Accuracy: Can it just go away?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pushin_tin

Most of the people in here advocating adding reforging to XIV probably used Reforgelite or some other comparable addon in WoW.

---

I did. And had the mount for reforge on the fly.

And I don't want it here either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan

You can't give players 100% hit rate and then expect the mobs to be able to miss.

Accuracy is a stat that makes you make choices. It's one of the few stats that you need a certain level before you start min/maxing other stats. So it has a purpose.

---

Interestingly enough, that's how it works in WoW.

Tanks can dodge, block and parry. If the mob's high enough compared to your level, you still miss. Level + 3 is capped entirely. Anything over that and you're SoL because there's no more hit. Bosses are always level cap + 3 for evasion and accuracy purposes.

Yes please.

I'm scared to think of future content without accuracy on healer gear.

I do not understand SE's viewpoint of "let's punish healers who want to play exceptionally by not letting them dps".

Punished for being able to play good...like what?

I don't think I'll be able to heal in the future if I miss so much that I'm literally forced to stand there semi-afk because people don't need healing and I can't DPS. Way too boring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

People already complain about clearing content very fast in a day or so. Accuracy is there to make it a handicap. Done. XI stat system is way better than what we have now.

---

Your lack of knowledge paired with your outspoken opinions on this game baffles me...

Accuracy is only a factor in Savage Alexander, as of this day. Nobody is complaining that it is too easy, and in fact floor 4 has yet to be cleared. It's not a handicap, it's an easy number to hit, but it's obnoxious to hit the cap. "Done."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Cuz it makes moves like Featherfoot and DA Dark Dance completely useless. I'm not down for everything in the world hitting when I'm like 50 levels above mobs.

---

Actually, it wouldn't. It would work by making dodge % not dependent on accuracy at all. Players and Enemies start with 0% dodge, and can gain dodge from buffs and abilities. This does mean that you can no longer stack accuracy to get around enemies gaining dodge stacks (griffin boss?), but it also means that you no longer need accuracy to be able to hit an enemy that's not actively attempting to dodge your attacks.

As for things far below your level missing you...those things should do negligible damage when they hit anyway, and does it hurt you to have to dodge AoEs to avoid getting stunned or petrified? If you really want this, ok...every creature gets +2% dodge and +2% accuracy (both flat) per level. Done.

--Erim Nelhah

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

Then remove accuracy from caster gear. Give them magic accuracy, like we had in 1.x

---

How would that change anything? 700 magic accuracy would still be 200 wasted stat.

I don't really have anything against accuracy per se, but I just wish there was some other gear you could swap on or something, if you have hundreds of extra accuracy that does nothing for you.

lol...?

/jokes too
Okay then: lets remove crit too! Because its not woking everytime I hit something! - so... useless stat!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renault

Stuff.

---

http://i.imgur.com/DxHKHUp.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erim-Nelhah

--Erim Nelhah

---

Just no. People already complaining about how most stats are "useless" and need a buff and now we got people wanting the removal of stats. SE is not gonna go out their way to make the 1.3% of the population when we can make the other 98.7% happy with other things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

Yes please.

I'm scared to think of future content without accuracy on healer gear.

I do not understand SE's viewpoint of "let's punish healers who want to play exceptionally by not letting them dps".

Punished for being able to play good...like what?

I don't think I'll be able to heal in the future if I miss so much that I'm literally forced to stand there semi-afk because people don't need healing and I can't DPS. Way too boring.

---

Guess you glossed over the various reposts of the Square interview where Yoshida stated he was genuinely surprised at seeing that healers were DDing with the rest of the group when not healing. Square's prevailing view on healers till recently was that that's all they did, heal. Alexander Savage is the first time Square has balanced content with healer DDing taken into consideration. It's not that you're being punished, it's that you weren't really doing your job according to Square.

Of course, now that Square has done that, people are having problems with Alexander Savage's various DPS checks, like Square was expecting certain players to be doing something.

What about making accuracy a function of your primary stat?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

snip

---

Regardless of how they word it, it's still punishment in practice. Keeping people alive, preferably comfortably if you're not a risk taker, is doing your job as a healer. DPSing instead of semi-afking when everyone isn't dying is going above and beyond. Now we're being crippled in our ability to do that optimally.

SE should really re-add accuracy to healer gear or just remove accuracy as a mechanic if they're balancing content with healer dps in mind. Makes little sense to have accuracy on healer gear before content was balanced for healer dps, then remove it when content is actually balanced for healer dps.

