This is the end.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Please try to remember, RiceisNice was not in your group. RiceisNice has also been quite civil in their responses. There's no need to be so personally insulting of them so quickly when they've done nothing wrong to you personally other than question your choices and observe what was mentioned by you. They even admitted they may not understand what went down completely. You aren't helping your case against toxic players by being so toxic yourself.

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Being toxic in game is one thing. All im doing is pointing out that RiceisNice seems to be one of those players by his response to this post.

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Originally Posted by Boosti

Being toxic in game is one thing. All im doing is pointing out that RiceisNice seems to be one of those players by his response to this post.

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I may be missing something, but I don't see anything Rice has said that is toxic.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

To be fair, A3 normal can be tanked in Sword Oath really easily. I personally wouldn't do it in DF though. It's one thing to do stuff lik ethat in my static group where the healers are prepared for it and we know they're geared for it, but when you DF trials and raids you'd think that everyone should just do everything they can to make sure we get through it with a minimum of fuss. As far as gear meaning you don't need to use CD's, that's just a bad/lazy player making excuses for being bad/lazy. There's no reason whatsoever NOT to use them.

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There's nothing to "be fair" about here. Whether or not it can be done isn't the issue, it was the way all of it went down. It was the fact that the name calling and harassment jumped as quickly as it did. This was just an example, but I am honestly amazed when I see any sort of DF run where someone doesn't treat it like a hardcore raid and goes out of their way to be a jerk to someone.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Just reminding that people have to remember not everyone knows everything about this game or how things work. People will never know what others want unless they let them know. Also helping others by letting them know what is good goes way farther than yelling at them, name calling, shaming, kicking them out of groups etc.

Considering how defensive OP is getting even in his own topic likely he was not innocent and fueled the dispute in which he got kicked though. But my posts are more in general and the fact it does happen that players just immediately rage instead of talking to the other player calmly first and ask questions or make suggestions.

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Well said. I always have to shake my head when I see someone berating another player and then see them question why that player isn't learning anything. You may know a lot and be right...but when you decide that you're above basic human decency, many people tend to tune out what you're saying.

Might help to transfer away from the North American data center, and to always report abusive people. Those people crossed the line and it's unfortunate that they spoiled your enjoyment. We have some Americans on our EU recommended worlds (soon to have its own data center) who prefer our community. Most but not all people are calm here.

On an unrelated note... Boosti - It's spelled Ballad.

Sorry, seeing "mage's bailed" repeatedly was driving me nuts. >.> <.<

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Originally Posted by Boosti

to RiceisNice

I turned bailed off when they first got on me about it. And its people like you that expect way to much out of people. Im 100% sure that your one of those asshole players that would have kicked somebody for no reason other then being a self centered egotistical toxic human and expect perfection out of everybody. Hate to tell you the truth but not everybody is perfect like you.

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This is what I'm talking about, since now you're throwing out my statements out of proportion. I don't expect perfect performance, I don't even expect people to push raid or savage tier performance and I even mentioned it before you responded to me. I don't even encourage this sort of attitude to harass people for playing poorly or unjust kicking.

I said that we only have your perspective and we're taking everything by your word of mouth, and I gave one type of perspective that's on the other side. I mentioned that you were just as at fault because you essentially told them to bugger off despite them telling you what you're doing was not beneficial to the party, and according to you, never said anything afterwards. Instead of giving me clarification and more depth of what happened in that party, you called me out as being one of those players in your party who kicked you out. If you saw that as being a toxic player, then really all that does is give me an impression of how reactive you are to people that are against you.

There's no attempt to a resolution between the two parties, instead both sides are lashing out at each other. It takes two sides for something to erupt. If only one side is persisting and that leads to a kick, then that's more than enough to be an unjust kick. If I was healing a party, stayed in cleric stance and never contributed dps because I felt like it (and I made that vocally clear no less), it's well into player dispute and unfortunately, GMs won't do anything about that. If I hadn't said anything and the other side did not voice the fact that I'm in cleric stance (and hurting their party), it's not a player dispute, and for all we know, they could've kicked me for shiggles...which is what GMs would take actions against.

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Originally Posted by Boosti

i know it lowers your DPS. it was just an act of were smashing the mobs really fast why not let the Healer have some fun.

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If the healer felt 'having a little fun' was to not heal, but to DPS instead, then why did they make a healer? Unless somebody asks for something that lets them move out of their primary role - don't presume that is what they desire.

