less actual Efficiency to complete the craft.

Even though we've proven these crafts can be done at the bare minimum stats I still would recommend anyone attempting them to reach the highest stats they can, prioritizing CP as it is essentially our lifeblood.

Regardless, we both seem to have come up with similar rotations which I find intriguing given the vast complexity of the crafting system itself. I've had a lot of fun coming up with this rotation and I'm extremely pleased at the number of different ways there are now to go about our craft :D

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Originally Posted by Sollux

I can see your point in that it isn't necessarily a 12 HT craft without a perfect run but my point is that it has the POTENTIAL to be a 12 HT craft with minimum stats.

Also concerning higher stats, I agree that higher stats will help in general however your rotation relies on 1 more PbP leaving less room for a noticeable change in rotation as you're using less actual Efficiency to complete the craft.

Even though we've proven these crafts can be done at the bare minimum stats I still would recommend anyone attempting them to reach the highest stats they can, prioritizing CP as it is essentially our lifeblood.

Regardless, we both seem to have come up with similar rotations which I find intriguing given the vast complexity of the crafting system itself. I've had a lot of fun coming up with this rotation and I'm extremely pleased at the number of different ways there are now to go about our craft :D

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If I had your stats, CP and all, I would be doing this.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...202%20star.png

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Originally Posted by Rath

If I had your stats, CP and all, I would be doing this.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...202%20star.png

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That's an interesting idea Rath. Ditch the PbP and basically use FS to fish for CP... and then go into a super duper long hasty touch synth. I like it ;-)

I concur with Rath though for the same reasons he pointed out. I wouldn't quite use your posted rotation as is Sollux... but you are posing some very interesting ideas and I like the direction they are going. At the simplest I would shift an SH 1 up front and the innerquiet back farther into the rotation to stabilize it overall. But as Rath pointed out some other possibilities start to open up. I really like what Rath proposed though its very interesting.

With my stats my usual rotation goes like this:

http://i.imgur.com/En5glWg.png

I personally don't like Ingenuity at all as I've been screwed over before using it and prefer a more flexible rotation. To each their own :D

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Originally Posted by Sollux

I personally don't like Ingenuity at all as I've been screwed over before using it and prefer a more flexible rotation. To each their own :D

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That was one of the parts I found interesting about your rotation being that it doesn't require ingenuity and this means the Rapids can go anywhere the hasty touches are. This means catastrophic failure is less likely to occur and that consuming precise touches is a non issue in rapids typical place. But I don't like that the PbP and entire FS sequence is nakid of any SH. With this said I also know that durability only costs around . One part I don't understand is why are you placing innerquiet up front? Did you know you loose a FS in its place when doing this? Oh... it just occurred to me why you put it up front. You have to consume CP in order to benefit from a FS ToT fishing sequence. So you are paying the cost of your innerquiet up front in hopes of ToTing its cost back (and not maxing CP).

But still durabily costs 26Cp on average... so I think you're better off doing the rotation with SH1 in the front and doing innerquiet later. I think the rotation on average will function much better.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

But still durabily costs 26Cp on average... so I think you're better off doing the rotation with SH1 in the front and doing innerquiet later. I think the rotation on average will function much better.

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You make a really valid point, I'll actually do that instead. I was originally using IQ first as I would YOLO PT a second Good if I got it but since I've changed my rotation that is no longer the case. Thank you for the suggestion!

So this requires 817 craft, 695 control, and 448 cp. It has 13 HT, two of which can be changed for RS if you happen to fail one or both dropping you down to 11-12 HT in those cases. Any ToT taken during FS can change any of the HT into a BT/PT. If you happen to get too many for a single CS2 finish change the last CS2 into SS to finish. So far I have tried this once only and had no need to GS my byregots to finish.