We are being quite thoroughly punished if we're expected to dps now by square without actually getting the accuracy to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

Guess you glossed over the various reposts of the Square interview where Yoshida stated he was genuinely surprised at seeing that healers were DDing with the rest of the group when not healing. Square's prevailing view on healers till recently was that that's all they did, heal. Alexander Savage is the first time Square has balanced content with healer DDing taken into consideration. It's not that you're being punished, it's that you weren't really doing your job according to Square.

Of course, now that Square has done that, people are having problems with Alexander Savage's various DPS checks, like Square was expecting certain players to be doing something.

---

I'm pretty sure they came out and said they don't include healer DPS when balancing any of the fights but they are looking at tank dps. Here's the link.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

Yes please.

I'm scared to think of future content without accuracy on healer gear.

I do not understand SE's viewpoint of "let's punish healers who want to play exceptionally by not letting them dps".

Punished for being able to play good...like what?

I don't think I'll be able to heal in the future if I miss so much that I'm literally forced to stand there semi-afk because people don't need healing and I can't DPS. Way too boring.

---

I agree, but you know not all people like to be useful. They want to do as little as possible. Why dps, when I can pick my nose for 10s before the next required heal?

Instead of making the actual healing more demanding, they reduced the chances to dps. And considering they're throwing all the dps checks now even on mid-tier content, how was that a good decision?

Make misses not miss but do 1/3 DMG instead.

As a tank... there is nothing wrose then doing end game for the 1st few time not over geared and my hate rotations misses 2 step.

Remove accuracy. Then people would be allowed to get the gear they want, in whatever order they would like, as well as play the style they want to, as in stacking up their favorite stat or keeping them all balanced without having to worry about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

If not get rid of it, at least make excess accuracy do something beneficial instead of becoming a pure waste.

---

The best option might actually be to take a page out of World of Warcraft's book, though it's slightly unintuitive. You would reach 100% hit rate with special attacks (i.e. anything actually pushed a button for) at a much lower accuracy number than was needed to reach 100% hit rate for auto attacks.

With that in place, everyone gets at least the low threshold (so that you don't miss an action and break up your combo), but accuracy beyond that is still increasing your overall damage by making more of your auto attacks connect.

While we're at it, I think we should make all rotations a max of 3 buttons. It's not fun with more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syrehn

I'm pretty sure they came out and said they don't include healer DPS when balancing any of the fights but they are looking at tank dps.

---

Yep I remember this. If it really was an issue, SE will fix it. For now, they don't see it as an issue.

hell yeah i love accuracy. i love stats that are completely useless if you have more than an arbitrary amount, but if you have less than than arbitrary number it's a huge damage loss. what's the number??? who knows. not gonna tell you. also the number changes all the time.

accuracy blows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syrehn

I'm pretty sure they came out and said they don't include healer DPS when balancing any of the fights but they are looking at tank dps.

---

No, it was healers. Took forever but I finally found the interview (or forum posts reposting the interview, anyway).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DGladius

From this thread http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...erview-summary

* Heavensward expects Healers to DPS. They increased the offensive power of the WHM, not because they want them to be real DPS but because they first didn't expect the players to have the healers DPS in coil, they were surprised to see the top parties do that and they changed their plan. When they do the new raid they now takes healer dps into consideration, that will be a major difference between alexander normal and hard, in the normal mode dps check they don't take into account the healers' damages.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marxam

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...erview-summary
Source: http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs...26_703330.html

This thread has a good summary of the info from the gamewatch interview at Nantes and while I can't find the exact quote from google translate it does state that they were surprised to see healer dps in coil so are considering it in the hard mode of Alexander.

Here is the broken google translate from the jp doc:

Quote:

---

- If you do not extend so much and so much to see as a whole?

Yoshida:　 That's right. Since both all jobs at a level 60 DPS than ever are rising, it is only meaning that extends by the amount commensurate also White Mage. The original development team, such as large labyrinth Bahamut, assumes the item level that would of general arms players can be cleared at the time of the raid capture. By summing the foundation DPS of 4DPS a tank has reached its assumption item level, it makes a clear assumption further by lowering the 15% threshold from 10%. DPS of healer does not take into calculation.