That said this confuses me. I thought Mage's Ballad refreshed MP, not gave healers a DPS boost. It seems like the ONLY time one would want to use it is when somebody is running out of MP, or you're sitting there at the start of the dungeon in the little circle bored while somebody watches a cutscene and you forgot to keybind your dance emote...


Very often the 'toxic' issue comes down to somebody who goofed in game, got called on it, and rather than just move on got aggressive back.
- If they call you on a mistake politely, thank them.
- If they call you on a mistake rudely, ignore them.

Doing either of those will lead to vastly lower chances of a 'toxic' experience. Sure some people will keep at it, but most will just move on with their attention.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

This is exactly what I think too. Even if he was really being a bad DPS, it's not and excuse to be harassed that way.

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agreed 100%

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Originally Posted by Melondra

Ever since the game was launched I noticed all the trash came out of the woodwork this game had a awesome community during Pre-Alpha Alpha 1-Beta-4 that was a great community. After the game launched you now have all these elitest trash on these servers. Most of the population is still quite good but there still is a lot of immature people on this game now.

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I've played several MMOs over the years. From City of Heroes to WoW to Guild Wars 1 and 2, Wildstar, Everquest 2, Champions Online, and probably a few others sampled...

In every last one of them I've read people make this statement: Back in my day the community was great, now it sucks. In every one of them I've mostly been able to avoid the issue.
Sure I have noticed that games with random group finders have the worst communities (excepting current Wildstar because its so small the random thing always groups you with the same other people...) But even then if you can avoid having an ego attack back - you can avoid the bad elements.

They're assholes, sure, but you're taking them into consideration too much.

Take care of your own DPS first, if they need you to ballad, they'll ask you. As for quitting the game over this, well... i mean it's your call but personally i think that would be a silly response to a couple of asshats you'll never see or speak to again.

S'all right man. If you decide to never want to play FFXIV again, it's all good. You're gonna come across mouthbreathers like that no matter where you are in life or what you do, online or IRL. I personally avoid doing stuff in DF if at all possible, or keep it to a minimum. I can play my job fine, but I still resent the general populous. As a result, I try to avoid doing endgame content in closely observable situations with pugs. Not just because I hate the idea of encountering people like that and interacting with them, but also because it'd likely happen to someone else in the group. In larger chaotic situations like PvP or 24man raids, despite the higher likelihood, I don't mind it as much. I guess it's because I naturally expect it to happen as an almost guarantee, so I simply block out chat, just as I do RMT /tells.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

If the healer felt 'having a little fun' was to not heal, but to DPS instead, then why did they make a healer? Unless somebody asks for something that lets them move out of their primary role - don't presume that is what they desire.

That said this confuses me. I thought Mage's Ballad refreshed MP, not gave healers a DPS boost. It seems like the ONLY time one would want to use it is when somebody is running out of MP, or you're sitting there at the start of the dungeon in the little circle bored while somebody watches a cutscene and you forgot to keybind your dance emote...


Very often the 'toxic' issue comes down to somebody who goofed in game, got called on it, and rather than just move on got aggressive back.
- If they call you on a mistake politely, thank them.
- If they call you on a mistake rudely, ignore them.

Doing either of those will lead to vastly lower chances of a 'toxic' experience. Sure some people will keep at it, but most will just move on with their attention.

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Actually, for the 2nd one, you've already experienced the "toxic" portion lol. Really, it's ONLY the first one.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

Whether they were right about the ballad thing or not, it's not really important. Is there ever a reason for people to act that way? I've seen people act like that and be totally wrong about the premise that they were belittling over.

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I think this sums it up. I looked through this thread and I see that a lot of people brought up inefficiency in DPS, but quite honestly, it's just a game. The way we're treating people should always be more important than the mechanics of the game.

There's a way to say things without coming off as rude. I honestly prefer to just not say anything at all if it's not really important. I ran Stone Vigil as MCH with a BRD that wasn't aware that a Promoted Rook Autoturret restored TP, so he kept playing Army's Paeon. Did it lower DPS? Sure. Was it important? Not really. Nobody cared, and the dungeon only took a few seconds longer than is usually would have. He was doing what he thought was best. Funny thing is, he actually stepped backwards into my turret and realized what it did, and I believe he stopped playing songs so frequently afterward.

We all had fun, the dungeon went well, and he learned something new without any strife.