1 Maker's Mark (gsm)
2 Comfort Zone (alch)
3 Flawless Synthesis (gsm)
4 Flawless Synthesis
5 Flawless Synthesis
6 Flawless Synthesis
7 Flawless Synthesis
8 Flawless Synthesis
9 Flawless Synthesis
10 Flawless Synthesis
11 Flawless Synthesis
12 Flawless Synthesis
13 Flawless Synthesis
14 Flawless Synthesis
15 Flawless Synthesis
16 Flawless Synthesis
17 Comfort Zone
18 Inner Quiet
19 Ingenuity II (bsm)
20 Steady Hand II (cul)
21 Rapid Synthesis (arm)
22 Rapid Synthesis
23 Rapid Synthesis (use hasty touch if previous two succeeded)
24 Hasty Touch (can be RS if one failed)
25 Hasty Touch
26 Waste Not (lthr)
27 Steady Hand II
28 Hasty Touch
29 Hasty Touch
30 Hasty Touch
31 Comfort Zone
32 Master's Mend II
33 Steady Hand II
34 Waste Not
35 Hasty Touch
36 Hasty Touch
37 Hasty Touch
38 Hasty Touch
39 Steady Hand II
40 Hasty Touch
41 Hasty Touch
42 Hasty Touch
43 Great Strides
44 Byregot's Blessing (crp)
45 Careful Synthesis II (wvr)

Edit: I did this on bsm, I am not sure if you can use all the required skills on every craft as I have not checked.
Edit: I just checked, each class has a skill required so it is good for all classes.

I use MAMA etc 100% different... depending on class too. Let us assume we are dealing with BSM we have ingenuity...
MAMA
CZ
IQ
STII
FLAWLESS x .... refresh x... any stii and good/excellent precise touch is used. the average amuont of stacks i get is 5.

refresh CZ? probably... depends on if i used Tricks when stii was down etc.. or on the first 3 moves.
Ingenuity
STII
Rapid (roughly 370)
Rapid (same)
Here you may be too close to finish for a rapid :
option: Ingenuity is up, perhaps you got an excellent and used it with precise touch .. burn the bad proc with careful II

other option: hasty till ingenuity falls and rapid (know your numbers and ADAPT to procs..)
generally I dont need a rapid there.

Masters Mend II Yes, at 10 if i got great procs I may gave 7 stacks or even 9 (but low cp... however it IS enough)

70 again, are we finished with progress? ... you may need 2 carefull II's to kill thiis thing.
whatever you do, STII is up and now we are doing hasty's and precise touches depending on CP and IQ stacks. It's not that complicated...

Don't be an idiot if rng completely screwed you DO NOT FINISH IT , RECLAIM IT cause the NQ is useless anyway! Yes you can LOSE EVERYTHING...; dont like reclaim
? well good you have anther area to add a cross skill. 11 stacks with the non scrip ingredients hq (or roughly 1900ish to start) should HQ IT but 12 WILL that extra touch boosts quality at the max control before innovation (assuming you even need it, observe works too)

On leather worker this rotation just won't work....... i mean, there is nothing you can do unless risking alot and ditching stuff. It happens to work fine on weaver blacksmith goldsmith (obviously) and which ever can fit the GSM actions. I will do somethingtotally different if it's LTW , but i keep ingenuity and rapid...

this is no small risk business so do whatever works for you but you must LEARN there is NO SPECIFIC ROTATION here.

Kat u think you can upload a video of your rotation please.? Some people might get a better idea as to how it worked for you. o/

Thanks Mature I'll see if I can upload a video of my new approach this week. Specifically I've updated my front page with a new rotation MaMa's Careful Synth approach with low and higher requirements. I will be recommending this as my preferred approach to others because it's incredibly slick. It will require some classes to drop reclaim (and Armorer will have to choose between ToT or Innovation) but otherwise the approach is rock solid. There are no rapid touches. The Flawless success rates are reasonable (with lower craftsman you will have to substitute one Careful Synth for a later hasty if you fail more than two Flawless Synths).

The goal of the synth was to find a rotation with ultra stable progress while having a Byregot's which was under Ingenuity II and Innovation. Ingenuity II adds around 1300-1500 extra quality while Innovation adds around 1100-1200 extra quality. This effectively reduces the number of inner quiet stacks required to reach 100% (and the number of hasty touches you must succeed). You can hit 100% quality with 9 Inner quite stacks with only 1660 starting quality. Likewise you will always get 10 total hasty attempts and never any less. Any ToT's you pickup during Flawless and outside SHII can be easily used up later as Precise/Basic touches.

Also as show below this approach scales with your gear. I recommend HQ Baked Onion Soup for this approach since it scales directly with Craftsman and CP. You can attempt this rotation successfully with the bare minimum melds just reaching 2 star requirements. Anyway let me know what you think.

Minimum stats with food:
Craftsmanship 718
Control 695+
CP 398 (no Innovation), CP 416 (Innovation), or CP 419 (Innovation and last Hasty gets SHII).