　But, certainly people in the world's top level, since the fastest capture conflict, than the item-level development has been assumed, it aims to clear at a lower item level. Sonaruto, only basic DPS of 4DSP and the tank is numerically will not be able to clear, the results, if there is a DPS to put out, will try to capture They have also calculated DPS healer by many DPS even a little, that. If they clear the video comes out, because the healer has also issued a DPS, "healer also the DPS!" But is often think, it is a situation that has occurred since "trying to clear with the impossible." By foot cut a numeric value this fully, but in the following assumption item level I also possible to make so as not to be cleared, So the high people of the players skills, increase mutual understanding and items understanding of all and to devise , to clear with the last minute of the last minute, it would end up eliminating the play called. Although it is a difficult decision, but I think still wonder if soon fixed the party's policy.

　This is also the cause of the reasons for this time Kiko Castle Alexander was supposed to implement two of the normal and hard. Again, the development team because it does not include the DPS of healer to capture the raid, compared also with other jobs in the current level cap open, I want you to think that only the sum of the rise of as healer .

---

---

Append:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syrehn

I believe that was a confirmed as a mistranslation. See the direct quote here.

---

Nice find, but really just says more of the same, that Coil healers blew their minds when they took time to DD instead of healing and that Alexander Savage has been balanced around it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

No, it was healers. Took forever but I finally found the interview (or forum posts reposting the interview, anyway).

---

I believe that was confirmed as a mistranslation. See the direct quote here.


Append

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

Append:Nice find, but really just says more of the same, that Coil healers blew their minds when they took time to DD instead of healing and that Alexander Savage has been balanced around it.

---

No it really isn't more of the same because it doesn't say that savage is balanced around healer DPS. It actually specifically says it's not on this line:

Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

And this line:

This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syrehn

And this line:

This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.

---

I read that line a little differently. It's oddly worded if they didn't intend to take healer DDing into account for Savage, there'd have been no reason to have the mode right at the start otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

I read that line a little differently. It's oddly worded if they didn't intend to take healer DDing into account for Savage, there'd have been no reason to have the mode right at the start otherwise.

---

I read that as being something like this: "We've designed endgame raids (like Alex Savage) around players having a certain ilvl (200?). In doing so, we took the dps that the DDs+Tanks are expected be able to do during that fight, subtracted 10-15%, and used that to set the enrage timers. If your team's average ilvl is below the ilvl we designed the fight for, and your Tanks + DDs can't come up with the DPS required because of it, your healers may be able to dps as a last resort to make up the difference."

Make sense?

--Erim Nelhah

You guys do realize that every final fantasy game had missed hits? It sucks, especially when you need that hit to connect, but it is an rpg fundamental. At least this game allows you to make it obsolete. It's not useless not pointless, it's part of what makes a game a game in the first place.

At least they shouldn't do this till they have some other secondary stat ideas to make up for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

You guys do realize that every final fantasy game had missed hits? It sucks, especially when you need that hit to connect, but it is an rpg fundamental. At least this game allows you to make it obsolete. It's not useless not pointless, it's part of what makes a game a game in the first place.

---

Yeah, we should all be grateful this isn't one of those games that:

Has misses, but has no way to boost your accuracy thru gear. (iirc ff7 and probably others)
Has misses, has accuracy gear, but still leaves you able to miss. (ffxi)

We're in a better spot than both those situations at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

At least they shouldn't do this till they have some other secondary stat ideas to make up for it.



Yeah, we should all be grateful this isn't one of those games that:

Has misses, but has no way to boost your accuracy thru gear. (iirc ff7 and probably others)
Has misses, has accuracy gear, but still leaves you able to miss. (ffxi)

We're in a better spot than both those situations at least.

---

Crap is still crap. Its best to take it out before it gets too smelly.

I don't see how you can "miss" against huge monsters we fight anyways.

What are we...

https://cbsbaltimore.files.wordpress...m-troopers.jpg

Best solution would be to have it scale with iLvl and no longer be a secondary, IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arashmin

Best solution would be to have it scale with iLvl and no longer be a secondary, IMO.

---

That would be a great fix! ...then the game would still need other ideas for secondary stats; there's too little variety in gear as is.

Let's remove everything in this game and make this a facebook game =\
Everything is unfun =\

@allistaire ffxi ^^ nothing worse than popping your 2hr and having it miss attacks(last ditch mighty strikes comes to mind), and ppl here complain about missing an an 1/3 of a rotation #getagrip

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

@allistaire ffxi ^^ nothing worse than popping your 2hr and having it miss attacks(last ditch mighty strikes comes to mind), and ppl here complain about missing an an 1/3 of a rotation #getagrip

---

So what you're trying to say is...The mechanic/stat wasn't fun before, and it's still unfun...So we should all get over it?