But I've also been on the receiving end of things, where people try to tell me how to play my job. Quite frankly, if they come off as condescending or indignant, then I just ignore them. They typically don't say anything else. And if they really have a problem with the fact that I used Medica II instead of Cure III, they can (and in some cases, do) leave. It's just a dungeon. This isn't T9 Savage or anything, where every little button press can mean life or death.

Keep playing, if you want, and just learn to ignore the people that insult you. But also be wary that the way you word things don't come off as offensive, either. You never know how the person you're talking to might receive what you're saying.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I don't see anything Rice has said that is toxic.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Combine that with above, I can see why some people can get upset with what you're doing (me included). You're giving off the impression that you're free to become a burden to your party. <snip for char limit> I'm fine with people genuinely do not know their class and listen to advice, I'm not fine with people that don't ever communicate and play terribly and essentially get carried.

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unless there is some saving grace that will fix this toxic community from the egotistical ass holes that consume it.

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Says the person that feels they can play how they want regardless of how it affects the party.

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Nowhere, did Boosti say he believes he was trying to screw party in any way, shape or form. Nowhere do I see an attitude of God's gift to FFXIV coming from his post, however, I DO see Riceisnice [and a couple of other folks] jumping to conclusions.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

Nowhere, did Boosti say he believes he was trying to screw party in any way, shape or form. Nowhere do I see an attitude of God's gift to FFXIV coming from his post, and I DO see Riceisnice [and a couple of other folks] jumping to conclusions.

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Yes, I'm clearly jumping to conclusions when I'm saying that his perspective isn't the only one in a party of 4.

Whether or not he was intentionally slowing down the party, the matter of fact is, he was. What he did say is that he shouldn't be told how to play his class, ineffective or not. And between the two of us, only one of us accused the other to be an asshole. There are things to take in perspective in general (like courtesy and not being a total A-hole when telling people they're doing something wrong), but I'm trying to speak in perspective of the scenario in this topic as well.

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Originally Posted by Boosti

So the other bard in my party is telling me i'm worthless

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Dude you were in a 4 man dungeon and got stuck with TWO bards for dps??? Really...wow

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Originally Posted by Justsomeguy

Well, this community isn't actually that bad (especially when you compare to almost every other MMO on the market) Whenever I get a bad egg in my party I just laugh at their stupidity, I mean...if they're like that here they surely must be a bitter, angry person in real life too.

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The community IS bad. I'm told my DPS is bad, but I'm usually the target of a mob/boss when the main tank die. Then they said it's because I crit a lot. Then they say my numbers SHOULD be higher. It's the reason now why I'm a casual and no longer hardcore. I just do a few dungeons and log off.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

Nowhere, did Boosti say he believes he was trying to screw party in any way, shape or form. Nowhere do I see an attitude of God's gift to FFXIV coming from his post, and I DO see Riceisnice [and a couple of other folks] jumping to conclusions.

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Not many people who are trying to screw their party over will openly admit it. Boosti did give off the impression that he was not going to stop/didn't stop playing ballad though. Not saying he was trying actively to screw the party over, but he was seemingly refusing to listen to their reasonable request judging by what transpired in his own words.

You can't really say RiceisNice is being toxic just because they're bringing up some inconsistencies in the story, and RiceisNice has already said they may not be understanding the whole thing. Whether that's because of the rest of the party's side being left out, or just bad wording on Boosti's part, who knows. But the disclaimer has been made.

Boosti on the other hand has made some direct personal insults towards RiceisNice when they have already said they may not be understanding the story right, just because they gave gave criticism about Boosti's choice of playing ballad. Criticism that was correct and delivered civilly.

And if Boosti did continue to play ballad despite the party clearly not wanting him to (it's rational to think he did, since why else would the party get mad at him later on again when he hadn't said anything?), despite it affecting the party negatively, then it isn't toxic on Rice's part to call him out for continuing to do it and hurt the party. Refusing to listen to the party's wishes or listen to advice is toxic behavior. They could have been nicer about it, sure, especially if their first reaction was what Boosti claimed, but they were right that he was sacrificing considerable dps by playing ballad when it wasn't needed, and therefore hurting the party. Refusing to stop doing that is toxic, and in a way, intentional. Ignorance of job function may not be, but ignoring the party's reasonable request is intentional.