Crossclass skills required:
Comfort Zone (ALC 50), Steady Hand II (CUL 37), Careful Synthesis II (WVR 50), Hasty Touch (CUL 15), Ingenuity II (BSM 50), Flawless Synthesis (Alchemist 37) and Makers Mark (ALC 54)

Kat - MaMa's Careful Synth (Low CP) - Base Requirements: 718 Craftsman and 398 CP. With HQ Baked Onion Soup: 746 Craftsman and 446 CP:

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=vi...UYxb2ZsekEteGM

Kat - MaMa's Careful Synth (Max CP) - Base Requirements: 760 Craftsman and 419 CP. With HQ Baked Onion Soup: 788 Craftsman and 467 CP:

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=vi...HdqZ3FYeE5OUkE

So after doing some testing... I should probably adjust the 760 rotation to list casting inner quiet right after your first CZ. You loose one Flawless synthesis chance... but as it turns out you will max your CP unless you can gain some back. So you have to spend some CP to get to use your Flawless ToTs. If you don't do this you'll max CP after your first ToT (and only get 4 CP back). I'm still debating if you should take ToT or Innovation on Armorer. I think I would recommend Innovation at the minimum stats since ToTing during your flawless would be dangerous. While above 760 craftsman I would recommend ToT (and casting Innerquiet after your first CZ), and fishing a ToT out of your flawless.

Also this same rotation works for 1 star but you will end up getting to cast two unmodified hasty touches (substituted for the last two careful synths during your Waste not II). I'll upload a picture of this a little later.

woah... waste not and carefull II for all that progress imposing a harsh hasty necessity is pretty dangerous. I wouldn't even think of not firing off 2 rapids in these synths and using precise touch. Even if i have to drop innovation i'll use observe but i want my 11+1 stacks at least.

@Katlyna there is a flaw in all your rotations with Maker's Mark and FT, you aren't getting the full benefits from the baiting of good procs that the opening provides. The only cp that is spent in your opening is on Maker's Marker and CZ, Leaving you at -6cp of your max after cz completes. This allows you to only get at most +6cp off the first ToT instead of +20 and no benefits from any ToT thereafter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnimaS

woah... waste not and carefull II for all that progress imposing a harsh hasty necessity is pretty dangerous. I wouldn't even think of not firing off 2 rapids in these synths and using precise touch. Even if i have to drop innovation i'll use observe but i want my 11+1 stacks at least.

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Un-modified hasty touches are only when doing 1 star... and they're just "extra" filler for uneeded careful synths. For one or two star you get 10 SHII hasty touches and Byregot's under the effects of Innovate and Ingenuity II (which is equivalent of one hasty stack each). So in comparison to any other rotation out there right now you need one less inner quiet stack (I haven't seen one yet proposing Byregot's under Ingenuity II). In comparison to any rotation without Innovate you require two less inner quiet stacks.

Its because of this design (and requiring less inner quiet stacks) the overall risk to achieving HQ is higher. Its also the reason the synth is able to achieve 10421 quality without any starting HQ materials. As mentioned with only 1660 starting quality you can reach 100% HQ at 9 stacks. With 2000 starting quality you will still reach ~90% HQ at 8 stacks. So the buffer in this rotation is exceptionally high.

The only vices in my eyes of the MaMa Careful Synth approach are having to drop reclaim (I haven't used it in two months though so I have no issue there), Armorer choosing between ToT and Innovate, and not having innate extra CP for precise/basic. But in comparison to other rotations the overall progress stability and higher innate quality makes up for the last issue.

Here's a version using 843 craftsman and 400 base CP which I printed out for my friend. It was a good exploration for me to figure out high craftsman effects and early completion.

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=vi...0pHRU9NTVc3NDA

So please note high craftsmanship can cause early completion:
If you have 811 or more total craftsmanship you will complete this early if you succeed 14 Flawless synths.
If you have 847 or more total craftsmanship you will complete this early if you succeed 13 Flawless synths.
If you have 878 or more total craftsmanship you will complete this early if you succeed 12 Flawless synths.

In each of these cases you should cast hasty touch in place of the 5th careful synthesis. Also if you have 811 or more craftsmanship you should absolutely cast inner Quiet After your first Comfort Zone.

I just wrapped up crafting my Forgemaster Redingote with the new MaMa Careful Synth rotation I've switched to. Wow its dependable with lovely quality gains. I HQed all four Astral Oil from 0 quality. I then easily HQed all of the Astral silk very easily. Consequently my final synth had 2500 staring quality and was trivial to complete.