No, if something sucks, you change it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syrehn

I believe that was confirmed as a mistranslation. See the direct quote here.
Append

No it really isn't more of the same because it doesn't say that savage is balanced around healer DPS. It actually specifically says it's not on this line:
Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

And this line:

This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.

---

Its not from that interview, there was another one where yoshi said something about that coil damage was much higher than expected - not that from the interview you linked. in that other interview he clearly said the difference was because of healer DPS and that they will take it into considederation when designing alexander savage mode (it was an earlier interview longer ago). If they have or not we can not tell, but to clear things up (from current understanding and newer interviews):

They designed the savage mode for lets say ilvl 210 fullequip, but we can not gain it because weekly cap, so the server first players need to fill that with healer dps...

So to make a drama out of it they design hard content like this:
1st unbeatable phase for about 3 months because weekly cap and forced undergearing
2nd normal phase with expected gearlevel for advanced players (3 more months)
3rd new gear and echobuff for catching up and normal players (higher ilvl gear)

Edit: as we see -> They indeed balancing DPS around healer DPS because compared to coil even server first players are struggeling very hard...

If accuracy goes away, won't you miss it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

@allistaire ffxi ^^ nothing worse than popping your 2hr and having it miss attacks(last ditch mighty strikes comes to mind), and ppl here complain about missing an an 1/3 of a rotation #getagrip

---

Ah those were the days. Kids these days don't know how good they got it now sadly. :/

@renault no, you're saying it's not fun. I never said such a thing. What I did say is you whine about missing 1-2/3 abilities on a (tops) 2.5 sec gcd, and at one time I'd miss attacks on an ability that was on a 2hr gcd and still didn't whine about it on a forum calling for a fundamental stat to RPGs as a whole to be eliminated. #nicetrythough

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renault

So what you're trying to say is...The mechanic/stat wasn't fun before, and it's still unfun...So we should all get over it?

No, if something sucks, you change it.

---

"Unfun" isn't an argument. It's an opinion and subjective. It adds more depth to the system as opposed to mindlessly stacking gear and creates a balance on the verticality of sub stats. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that there is something intrinisically wrong with it or that it is bad. Plan to stack accuracy to compensate for piece losses and it's a non issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dante_V

It adds more depth to the system

---

No it doesn't. You either stack accuracy and are baseline, or don't stack accuracy and are garbage. That is the polar opposite of depth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dante_V

"Unfun" isn't an argument. It's an opinion and subjective. It adds more depth to the system as opposed to mindlessly stacking gear and creates a balance on the verticality of sub stats. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that there is something intrinisically wrong with it or that it is bad. Plan to stack accuracy to compensate for piece losses and it's a non issue.

---

The stat does not add depth to the system, in fact it takes away from it. All the stat does is force people to artifically hit a cap so they can properly do content and force it to be slower then it has to be. It isn't fun, nore enjoyable and it does not bring ANY depth to the game. Period, it is the exact same thing as the "hit" stat in RIFT and the Critical Mitigation stat in EQ2.

Want to know secondary stats that actually add "Depth" to the system?

Casting Speed:
Decreases the Speed of Casting.

In-combat Mana Regeneration:
Increases Mana restored.

In-combat TP Restoration:
Increases TP restored.

DPS Mod:
Increases the damage of Autoattacks.

Attack Speed:
Lowers the delay of Autoattacks.

AE Autoattack Chance:
Your autoattack has a chance to strikes multiple enemies in-front of you.

Spiked Armor
Deals damage to the enemy when struck.

Hate Gain
Increases Enmity Generated.

Hate Reduction
Lowers Enmity Generated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

I read that line a little differently. It's oddly worded if they didn't intend to take healer DDing into account for Savage, there'd have been no reason to have the mode right at the start otherwise.

---

Some people like to bang their head against stuff that's not supposed to be clearable immediately.

I'm going to guess at intended item level for clear is average 195 minimum, 200 ideal.

Quote:

---

Edit: as we see -> They indeed balancing DPS around healer DPS because compared to coil even server first players are struggeling very hard...

---

No, it means that they didn't intend for us to clear any of it for a number of weeks but tossed it at us for folks that like to bang their heads against things they shouldn't be able to complete.

When it's intended for i200 gear and you're trying to complete it at i185-190, of *course* it's going to be "very hard".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

That would be a great fix! ...then the game would still need other ideas for secondary stats; there's too little variety in gear as is.

---

There are always certain stats that are better for certain classes than others.

Nothin like being that fire mage that only wants crit, but none of the crit gear was dropping.

Or being the holy paladin that wanted crit but the plate didn't have it so I took the shaman gear.