Also don't see why you think Rice thinks they're "god's gift". They gave valid criticism of the choice to play ballad, asked about/criticized inconsistencies, mentioned the 2nd party's side of the story, and even admitted they may be wrong.

Two or three people ridicule you (be it justly or otherwise) and the entire community is toxic?

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Originally Posted by Boosti

That was it nothing else was said by me. Then all hell broke loose i was told i'm a worthless retard and suck at the game and then was kicked out of the dungeon. Today will be the last time I get on this game, unless there is some saving grace that will fix this toxic community from the egotistical ass holes that consume it. I love Final Fantasy but this happens to much to make me enjoy a game that is no longer fun. If other have had this please let me know your story and how it has effected you.

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Never quit a game because of people you dont know, and you will never see again.

Whenever i meet people like that, i always see them as an act of entertainment, because i find them very laughable and they actually make me feel alot better.

I believe 2 forums that shall go unnamed are chiefly responsible for cultivating this climate of antisocial behavior, one of which was also responsible for fomenting a toxic climate in FFXI. The people in these forums aggressively promote a cookie-cutter mentality in the name of "efficiency" and seem to be OK with people berating others from straying the slightest from this orthodoxy.

That other Bard had absolutely no right to go after this guy as long as thing were going well in the dungeon. As bad as this situation got, I can only imagine what things would look like if parsers were implemented.

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Originally Posted by Boosti

i know it lowers your DPS. it was just an act of were smashing the mobs really fast why not let the Healer have some fun. And even if they use AOE dps it cost's a lot of mana. But yeah your right about the DPS drop. i also had wanderers minuet up to kinda get rid of it.

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If you want to let a healer DPS and have some fun, use Foe's instead. Then what nukes they can toss can count for 10% more. And its no cost of damage to you.

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Originally Posted by Charisma

Never quit a game because of people you dont know, and you will never see again.

Whenever i meet people like that, i always see them as an act of entertainment, because i find them very laughable and they actually make me feel alot better.

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I'll admit that I quit for two months because of an issue I was having with my damage out. I play totally different now; one way being that I don't volunteer to join anything battle-related unless it's a 4-man dungeon.

Another "I quit, love me so I don't quit" thread.

Seriously though, you might not even meet them on the next run, even if they're on your server you can just blacklist them and be done with it.

I don't care who's right or wrong, but if that's all what it takes to make you quit, then I don't think you like the game that much anyway.

Play on a Japanese Server lol.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I'll admit that I quit for two months because of an issue I was having with my damage out. I play totally different now; one way being that I don't volunteer to join anything battle-related unless it's a 4-man dungeon.

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That's insane. You don't have to be the best player to enjoy all the content. Sure, Extreme/Savages may be a pain, but even so you can ask in-game friends for a try. Volunteer, if they kick you, blacklist and queue again. I'm so done with elitist people irl and yet it seems we gotta handle this type of thing here too everyday.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

Dude you were in a 4 man dungeon and got stuck with TWO bards for dps??? Really...wow

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That's even more of a reason NOT to be Ballading.

In general, you shouldn't be using Ballad in dungeons unless the healer (or sometimes the tank) is really scraping the bottom of their MP. If you want to boost their DPS, use Foe's Req instead. That won't hurt your DPS in the process.

@OP

I know that it sucks being kicked from a dungeon, especially for no reason. You will run into jerk players, that's just how it works in every game. But I believe you're overreacting. If you've played since the beginning, one instance of being kicked by some egotistical players isn't a reason to quit altogether.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

That's insane. You don't have to be the best player to enjoy all the content. Sure, Extreme/Savages may be a pain, but even so you can ask in-game friends for a try. Volunteer, if they kick you, blacklist and queue again. I'm so done with elitist people irl and yet it seems we gotta handle this type of thing here too everyday.

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Thanks!

I wasn't aiming to be the best, but being DPS, it was expected from others. I tried switching to PLD, but people gave little room for learning/mistakes. The way I play now allows for two things:

- I can play at my own pace and progress accordingly.
- Instead of keep pushing when frustration kicks in, I can not log off and play something else with no regrets.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

I'm so done with elitist people irl and yet it seems we gotta handle this type of thing here too everyday.

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How DARE people expect others to be up to par and not a detriment to the team.

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Originally Posted by Elazu

How DARE people expect others to be up to par and not a detriment to the team.