I had one "Bad" synth with four failed hasty touches... which still hit 100% quality because I was already starting at 1500 quality, I still was able to reach 8 stacks due to a single ToT proc during the FS phase, which was traded for a later precise (which is used in a good). So in practice you can hit 100% HQ with only 1500 starting quality and 8 stacks if your precise is traded near the end of the sequence.

Due to the length of the synth you almost certainly will end up with one spare ToT to trade for a precise/basic touch. Sometimes you'll end up with two, but it seemed uncommon (since you can't pickup more than one ToT during Flawless cycle, and you shouldn't ToT during Ingenuity or SHII cycles. You can pickup one ToT during the last hasty cycle (since there are only four there).

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Getting used to the rotation takes a bit but its just silly strong IMO, and super stable. I would recommend casting Inner Quiet after the first Comfort Zone once you reach base 760 Craftsman. Below this point you have to hit 11/14 or 12/14 Flawless (depending if you're at minimum stats or slightly above). Statically speaking the odds of failing more than three flawless is very low, but failing more than two can occur with some regularity. So you want to shoot to be allowed to fail three flawless noting that taking a ToT counts against that number.

Anyway let me know if you try the approach out and enjoy it. I may see about trying to get a video showing some synths with it and some of the more dynamic choices you would make.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

Also as show below this approach scales with your gear. I recommend HQ Baked Onion Soup for this approach since it scales directly with Craftsman and CP. You can attempt this rotation successfully with the bare minimum melds just reaching 2 star requirements. Anyway let me know what you think.

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Thanks for the hard work Kat! Question regarding this statement above. You mention Craftmanship scaling so i just wanted to clarify what you meant. Does the Careful Synthesis (low cp) approach require the use of Baked Onion soup (Does it require 746 Craft?)? Or can we use Seafood Stew, effectively keeping craftmanship at the minimum (718) in favor of more control?

Gratz on the Redingote! Did you use the Low CP or Max CP variation?

P.S. Look forward to that video your workin on :p

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

Thanks for the hard work Kat! Question regarding this statement above. You mention Craftmanship scaling so i just wanted to clarify what you meant. Does the Careful Synthesis (low cp) approach require the use of Baked Onion soup (Does it require 746 Craft?)? Or can we use Seafood Stew, effectively keeping craftmanship at the minimum (718) in favor of more control?

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Good question Butta Stackz and thanks for the feedback! I've clarified the front page requirement statements. The required stats including food buff is now at the front in italics so for example:

MaMa Careful Synth (Low CP) - Required stats 746 Craftsman and 446 CP (Character base stats 718 Craftsman, 398 CP and HQ Baked Onion Soup)

So if you wanted to do the Low CP minimum craftsman variant with say HQ Seafood, your character would need 746 Craftsman and 396 CP. So if you have the minimum craftsman you will need to use Baked Onion Soup. Personally I wouldn't switch to HQ Seafood until your character has a base 788 Craftsmanship, at which point you can complete the rotation comfortably with 10 out of 13 Flawless Synths. This is one of the really slick parts of the approach. You can use the rotation at the base required 718 craftsman and with only 398 CP assuming you use HQ Baked Onion Soup... I have the melds listed for that somewhere and they are stupid cheep, not a single IV overmeld required to reach those stats. On the other hand as you pickup your accessories, mainhand, offhand etc; the extra craftsmanship allows you to miss more flawless synths, push inner quiet forward (allowing a ToT to be taken up front), and eventually comfortably swap to HQ Seafood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

Gratz on the Redingote! Did you use the Low CP or Max CP variation?

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Right now I'm using the last picture in my first post Max CP (788 Craftsman and 467 CP). I made all of my two star accessories before anything else. Which I like since the extra CP allows for an extra innovate/precise/basic etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

Crossclass skills required:
Comfort Zone (ALC 50), Steady Hand II (CUL 37), Careful Synthesis II (WVR 50), Hasty Touch (CUL 15), Ingenuity II (BSM 50), Flawless Synthesis (Alchemist 37) and Makers Mark (ALC 54)

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I think there's a typo here? Makers Mark is 54 GSM, not ALC and I think you're missing Waste Not II from the list. Interesting rotation Kat, can't wait to try it out once I finish my melds.

Thanks Levi, I fixed it! That's the kind of silly documentation mistake I make super late at night! Also I have copied my recommended entry melds into this post for reference.