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I mean...I get that if this was an end game raid situation. And I can get preferring people to do their best. But the fact remains is we have a whole lot of people in this game that loose their minds if someone doesn't perform to their expectations...in the 2 extreme roulette 4 man dungeons. You know...those dungeons we've been doing since ilvl 145 (and where much of the community is currently over ilvl 180). Is it really worth making it a crisis or personal insult against you that someone's performance may make the run take a few minutes longer? Yeah, I get it...I'm tired of those dungeons too...but I've seen a lot of bad play that could be slowing down the team...and it's just not worth it to get worked up over.

Ultimately, if you can't stand the idea of being teamed up with players who won't live up to your expectations, don't use duty roulette. It's designed to be a trade off. You get the luxury of not having to build your own party and having access to a larger recruitment pool, but with no control over who you get.

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Originally Posted by Anubis_Nephthys

You must not be aware that mage's ballad cuts your own damage by 20%

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And you must not be aware that it is 15% actually...


Well OP we all been there, I once thought foe requiem carried a damage penalty and that straight shot was better than heavy shot because you can clearly see the bard shooting 2 arrows hi logic.


I don't agree with the harsh manner in which you learnt, it could have been relayed in a nicer way. But yh if the healer is dpsing, and if he isn't a total idiot, he'll know an mp level he should not drop his mp below. He'll most likely also have mp regen skills in reserve. You should however always play foe requiem for a dpsing healer. Gives him more damage without reducing your own.

Again, we probably all had experiences like you had, just have to move on m8.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

..

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There's having absurdly high expectations, and there's performing extremely poorly; I mean to the extent of people who spam their 3rd hit combo without acutally comboing, or leaving on the wrong stance the entire time. I personally don't think its that high of an expectation for people to not hurt their own dps by needlessly singing or using regen, or god forbid a DRG that does nothing but spam full thrust or omit their chaos thrust combo.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

And you must not be aware that it is 15% actually...


Well OP we all been there, I once thought foe requiem carried a damage penalty and that straight shot was better than heavy shot because you can clearly see the bard shooting 2 arrows hi logic.


I don't agree with the harsh manner in which you learnt, it could have been relayed in a nicer way. But yh if the healer is dpsing, and if he isn't a total idiot, he'll know an mp level he should not drop his mp below. He'll most likely also have mp regen skills in reserve. You should however always play foe requiem for a dpsing healer. Gives him more damage without reducing your own.

Again, we probably all had experiences like you had, just have to move on m8.

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It's still pointless damage loss in OP's situation. He was told to turn it off because it's not needed and detrimental to his DPS, and the only thing we have was that he practically told them "dont tell others how to play" and it led to an eventual kick. At that point, he wasn't in any better just for being just as dismissive toward his party.

I disagree strongly with the phrase "The community is toxic." I'm part of this community and when you say that, you're lumping me in with jerks like the ones you've described. People can be rude in online games: SO what? Are you really going to let yourself be put off something you enjoy doing because somewhere out there, some prick you'll never meet again in this life was rude to you? How dramatic is that? Try getting a seat on a crowded Subway sometime. The shit I've had directed on me during my morning commute to work has never kept me off the subway.

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Originally Posted by Boosti

i know it lowers your DPS. it was just an act of were smashing the mobs really fast why not let the Healer have some fun. And even if they use AOE dps it cost's a lot of mana. But yeah your right about the DPS drop. i also had wanderers minuet up to kinda get rid of it.

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No one cares... Just quit.

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Originally Posted by Biohazard901

No one cares... Just quit.

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With people telling everyone to quit, you will then whine that the game is dead because there's no community activity.

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Originally Posted by Biohazard901

No one cares... Just quit.

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Well, obviously people care about the subject or we wouldn't be responding with helpful advice. This isn't New Eden for Christ's sake.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Snip

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And the fact remains. Duty roulette is a convenience with a reasonable trade off. If you cannot tolerate the potential of being teamed with 'lesser' players, or lack the patience to try to help those players in a respectful way, random parties through roulette are not designed with you in mind. Take the time to form your own parties with the people you deem worthy. Everyone wins in the end.

Believe it or not, WoW makes this game look like some kind of Utopia, and I hear League of Legends is even worse.

This game is actually pretty chill, just from my experience. I've had a bad group or two, but all and all, the community has seemed pretty decent.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

With people telling everyone to quit, you will then whine that the game is dead because there's no community activity.

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No I'll move on to another game.